Is the prejudice on YI starting to lift??

[Diesel]

I think a lot was overblown with the Wang Zhi Zhi vs. Yi matchup.

First and foremost, Wang has been Yi's teammate for the last 3 years. Teammate. If there's anybody who knows Yi's weakness, it's Wang. Secondly Wang does have a strength advantage mainly because he's older.

But check this out.

I remember when Shaq first got into the league. He would hate to play against the Clipps. The Clipps had this center #53 Stanley Roberts. This guy would come out and dominate poor Shaq. People wondered why could Shaq dominate the whole league guys like David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, and when he played #53 he get his teeth kicked in.. It was because #53 played with Shaq at LSU. Taught Shaq a lot. Knew all of Shaq's weaknesses. As Shaq got older, he dominated even #53, but for young players, it's not unusual to see them falter against an older player especially when that older player knows everything about them.

[Diesel]

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I think you owe an apology on the

racism accusations

here Diesel.

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Check your legal dictionary.

I didn't say anybody was a racist. I said Prejudice. I said Hypocrisy. I said stereotype.. but I didn't say racist.

When I talk about prejudice, I'm talking about preconcieved opinions that disregaurd the facts of the matter.

So when I said that thesheedera was stereotyping Yi, he was. Yi is a chinese basketball player, so he must be immediately compared to Yao... That's stereotyping.

When I said that some of the board were being prejudice, they were. That had come to a conclusion that Yi was Soft and a Sf without one stitch of justification. Just a stereotype that he's not American so he must be soft.

[Diesel]

You say I brought up Yao.

But you and I were talking about EXPOSURE. NOT Position. You even said that Durant played on TV every week. I said Yao didn't have any games televised, no youtube, and he was consensus #1.

It was then you who started some comparison between Yao and Yi's position. The positions are really irrelevant in the context of exposure. It is noted and has been well noted that 7'6" Yao was a Center and 7'1" Yi is not. How is that relevant to the amount of exposure that Yao didn't get?

[exodus]

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I think you owe an apology on the

racism accusations

here Diesel.

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Check your legal dictionary.

I didn't say anybody was a racist. I said Prejudice. I said Hypocrisy. I said stereotype.. but I didn't say racist.

When I talk about prejudice, I'm talking about preconcieved opinions that disregaurd the facts of the matter.

So when I said that thesheedera was stereotyping Yi, he was. Yi is a chinese basketball player, so he must be immediately compared to Yao ... That's stereotyping.

When I said that some of the board were being prejudice, they were. That had come to a conclusion that Yi was Soft and a Sf without one stitch of justification. Just a stereotype that he's not American so he must be soft.

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The first mention of Yao was by Diesel in post 221189...

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I don't think it's that either...

Yao Ming was in China and played games that nobody seen or heard about.

Jayson Williams played every game at Duke before great numbers of TV viewers. I'm not a Duke fan so I can't tell you how his team ended up but I don't think they were bad. Jayson Williams was a STAR.

Ming was consensus #1...

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yet he claims sheed is the one who is prejudiced. So why did you bring Yao name into the thread Diesel? Looks to me like you are the one stereotyping.

And as for this nonsense

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When I said that some of the board were being prejudice, they were. That had come to a conclusion that Yi was Soft and a Sf without one stitch of justification

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Every scouting report about Yi says he can't defend in the post and is basically a tweener.

[jerrywest]

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If Zi fairs well in workouts vs. Noah, Hoford and Brewer that will change peoples minds.

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Yi worked out with Noah and Noah was in awe of the guy. Ford said that Yi is just as quick as Noah, but much better shooter, leaper, dribbler and finisher. He is fundamentally sound.

[oiatlhawksfan]

Sounds like a big-time player to me. If he was in college, people wouldn't of be so hard on this guy.

[TexasPete]

No, oi, if he wasn't a FORWARD people wouldn't be so hard on the guy.

Why dont you get that we cant use another forward?

[oiatlhawksfan]

We don't exactly have a pure power foward, we could use one to match-up well against other teams.

There you go again, If it's not Conley it's trash for you. huh?

[mrhonline]

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We don't exactly have a pure power foward

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And Yi would leave the Hawks in need yet again for a "pure" power forward.

[Diesel]

Ex.

I am always tickled by your posts. You have the same flaw in talking about basketball as you do in talking about basketball games and probably. You miss the details and the context.

You quote me.. and the only thing you noticed what that I mentioned Yao.

My statement could have been just as applicable to Nick Fazeskas or Morris Almond or Al Thornton as it was to Yi... Because THE CONTEXT was that I used Yao was that he was a consensus #1 guy without being on TV every week as Durant was.

However, because I mentioned Yao... Immediately, swarms of people start to make comparisons about Yao being a C and Yi being a Forward. That has nothing to do with the conversation. We're talking about Exposure and lack of exposure. My point is that if you have talent, the amount of exposure that you get shouldn't determine where you are drafted...

Somehow, the point gets swallowed up in a Yao vs. Yi comparison when really it has nothing to do with Yao vs. Yi unless you're talking about exposure.

[Diesel]

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you could still conclude that Yi doesn't have a high upside

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And what would be your basis?

When you come up with a conclusion that is baseless, isn't that prejudice?

[exodus]

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That has nothing to do with the conversation.

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Yes it does because we are talking about the DRAFT. In the draft POSITION MATTERS. A true center will ALWAYS get picked way ahead of a tweener forward of similar ability.

Yi lack of a defined position hurts him more than his lack of exposure because the scouts have seen him play plenty of times even though we haven't.

[AHF]

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This is not to take away from Durant, but what exactly makes Durant have more potential than a 7'1 245lber with good fundamentals and is fast as a Sf??

