Forget Shelden, give Soloman Jones a real chance!

[Diesel]

Actually 11-02-07 is called a season and it doesn't seal anybody's fate... BUT... It's the day when the games are viewable and WILL COUNT!

Your flaccidity is sickening.

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

Diesel, be honest with yourself, Shelden does not look good out there.

---

I think you have to look at the whole picture. I can find you two or three games... hell, half a season of games where Smoove did not look good. I think what you have to seeis that Shelden hasn't not looked good "out there" all the time. Hell, he was player of the month last April. That alone says that he can do better than what we're seeing right now.

Therefore, I disagree with you that there are not skillset being wasted. They are. I just think like every player, a chance to show those skills have to be given.

Now, for Thesheedera.. You can't argue that Marvin has not had his time to show. He played damn near 35 mpg last season. He will probably get as much playing time this season. Yet you all want to piss and moan on Shelden and he's playing 14 and 17 minutes per game? First off if his complimentary 14 and 17 mpg is making that much of an effect on our team, I hope we trade him and watch him blow up somewhere else. However, the problems that we have will still remain!

[HawksFan87]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Diesel, be honest with yourself, Shelden does not look good out there.

---

I think you have to look at the whole picture. I can find you two or three games... hell, half a season of games where Smoove did not look good. I think what you have to seeis that Shelden hasn't not looked good "out there" all the time. Hell, he was player of the month last April. That alone says that he can do better than what we're seeing right now.

Therefore, I disagree with you that there are not skillset being wasted. They are. I just think like every player, a chance to show those skills have to be given.

Now, for Thesheedera.. You can't argue that Marvin has not had his time to show. He played damn near 35 mpg last season. He will probably get as much playing time this season. Yet you all want to piss and moan on Shelden and he's playing 14 and 17 minutes per game? First off if his complimentary 14 and 17 mpg is making that much of an effect on our team, I hope we trade him and watch him blow up somewhere else. However, the problems that we have will still remain!

---

Diesel you are a funny guy.....

[Diesel]

You're just saying that because I mentioned Smoove. Had I said JJ, you would not have typed a word.... Admit it!

[HawksFan87]

Quote:

---

You're just saying that because I mentioned Smoove. Had I said JJ, you would not have typed a word.... Admit it!

---

No i'm just saying that because you have no idea what you are talking about You rag on Marvin and Smoove all the time... When they prove you wrong, you will not have anything to say.....

[atlien]

Quote:

---

I think you have to look at the whole picture. I can find you two or three games... hell, half a season of games where Smoove did not look good. I think what you have to seeis that Shelden hasn't not looked good "out there" all the time. Hell, he was player of the month last April. That alone says that he can do better than what we're seeing right now.

Therefore, I disagree with you that there are not skillset being wasted. They are. I just think like every player, a chance to show those skills have to be given.

---

Diesel, you are ridiculous (I think that is the angle you play though).

Ive seen you tell people "you have to watch the games" before. The same applies to you in regards to Shelly.

The dude looks flat-out bad. Even the month he won rookie of the month, he looked bad (and racked up a lot of his stats against tanking teams). This is a genuine problem. I dont know why you think so highly of Shelly or what you see in him, because I dont see much. The dude can rebound. Thats about it. He cant score. He cant defend (which is the real kick-in-the-balls, b/c this is what he's SUPPOSED to bring, but yet he doesnt).

The difference between Marvin and Smoove and him is that, at least when Marvin and Smoove have struggled, they show flashes; you can tell that there is more there. You can tell that they have real talent that just needs time to be refined. THIS IS NOT THE CASE WITH SHELLY.

I agree with Woody on giving him so few minutes. He generally looks HORRIBLE out there; why give him any more minutes? It's not like he's going out there, playing decent, and then Woody yanks him without merit. Nope, not at all. He has deserved to be benched. That's the sad reality.

But yes, I do agree that his rudimentary skillset would be better utilized on a more structured team. So, BK should be on the phone with an Indy, a Utah, etc... not that this will happen.

