Is it time to explore Trading Josh Smith

[b3bawla]

And late last year...20.3 points per game on 46% shooting (38% from 3)in March (15 games). 21.1 on 44% in April (7 games). He showed the beginnings of a real post up game and the ability to hit an open jumper.

[AtLaS]

It's all on Woody. He needs to straight up tell Josh that he is a defender, first and foremost. He is NOT a scorer, he needs to tell Smith that he's going to bench Smith everytime he takes a bad shot. Problem is Woody doesn't have the balls to do it.

Just watch us trade him to a team with a real coach, a coach that won't put up with Josh taking those shots. Once that coach teaches Josh to not shoot, he will explode.

[mrhonline]

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And late last year...20.3 points per game on 46% shooting (38% from 3)in March (15 games). 21.1 on 44% in April (7 games). He showed the beginnings of a real post up game and the ability to hit an open jumper.

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That's just it. He had a good month from behind the arc in March, and has altered his game for the worse ever since.

If anything, the months before and after suggest that March wa s a fluke in terms of perimeter shooting.

[b3bawla]

Maybe I'm trying to stay in my dreamland where Josh becomes a bigtime star...but Josh is notoriously a slow starter offensively. Every year he's been in the league he shoots under 40% in November...and by the end of the year he's found his rhythm. And yes, I know that the schedule starts in November. I just don't want to give away a guy who (I may get flammed for this) has a skill set that no one else in the league has (not saying that he's the most talented player...just easily one of the most unique).

[mrhonline]

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Just watch us trade him to a team with a real coach, a coach that won't put up with Josh taking those shots. Once that coach teaches Josh to not shoot, he will explode.

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That doesn't make any sense to me.

If he's not shooting, how is he contributing on offense? Are you suggesting that said coach will also teach him a post-up game and give him the requisite handle to be a consistent scorer off the dribble?

Personally, I think Josh Smith is most valuable when his offensive role is limited. But he'd have to agree to that knowing it will cost him money in the offseason.

[BossTweed]

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It's all on Woody. He needs to straight up tell Josh that he is a defender, first and foremost. He is NOT a scorer, he needs to tell Smith that he's going to bench Smith everytime he takes a bad shot. Problem is Woody doesn't have the balls to do it.

Just watch us trade him to a team with a real coach, a coach that won't put up with Josh taking those shots. Once that coach teaches Josh to not shoot, he will explode.

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That's how I see it Atlas. We can't trade Josh Smith until we get a real coach with a real offensive system and some testicles to get Smith's attention.

[Plainview1981]

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Maybe I'm trying to stay in my dreamland where Josh becomes a bigtime star...but Josh is notoriously a slow starter offensively. Every year he's been in the league he shoots under 40% in November...and by the end of the year he's found his rhythm. And yes, I know that the schedule starts in November. I just don't want to give away a guy who (I may get flammed for this) has a skill set that no one else in the league has (not saying that he's the most talented player...just easily one of the most unique).

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Where are these skills?

[b3bawla]

You are right about that...but was I the only one that saw that Josh was actually scoring with some regularity with his back to the basket last year?!?!?!?

Seriously I need to know, because maybe I imagined it.

[mrhonline]

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That's how I see it Atlas. We can't trade Josh Smith until we get a real coach with a real offensive system and some testicles to get Smith's attention.

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You guys are to be admired for your patience, but you're skirting the issue here.

The Hawks aren't likely to hire a new coach until AFTER Josh Smith's final rookie season comes to a close. What do you do with Josh Smith the free agent in the meantime?

Do you pay him the big bucks, hoping he'll become that consistent threat on both sides of the ball when a new coach takes over, or do you trade him because he's not yet justified the big bucks?

[DJlaysitup]

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What flashes of offensive talent has he shown? Be honest here. Does he have a low post game in any way? No. Does he have a reliable jump shot? No. Does he have a reliable three point range? No. What exactly DOES he have besides some fast break or put back dunk potential on a regular basis?

I am not being a hater. I am being serious. Go back and look at his game film and tell me what he does on offense on a reliable basis that makes you think he's worth the 10 million plus a year it will take to resign him.

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Yeah, I think you are right Soth...I've always been a JS fan because he seems to improve every year and can occasionally take over a game with his athleticism. But really, he still can't finish around the basket and his outside shooting is poop. I would trade him to a WC team that gives us the most value. Get a quality center or PG and move on. As much as I have complained about Marvin - I do see improvement and shooting ability. I think JS is taking away opportunities from him. Of course we won't be just ditching JS - we should at least be able to get a quality center or a quality PG to go with Acie when he's healthy...and maybe a first rounder to boot.

Sorry Josh - luv ya man - but this ain't workin.

[BossTweed]

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You are right about that...but was I the only one that saw that Josh was actually scoring with some regularity with his back to the basket last year?!?!?!?

Seriously I need to know, because maybe I imagined it.

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I remember seeing him use some low post moves. I know he can do it, that's why I want another coach to force him to use them. He has to be better in the post than our other options, and he has to shoot AT LEAST as good a percentage from the post as he does from the outside.

