Is the prejudice on YI starting to lift??

[Guest Walter]

The work outs will help but won't answer all of them. Still, if he is head and shoulders above the rest in work-outs talent-wise, considering his resume already you have to take him.

If he's just a little better in workouts, one can question whether that ability to shine in workouts will carry over into games. The truth is that it might carry over even better in games. Perhaps his basketball IQ, skill set, and athleticism are best in a 3 on 3 or 5 on 5 settingw where he can also make other players better. Perhaps that unstoppable interior turnaround "J" works best when he has multiple threats available. Perhaps...perhaps we can extrapolate whether he will be as good or better than his workouts indicate...

Well, regardless, without a clear workout advantage, one CAN question Yi's ability to translate his game to 5 on 5. I just don't think one can credibly question it if he is head and shoulders above the rest in work-outs, particularly if the work outs are head to head.

WE are in the cat bird seat here. WE are the highest pick of the rest. We can demand every workout we want, how we want. Bring in Wright/Yi/Horford with Conley/Critt/Law all in the same workout for all I care. Also consider bringing them in individually for short workouts.

Mind you, I'm not 100% set against Conley or any other Pg at 3. Let's say a Pg simply dominates and overwhelms the other 2 Pgs in a heads up workout. Then clearly we should consider taking such a Pg at 3 (or question the strength of the Pgs overall). Still, I would be inclined to seek more value for the pick, but...I am 99% against a Pg at 3 of course. We have more needs than just Pg and the way things shape up for us we have to use the 3rd pick to address the center position and/or talent needs, potentially trade from our excess if we don't get a center with the 3rd pick, and get a Pg at 11. It's common sense really. You take what the draft gives you or else you end up with a SW here or a MW there instead of Roy and Deron.

W

[DavidSomerset]

Those two are also both Americans and don't have track records of being complete pussies in the post. (Wang Zhi, Yao Ming).

I mean heck, Yao is a very good C (and let's just go ahead and say Yi is not in Yao's league), but gets pushed around like he's 6'10 200 lbs.

[thesheedera]

I like the idea of drafting Yi, and yet I'm still being called "prejudiced"!

[DavidSomerset]

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Are you saying that we can't have Kobe (Durant) because

he's already spoken for, but we can have JJ (General Yi)

because he's available to us at #3?

Why worry about who's not available (Durant). We must

choose from the players that ARE available.

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I was saying the difference between Durant and Yi is that one player is a no brainer to take if you have the opportunity, while the other player could be passed over to fill other positions with players that have comparable potential.

Yi does not have the potential of Durant...Not even close...Just like JJ does not have the potential of Kobe...not even close, even though JJ is still a good player.

[TexasPete]

Yeah, sheed, I always thought you were prejudiced....LMAO. This place sinks another foot everyday.

BTW, for all those wondering why KB21 is suddenly on the Yi for center bandwagon...

He saw in Sothrons post that his idol may be considering Yi so he is starting to sync up just in case.

Yesterday, he was coming around hard on Conley but I would expect that to diminish in the days ahead.

Just like he hated Shelden and then started to like him when his idol tipped his hand.

Anyway, expect a reversal by KB21 in the coming days. There are 3 sure things in life...death, taxes, and KB21's unwavering support of Billy Knight.

[TheDude]

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I have never used Ming as an comparison of anything on the basketball court.

I used Ming to show that he was prolly the least publicized 1 pick in the history of basketball.

You however saw Ming and immediately equated Ming to another Chinese player in an effort to compare skills...

Same old prejudice...

Ming and Yi are nothing alike.

If you want a player to compare Yi to type of gamewise, try Durant or try KG...

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wait, are you actually trying to ensinuate (mspld) that people don't want Yi because they are prejudiced? you're actually serious about that?

do me a favor diesel and stop throwing serious accusations around just for the argument of it...you trivialize instances where there is actually prejudice...there is not freaking prejudice here in any way....

we don't need a forward and the only reason to get one is IF it was a sure thing. Durant appears to be a sure thing while Yi is an unknown. end of story, end of thread, find another argument on why folks should draft Yi. but please #1 stop reaching for insane reasons people are against drafting Yi, #2 stop trivializing prejudice...

[TheDude]

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I have never used Ming as an comparison of anything on the basketball court.

I used Ming to show that he was prolly the least publicized 1 pick in the history of basketball.

You however saw Ming and immediately equated Ming to another Chinese player in an effort to compare skills...

Same old prejudice...

Ming and Yi are nothing alike.

If you want a player to compare Yi to type of gamewise, try Durant or try KG...

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which is why it's not prejudice...because IF people were actually stereotyping (a complete different meaning of a word but we'll pretend it means the same for arguments sake) and thought that mind and yi were the same, THEY WOULD WANT YI BECAUSE THAT WOULD MEAN HE'S A CENTER.

[Diesel]

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Yao Ming was in China and played games that nobody seen or heard about.

Jayson Williams played every game at Duke before great numbers of TV viewers. I'm not a Duke fan so I can't tell you how his team ended up but I don't think they were bad. Jayson Williams was a STAR.

