Roy would be a HUGE part of this team

[Diesel]

Quote:

---

It has less to do with how we should have taken Roy at that pick, and more to do with not having taken Shelden with that high of a pick (and even worse the guarantee).

With Agents in the game today, you cannot be sure how much of the draft is done with promises. The only thing that happened is that Shelden's promise was leaked to give his agent more leverage with other teams. However, I believe that Roy had a promise in hand and Aldridge too. In fact... They all had the same agent and he said their names in the same leak...

As far as not getting Shelden. I still say.. At the time, the Shelden pick was the pick that made the most sense for our situation.

Now, let's look at what could have happened.

Had we not gotten Shelden, we would have probably ended up given Al Harrington his extension because he would have been the only legit/starting quality PF that we would have had. (I'm not so against that, I just hate to be in a position where there's no choice)... We would have probably never experimented with Smoove at PF. (again, I'm not so against that...I think AL was a good low post scorer and JJ played well with him). Marvin would probably have shared time at Sf with Smoove and Chillz... Somebody would have ultimately been traded... AND... Paying AL 10 million would have guaranteed that we probably would not have drafted Horf.

[oken]

If I remember correctly...

it was Woody that asked BK for frontline help...

that is why they drafted Shelden...

Woody wanted shelden...

because he came from a winning program...and would bring some toughness and rebounding and defense inside...that was lacking with Zaza inside...

As much as we would have liked Roy...or even Rudy Gay now...

at the time...

drafting Shelden......I'm sorry to say was... what Woody needed...

only to find out... that his reputation as the Landlord...only worked against college students...

[Highpozt]

Yes I remember the whole discussion about toughness in the middle with Shelden. Yes no doubt the Hawks as an organization have missed on so much. Brandon and Chris Paul are the most recent. Of course letting Nique go when he was at his peak, and missing on Carl Malone, Chris Mullin and Detlef Shrempf and picking Jon Koncak.

I think what is so disappointing about Shelden is that at least Marvin JSmoove and JChill look like they are becoming ballers, while Shelden on the other hand has not had a game except summer league, were you see what he could potentially bring. I hope we are wrong on Shelden.

[ATL_BALLER]

Shelden was a complete reach. At the very least, trade down, or show a little creativity.

The ASG maintains that Shelden was the perfect pick, because he's a "glue guy." You do NOT take glue guys with the 5th pick in the draft!

[coachx]

Quote:

---

Of course letting Nique go when he was at his peak,

---

That is popular opinion in the local ATL area but it is dead wrong.

We traded Nique at the perfect time (like with Mookie). Look how his production fell off after we traded him. One thing about Kasten and Babcock is that they would not keep overpaid players around just as sentimental favorites.

See for your self:

http://www.nba.com/history/players/wilkins_stats.html

At the time we traded Nique he was shooting his carrer low FG% of .430. In the past he was a 45% to 48% on his FGs. The season after we traded Nique, his scoring dropped from 26 ppg to 17 ppg and his FG % dropped to his career low (at that time) 42%. Two season after the trade his FG % was down to 41%. Three seasons after the trade he was off to Europe (where he could still be "the man").

Nique was close to finished at the time he was traded and definately past his prime. I grew up a Nique fan, not a Jordan fan but I'm not blind to reality or truth either.

[Atlantaholic]

Quote:

---

only to find out... that his reputation as the Landlord...only worked against college students...

---

WTF?! Isn't that why NBA teams have professional scouts? so that you don't have to base your decision based on reputation?? There is only one franchise in all of the NBA that would have picked Shelden at 5... really, only ONE. The same team that hasn't made the playoffs in a decade. BK and Isiah Thomas are in a class all to themselves in regards to the worst GM's in the league.

Oh.. and I would trade Shelden for Sene straight up any day of the freaking weak, over and over. There's only like four players worse than Shelden that were picked in the entire first round... What an absolute debacle of a pick, anybody defending it on any level is freaking kidding themselves... and Northcyde defending the pick over Roy... OVER ROY HAHAHAHAHA!!! Wow, I've never seen delusion so thick in all of my life... To me passing on Roy was 100 times more bone headed than passing on Paul... At least people had Marvin rated higher for the most part... Absolutely nobody in the Universe had Shelden over Roy... several sites had him ranked outside the top 10... what a freaking joke.