[thesheedera]

Quote:

---

Now, for Thesheedera.. You can't argue that Marvin has not had his time to show. He played damn near 35 mpg last season. He will probably get as much playing time this season. Yet you all want to piss and moan on Shelden and he's playing 14 and 17 minutes per game? First off if his complimentary 14 and 17 mpg is making that much of an effect on our team, I hope we trade him and watch him blow up somewhere else. However, the problems that we have will still remain!

---

When have I ever said Marvin hasn't gotten enough PT?

You just made that argument up out of nowhere.

You don't accept it when someone else blames Woodson for how he utilizes Marvin, not how much PT, but how he uses Marvin's talent. And yet you think Shelden's being misused and isn't excelling because of the system he's in.

Do you understand why that looks very hypocritical to the outside eye?

[Diesel]

I rag on Smoove all the time???

When? When I say that he would play better at the 3?

I think Smoove is our most necessary player.

The truth is that you are oversensitive about anything said about Smoove. Oversensitive, so that the least amount of criticism (even if it's really positive) you turn it into ragging?

I definitely rag on Marvin... and he's yet to prove me anything but right.

Ask yourself.. Would you rather have Marvin or Paul or Deron?

[atlien]

Quote:

---

Ask yourself.. Would you rather have Marvin or Paul or Deron?

---

haha, wow. how many times do we need to re-harp this one bud?

[macdaddy]

There are always arguments do be made about value and draft position etc. but in terms of how they have played vs my own personal hopes/expectations it looks like this:

Chill: better than expected

Smoove: much better than expected

Marvin: average

Sheldon: below average

But that's just so far. To me its hard to make the case that either Marvin or Sheldon has been as good everyone expected them to be.

[thesheedera]

Even Marvin's biggest fans know he was the wrong pick. That's not enough to justify "ragging on" him each and every day, as you just flat out admit to (at least you're being honest about that).

I'd rather have a lot of guys drafted later than Shelden and Childress, but that doesn't give me reason to rag on them.

I would have preferred trading for Wade, LeBron or Kobe to getting JJ, but guess what? That didn't happen. Is that reason to kill Johnson? Of course not.

[AHF]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Ask yourself.. Would you rather have Marvin or Paul or Deron?

---

haha, wow. how many times do we need to re-harp this one bud?

---

If you are asking people their opinion of the draft with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I am thinking the same number of people would take the guards (Paul or Deron) today if asked this question as would take Brandon Roy over Shelden Williams. There is just little question that we missed out on better players in both those drafts.

[HawksFan87]

Back then I wanted Paul , But now we have Marvin and you are just gonna have to get over the fact that he's here. As much as I rag on Marvin, I really want him to succeed. We need him to play better if we want to make the playoffs any time soon.

[Diesel]

I don't not want Marvin to succeed. I just get tired of Marvin fans talking about how great he is or he is going to be when the truth of the matter is that he's done nothing significant and he's not really earned his time on the floor. When I look at all that's wrong with the Hawks, the first thing is that we are playing people out of position to validate one guys draft position. That's first and foremost.

Secondly, the guys play is not validating him being on the floor.

[HAWKS1986]

Quote:

---

If this regime will not play a player that may help this team because a player was drafted higher then they should all be fired. Its all about right now and right now solomon can block more shots and rebound better than shelden. Some may defend shelden but I say to you that this guy cannot help this team the way he is playing right now. If he starts to regain his confidence and practice hard then and only then should he be ahead of solomon on the depth chart. I'm tired of hearing some hawks fans talk about sheldens on the ball defense and rebounding prowess. If he is great or above average at either then I have yet to see it.

---

I totally agree.

If Soloman provides a spark, plays with more passion, block shots, played stronger consistent defense and make his teammates better, then he should play.

Shelden was a drafting mistake, but the bigger mistake is letting him play out of an 'obligation'..

