The Case for keeping Childress

[gsuteke]

Childress has become one of my favorite Atlanta Hawks. He just does all the things you need to win ball games.

Chillz is the type of player the Hawks need when they get into that "Woody ball" mode that is so hard to watch.

Chillz doesn't need to be set up. He can create his own opportunities when the offense becomes stagnant by driving the ball. He's not an overwhelming finisher but he seems to get the job done.

Chillz can defend. Anyone almost from the 1 to 3 spots. He was guarding Cleveland's PG when Woodson went with the big lineup the other night.

Chillz can bring the ball up to set up that half court set. He and Joe brought it up against Cleveland in fact even with Lue in the game at times.

Chillz has a knack for being in the right place at the right time. Take for instance the game he won for us recently at the buzzer on a putback. Remember him finishing under the rim backwards against Cleveland off that baseball pass from Horford in the 2nd half?

Childress should be somewhat affordable. I'm thinking 6 years 42 to 49 million will do the trick.

He's only going to improve as well. IMO outside of adding Horford's rebounding the team having played together for 3 years now is the biggest reason for their improved record this season.

[Nicholasp27]

chillz was my fave hawk for 3 years until horford came along

he's still #2

i feel very strongly about us working hard to keep him

[BHayley]

Childress has had great games these last 2. Too bad our team isn't playing well.

[Wretch]

I've been defending him the second I saw him play. I've said this countless times and I'll say it once again for the record... If you think Boris blew up when he left our system, then wait until we let Chill slip away and find a place to "fit".

Just wait...

[exodus]

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Chillz doesn't need to be set up.

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Actually he needs to be set up more than anyone in the half court set. If his defender is in position he can't shoot over him or drive by him.

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Chillz can defend. Anyone almost from the 1 to 3 spots.

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Problem is he can't defend them well.

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Chillz can bring the ball up to set up that half court set.

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Anyone could bring the ball up when there is no defensive pressure. When there is defensive pressure Childress struggles.

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Chillz has a knack for being in the right place at the right time. Take for instance the game he won for us recently at the buzzer on a putback. Remember him finishing under the rim backwards against Cleveland off that baseball pass from Horford in the 2nd half?

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Childress' list of late game blunders is the longest on the team.

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He's only going to improve as well.

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What part of his game has improved over the last 3 years?

[pound4pound]

I think there is a correlation. Chills is a great "junk" player meaning he plays well when no plays are called for him: fast breaks, one on one plays, offensive rebounds, inbound plays.

I am not bashing him - I think that when things break down - Chills can really step up.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Chillz doesn't need to be set up.

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Actually he needs to be set up more than anyone in the half court set. If his defender is in position he can't shoot over him or drive by him.

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You could say that about just about everybody on the team though. Neither Smoove or Marvin or Chill shoots over people or drives past them for a score, if their man is in positon. What all 3 can do though, is draw a foul while going to the hole. Each one of those guys do this at a pretty high rate. If you can draw a foul more than 15% of the time when you're going to the hole, that's pretty good

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Chillz can defend. Anyone almost from the 1 to 3 spots.

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Problem is he can't defend them well.

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He doesn't defend them terribly either. Chill doesn't normally get lit up by his man. In fact, the numbers suggest that he's pretty good at keeping his man from scoring. Next to Law and Mario, Chill may be our best perimeter defender. He and JJ are about equal defensively. Chill guards PGs better, JJ guards tweener SFs better.

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Chillz can bring the ball up to set up that half court set.

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Anyone could bring the ball up when there is no defensive pressure. When there is defensive pressure Childress struggles.

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He only struggles against very good defensive PGs who pressure the ball. A guy like that will make most guards struggle bringing the ball up. In the JJ - Chill backcourt, it's a luxury for JJ to be able to hand it to Chill to bring the ball up.

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Chillz has a knack for being in the right place at the right time. Take for instance the game he won for us recently at the buzzer on a putback. Remember him finishing under the rim backwards against Cleveland off that baseball pass from Horford in the 2nd half?

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Childress' list of late game blunders is the longest on the team.

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But he does more things well in those situatons, than he does bad. He'll do someting to win a game, far more than he'll do something to lose a game.

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He's only going to improve as well.

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What part of his game has improved over the last 3 years?

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He's finishing at a 70% rate on the iniside, which has led to him shooting a career high FG% to this point. He's also better defensively this year, than in past years.

[exodus]

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Neither Smoove or Marvin or Chill shoots over people or drives past them for a score, if their man is in positon.

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Marvin can do it easily. Frequently when he posts up he will turn and face the guy then shoot right in his face.

Smith just can't shoot but he can definitely drive past guys even when they are playing off him.

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He only struggles against very good defensive PGs who pressure the ball. A guy like that will make most guards struggle bringing the ball up. In the JJ - Chill backcourt, it's a luxury for JJ to be able to hand it to Chill to bring the ball up.

