Roy would be a HUGE part of this team

gsuteke · January 28, 2008

Quote:

...that will tell you I wanted Roy over any of the remaining prospects on the board at 5.

Given that Roy is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SW, I'd think you'd want this conversation stopped. This is your

last chance

or your idiocy will be sprayed all over HS like a tomcat's scent.

Get it? Last Chance.

W

I'm getting a headache.

I give up on the Squawk. I can't read this sh!t every day and stay relatively sane.

ATL_BALLER · January 28, 2008

...a "servicable backup" with the 5th pick in the draft - period!

ATL_BALLER · January 28, 2008

Roy is a baller, period - and if we ran uptempo consistently, we'd have Roy making plays, getting looks for others, etc - as well as true PG.

AHF · January 28, 2008

(a) Walt did clearly state that he preferred Roy to anyone in the draft repeatedly prior to the draft. When the subject of the best big man came up, Walt's position was that Sene had the upside to be a dominating center and that it was more worthwhile to gamble on him than to take a role player/non-center in Shelden Williams.

(b) It chopped my hide as much as anything that BK didn't work people out and didn't try to trade down a few spots in the draft.

© I don't blame someone like D for wanting Shelden. He wasn't the one with access to scouting resources, etc. BK is the only one who needs to be called out for picks like this. It is his responsibility.

Jdawgflow · January 28, 2008

Let's not forget we could have also taken Milsap in the 2nd round that year if we had gotten Roy.

Diesel · January 28, 2008

Quote:

Given that Roy is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SW, I'd think you'd want this conversation stopped.

See this is exactly what I mean Walter. You look at the situation with Revisionist goggles. Sure, Roy is better than SW. However, at the time... There wasn't a great outcrying for Roy here on HS.

Now.. for your 25 post about Roy.

I can find about 37 post of yours saying that you want to trade down for Sene...

I can find 32 post of yours saying that Bargain Man is the best player in the draft...

So now that you have gone in several directions.. you get to say you were right?

For everytime you was right, you were wrong 4 other times.

I guess if you flip and flop, eventually you will end up on the right side!

TheNorthCydeRises · January 28, 2008

Diesel, here's a poll idea for you. Ask the Squawk which player they would rather have . . Al Horford or Kevin Durant? Because to me, it's the exact same situation when you look at the Shelden vs Roy argument.

If you add Kevin Durant to this team, and subtract Horford, this i what you have:

PG: AJ / Law / Lue

G: JJ / Chill / Mario

F: Marvin / Durant

F: Smoove / Shelden

C: Zaza / Lorenzen

That's the 12 we'd go with. So look at the situation.

- Once again, whether people like it or not, Marvin STILL starts at the 3, especially seeing how weak Durant is right now. And maybe because of the mandate you say to play Marvin, no matter what.

- Lo and Shelden would have to be Major contributors every night.

- Zaza would have to get major PT, regardless of how he's playing.

- Chill would probably be the casualty, even if Chill was outplaying him.

While the media, and most Hawk fans would've loved the pick, the frontline would be under the gun every single night. And God forbid if Smoove ever got in foul trouble. We'd be an excitng team to watch, but the interior issues would be worse than ever.

In one instance, the fan base wants to build the team "the right way". In other instances, they want to build an NBA Live-like team, where you could play Smoove 35 minutes a night @ center, with Marvin at the PF, JJ at the 3, Durant at the 2, and Chill at the 1 also playing 35 minutes.

Then what would we have to do? We'd have to trade somebody just to balance out the roster. We would need to trade for a big. LOL . . people would want Gasol more than ever now. But you can't give up Smoove in that situation to get Gasol. The cry would be to trade Marvin, even if he's better than Durant at the time. People would cite Durant's "potential".

So what do you do Hawksquawk? What do you do?

- Do you take the best big in the draft, to help the frontline, even if he's not a dynamic scorer?

- Or do you take the guy that most says has the most talent in the draft, even though you already have talent stockpiled at that positon?

January 28, 2008

Quote:

Sure

, Roy is better than SW.

You say it as if anybody should have known this at the time. Actually, anybody should have known this at the time and I said so.

Quote:

However, at the time... There wasn't a great outcrying for Roy here on HS.

Three things. First, the poll didn't reflect the reality of the situation. Even I wouldn't have picked Roy over Aldridge or Bargnani! When faced with REALITY, SW, Roy, or Foy, the sane wouldn't pick SW. For a time even KB had to agree with me until he realized that unlike he suggested BK really would pick a loser like SW. We all know how KB can't go against anything BK.

Second, too many people fall for BS at HS (much like many other message boards). I don't know why people would let the rumor that BK had promised SW sway them but that stuff does because people want to believe that BK knows something we don't and will get it right despite his historic record of incompetence and their gut that tells them he is (again) wrong. People want to believe and BK isn't dumb enough not to use that against them.

