Phoenix Wins the JJ Trade

[Hawkzzz21]

I have never took sides on the JJ trade until now. My first reaction when I seen ESPN's bottomline that Atlanta gave up 2 first round picks for Joe Johnson was a shocking one. Especially when you figure that a team in a rebuilding mode needs as many as those 1st round picks they can get.

Now those picks could be scrubs or they could be Josh Smith, who knows? What we did know is that JJ was a great player based on where he was drafted and improved every year in the NBA. He was sure to take another positive step coming to our team. He did that and now apparently he has reached his limits as an NBA player.

What makes a guy like Joe Johnson want to come to Atlanta, when he was in such a great situation like in Phoenix? He was in a great position to win, but not to be a star in Phoenix. He got his chance at stardom in Atlanta and the finish product is in front of our eyes in 2007.

He didn't catch my eye in the openner, but my eyes have not left him since game 2 of this season. He plays defense with no passion and he has the ability to play defense, but doesn't choose to go at it with all he's got. He has been struggling with his shot and its effected his defensive ability. There was no pep in his steps in games 2, 3, and 4.

Now comes game 5 of the season, where apparently him and Pierce were exchanging blows that got unnoticed for the most part by Bob and Steve. He got a little peppier on defense and after making a shot, he had a lot of pep in his defensive step. I know guys typically do play better on defense, right after they have scored a bucket, but this isn't true for your leaders or someone that you want to be a leader.

JJ is not the leader of this team and everything that is said about Lue's offensive game, is true for Joe Johnson too. He holds the ball, dribbles around and finally throws up a shot. He has amazing offensive skills to shoot long range shots, shots that are contested, and those last second shots. He is playing basketball for those momments and that is what Joe Johnson is. It was really clear last year when we would give him the keys to the offense, with the shot clock turned off. He never had the desire to pass the ball and would force shots or turn it over more times than he would sink that buzzer beater.

Joe Johnson can't pass the ball! I don't mean that in the sense that he doesn't want to pass the ball, he doesn't have the athletic ability to pass. He tries to make his one on one move and when it fails, he always gives that lazy pass to one of his teammates. He doesn't understand that pass needs to be just as crisp as the shot, for the team to succeed.

Joe is teaching one thing that is very clear to this young team. That is how to sulk on the court. Our players get that sulking from JJ. I agree with one poster that said J. Smith was complaining to much to the refs, but JJ rarely does. It seems like J. Smith has more passion and cares more about these games than JJ does. I know people are different in the way they handle things, but JJ never tries to make up for his mistakes. He hides from his, while a guy like Marvin tonight missed a dunk and got back down the floor to be in on the defense. Joe doesn't try to redeem his mistakes. He is very comparable to what Shareff was for this team. Both guys can give you a lot, but they make silly turnovers and give it all back.

Salim Stoudamire got off the bench tonight and was going to come into the game. He stops half way down the bench and bends down to tie his shoes. JJ was on the other side of the court and flung a pass to Salim (who wasn't even in the game). This was a situation that JJ had dribbled the ball a few seconds at the top of the key and should have knew where his teammates were on the floor. He goes to his right and Boston throws a trap on him and then there goes JJ throwing the pass across the court to Salim Stoudamire, who was in the front of the Hawks bench, and did stick out, but he was not even in the game yet. It's the perfect example to where JJ's mind is at on offense.

Our team is slightly better with age and two rookies that have contributed. It has nothing to do with JJ! We have barely beat the Mavs and Suns who didn't have Josh Howard or Amare Stoudamire playing with them. I think we beat our 30 mark, but unless JJ gets benched or injured, our team is gonna be stuck in the mud.

I give Phoenix the nod in our trade, because I see that draft pick being a lottery pick. Now if that ball comes out to be one of the top 3 picks; it isn't gonna be a factor with me. I already know that JJ will never gel with the team we have now and he won't be a part of any playoff run we might make deep into the Eastern Conference Playoffs. Just knowing that we have a shot at a top 3 pick next year, tells me that the JJ trade was bad.

