Where are the CHANTS... DIESEL WAS RIGHT!

[Diesel]

92-77 Hornets over Hawks....

Just like I said, our streak was because we were playing sub .500 teams at HOME. Now, I know what some of you will claim... "well N.O. is better than us... how can you expect us to beat them without Big Dog?"

Quit Crying.

We were winning the season series 2-1 going into last night's game. Not to mention 2 preseason wins.

Hawks 89 N.O. 82 in Atlanta. Grob 24 points.

N.O. 106 Hawks 94 in N.O. Grob 15 points

Hawks 87, N.O. 80 in Atlanta Grob=DNP

Therefore, being that we are so much better without GRob, you would have expected us to be in the game? [censored] it was almost competitive for the first half... Then N.O. figured out that we didn't have enough scorers.

What did Ira present? A Ty Corbinish 5 points in 33 minutes? Come on man. Grob averaged 20 points against this team.

But I know none of you snot slingers will dare say... Diesel was right. I know you. You will come up with excuse after excuse as to why we lost. [censored], they beat us with their bench. We made Tractor look like a star. The fact is that it wasn't a home game. So we couldn't look good without Grob. And that's how it would be without another scorer. Teams would adjust to our SAR game and would shut us down in the 2nd half of games.

Tonight we needed Grob or some scorer. To say that having Ira out there with his BIG 5 is a good Joke.

[Guest]

And what was Robinson going to do about the

turnover problem?I guess we'd be more settled

down with his great ball handling and timely NBA

skills(yeah what skills?)

We lost by 12 with Robinson....and we had

one win againest them without Robinson.Doesn't

prove you're point all that much does it?

In fact,the game that Robinson played is the only

one the Hawks gave up 100 points in...HMMMM

"We made Tractor look like a star."

And you're hero Robinson would have done something

about this?lol Yeah he'd stop him!

"Teams would adjust to our SAR game and would shut us down in the 2nd half of games"

That's more of SAR's inability to produce when it

actually counts.Besides,he was passing up shots

that he should be taking like Stinger was saying

last night.

"

Tonight we needed Grob or some scorer. To say that having Ira out there with his BIG 5 is a good Joke."

The Hawks need a star with real NBA skills..Glen Robinson

doesn't fit that.A jumper is all he has and it's just

mediocre now and he has to take increased shots to

get his numbers.He was on decline last year and the

game he does have is outdated.

[dj_me]

It doesn't happen all to often, but I completely disagree with you, Diesel. I just can't believe that we ended last year on a pretty good streak, then Dog comes in and so destroys our chemistry. He IS NOT right for this team. He doesn't fit our play, and even with him out there tonight, I believe we still would have lost. He is not the answer to our problems. If anything, he is another problem to add to our stockpile. If the team does one thing this offseason (other than being bought), they need to find a way to get rid of Dog while retaining Terry and Glover.

[Guest]

Terry shouldn't be kept for anything over 3 million

because he is the teams biggest problem.Terry's

job is too lead the offense...But guess what,the

Hawks are one of the worst turnover teams in

the league and it looks as if they have one of

the smallest playbooks in the league.

Do the Hawks ever run anything more than a

couple of crappy pick n roll?The gameplan they

have is so easy to shutdown.

More than lacking scorers the Hawks have a

problem with they're system....THEY DON'T

HAVE ONE.

[chillzatl]

I know you'll never miss the chance to crow that you were right about something, no matter how miniscule. But what exactly where you right about?

The only thing that last nights game proved is that we still aren't a good road team, with or without Robinson. Anyone who said Ira is the "answer" at SF for us is crazy. But as long as we have JT running our team, he's a better option than Robinson. Because JT doesn't have the vision to feed two primetime scorers and keep everything else going too and it's a liability to have Grob and Shareef on the floor together.

[Guest]

Chillz is right.....We've had some bad teams the last

few years, but this was the worst out of all of them

to watch.

The Hawks are stuck with these guys.Some hick from

Texas isn't going to get the Hawks out of this hole.That's

a problem.

The reason the Hawks playbook is so thin because that

is all Terry can understand...And he still can't do things

the right way with a simple playbook.

[Diesel]

Turnovers because they know that we're trying to go into to Reef.

Secondly, Dickau showed better poise than our third year PG last night.

I'm saying that Grob would have opened up the floor some simply because he can score.

[Guest]

The turnovers are because of a predictable offense

because JT can't run plays.

Here is why the Hawks do

1)Throw the ball into Shareef and see what happens

2)Run a pick n roll for Theo Ratliff

3)Come down court and fling the ball to Glover/GR

and hope they make the shot

There might be 1 or two I am forgetting.....

"

Secondly, Dickau showed better poise than our third year PG last night."

And seeing how scared Dan looks on defense that

is bad.Dan looks as if he just knows his man is

going to blow right by him.

"

I'm saying that Grob would have opened up the floor some simply because he can score. "

That would depend on if he was shooting 9-12 or

3-15

[Diesel]

Let me tell you where I'm coming from...