[mrhonline]

My problem has never been so much with passing on Roy, as it was with not trading the pick for a veteran to help JJ and the youth immediately.

[Atlantaholic]

We've had opportunities all throughout the last four years to bring in veteran help... (we opted for Zaza, Lo, Tyronne Lue, and Speedy)

The chance to pick a player the caliber of Roy is a more absurd missed chance than failing to get good veteran help. Even coming out of college everybody had him projected as a guy who could give you, at worst, 16 points and solid defense and ball handling. In his second year he is already playing like a 6 year vet - The guy has arguably as much value as Chauncey Billups, Tony Parker, and Calderon... Instead we got Shelden... one of the least valuable players in all of the league.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Quote:

---

That is popular opinion in the local ATL area but it is dead wrong.

We traded Nique at the perfect time (like with Mookie). Look how his production fell off after we traded him. One thing about Kasten and Babcock is that they would not keep overpaid players around just as sentimental favorites.

---

We traded Nique because Babcock was afraid that he'd lose Nique for nothing. Nique was seeking a big money extension, but Babs didn't want to give him one.

What was happening to Nique, was that his shooting was becoming very erratic and he was quickly losing his athleticism.

I specifically remember a game the Hawks played aganst the Knicks, in which Nique was flat out horrble in. He was forcing evrything, not passing, and not playing good defense at all.

I think it was on TNT back when TNT was the eqivalent of SportSouth. I forget who it was, but the color commetator said that Nique was playing "schoolyard" basketball. That was easly the worst game I'd ever seen him play. Nique hadn't lost his skill, but he was trying to adjust his game to compensate for his lost athleticism.

That team was a DOMINANT home team, and Nique was the only guy on the squad that was capable of scoring 30 points at any given time. In the playoffs, you need a guy like that.

When he went to the Clippers, he actually played well. And when the Hawks went out there, of couse he killed us.

But once the Hawks got to the playoffs, the ish hit the fan with Manning. He as exposed as being the complimentary player that he truly was. He had a few horrible playoff games and we had no one to carry the squad offensively. That "team ball" concept will only carry you so far in the NBA. If you play team ball, you better have at least one guy capable of having an explosive game.

We were the #1 seed in the East that year. It was our best chance to win a title, especially since Jordan wasn't in the league. It was Nique's best chance to win a title.

And that mo-fo Babcock traded away the only guy that could possibly put the team on his back during a playoff series. Nique might have been motivated more than ever, to try to take this team to the Finals, with no Jordan in the picture. He screwed us, and he screwed the franchise best ever player.

Instead, the damn Miami Heat takes us to the full 5 games in the first round, and Indy wipes the floor with us in Rd 2.

But the final act of humiliation was when Manning, who was also an unrestricted free agent, turns down a deal with us, and signs a 1-year deal just to play in Phoenix.

So guess what coach?

WE STILL LOST NIQUE FOR NOTHING !!!

Thanks a lot coach. You got me crunk as hell right now, just thinking about that ish.

Hawks . . . pleeeeease beat Phoenix tonight.

See for your self:

http://www.nba.com/history/players/wilkins_stats.html

At the time we traded Nique he was shooting his carrer low FG% of .430. In the past he was a 45% to 48% on his FGs. The season after we traded Nique, his scoring dropped from 26 ppg to 17 ppg and his FG % dropped to his career low (at that time) 42%. Two season after the trade his FG % was down to 41%. Three seasons after the trade he was off to Europe (where he could still be "the man").

Nique was close to finished at the time he was traded and definately past his prime. I grew up a Nique fan, not a Jordan fan but I'm not blind to reality or truth either.

---

[Atlantaholic]

I agree with you on this one Northcyde... the Nique deal was definitely the disaster that people make it out to be... Perhaps trading him was not a HUGE mistake... but getting Manning, out of all the players we could have gotten, certainly, without question, was a catastrophe.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Damn, i got so mad thinking about that ish, that I forgot to delete the rest of Coach's post, starting with his "see for yourself" post link. All of that ish after me pleading with the Hawks to win tonight, are his thougts, not mine.

(( bleepin )) Babcock!