Is the prejudice on YI starting to lift??

[Diesel]

I've noticed that whenever somebody talks about getting General Yi at 3 and Law or Critt at 11...

The statement always comes up: Yi is not a Center. I don't want him. Blah blah blah..

Interestingly enough. Had we won the 2nd pick overall instead of the 3rd...

Nobody would say the same about Durant.

IS that Hypocrisy?

[Buzzard]

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I've noticed that whenever somebody talks about getting General Yi at 3 and Law or Critt at 11...

The statement always comes up: Yi is not a Center. I don't want him. Blah blah blah..

Interestingly enough. Had we won the 2nd pick overall instead of the 3rd...

Nobody would say the same about Durant.

IS that Hypocrisy?

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I think it has more to do with Durant being a no brainer 1st or 2nd pick. Yi on the other hand is all over the board. At draft express he is slotted to go 10th to the Kings.

Maybe you can find some board out there with Durant picked that low in the draft; but I could not. I am not saying draft express is the do all, tell all for internet draft borads either.

If Yi has the talent; take him. But a lot of people that sort through talent all year long for a living, have some big reservations on Yi. And that is why I think a lot of posters have doubts. This is as important a draft as we have had since the trade for Nique; cannot blame people for being afraid of drafting an unknown from across the pond.

[Diesel]

So you're basing what you believe on Draftexpress?

Where did they have Marvin going in 2005?? Was it ahead of Paul and Deron?

[Buzzard]

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So you're basing what you believe on Draftexpress?

Where did they have Marvin going in 2005?? Was it ahead of Paul and Deron?

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Well I do not remember exactly but the discrepancy between the three was not 7 draft slots. In fact they were all in the top five. Which is pretty damn accurate by anyone standards.

I also said draft express is not the do all tell all. Which you of course failed to quote me on; but I would give them more credence than your daddy Chad Ford . Oh yes I would ...

[Buzzard]

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So you're basing what you believe on Draftexpress?

Where did they have Marvin going in 2005?? Was it ahead of Paul and Deron?

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Just went out and looked. They nailed Marvin and had him going to us. But they did have Paul going before Deron. You see Diesel, their mock is based on a combination of player talent and what they think the team will do.

Yi dropping to the Kings at 10 is not a good sign for a player people on here are hyping as the next Dirk...But workouts are still left and just as Deron moved up on their board two years ago; same can happen for Yi as well.

[Gray Mule]

Hawks need scoring. Apparently this Chinese guy can score.

Hawks need defense. Hawks need height. Hawks need speed.

Hawks need ball handling - Someone who has the ability to

walk and chew gum at the same time.

Hawks need a lot of publicity - The good kind. The Chinese

press will be covering "their" guy a lot this season.

Hawks have, or had, Batman. He has a problem with the

language. He didn't have a lot of press coverage from

his country - Didn't create a lot of publicity.

Am I sold on drafting this player at # 3? Not yet, but

the mind is open to the possibility. Much will depend

on the workouts and what can be seen by the coaches,

scouts and others who know - Not just some hype machine.

The Michael Jordan of this draft? Wasn't M.J. picked #3?

If, and this is only an if, Hawks pass on a P.G. at #3

and take this player or someone else, that means that

there are more P.G.'s left in the pool since we didn't

take one. Stands to reason that, at #11, there is a good

probibility that at least one of these great (?) P.G.'s

will still be available.

THE WORKOUTS MUST GIVE THE ANSWER.

Hawks are still shopping for that new vehicle. Right now

we are at the dealership. We're looking for a sports

car (P.G.) and a nice truck (Inside player, scorer).

A limited number are available and we must wait our

turn to buy. Two are already marked, "Sold" and we

have the next choice. Wow! What a nice feeling.

[thesheedera]

Might have more to do with the fact that Durant played an entire season on national tv, became the first freshman NPOY and carried a team that lost the number 2 pick in last year's draft as well as their starting shooting guard (now helping the Cavs contend for an NBA championship) to a pretty impressive season in front of millions of American college basketball fans.

Had Yi played last season for Texas and done the sae things, I'm sure people would be clamoring to grab him at 1, 2 or 3.

[Diesel]

Mocks are not based on talents of the player...