I will still root for the team as long as we are winning our home games. That's 41 wins if we stay perfect at home. If the loses start to out number the wins by a 3 to 1 margin, might as well throw in the towel and root for them to lose, so that 2nd round pick in 2008 will be near the top. I just assume turn off the engine now and get more talent in here, than just to make the playoffs and be the first team to get put out. We had enough of those playoff births in the Lenny Wilkens Era. I want championships!

Trade or new coach, I might still be on board for this year. If JJ gets injured, we will start winning again like we did last year when he went down. JJ is the cancer on this team. I can't blame the back up PG's like Lue (although he is just as bad), but it's your stars you have to put the blame on.

Bad trade BK.

[prolific25]

It was a bad TRADE because it was a trade that didn't have to be made. I thought the Hawks were pretty dumb for not signing him to an offer sheet considering the Suns financial situation.

However...there's no way the Suns got the better end of the trade. Right now it's basically Joe for Diaw and whatever pick we get this year. If we win close to 40 games they will probably just sell the pick any way.

[TexasPete]

Yeah, I'd rather have Boris Diaw??? PHX hasn't even cashed in on one of our picks yet. So, they havent exactly made out like bandits.

They got their ass kicked in the trade. I watched JJ carry our sorry ass team on his back for over half of last season. Without him, we win 15 games.

Seriously, there are way too many people here who panic after 5 games. JJ will get it done in the end. That trade has worked out in spades. Plus, PHX overpaid Diaw who blew his wad after a fluke season. They want rid of his contract in the worst way.

I would re-think my post if I were you because it makes very little sense.

[Murat]

How did they win the trade? They have Diaw(50mil) they sold one of their picks and should get another one in 10-17 range.

We got a all around player who does everything for us and plus he scores 20-25 on a high fg%.

You need to chill dude, Joe will get it together in no time. You will see.

[ecc423]

he's right...i quit.

[Hawkzzz21]

OK....let's say we just miss the playoffs and are the 14th team from last place. We have the least shot at landing the overall number 1 pick next year, but at least it's a shot. It's also a shot at the 2nd or 3rd pick in the draft and I would much rather have that pick or a shot at that pick, than JJ right now.

My comments are not based on our wins, or his jumper being off right now. We need to run, drive to the basket, and stop the one on one game. JJ is the leader and leads me to believe guys like Lue and J. Smith take their long shots in the game, because they won't get the ball back if it gets in Joe's hands either.

Look at the guys that can dunk on this team. I don't mean a Jason Terry dunk, I mean guys that can really dunk. Horford, both Joshes, Marvin, Shelden, etc... How many lobs have there been to the basket, where guys grab them and dunk them home? I think Marvin's dunk tonight (that was a lob from JJ), was the first one the Hawk's had this year. Denver attempts 5 of these a game and I know it's a difference in offensive philosphy, but those JJ long jump shots, is taking away from that part of the game that we could demoralize teams with.

Yes, JJ did carry us last year. He's been great getting us to where we are at, but he can't take us no further. If he can't be the top dawg, he don't wanna play. JJ isn't going to be Kobe or LBJ, but he wants to be. He's not a team player and that is what our team needs.

JJ is a great scorer and makes difficult shots. Why make the difficult shots when you can lay it in or dunk it home? I will take one ping pong ball for JJ right now.

[atlien]

Sorry, but I disagree with almost all your JJ disses.　I dont even feel the need to dissect them one by one, but some of that was ridiculous.

[FrankWhite]

If we hadn't made that trade, we'd have Diaw (or not; we'd probably have let his sorry ass go by now) and Rajon Rondo to show for it.

Yeah, that would really have pushed this rebuilding team to the next level.