Ming was consensus #1...

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This is what I have said in this thread and other threads... Each time, you and others want to talk about positional differences between yi and yao. That is not the discussion, never was the discussion, and has nothing to do with the discussion.

In fact, I believe to bring it up is some type of stereotyping. In fact, let me say this... The only reason you compare the two is because they are both from China.

[Diesel]

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Most on this board don't want

another forward to add to our current logjam

so we are prejudiced against the Chinese.

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Is Durant a forward or not??

If we had the second pick... another foward would not be the conversation at all. We'd be talking about how well Durant would fit in...

Deal with your own hypocrisy.

[Diesel]

I think we both see eye the eye on the possibility of getting superstar talent at 3 and our PG at 11.

I'm not saying Yi is locked... Because I would like to trade for Gasol first and foremost. However, I will say that those people who proclaim that Yi shouldn't be taken because he's not a Center are being extra Hypocritical. Because I know if we had the 2nd pick overall, there would be NOBODY suggesting that we should take MCJ... And there would be 100% agreement that we should take ANOTHER SF and get our PG at 11.

[AHF]

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Or how about Tyson Chandler. Coming out of high school, all the scouting reports said he was a 7'1" small forward. He's only the best rebounding center in the NBA right now.

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Every scouting report listed him as a power forward not a small forward. He was a defensive specialist who first played center in the nba about 5 years into his career. I am not sure about you but I don't think we can wait that long to address the center position.

I wouldn't rule out Yi from EVER playing center at all but given that his weaknesses are Chandler's strengths (defense and rebounding) I wouldn't rely on them as comparators. (Note that most of Yi's strengths are also Chandler's weaknesses).

* * * *

Bottomline, I don't mind people talking about Yi as a potential pick because he is big and has a lot of potential but it does annoy me when he is thrown out as the answer to our problems at center during the next few years when he is being abused in the post by guys who couldn't fill out the end of a bench in the NBA.

[AHF]

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I think we both see eye the eye on the possibility of getting superstar talent at 3 and our PG at 11.

I'm not saying Yi is locked... Because I would like to trade for Gasol first and foremost. However, I will say that those people who proclaim that Yi shouldn't be taken because he's not a Center are being extra Hypocritical. Because I know if we had the 2nd pick overall, there would be NOBODY suggesting that we should take MCJ... And there would be 100% agreement that we should take ANOTHER SF and get our PG at 11.

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Durant is viewed as a near guaranteed franchise changing talent. It is not hypocritical to treat Yi differently from Durant when the scouting reports being cited by Yi's advocates on this board list him as being a significant risk and when there are no such doubts about Durant.

The difference is not race or position, it is the very high upside of Durant combined with a negligable floor for him. People who would be content to take Durant (myself among them) would tell you that we would have to move at least one forward from our team after taking Durant but that it would be worth it because his talent is so extraordinary.

If those people felt Yi's talent was the equal of Durant's it would be hypocritical to advocate taking Durant but to reject the idea of taking Yi. You could even make the argument that race was the real reason for the difference. However, those posters don't see Durant and Yi as being equals in terms of their talent or their prospects in the league. Durant has the clear edge. For that reason, there is nothing hypocritical about saying that the Hawks should not pass on a guaranteed franchise talent at forward but that they should not gamble on a high risk/reward forward when we already have an abundance of forwards.

[Diesel]

For the record, I never said he was our "answer" for Center. I think the whole discussion about "answer" for Center is a red herring anyway. We won't find that "answer" in the draft nor will we find it in trade. (very unlikely). I subscribe that we play a 3 forward frontcourt when Zaza is not playing and that becomes our answer.

If Ben Wallace can play Center, why not Shelden. Especially with a 7'1" player beside him.

I think we need to realize that most of the league has left the formalism of positions alone and it has become a question of skillsets. Look at Phoenix.

What i would say about Yi is that it looks like he has a tremendous potential and skillset. You won't find another 7 footer this side of KG as fast, agile, and athletic as Yi. why are you trying to label him as a Center? It doesn't matter what position he plays. We get him and appreciate the talents he brings.

[thesheedera]

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In fact, I believe to bring it up is some type of stereotyping. In fact, let me say this... The only reason you compare the two is because they are both from China.

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YOU'RE THE ONE WHO BROUGHT YAO UP!!!!

I compared Yi to Yao because you introduced Yao into the thread. YOU COMPARED THEIR SITUATIONS, I EXPLAINED WHY I THOUGHT THEIR SITUATIONS ARE DIFFERENT, AND IT IS BECAUSE WHAT I READ ABOUT YAO THEN SAID "CENTER", AND WHAT I READ ABOUT YI NOW SAYS "PROBABLY NOT A CENTER."

How am I prejudiced or steroetyping when I'm only responding to you bringing Yao into the discussion?

You're stretching even beyond your own bounds with this.

Scouts say he's a forward, random internet poster reads scouting report, random internet poster repeats that scout thinks he's a forward, random internet poster is therefore some kind fo a racist?

When have I ever stated that he's not a center? I've only said that from what I understand, he isn;t a center. I;ve never seen him play live!!!