1. We knew what we were getting when we picked up Big Dog. A player who can score with a scorers mentality.

2. The Chemistry problem can be attributed to these things.

a. Lon's non coaching. He pegged Big Dog as Toni.

b. No more Toni, DJ. With Toni on the floor, you had a player who could hide JT's inadequecies at PG.

c. Grob and Theo added to the mix. The lack of Nazr kinda hurt the team from one perspective. Nazr could score. Theo took some time getting his game together. He can score but not the same way that Nazr could. Nazr kinda balanced the post for SAR. Theo doesn't. He can take his game outside a bit like a PF. Theo is the last person in the world that would postup.

My point is that with Good coaching and the right personnell SAR/Grob could work. However the problems we had were these...

1. Only ONE Shooter. JT was the only person who could hit the long ball. That means that we could rarely spread the floor enough to get a good halfcourt set. Glover is good people. However, Glover can't shoot the long ball consistently or rather he didn't do it until these last few games.

2. JT is not a Very good PG. He's a great player. If he was 6'6 he'd be a great SG. However, he's 6'1 and he's pigeoned into the PG position. However SIZE does not make the PG. Just because he's 6'1 doesn't mean that he can run an offense. Every coach we have ever had has had to simplify his offense to help JT. That tells me that Unlike Doc Rivers or even Spud, JT does not have basketball smarts. He's more like a streetball player and that's what we get from him all season. You can count how many times he was a playmaker and ran plays based on what he saw in the defense.

3. Grob has a Scorers mentality, SAR does not. This is a problem simply because SAR has to be the first option. Period. SAR is probably the most gifted PF (offensively) in the E. Many of the stronger west C PFs can't stop him. Look at his games vs. Duncan. Yet, he doesn't have the mentality of give me the ball every time. That's what we need. The Dominique attitude of "I'm gonna take this sucka All night". SAR doesn't have that mentality. Big Dog Does. However, the offense can't run successfully through Big dog. He doesn't pass enough. A good coach and a Good PG could regulate this. However, JT/LOn didn't. So first 4 games, Grob is averaging 30 ppg and we look good. But We forgot that Grob was brought in to take the pressure off of SAR. Both can be allstars like Pierce/Walker... However, SAR must be the LEAD DOG.

4. Theo is the only defensive person. I told you for the last 2 years, that Theo would not make much of a difference. Not when he's the only defensive piece. IN Philly he had Ty Hill, Matt Gieger, McKie, IVerson, and Snow. That's a defensive team. Here we put him with JT, SAR, and Big dog. NO Defense. In Fact, offenses tried to bring the game to Theo all year long. That's because they knew that they could get him in foul trouble because he had no help. Plus, bot Theo and SAR are Undersized. While Walter may think that means nothing, that means a whole lot. For one it means we can be overpowered in the post and teams did that. This years team gave up 97.6 ppg. Last years team gave the same defensive output with Hanno and Nazr at the C. Not much difference.

5. Coaching and Midseason Coaching Change. Lon was all wrong for this team. He sucked. He never defined roles. He didnt design plays well. He couldn't reach his players and near the end he had lost them all. Stotts is better in that at least he has started building structure. However, Midseason changes really don't help a lot.

Bottom line is that we have many problems. It can't just be pinned to Grob. secondly, we need to be honest and realize what we have in Grob and what his role on this team is and stop trying to blame him for everything. His role is secondary Scorer to SAR. We didn't bring him here hoping that he would solidify our defense. We didn't bring him here hoping that he would run our offense.

I like looking at the past, so check this out:

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....amp;o=&vc=1

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....amp;o=&vc=1

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat....amp;o=&vc=1

Please examine the experts take, then look at My view in that last post. I outlined everything exactly as they were. I said Big Dog was unmoveable. I said he was consistent with a midrange game. I said he had a scorers mentality. Blah blah blah. In other words, we have to be realistic about what we got.

[JTFan31]

Ok First off, this is JT's first official play the PG spot on the NBA, he adjusted to Kruger then he had to adjust to a new coach with new plays and new schemes not easy to do. Secondly Dickau did play good and you say he showed more poise than JT, IMO he didnt but say he did.......is about time Dickau shows something eh !!

No one said Ira is the answer for us at the 3, all we said that Ira is a keeper and he is a great compliment to this team.....we all know Big Dog is not right for this team and yes teams do double team Reef in the 2nd half when Big Dog is not in the game, but not all teams are successful with it and plus if we trade Big Dog in the offseason I'm sure we can get back a quality player for him.

But I do think Dion is a keeper at the 2, his shot has improved tremendously and his defense is very solid, but what I like most is his strength and his rebounding skills for a 2 guard. If DJ comes back healthy and ready to play with his addes weight, I like to see him at the 3, he has great wing span and he is 6'9 with good shotblocking skills, good 3 pt shooter and I'm sure he will have a great offseason if everything goes well.