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If his ball handling skills are so good why does he have more turnovers than assists?

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He doesn't defend them terribly either. Chill doesn't normally get lit up by his man.

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He is too slow to guard 1s and 2s and too small to effectively guard 3s.

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But he does more things well in those situatons, than he does bad. He'll do someting to win a game, far more than he'll do something to lose a game.

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You just made that up.

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He's finishing at a 70% rate on the iniside,

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No he isn't.

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He's also better defensively this year, than in past years.

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Faint praise.

[mrhonline]

I'm not going to be upset if the Hawks keep Childress long-term unless they don't address the PG spot in the offseason. The problem with Childress isn't so much his decent play on the court, it's a combination of several factors:

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1. His cost uncertainty.

2. Better and/or younger players are going to get the majority of the minutes at SG and SF (JJ, Marvin, and even Smith in small spurts).

3. The team really needs a consistent perimeter scorer to come off the bench at the wing, as well as a more immediate upgrade at PG.

4. Cheaper options exist to replace his "energy" (e.g., Mario West).

5. He's likely going to want to start elsewhere.

6. His cap hold next summer prevents the Hawks from pursuing anyone above the MLE. Additionally, his value is around the MLE, meaning he'll have no incentive to rush into a deal next offseason.

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All of these reasons are why I think the Hawks should pursue a trade at the deadline. I would not propose they just dump Childress, instead I would look for some combination of the following:

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a. A backup wing who has 3 pt. range and is under contract for less then the MLE for at least one more season.

b. A veteran PG (not an old one, of course) who can defend and hit the open 3, and is under contract for at least one more season for less then the MLE.

c. A lotto-protected 1st round pick, preferably in next year's draft.

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[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Marvin can do it easily. Frequently when he posts up he will turn and face the guy then shoot right in his face.

Smith just can't shoot but he can definitely drive past guys even when they are playing off him.

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If Marvin could consistently do that, he'd be a 20+ ppg scorer, and we could run the offense strictly through Marvin when JJ is out of the game. Smith can drive past bad defensive bigs, so I'll give you that. Part of the problem with this team, when they go through those offensive lulls, is that the guys outside of JJ can't convert when JJ is also ice cold. That's when they try to attack the rim, hoping to draw a foul. They do that well, so that's definitey not a complaint from me.

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If his ball handling skills are so good why does he have more turnovers than assists?

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Most of his turnovers come when he's trying to create for himself going to the hole, not when he's bringing the ball up the court to set up the offense. And Chill isn't a playmaker for others. His role is to be the attacker and be the energy guy off the bench.

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He is too slow to guard 1s and 2s and too small to effectively guard 3s.

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That may be so, but the man that he's guarding still doesn't light him up on defense because of his length. He's an average to slightly above average defender in this league. He's not Shawn Marion, but he's not Kareem Rush on defense either. I have very few complaints with him defensively.

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You just made that up.

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OK . . . name 2 plays that he's messed up in crucial situations this year? Or are you going to back to past seasons to make your case.

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He's finishing at a 70% rate on the iniside,

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No he isn't.

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You know better than that Ex. Just check 82games.com, and look at what he's shooting on the inside. He was right at 70% before last night's game. He may be over 70% now, once they update the numbers. LOL @ no he isn't. Like I'd just pull something like that out of the air or something.

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He's also better defensively this year, than in past years.

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Faint praise.

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LOL . . I see what Diesel is talking about now

(( preparing for your rebuttals, that will probably go in another direction ))

[exodus]

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You know better than that Ex. Just check 82games.com,

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I did.

I guess you must be including dunks and tips to get to 70%. When i look at inside numbers i always look at the number not including dunks at tips. But that's just me.

Frankly i have never looked at the bottom number.

And looking at that same page his percentage on jumpers is down 15% from 2 years ago.

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OK . . . name 2 plays that he's messed up in crucial situations this year? Or are you going to back to past seasons to make your case.

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I am looking at his whole career. Just off the top of my head there was the intentional foul against Arenas when we didn't have to foul, the half court shot with several seconds left, letting his man go the length of the court for a layup on an inbounds play, and no telling how many blown inbounds passes.

If you look at this season if i am not mistaken the Hawks have won every game he missed.

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Most of his turnovers come when he's trying to create for himself going to the hole, not when he's bringing the ball up the court to set up the offense.

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When he brings it up under pressure he has to bring it up slowly. He has trouble getting the offense started.

if the big backcourt was so effective they would use it more often.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I have no problem making a deal involving Chill. What I do have a problem with, is trading him for a lesser player. His value is much more higher than trading him for a BU shooter or PG off the bench.

Guys like Kareem Rush only make an impact every now ad then. Most of the time, players like him are a liability on the floor. Chill is too good to be trading for a role player that you can get for MLE money.