Mocks are based on:

1st and foremost where the MOCKWRITER think a player will end up.

When it was believed that Shelden was given a promise by BK, Shelden shot up from 9 to 5 on most mocks.

You see the purpose of the Mock is usually as a predictive tool...

By definition, Mock means to Mimic... therefore when you have a mock draft, you have a Mimic of what the real draft will be.

Also notice, when the Hawks won the 3rd pick, MCJ moved from 8th on most mocks to 3... The reason being is that most Mocks believe that the Hawks will take a PG...

FInally...

IF Mocks were about players talents and abilities.. why would they change? If you knew a players potential, talent, and ability, then you would place his name in a position and he would never move... Especially after the draft lottery. However, you will see movement left and right via each rumor.

Therefore, the MOCKS can't really be trusted to tell you anything about a player's ability... A mock just tells you where they think that player will go based on Rumor and expectation. Not skill and talent.

That fact that so many of you lean on these Mocks as if they speak the truth tells me that you really don't watch basketball (college) and you don't understand the innerworkings of a mock.

[Diesel]

I don't think it's that either...

Yao Ming was in China and played games that nobody seen or heard about.

Jayson Williams played every game at Duke before great numbers of TV viewers. I'm not a Duke fan so I can't tell you how his team ended up but I don't think they were bad. Jayson Williams was a STAR.

Ming was consensus #1...

[thesheedera]

Well then you just disproved the idea that prejudice is at work. Yao Ming's Chinese.

So what's the difference between Ming And Yi?

Ming was taller and considered by scouts as a true center while we've all been told that Yi is a forward by the experts who have seen him play and scouted him for years. Yao was simply a more dominant and better known player at the time. If scouting reports on Yi read as the one below about Yao does, then I have no doubt he'd be giving Durant a run for his money at #2.

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Yao Ming

CENTER | (7-5, 296) | CHINA

Notes: It's never been if Yao Ming will be drafted by an NBA team, but rather in what draft he will be considered the overall No. 1 pick. Now, it's now up to NBA teams to weigh this Chinese import against the best America has to offer.

One of the most highly anticipated players ever to join the NBA, Yao has rapidly developed into the best and most dominant player in China. Performed in the 2000 Summer Olympic Games in Australia and showed enormous potential. Follows fellow China National Team members Wang Zhizhi of the Dallas Mavericks and Mengke Bateer of the Denver Nuggets to the NBA. Scouting reports note Yaos agility and quickness for a player of his height. Possesses a soft shooting touch and has shooting range out to 15 feet. Has improved his free throw shooting to above 75 percent.

In the 2001-02 CBA (China Basketball Association) season, Yao led the league in blocked shots (4.8 bpg), and ranked second in scoring (32.4 ppg) and rebounding (19 rpg). Yao was even more dominant in the championship series, where he led the Sharks to a three-games-to-one victory over the Bayi Rockets, earning Shanghais first CBA championship. In that four-game series, he averaged 41.3 points, 21 rebounds and 4.3 blocks per game. In the clinching 123-122 victory, Yao recorded 44 points, 21 rebounds and seven blocked shots. For the playoffs, he averaged 38.9 points, 20.2 rebounds and 3.5 blocked shots in 44 minutes per game.

In the 2001 Asian Basketball Championship for Men, Yao helped the Chinese national team capture the title and an accompanying berth in the 2002 World Championship, slated for Indianapolis, Indiana late this summer. Yao averaged 13.4 points, 10.1 rebounds, and 2.76 block shots in 20 minutes per game.

Yao became the dominant player in the CBA as a 20-year-old during the 2000-2001 CBA season. Averaged 27.1 points, 19.4 rebounds and 5.5 blocked shots per game. In the first game of the CBA Finals against the Bayi Rockets and national team teammate Wang Zhizhi, Yao scored 32 points and grabbed 21 rebounds to spark Shanghai to a 116-105 victory. The win was especially significant because it marked the first-ever playoff game loss for the Rockets in the six years the CBA has been in existence. In the second game of the series, Yao scored 22 points and grabbed 24 rebounds, but Bayi won, 114-109.