[cynic]

We cannot draw a conclusion from one game. Hawks played terribly last night.

We can't draw a conclusion from the 12 games without Big Dog, either, BUT, it certainly appears that the team is more active, plays better defense, and passes more efficiently without HOG on the floor.

Are we better without him? According to those attributes listed above, yes. Do we need his scoring? Yes, but not at such a great cost to our team chemistry.

[Diesel]

Again, my point was that we can't take games against sub .500 teams at home and say that we can make the conclusion that we don't need Big Dog. But I didn't hear you saying that we can't draw these conclusions yesterday. Even still you try to suggest that there is something that we can learn from playing Sub .500 teams at Home?

IF you want to use those numbers without big Dog look at them as a WHOLE.

The Losses that we had were all on the road. They were all because we went through Scoring Droughts.

Mainly because without that third Scorer, teams know how to double down on Reef.

I'm not saying that Grob is the answer to our problems.

What I am saying is that Grob is not THE Problem.

And for the fools who suggested that Ira is a good enough replacement... Last night I heard him say... "I got five on it" in our 77 point effort.

[jjjohns3]

Diesel & Hotlanta must be the same person,or maybe family. Cause I smell sh*t every time they both talk.Probably been eatin' outta eachother's buttcrack. Diesel used to post very informative post, now he's just always talkin' garbage.

~Peace

[Guest]

What do you ever contribute?

The problem is there are alot of people here that

don't have a clue about the game of basketball.When

they watch JT and actually call him a REAL PG it shows

lack of knowledge.

It's funny that Diesel and I are the correct ones most

of the time and you guys always seem to be off...Yet,

you post stuff like you just did.

I bet Jerry West saw the failure and that is why he didn't

want to come....Can't say that I blame him.I'd choose

Memphis too because they have more youthful and better

team.

It's always the dumbF$cks hating on the posters that

deliver the truth without rosey colored glasses like you're

Jason Terry.."I want to stay in Atlanta and have a shot

at a championship one day"that guy is a complete moron.

[Diesel]

Just because you disagree with my point doesn't mean that you need to try to insult me to make yours. That's Childish.

Are you a child??

My point is a very logical conclusion....

I made it yesterday amongst many people talking about Glover and Ira as the future of Hawks Basketball??

My point which was proven true is that this team (without Grob) can't win on the road against better than .500 opponents. Moreover, this team can't win against Good teams... I'm not talking about spastic teams like Orlando and NJ but against teams that are 50 game winners.

Bottom line, it's the moron who believes that Ira and Glover are the future.

What about Grob?

Well, Grob played when we beat Philly, Sactown, and San Antonio. I'm not saying that he is our answer.... I'm saying that he's not our problem. Trade JT for Miller and bring in a Shooter like Persons and I guarantee that this same team with Grob playing would win 50 to 55 games.

[chillzatl]

Trade JT for Miller and bring in a Shooter like Persons and I guarantee that this same team with Grob playing would win 50 to 55 games.

--------------------

I agree completely. But I can also draw up similar trade scenarios for Grob in which we keep JT and feel comfortable predicting similar results.

THe bottom line is that we have several problems. You can't point the finger at any one person. As I said earlier, this team is built around players who only contribute on one side of the court. It's hard to be successful like that.

[Diesel]

However, in the many trades of Grob you can draw up, you still would have to make provisions for JT. i.e. you'd either have to bring in a second gaurd or bring in a Point forward like Odom or Pippen or bring in a Big OG who can handle the offense like Barry or Penny. The fact of the matter is this. If you have to do all that, then Grob is truly not the problem or atleast not the problem in total. For instance. If you were lucky as [censored] and Phoenix gave us Matrix for Grob straight up... We would still have to look for other players to play in the backcourt with Terry because truthfully, Terry would not be able to run that offense. If he can't run an offense with 2 scorers, how would he get a guy like Matrix involved in the offense. If you watch Phoenix they are play derived. Marbury may look like all he does is break down the defense and find scorers, however, most of the times they run plays. JT is not play oriented. The plays drawn up that JT knows are very simplistic. He's a sandlot PG out there. That's why teams can easily shut us down.

So, if we were to get a guy like Miller... I think we could approach 50, but our other problem is that we don't have enough three ball shooters. I would love to trade for Persons or to reaquire JJ. The point being that we can win easily and look fluid with a real PG. Just Changing Sfs won't immediately make us winners or fluid.... Not until we do something to compliment JT and run our offense. That suggests that GRob is not the total problem.

[DJ_Money]

You rave on the guy all day long, but I've yet to see you get his name correct.

Person is a great shooter, but I don't think he is the answer at SG. He's a capable ballhandler, but he never gets to the FT line, despite his high FT%. Doesn't attack the glass, poor A/TO ratio. Has height, but I worry about playing a guy under 200 pounds at the SG postion. He gets punished by bigger guards.