[BossTweed]

Quote:

---

I don't not want Marvin to succeed. I just get tired of Marvin fans talking about how great he is or he is going to be when the truth of the matter is that he's done nothing significant and he's not really earned his time on the floor. When I look at all that's wrong with the Hawks, the first thing is that we are playing people out of position to validate one guys draft position. That's first and foremost.

Secondly, the guys play is not validating him being on the floor.

---

When was the last time someone said Marvin is great or that he is going to be great? I can't remember reading that recently from any regular poster on this board.

I think you've done your job and you should just relax knowing that everyone here knows how you feel, and wait till the halfway point of the season and let us know if you've changed your mind on Marvin or not. I don't know if he will or not, but if he has changed your mind, I know the Hawks will probably be in pretty good shape too.

[exodus]

Quote:

---

Secondly, the guys play is not validating him being on the floor.

---

yeah his preseason performance really isn't good enough to warrant a spot in the rotation. He is being outplayed so badly that he should obviously be benched.

[Hawkzzz21]

I don't want to say Shelden was a mistake, but will admit he looks awkard (he did last year, have not seen him this year).

I am gonna go out on a limb and say Billy Knight has ESPN?

I clearly remember around December (the year leading up to the SW Draft)and our biggest weakness was letting guys drive right to the basket and lay it in or dunk the ball home. We needed a presence in the center that would stop that. It was essential that we focused on a shot blocker. Through rumors, the Hawks name got brung up in some free agents or players that might get traded due to salary, and they were purely shot blockers. Of coarse, we know nothing happend and was left with the 5th pick in the draft to find that shot blocker.

Now, getting back to Billy Knight having ESPN. I would watch the Hawks, then Sportscenter, and then they would replay the evening college game in the wee hours of the morning. Duke was shown on television a lot and he just didn't let anything or anyone get close to the rim. He was a defensive pressence and one of the best I saw in college basketball that year. I was leaning toward Shelden in December and this was way before I knew where the Hawks were drafting at and what other players might be available. After all the expert predictions came in, Shelden could have been drafted as high as 8 in the draft that year. I do think BK tried to swap with the 6 and 7 place teams that year in that draft, but couldn't swing a deal. Making a deal for the 8th pick or later, would have been a risk and BK didn't want to take that.

So BK does fall in love with players on draft day and I think a good example of that is Josh Childress. The Hawks didn't have as much info. on Deng, because he was going to be selected before the Hawk's pick that year. If I'm not getting my drafts confused, I think it was the Bulls at 3 that was going to draft Deng (by all expert accounts), and the Hawks main guy was going to be Ben Gordon. Instead the 3rd team in the draft that year took Gordon, and left the Hawks with their 2nd best guy in Childress. I don't think they ever considered Deng, because he wasn't suppose to be availabe at that spot in the draft.

It would be nice to see the ALL LONG TEAM on the court for a few minutes in one game.

PG Joe Johnson

SG Marvin Williams/Josh Childress

SF Josh Smith

PF Al Horford

C Solomon Jones

[Zone034life]

Whats the point of having depth when a player(Shelden) is playing horribly on both ends of the floor and getting minutes, even if they are complimentary.

Let me give you some examples:

1. Shelden missed an easy dunk yesterday.(Portland rebound)

2. Shelden travels after catching pass at foul line(Portland ball)

3. Shelden pump fakes three times passes it out and the Hawks have to force a bad shot up.

4. Rebound comes off the rim and shelden is out hustled by a pg for the rebound(Portland ball)

5. The great rebounding and on ball defense is none existent. He doesn't alter any shots in the paint.

You see he is costing the Hawks offensive possessions and is not making a difference on the defensive end ala Smoove.

What do you suggest the Hawks do about this? Surely you don't think he should be given more minutes playing so bad.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

(( thinking ))

If Candace Parker was my woman, I'd be a little "off" too. I'm sure she's spend a lot of "time" with him over the past few months. Give the man a chance to recouperate.

I think the Lady Vols crank up practices today, so her time with him may be a little more limited. He'll get his strength back.