Chill, Smoove, or Marvin should only be moved for players that can consistently impact a game on a nightly basis, not every 3 games.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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You know better than that Ex. Just check 82games.com,

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I did.

I guess you must be including dunks and tips to get to 70%. When i look at inside numbers i always look at the number not including dunks at tips. But that's just me.

And looking at that same page his percentage on jumpers is down 15% from 2 years ago.

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OK . . . name 2 plays that he's messed up in crucial situations this year? Or are you going to back to past seasons to make your case.

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I am looking at his whole career. Just off the top of my head there was the intentional foul against Arenas when we didn't have to foul, the half court shot with several seconds left, letting his man go the length of the court for a layup on an inbounds play, and no telling how many blown inbounds passes.

If you look at this season if i am not mistaken the Hawks have won every game he missed.

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Most of his turnovers come when he's trying to create for himself going to the hole, not when he's bringing the ball up the court to set up the offense.

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When he brings it up under pressure he has to bring it up slowly. He has trouble getting the offense started.

if the big backcourt was so effective they would use it more often.

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You don't look at dunks and tips? OK man . . LOL. Most of his dunks and tips come off of him being aggressive and active on the inside. That's the energizer part of his game.

And I was right, you're going into other arguments in your rebuttal. I'm glad some people don't hold Smoove's past faults against him this year.

And the big backcourt is one of our better backcourts defensively. The length of Chill and JJ defnitely affects teams, especially at the end of games. Chill's rebounding ability is especially important during this time.

It is also one of our lesser backcourts offensively. Chill isn't the playmaker in that backcourt, JJ is. JJ will normally go a lot of one on one, especially at the end of games, when paired with Chill in the backcourt.

[exodus]

First let's get this out of the way.

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You don't look at dunks and tips? OK man . . LOL.

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I isn't that i don't count them. It's just that i figure a pro is going to shoot a pretty high percentage on dunks all the time.

I just misunderstood you and looked at the wrong number.

Is childress' improved shooting inside the result of a big improvment in dunks and tips? I doubt it.

Getting back to your original point(Childress' improvement inside) it really doesn't matter which number you use since they both show the same improvement.

Looking at his numbers 2 years ago...do you really think that Childress got so much better at finishing inside while at the same time got so much worse from the outside? I doubt that too. I think it is just a sample size issue.

Now lets get to why i think Childress should hit the road. In order for childress to excel here at least one of two things needs to happen:

1) the Hawks have to become a fast paced team. Right now they are one of the slowest. The faster the game the better for Childress.

and/or

2) marvin would have to be traded. Marvin isn't a sacred cow to me but apparently he is to BK. Childress isn't a pg and obviously he won't get much time at the 2 with JJ here.

i don't see either one of these things happening.

[Lascar78]

Yeah I like Chill a lot and I think he will do great elsewhere, it's just that someone has to go and he seems like the natural candidate. Somebody will have to go. If we go for a trade where we end up shipping Marvin or Smith or someone, then I'd like to keep Chill. Otherwise, he probably will have to go.

[mrhonline]

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I have no problem making a deal involving Chill. What I do have a problem with, is trading him for a lesser player. His value is much more higher than trading him for a BU shooter or PG off the bench.

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That's debatable.

He's certainly NOT worth a starting PG or big, and he's a backup wing himself, so why would he merit more than that?

[Dukegotgame]

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You know better than that Ex. Just check 82games.com,

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I did.

I guess you must be including dunks and tips to get to 70%. When i look at inside numbers i always look at the number not including dunks at tips. But that's just me.

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lol since when did dunks and tip ins not count as inside shots?

the fact that childress always seems to go up strong and finish with drunks is great. id much rather see someone do that and either finish or get fouled, than see a bunch of weak leaners and floaters that JJ seems to love... and miss half of the time.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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I have no problem making a deal involving Chill. What I do have a problem with, is trading him for a lesser player. His value is much more higher than trading him for a BU shooter or PG off the bench.

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That's debatable.

He's certainly NOT worth a starting PG or big, and he's a backup wing himself, so why would he merit more than that?

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Trading Chill would also include trading some of the expiring contracts or a guy like Shelden/Zaza, to bring in a real good starter. If we're to trade one of the youngsters, I'm always looking to trade for at least a disgruntled very good player. ( Gasol, Kidd, etc. ).

I'm not trading him for a one-dimensional role player.

[exodus]

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lol since when did dunks and tip ins not count as inside shots?

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I didn't say they didn't count. I just said i don't look at them.

Two years ago Childress got the same number of points on dunks and tips as he gets now.

If i want to know how well a player is finishing inside i look at the catagory of inside finishes that aren't dunks and tips. That is where any improvement will show up.

[Diesel]

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If i want to know how well a player is finishing inside i look at the catagory of inside finishes that aren't dunks and tips. That is where any improvement will show up.

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I guess you believe that Dwight Howard Sucks then!