[Hawkzzz21]

Quote:

---

Yeah, I'd rather have Boris Diaw??? PHX hasn't even cashed in on one of our picks yet. So, they havent exactly made out like bandits.

They got their ass kicked in the trade. I watched JJ carry our sorry ass team on his back for over half of last season. Without him, we win 15 games.

Seriously, there are way too many people here who panic after 5 games. JJ will get it done in the end. That trade has worked out in spades. Plus, PHX overpaid Diaw who blew his wad after a fluke season. They want rid of his contract in the worst way.

I would re-think my post if I were you because it makes very little sense.

---

OK...done! I did re-think my post and I can see one thing that we disagree with, that's not JJ related. You say we would have won 15 games without JJ last year, but we won 30 with him. If we can't make it to the championship game, I just assume have 15 wins as opposed to 30 wins. It gives us better odds on landing top players in the draft. I am willing to do whatever it takes to win a championship. I do think you have to make strides, like winning more games than you did the year before, but unfortunately that is every team in the league's goal.

I would be happy to be a Portland Trail Blazer fan right now. They got top choice in the draft, they are in their rebuilding mode and that top player (Oden) isn't going to help them one bit this year. They stand a great chance to land another top pick in the next draft. They would win more games with Oden and I just assume to have him sit. I realize he has to learn the game sometime and get better as a player, but he's just a sophmore in college right now in terms of age, so they still get a junior in college next year, along with a player like Mayo (who will probably be a player in the draft next year).

Most Falcon fans are still rooting for the Falcons right now. I realize me rooting against the home team makes me seem like the bad guy, but I'm only doing what I think is best for the team. The Falcons get a better chance at a top notch player if they lose the rest of their games. I would hate to see them win a few games and miss out on a top 5 player.

I think we are stuck in the mud if we continue to let JJ dribble the ball for 15 seconds and take the jumper. Let's stop wasting time and get things right!

[Murat]

It's not Joe's fault we have a dumb coach. Did you watch Joe in Phoneix? They actualy have a system and he shot 47% on trees his last season. He was just shy of 200 for the season.

Joe doesn't play 1on1 because he wants to, it's because we have no OFFENSIVE system. That's why guys like Smoove, T-lue and Joe end up taking a shot. We never run pick an rolls, and we can do that all day now that we got Horford. Remember when we ran that play with JT and Reef the whole time and it was preety efficent. Just imagine if we get a coach who can do that with JJ and Horford, or Law and Horford in the long term. We can run curls for Joe on one side and Marvin on other. There is sooo many things we can do other than play iso's all the freaking time. Woody has no creativity at all and we will pay for that against good defensive teams like Boston.

[Plainview1981]

Quote:

---

It's not Joe's fault we have a dumb coach. Did you watch Joe in Phoneix? They actualy have a system and he shot 47% on trees his last season. He was just shy of 200 for the season.

Joe doesn't play 1on1 because he wants to, it's because we have no OFFENSIVE system. That's why guys like Smoove, T-lue and Joe end up taking a shot. We never run pick an rolls, and we can do that all day now that we got Horford. Remember when we ran that play with JT and Reef the whole time and it was preety efficent. Just imagine if we get a coach who can do that with JJ and Horford, or Law and Horford in the long term. We can run curls for Joe on one side and Marvin on other. There is sooo many things we can do other than play iso's all the freaking time. Woody has no creativity at all and we will pay for that against good defensive teams like Boston.

---

Part of the reason the Hawks have no system is because they don't have a PG to run one.

[Blunt91]

Dude the Hawks pick in 08 is "unprotected" so the suns get our pick regardless of how good or bad we finish.

[TheDude]

that joe johnson trade was an excellent trade for us...we got joe johnson, all star..they got a "piece" of their puzzle and some picks...not even high picks...

do we need more picks or something? last time i checked we were one of the youngest team in the league with youth and lack of experience being one of our only things holding us back...

so i guess if you take joe johnson off this team and add boris diaw and one pick (because next years pick isnt here yet), we'd make the playoffs?