In the 1999-2000 season, Yao enjoyed a breakthrough performance, as he became one of the best players in the league at age 19. Led CBA in rebounding (14.6 rpg), blocked shots (5.3 bpg) and dunks (55). He finished sixth in scoring (21.2 ppg) and tied for seventh in steals (2.4 spg). In the 1998-99 season, played just 12 games due to left leg fracture. Ranked second in the league in blocked shots (2.52 bpg) and averaged 20.9 points and 12.9 rebounds per game.

In the 2000 Olympic Games, led China in blocked shots (2.17 bpg), rebounds (6.0 rpg) and field goal percentage (63.9 percent) and was second in scoring (10.5 ppg). In the first game of competition against the USA Basketball Senior National Mens Team, was limited to 16 minutes by foul trouble, but tallied five points, three rebounds, two blocks and two assists in his brief time on the court. In an 82-70 loss to France, scored team-high 14 points and added six rebounds and three blocked shots in 26 minutes. In 82-66 loss to Lithuania, scored a game-high 23 points, grabbed a team-high seven rebounds and added two blocked shots.

Yaos parents are both former members of Chinas national basketball teams. His father is 6-7 and his mother is 6-3. Yao joined the Youth Sports School at age nine and received formal training in basketball for the first time. He was selected to be a member of the Shanghai Youth Team when he turned 14 years old, and was selected to Chinas National Team when he was 18.

Ming, 22, has committed to the draft after the Shanghai Sharks worked out a deal to let him come to America. The Chinese Basketball League is certainly not the NBA, nor will the competition he's facing each game measure up to NBA standards. But Ming is very agile and even at 7-foot-6, he can get out and run the floor like a small forward. In the halfcourt, he doesn't just plod around, either. He has a reliable jump hook, and has shown the ability to pass like a guard within the offense to cutting teammates. His basketball IQ isn't a question, neither is his talent. He also shot nearly 80 percent from the free throw line, which is a bonus for any big man.

Positives: Yao is 7-5 or 7-6 depending on who you believe. The inch, however, doesn't matter because he's tall and he's not a geek. He can score around the basket, almost a lock when he gets the ball within two feet. College players who went against him in Beijing said he can't be stopped when he gets the ball around the basket. He can block shots and is learning how to time his shot blocking better with each game. His ability to alter shots might be even more important.

Negatives: Yao may weight upwards of 290 pounds, but moving him out of the post could be easier for the stronger centers in the NBA. It might take him time to adjust to American basketball and the language barrier could become an issue for teammates and coaches.

Summary: The buzz is too high on Yao for him to drop out of the top two. A team will have to go through too much negotiating to ensure everything is right with Yao playing in the U.S., so don't look for any draft-and-trade deals. Instead, look for him to go within the top two and stay put.

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Now THAT is hypeworthy.

You're trying to equate Yao Ming in 2002 to Yi in 2007 and it doesn't dieselpute at all. These guys are different athleets and different players.

[Diesel]

I have never used Ming as an comparison of anything on the basketball court.

I used Ming to show that he was prolly the least publicized 1 pick in the history of basketball.

You however saw Ming and immediately equated Ming to another Chinese player in an effort to compare skills...

Same old prejudice...

Ming and Yi are nothing alike.

If you want a player to compare Yi to type of gamewise, try Durant or try KG...

[DavidSomerset]

Quote:

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I've noticed that whenever somebody talks about getting General Yi at 3 and Law or Critt at 11...

The statement always comes up: Yi is not a Center. I don't want him. Blah blah blah..

Interestingly enough. Had we won the 2nd pick overall instead of the 3rd...

Nobody would say the same about Durant.

IS that Hypocrisy?

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Durant is one of those rare playmakers you simply cannot pass on.

Yi, is not in Durant's league.

It's like the difference between Kobe and JJ.

[thesheedera]

So you're bringing up Ming in this thread had NOTHING to do with the fact that they're both 7+ foot tall Chinese stars being considered as top draft picks in the NBA draft?

How is what I'm saying prejudiced? I think Ming;s awesome, Asian or not. He WAS hyped, but you're trying to rewrite history saying he wasn't. He was unknown in the sense that most Americans hadn't seen him play, but he was extremely well known in that he had been written about for years as the next big thing in basketball. His hype was lightyears beyond Yi's.