As far as what to do in the mean time, I'm not really sure. I guess you have to keep him and hope that him having a bad year will mean that he can't ask for a max contract or anything near it. Of course this means that if other teams still think he is worth a lot, you have to end up doing a sign an trade, possibly getting less than you could if you traded him this season. That is just a risk you have to take I guess. There is definitely a dilemma though, you're right.

[AtLaS]

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If he's not shooting, how is he contributing on offense?

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He isn't an offensive player, period. The sooner a coach pounds that into his head, the better. Woody doesn't have the balls to do it.

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Personally, I think Josh Smith is most valuable when his offensive role is limited. But he'd have to agree to that knowing it will cost him money in the offseason.

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AK47 sucks at offense, Ben Wallace sucks at offense, Marcus Camby sucks at offense, Dikembe Mutombo sucks at offense. Josh Smith definitely has the potential to be that kind of impact defender, and YES he will still get paid.

Josh will contribute when he's on a team with offensive continuity. Once he learns, he'll get tons of garbage points and drives to the basket. He's still only 21, and his jumper could definitely improve within a few years.

I'm not against trading him if we get a GOOD return, but I just don't see what we could get. Gasol would be an attractive target for me.

[Buzzard]

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Do you pay him the big bucks, hoping he'll become that consistent threat on both sides of the ball when a new coach takes over, or do you trade him because he's not yet justified the big bucks?

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If at the end of the season he is still shooting around .400, he is not getting paid big bucks by me. If you are saying I have to make that choice right now, I trade him.

[b3bawla]

How many 6'9 235 lbs guys out these can handle the ball enough to occasionally cross all-stars over (he got Dirk Nowitzki in the 1st game), can rebound (he gets 7 or so now...it's not a stretch to see him getting 9-10 when he turns 25, four years from now), has the lateral mobility to do a decent job on big 2 guards and quick 3's, gets a good number of steals (2 a game this year), has shown shown the willingness and ability to pass (3.4 dimes this year), has freaky athleticism, and can almost lead the league in blocks before he could legally buy a drink.

You can only compare him to Amare, AK 47, or Shawn Marion. And he's a MUCH better shot blocker than all those guys and all those guys came into the league as 20 or 21 year olds (remember Amare was an old high schooler).

I'm not saying that he will be better than Amare or Marion. Tonight I think my sister (all 5'2 of her) could have played better on offense, but let's just wait. What if Boston had waited for Joe...or Denver with Chauncey?

[mrhonline]

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Josh will contribute when he's on a team with offensive continuity. Once he learns, he'll get tons of garbage points and drives to the basket. He's still only 21, and his jumper could definitely improve within a few years.

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I don't see the jumper improving enough to be a consistent weapon, but I do agree about contributing occasionally on a team with continuity. The problem is that the Hawks are seemingly locked into several other young players at other positions for the foreseeable future.

How long before you have the right pieces around him to justify the big bucks?

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If at the end of the season he is still shooting around .400, he is not getting paid big bucks by me. If you are saying I have to make that choice right now, I trade him.

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I suppose you could arrange a S&T, but his BYC status will make that AWFULLY hard to pull off. You risk him taking the QO and ultimately leaving for nothing if you don't pay him this offseason.

As much as the Hawks' FO seems to want to play dead while the ownership fiasco is going on, doing nothing could be a huge mistake in the long-term.

[b3bawla]

Let me rephrase that...you can only compare his skill set to those guys. Not production...skill set.

[mrhonline]

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You can only compare him to Amare, AK 47, or Shawn Marion. And he's a MUCH better shot blocker than all those guys and all those guys came into the league as 20 or 21 year olds (remember Amare was an old high schooler).

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You've grossly exaggerated his offensive skills by comparing him to Amare and Marion, and Kirilenko's contract will hamper Utah's ability to keep their other young talent together.

Comparing Smith to AK47 just makes me feel even more worried.

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Tonight I think my sister (all 5'2 of her) could have played better on offense, but let's just wait. What if Boston had waited for Joe...or Denver with Chauncey?

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There are at least two bad contracts for every one player that develops into his.

[b3bawla]

You may be right...but who actually wants to play for the Hawks with this ownership situation? JJ came here...and look at how frustrated he is. We trade him for a guy that helps us make the playoffs and they bolt the 1st chance he gets. I really think if the Hawks are to be a good team in the next 5 years we gotta do it with JJ, Smoove, and Woody.

I am going to stay in Smoove's corner until I absolutely can't anymore...because I gotta. I bet he really needs our support after seeing how bad his shooting percentage is.

[Dexmethylphenidate]

Josh should have no business in looking for his own shot when he's in the perimeter. He can look to score when he's in the post or somewhere close to the basket. He a much better player if he doesn't have that scorer mentality. I blame this all on Woodson.

[Buzzard]

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I suppose you could arrange a S&T, but his BYC status will make that AWFULLY hard to pull off. You risk him taking the QO and ultimately leaving for nothing if you don't pay him this offseason.

As much as the Hawks' FO seems to want to play dead while the ownership fiasco is going on, doing nothing could be a huge mistake in the long-term.

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I do not want to lose him for nothing. 10 mill a year is all I would offer; if he wants more he will have to get it somewhere else.

I am sure someone will do a SNT if anyone else wants him for more. There are not a lot of teams out there that could offer him 10+ mill a year straight up. Some creative cap manuvering will probably be needed.