Third, I got it right despite...do I need to continue.

Quote:

I can find about 37 post of yours saying that you want to trade down for Sene...

Diesel, a challenge to you. Find ONE post in which I said I'd take Sene over Roy.

As far as Sene, I'd still trade down and take a flyer on him as an NBA center over SW at pick 5. That has always been and remains my position. Sene at least HAS upside. If you think SW an NBA center you need to be hit upside the head.

Quote:

I can find 32 post of yours saying that Bargain Man is the best player in the draft...

Maybe 10. I also thought Aldridge the 2nd best. Roy the 3rd best. At least I didn't put SW ANYWHERE NEAR MY TOP 10! Bargnani will be very good in 2 years. Not a great fit in Toronto with Bosh at Pf, though.

W

January 28, 2008

Quote:

That's the 12 we'd go with. So look at the situation.

Why is that the 12 we go with? I think that EVERYONE who wanted Durant would have trade MW for a center yesterday. And we'd be better off for it.

W

TheNorthCydeRises · January 28, 2008

Quote:

That's the 12 we'd go with. So look at the situation.

Why is that the 12 we go with? I think that EVERYONE who wanted Durant would have trade MW for a center yesterday. And we'd be better off for it.

W

And who the hell do we get in return, Walt? Kupchak woudn't even trade Bynum for Jason Kidd. The only way Memphis trades Gasol to us for Marvin, if they got the #3 spot to take Horford. Even then, they may not trade Gasol before they see how he and Horford meshed.

Hawk fans devaulue Marvin on a daily basis, but thinks the entire league fiends for him? That's not reality.

Who is your center Walt?

If you've noticed, this league doesn't like to trade marginal centers, let alone good ones. Who do you go get in a trade that BOTH teams would legitimately do? A lot of the trades that you, I, or anybody else post on here, are so one-sided toward us, that the other team wouldn't possibly do it.

And welcome back. I see it took a collapse @ Portland to get you back to your old self.

Diesel · January 28, 2008

Quote:

Sure

, Roy is better than SW.

You say it as if anybody should have known this at the time. Actually, anybody should have known this at the time and I said so.

See. Again. Even you proposed (several times) that we trade down for SENE. IF Roy was your main and anybody should have known this... WHY would you make proposals and defenses for Sene?

Is it because we needed low post defense.

Diesel · January 28, 2008

Quote:

I can find about 37 post of yours saying that you want to trade down for Sene...

Diesel, a challenge to you. Find ONE post in which I said I'd take Sene over Roy.

I've done this earlier today.. but since you asked... let me show you again...

You said...

Quote:

I see 2 ideal Hawks options & neither include

Posted: 06/21/06 07:34 PM

...staying put.

1) The Hawks realizing they need and still lack a superstar, get the 7' super-skilled 19 y/o player with the biggest upside and most potential in Bargnani by trading up (i.e. #5 pick, Childress, and 2nd rder for Portland's #4 pick - if Barg. falls to there - and Portland's choice of Pg prospect between Jack and Telfair).

2) The Hawks, realizing that with a trade down to 12 and 15 (potentially a second trade with Seattle to move up 2 or 5 and have the 10th pick) they could get Marcus Williams and either O'Bryant or Sene, prefer to get a proven Pg and project center potentially filling two positional and skill (interior defense and team leader) needs in one draft. They wait to make such a move when Marcus Williams is available at 12 if both center prospects are available, perhaps making it with another Pg prospect in mind.

Staying at 5 or draft Shelden, while it somewhat addresses interior defense (remember Shelden got scored on quite a bit at Duke) doesn't solve a positional problem (what #2 does in spades) and doesn't reduce the need for superstar potential (what #1 does in spades).

Should we stay and Aldridge or Roy is available that is passable. Still the ideals are 1 & 2 as I see them.

I've been teasing you about Passable all day. However, notice... that in this last sentence, you said... STILL the ideals are 1 and 2.

In other words, that you saying that you would have rather passed up Roy in other to take Marcus Williams and Obryant OR Sene...

The fact that you called getting Roy is passable... Is funny to me.

Passable is how I feel about Brussel Sprouts... when I have steak on my plate... Sure, it's a vegetable and I will eat it... But it's not my first choice.

Passable as defined by dictionary.com

Quote:

Satisfactory but not outstanding; adequate:

The actors gave passable performances but the singers seemed unrehearsed.

Getting Brandon Roy = merely adequate...

LastDon · January 28, 2008

Many seem to forget that Roy wouldn't even work out for the hawks. So I can understand BK's rationale for not drafting him!!!!

gsuteke · January 29, 2008

Here's some drive by ownage for ya ATL_Baller