ABSURD.

[exodus]

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

]Part of the reason the Hawks have no system is because they don't have a PG to run one.

---

Then Eddie House must be a top 10 point guard because I saw Boston running offensive sets in the half court quite well with him in the game last night. I'm getting so tired of all these excuses why certain players on this team play poorly. At some point we need to stop blaming Woody or the lack of a point guard on the fact that other than Childress, nobody on this team moves well without the ball in his hand. And we have a bunch of one on one players like Smith, Lue, and Joe controlling the half court set who can't pass!

[Plainview1981]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

]Part of the reason the Hawks have no system is because they don't have a PG to run one.

---

Then Eddie House must be a top 10 point guard because I saw Boston running offensive sets in the half court quite well with him in the game last night. I'm getting so tired of all these excuses why certain players on this team play poorly. At some point we need to stop blaming Woody or the lack of a point guard on the fact that other than Childress, nobody on this team moves well without the ball in his hand. And we have a bunch of one on one players like Smith, Lue, and Joe controlling the half court set who can't pass!

---

I said partly. Boston has 3 offensive playmakers in Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and KG. The Hawks have JJ and that's about it.

[mrhonline]

Quote:

---

Then Eddie House must be a top 10 point guard because I saw Boston running offensive sets in the half court quite well with him in the game last night. I'm getting so tired of all these excuses why certain players on this team play poorly. At some point we need to stop blaming Woody or the lack of a point guard on the fact that other than Childress, nobody on this team moves well without the ball in his hand. And we have a bunch of one on one players like Smith, Lue, and Joe controlling the half court set who can't pass!

---

You certainly must understand the effect that having three SUPER half-court players in Allen, Pierce, and Garnett has, right? House doesn't have to do anything other than give someone the ball and move to the open spot.

So, you're right. If the Hawks traded for Tim Duncan and Richard Jefferson to play alongside JJ, then the PG spot won't matter.

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

House doesn't have to do anything other than give someone the ball and move to the open spot.

So, you're right. If the Hawks traded for Tim Duncan and Richard Jefferson to play alongside JJ, then the PG spot won't matter.

---

Other players were moving with out the ball and were making the extra pass! That was the difference

[mrhonline]

Quote:

---

Other players were moving with out the ball and were making the extra pass! That was the difference

---

LOL. That's funny stuff.

Have you ever watched San Antonio? Bowen, Finley, and Barry basically take turns standing around in one area to dump the ball into Duncan. When he gets doubled, they hit the open three.

Boston can give Pierce the ball and let him penetrate, and that alone is hard to defend. The defense has to and SHOULD sag, leaving Ray Allen or Eddie House wide open. If that fails, they can simply let Garnett takes his man on the baseline or inside. If the defense sags, guess who is wide open again?

Having a dominate inside-outside game makes the gameplan horrifically simple for role players like House or Rondo. In the absence of such an dominant inside-outside game, you need a PG to push the ball, penetrate into the lane, and create opportunities. The Hawks don't have that player, but could certainly use him.

[Peoriabird]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Other players were moving with out the ball and were making the extra pass! That was the difference

---

LOL. That's funny stuff.

Have you ever watched San Antonio? Bowen, Finley, and Barry basically take turns standing around in one area to dump the ball into Duncan. When he gets doubled, they hit the open three.

Boston can give Pierce the ball and let him penetrate, and that alone is hard to defend. The defense has to and SHOULD sag, leaving Ray Allen or Eddie House wide open. If that fails, they can simply let Garnett takes his man on the baseline or inside. If the defense sags, guess who is wide open again?

Having a dominate inside-outside game makes the gameplan horrifically simple for role players like House or Rondo. In the absence of such an dominant inside-outside game, you need a PG to push the ball, penetrate into the lane, and create opportunities. The Hawks don't have that player, but could certainly use him.

---

Please rewatch the game!