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You are taking away from Durant because Durant has been a unique talent.

He is the only freshman CPOY in NCAA history. He has been so good that some people who are involved with basketball for a living wonder whether he should be taken in front of Greg Oden.

Athletic 7 footers have a mixed history in the lottery. I am not arguing Yi = Skita but you just described Yi as a 7 footer "with good fundamentals and is fast as a SF". That description perfectly fits both Skita and Yi. Another 7 footer was described as "can run the floor and jump like few others his size" and having great fundamentals was Darko Milicic. That doesn't mean Yi follows their footsteps it simply means that the profile you described has mixed baggage.

Freshman CPOY > 7 footer with good fundamentals who runs like a deer as far as credentials go.

[Diesel]

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No, oi, if he wasn't a FORWARD people wouldn't be so hard on the guy.

Why dont you get that we cant use another forward?

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If Seattle takes Yi... to help their Asian Population because Stern talks them into staying in Seattle..

And Durant falls into our laps...

Could we still not use another forward????

Would people be so hard on Durant??

Oh... The hypocrisy.

[AHF]

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I think you owe an apology on the

racism accusations

here Diesel.

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Check your legal dictionary.

I didn't say anybody was a racist. I said Prejudice. I said Hypocrisy. I said stereotype.. but I didn't say racist.

When I talk about prejudice, I'm talking about preconcieved opinions that disregaurd the facts of the matter.

So when I said that thesheedera was stereotyping Yi, he was. Yi is a chinese basketball player, so he must be immediately compared to Yao... That's stereotyping.

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Racism

"Definition:

1. based on racism: based on prejudices and stereotypes related to race "

Dictionary Defining Racism As Prejudice Based On Race

Where are you going with this?

Saying he was prejudiced and stereotyping Yi based on his race is accusing him of being a racist according to many dictionary definitions.

Still think you owe an apology on this one - especially since you can't show he even did what you accused him of doing.

[AHF]

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you could still conclude that Yi doesn't have a high upside

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And what would be your basis?

When you come up with a conclusion that is baseless, isn't that prejudice?

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You left out the part of my sentence that said you could sitll conclude he doesn't have high upside based on race.

I think he does have high upside. I think he is a high risk/high reward guy.

I am just saying that people could conclude that based on reasons other than race - even if I don't necessarily agree with them. For example, you could reach the conclusion that he lacks high upside since every scout says he has problems defensively and some have said he has problems with intensity.

I can remember posters on here who said Marvin didn't have high upside since he lacked intensity. A poster could reach the same conclusion about Yi based on those reports and not his race.

I didn't reach that conclusion about Marvin and haven't reached that conclusion about Yi.

I am saying that someone with a negative view of Yi does not necessarily translate into someone who is stereotyping him based on race.

[Guest Walter]

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No, oi, if he wasn't a FORWARD people wouldn't be so hard on the guy.

Why dont you get that we cant use another forward?

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[thesheedera]

If you actually read other people's posts without trying to create tension with them and looking for things to fight about, then maybe you would understand.

You brought up Yao as a comparison of how exposed international players are coming into the draft.

My point was that because of Yao's position (as well as height and his dominating resume, both more impressive than Yi's) he was a more sought after prospect, therefore more interest from teams and scouts, therefore a lot more exposure to NBA fans following draft prospects.

Positions are relevant when discussing who is more exposed. Oden's more exposed tahn Durant because he's always been a center, and that's the trump card when it comes to hype. Either you're the next Jordan, or the next big center prospect.

You brought up Yao, claiming he was an unknown. That is not true, he was well known to fans, but fans had never actually seen him play. But the hype surrounding him was enormous. He was taken over Jay Williams because of that hype, and the fact that he filled the hardest positionj to fill in the NBA.

Position is relavant when discussing Yao.

Position is relevant when discussing Yi as compared to Oden.

Position is not relevant when discussing Yi compared to Durant. I prefer Durant, because I've watched him play dozens of times and know what I think I can expect from him. I've never seen Yi play. If I could, I would, but I don;t have that option with my cable package.

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But you and I were talking about EXPOSURE. NOT Position. You even said that Durant played on TV every week. I said Yao didn't have any games televised, no youtube, and he was consensus #1.

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Exposure and position can't be that easily separated, especially whn the amount of exposure you generate is so often tied directly to what position you play.

I don't call Yi a forward because of some kind of prejudice regarding Chinese basketball players. The only Chinese players I'm familiar with are centers anyway.

Just admit that you were wrong and that I'm not prejudiced against or towards Chinese athletes in some form or fashion, otherwise this thread may never go away. It will always be a testament to your obnoxiousness.

[Diesel]

I think Carmello Anthony was the first or second Rookie CPOY.. and it may have even been Isiah Thomas...

Anyway..

I don't doubt anything else of what you say.

What I say is this: Yi didn't play in college.

Everything you have built up about Durant is built up on a house of EXPOSURE. He has had a lot of exposure. Since he was at Oak Hill.

Yi has not had any exposure except his play against team USA where the players for team USA recognized Yi's game specifically...

so to make a statement that Yi has no upside to me seems like you are rushing to a conclusion without facts or basis. In my eyes, that's prejudice.

[TexasPete]

AHF, my guess is that your logical approach to this situation is going well over his head.

Logic does not compute with him. He doesn't understand that Durant is one of those major talents that don't come along very often and you draft regardless of position.

I think he belies Yi is somehow in that class even though he has never even seen him lace'em up.

The Yi supporters baffle me because they haven't even watched him play one game. LMAO. How do they get by with wanting a guy they don't know?

Diesel also doesn't understand that when you start throwing prejudice accusations around it is serious to some people. I guess some issues are just to deep for him to grasp.