And furthermore, I wouldn't mind us getting him whether he plays center or not,a nd I wouldn;t mind us trading Marvin to make room from him and get back a PG or C if it was necessary.

But I guess somehow I'm prejudiced against the Chinese.

[coachx]

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I think we both see eye the eye on the possibility of getting superstar talent at 3 and our PG at 11.

I'm not saying Yi is locked... Because I would like to trade for Gasol first and foremost. However, I will say that those people who proclaim that Yi shouldn't be taken because he's not a Center are being extra Hypocritical. Because I know if we had the 2nd pick overall, there would be NOBODY suggesting that we should take MCJ... And there would be 100% agreement that we should take ANOTHER SF and get our PG at 11.

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Good points all around.

The differnce in Durant and Yi is simple:

1.Everyone has seen Durant dominate games

2. No one has seen Yi play a game.

We have read how Wang Zhi gave him all he can handle in the CBA Championships. Yi's high-lights are impressive, he does seem very atheltic for some one 7 feet tall.

If Zi fairs well in workouts vs. Noah, Hoford and Brewer that will change peoples minds.

I really want to see him vs. both big strong guys and smaller/quicker guys.

The reason:

Dirk plays better vs. big guys b/c he can utilize his speed and atheleticsm to put the ball on the floor.

Dirk stuggles vs. the smaller, quicker Bruce Bowens of the world b/c he can't take advanage of 6'7'' guys in the post the way a 7 footer should. Hre is so stubborn he attempts totake them off the dribble to.

I want to SEE Yi compared to what Dirk can do. I have a feeling Yi will be the opposite. Stuggling vs. bigger players but being better vs. smaller players simply b/c he is not used to seeing many guys his own size with any skills in China.

The key word is SEE / not read.

Getting Yi also means one of: Smith, Marvin, or Chills is gone to give everyone enough playing time. That can be a good thing.

One thing is for sure, with all the possibilities it makes the Hawks off-season more fun to follow then there actual season. This ishte off season that will determine the Fat of The Franchise.

[AHF]

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In fact, I believe to bring it up is some type of stereotyping. In fact, let me say this... The only reason you compare the two is because they are both from China.

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YOU'RE THE ONE WHO BROUGHT YAO UP!!!!

I compared Yi to Yao because you introduced Yao into the thread. YOU COMPARED THEIR SITUATIONS, I EXPLAINED WHY I THOUGHT THEIR SITUATIONS ARE DIFFERENT, AND IT IS BECAUSE WHAT I READ ABOUT YAO THEN SAID "CENTER", AND WHAT I READ ABOUT YI NOW SAYS "PROBABLY NOT A CENTER."

How am I prejudiced or steroetyping when I'm only responding to you bringing Yao into the discussion?

You're stretching even beyond your own bounds with this.

Scouts say he's a forward, random internet poster reads scouting report, random internet poster repeats that scout thinks he's a forward, random internet poster is therefore some kind fo a racist?

When have I ever stated that he's not a center? I've only said that from what I understand, he isn;t a center. I;ve never seen him play live!!!

And furthermore, I wouldn't mind us getting him whether he plays center or not,a nd I wouldn;t mind us trading Marvin to make room from him and get back a PG or C if it was necessary.

But I guess somehow I'm prejudiced against the Chinese.

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I think you owe an apology on the racism accusations here Diesel. Those are serious allegations to throw around and there is no absolutely base for them with respect to thesheedera as far as I can see.

[Diesel]

The prejudice comes in when you look at Yi and say he doesn't have a high upside. He's 7'1 245... and I'm sure he's faster than Durant. He has more experience than Durant. The difference I would say is that Durant was on TV week by week, Yi was not. Durant played in college. Yi did not. But had Yi played college ball, I suspect he would have been a dominant big.

This is not to take away from Durant, but what exactly makes Durant have more potential than a 7'1 245lber with good fundamentals and is fast as a Sf??

[AHF]

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The prejudice comes in when you look at Yi and say he doesn't have a high upside.

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thesheedera hasn't said that. In fact, I think he has acknowledged Yi's upside.

That is why you owe him an apology.

That said, you could still conclude that Yi doesn't have a high upside and not be racist.

[TexasPete]

He not only insulted Sheed, he insults all who come here and offer rational opinions on the subject. Now, we can't just say we don't need another forward we have to be insulted with serious charges of prejudice.

Because he cannot win the real debate he resorts to the worst kind of personal attack.

I have now permanently put Diesel on ignore so that I don't have to engage with someone of that mentality. He positions rarely make sense anyway. Legend in his own mind.

[thesheedera]

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The prejudice comes in when you look at Yi and say he doesn't have a high upside.

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When did I do that? You're calling me prejudiced because I've said I understand that he's a forward. You also think he's a forward.

I've said I like him as the #3 pick, but not as much as Conley. You've said you want him as the #3 pick.

I've said I like Durant more because I've seen him play.

Where have I said anything derogatory about Yi, anywhere at all??

Admit you were wrong and you're making random accusations to prove a point that I'm not even arguing against. I don't really need a apology, just admit you were wrong.