I haven't seen nearly as much about Yi as I remember about Yao. Now the hype's starting up, but it won't have time to reach Yao levels.

I like the idea of drafting Yi at 3rd. I prefer Conley, but not enough that I wouldn't be excited about Yi. I'm not prejudiced against him for being Chinese, I'm ignorant to what he is as a basketball player because he plays in China.

[KB21]

No. It isn't hypocrisy. The fans on here have seen Kevin Durant play and know he has big time talent and potential. I doubt there is a single fan on this website that has seen Yi Jianlian play in anything more than a highlight reel.

The fact is, Yi is an unknown due to the lack of exposure he has over here. I haven't seen him play, and because of that, I'm not going to make some comment saying that he isn't a center or that he is a small forward when I don't really know if that is the case.

I will say this though. Given the fact that Chris Bosh, Dwight Howard, Amare Stoudemire, Al Jefferson, and Pau Gasol all play more at the center position than at the power forward position and given the fact that Yi is 7'1", 246 lbs, I think it is ridiculous to say that he cannot play center in the NBA.

[DavidSomerset]

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No. It isn't hypocrisy. The fans on here have seen Kevin Durant play and know he has big time talent and potential. I doubt there is a single fan on this website that has seen Yi Jianlian play in anything more than a highlight reel.

The fact is, Yi is an unknown due to the lack of exposure he has over here. I haven't seen him play, and because of that, I'm not going to make some comment saying that he isn't a center or that he is a small forward when I don't really know if that is the case.

I will say this though. Given the fact that Chris Bosh, Dwight Howard, Amare Stoudemire, Al Jefferson, and Pau Gasol all play more at the center position than at the power forward position and given the fact that Yi is 7'1", 246 lbs, I think it is ridiculous to say that he cannot play center in the NBA.

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Just because he is that big, it does not come anything close to meaning he can ACTUALLY play center in the NBA.

Every scouting report I've read says that there are doubts he even has enough strength to play PF in the NBA...The guy is a SF in a PF/C body...

You think it's logical to take a guy that there are serious doubts he can physically man the PF position and put him at CENTER????!!!?!?!

Let me also remind you Toni Kukoc was 6'11, 240 and Dirk Nowitzki is 7'0 245...Can either of them play Center?

Heck, Dirk is the biggest p*ssy in the NBA, along with just about every other European or Asian big in the league (Yao is another perfect example of softness), what makes you think Yi will be any different?

[thesheedera]

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immediately equated Ming to another Chinese player in an effort to compare skills...

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And this is absurd, I was showing that they have DIFFERENT skills and therefore are looked at differently by scouts. Yao as a legit center is more highly valued than Yi is.

Oden as a legit center is more highly valued than Durant is.

Oden as a legit center is more highly valued than Yi is.

Durant as a well known college basketball star is more widely accepted as a sure fire NBA prospect than a player who has only played on US tv a handful of times, and has only competed in leagues we're not familiar with.

Yao was the better prospect coming into the draft than Yi is because he was bigger, played a more important position, and domintated his competition more completely than Yi has.

There's no prejudice here, it's a lack of knowledge. NBA front offices and fans don't know enough about Yi to make a fair judgement on his potential, and they/we know infinitely more about Durant after watching him dominate college basketball.

Durant, while unproven on the NBA stage, is much closer to a proven commodity than Yi is, no matter what their race.

[thesheedera]

If you haven't noticed, I don't f-ing appreciate someone throwing claims of prejudice against me that are completely unfounded and uncalled for. You might want to take that back.

[Gray Mule]

Are you saying that we can't have Kobe (Durant) because

he's already spoken for, but we can have JJ (General Yi)

because he's available to us at #3?

Why worry about who's not available (Durant). We must

choose from the players that ARE available.

[KB21]

I doubt any of the scouting reports you read had Chris Bosh playing center when he came out of Georgia Tech. either.

Or how about Tyson Chandler. Coming out of high school, all the scouting reports said he was a 7'1" small forward. He's only the best rebounding center in the NBA right now.

[TexasPete]

Most on this board don't want another forward to add to our current logjam so we are prejudiced against the Chinese.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense...