Trade rumors are swirling, again

[mrhonline]

http://feedback.woai.com/ubb/ultimatebb.ph...c;f=33;t=016628

In reply to:

---

Dusty Garza

Member # 2

posted 07-22-2003 02:57 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks.

Want another bit?

Some say that fourth team could be Atlanta.

Stay tuned.

--Dusty

---

Dusty is an L.A. reporter who follows the Spurs closely...

[Guest]

What's the trade?

[Diesel]

I keep hearing about a trade between the Knicks, Philly, Spurs, and Atlanta (possibly). It's supposed to be the Knicks getting Van Horn, the Spurs getting Spreewell and Less is known after that.

From what's been Said, San Antonio will not give up Rose...

So, really there's no deal to talk about.

Now if the Spurs we discluded, that would mean:

Atlanta send Grob to Philly. Van Horn goes to NY. Atlanta gets Spreewell.

Next season we open with:

JT/Spreewell/Diaw/SAR/Theo.

But Spreewell is really not that attractive. He's a Speed SG who has lost his speed and his shot has always been streaky.

[jezmund]

I'd rather have Spree than Glenn Robinson, I must say. Theo might be more inclined to stay as well. Although Spree has lost a step, he is still 10X quicker than Robinson. He has better handles than Grob as well. Than we sign Darrell Armstrong and move JT for a solid, young SF if JT's contract demands are anywhere near that of Arenas. What Arenas is getting shocks me. 1 good season gets you 65M? The NBA is joke.

[Diesel]

Grob Scores more than Spree.

Rebounds Better than Spree.

And is just better than Spree Period. Spree's decesion is here. He's falling and I don't see him being that productive. Plus, ballhandling from the SG position is supposed to help us. Give the SF position a chance with a scorer in there.

[jezmund]

I agree Spree is/has been on the decline for the last few years. But I think you overrate Grob a little as well. From what I saw this season, he brings nothing more than a jumpshot. When he is on, it's a beautiful thing to watch, but he is not, it is horrid. I just think Spree has more to offer from a team concept point of view.

[jezmund]

I was thinking, if we were to move JT for a SF, about a player like Al Harrington.

Armstrong/Sprewell/Harrington/SAR/Theo?

[Playmaker0017]

Diesel,

"Grob Scores more than Spree.

Rebounds Better than Spree.

And is just better than Spree Period. Spree's decesion is here. He's falling and I don't see him being that productive. Plus, ballhandling from the SG position is supposed to help us. Give the SF position a chance with a scorer in there. "

GRob turns it over more than a two year old dribbling in the NBA.

GRob rebounds are not due to hustle.

GRob passes worse than a gatorade bottle.

GRob hustles as much as a tree.

GRob defends as well as an ant defending an oncoming elephant.

He may have some things Spree doesn't have, but there is no way I wouldn't let him go for Spree. Spree is quicker, a better passer, a better defender and doesn't put the ball up so many times that it doesn't fit on a stat line.

You are the only one that sees any hope in the scrub that is Big Loaf.

Play.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

GRob turns it over more than a two year old dribbling in the NBA.

GRob rebounds are not due to hustle.

GRob passes worse than a gatorade bottle.

GRob hustles as much as a tree.

GRob defends as well as an ant defending an oncoming elephant.

---

Are you familiar with Basketball??

Rebounding is a HUSTLE Stat.... In fact, it's an artform. Ask Theo how easy it is to rebound. What you are saying is that somehow, the ball just falls into Grob's hand ~7 times a game?

[censored], that's amazing.

[censored], if he hustled, he might pull down 14 boards a game with his amazing power to call the ball to his hand.

Point taken about Defense. However, if you question Grob's defense, you must question JT's and SAR's too. The point is play that Grob did what we brought him in to do.

We didn't bring him in to be a Point Forward.

We didn't bring him in to be a defensive Standout.

We didn't bring him in to be a Team Mascot.

We didn't bring him in to sell refreshments at the snack machine.

We didn't bring him in to be a Hawks dancer.

We didn't bring him in to be Coach on the floor.

We brought him in to be a second scorer so that everyone wouldn't focus on REEF.

Now, you and others here have a campaign against Grob for things we didn't bring him in for.

However, you overlook the stat of our PG and miss that we have been running HS plays in the NBA because Our PG doesn't know how to run a complex offense. Or that our PG defers to the first Person he sees which normally leads to TURNOVER.

Since you were so interested in researching Grob, what was his T.O. when he played in Milwaukee? Why do you think they skyrocketed?

Now, this is fun... Look at Reef's T.O. 2 years ago and 3 years ago... That's with JT vs. With Bibby...

Do you see a pattern here?

You are so QUICK to point at Big Dog and Call him Rider... BUt The truth is that he works hard. He practices Hard. He is well liked by his teammates....

[jezmund]

.....but I feel they do a lot more for our team than Grob. Grob is a lazya$$. He just looks like he doesn't want to be out there when he plays. I don't want those kind of players on our team. I'd even be up for a SAR deal if I felt like we got fair value in return. I have no problem blowing this team up if I had control. Yes, chemistry is probably the most important attribute in basketball but just because these guys play together doesn't mean they are going to gain chemistry. They have to want it and work for it, it doesn't just happen.

You say we brought Robinson in to be a scorer which I understand. The problem with that is it seems that in order for him to put up 20 ppg, he has to disrupt the flow of the offense. I'd rather get 5 pgg from this guy and 7 pgg from this guy off the bench to get our 90+ ppg or whatnot than to have to pass to this turnover machine over and over again.

[Playmaker0017]

Diesel,

Yes, I know the sport of basketball. Yes, I call Big Loafs rebounding unHUSTLE statistics. Theo didn't rebound much for a couple reasons - he isn't intent on getting them AND he is usually covering Big Loaf's man once he drove past his royal loafness. Thus, Big Load just gets an easy rebound.

The majority of his rebounds come from loafing around. At least 1 to 2 a game come from missed free throws. Further, he has never played on a team with a true rebounder. If he had, this stat would dwindle rapidly.

But, this is moot anyhow. You point out stats, which I cannot discredit. But, I do not believe he is a good rebounder, because he has no desire.

I am sure I speak for everyone when I point out that I didn't know that Big Load couldn't dribble two feet without confusing himself and causing every fans' heart to skip a beat. I mean, it is almost more exciting to watch Big Load dribble as it is the game. Heck, you could make a drinking game out of it!

No one brought Big Load in to "NOT PLAY A LICK OF DEFENSE" nor did they bring him in to "DRIBBLE THE BALL OFF OF HIS KNEE" nor did we bring him in to "TRY TO BE THE MAIN FOCUS OF THE OFFENSE".

What does Reef's turnover's have to do with Big Load? I found that this year, Reef was much more effective at passing the ball. This had little to do with the presence of the stone statue aka Big Loaf.

Play.

[capstone21]

I don't like that because our team is getting old very quickly. I like D. Armstrong but not as our starting PG. I would like him to come in as a bench player who can be a mentor to our other young talent.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

You say we brought Robinson in to be a scorer which I understand. The problem with that is it seems that in order for him to put up 20 ppg, he has to disrupt the flow of the offense.

---

Here again is one of the main problems.... You say That Grob disrupts the flow... However, the flow is maintained and set by the PG. If JT crosses halfcourt and his first pass is to Grob or with Time running down he throws it to Grob, guess what, Grob will do what he can to score. Partially at fault is bad coaching. Lon allowed Sandlot basketball because he didn't understand how to coach on this level. In order words, our whole team lacked discipline. Watch our games closely. A lot of times, JT is being a Sandlot PG. He's always looking to go one on one because that's his game. We lacked discipline so it will seem like another player trying to score is disrupting the flow of the offense. While the truth of the matter is our offense had no flow. For most of the year, we were playing without a gameplan. In that instance, every player goes for self.

[Diesel]

In reply to:

---

The majority of his rebounds come from loafing around. At least 1 to 2 a game come from missed free throws. Further, he has never played on a team with a true rebounder. If he had, this stat would dwindle rapidly.

But, this is moot anyhow. You point out stats, which I cannot discredit. But, I do not believe he is a good rebounder, because he has no desire.

---

OK... Stop it, my side is hurting...

You say he gets his rebounds by loafing...Sadly, he's like a career 6-7 rpg player.. DO you know how hard that is to do at SF? I mean, basically right now only 2-3 Sfs even top those numbers....

Shawn Marion. Rashard Lewis. And Maybe KG if you call him a SF.

OK, let's say he is loafing and geting 7 rpg. What do you think happens when we get a real coach in here who can put a fire to Big Dog's Butt. Someone like Fratello or Carlisle. [censored], Big Dog could be a 21/11 SF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Especially if he is desireless, Loafing and pulling down 7 boards. I'd hate to see what happens when he concentrates on rebounding. He'd put Rodman to shame.

In reply to:

---

No one brought Big Load in to "NOT PLAY A LICK OF DEFENSE" nor did they bring him in to "DRIBBLE THE BALL OFF OF HIS KNEE" nor did we bring him in to "TRY TO BE THE MAIN FOCUS OF THE OFFENSE".

---

Actually, in a way, we did bring him in to play not a lick of defense. In fact, if you go through the archives at the time of the trade, it was mentioned time and time again about Big Dog's Lack luster defense.. and the response was....

"Well, Big Dog and Toni are a wash defensively. Plus Big Dog can be counted on more than Toni".

But even more than that. We knew that Big Dog was another weak defense player. I stated time and time again last year that Theo will not make this team better by himself. Check the record. He's just one defensive piece. BY himself, he's a penalty waiting to happen. I urged and still urge that we play Zone to hide the weaknesses of our players on defense. It's the only smart thing to do. Grob is not alone... he's just the biggest target. JT plays his own brand of listless Olay defense. He's the one who they say allows other gaurds to penetrate and cause Theo problems. I dare you to really watch a game. WHile JT is supposedly playing the passing lanes, his man is blowing passed him. I'm not talking about great PGs either, I'm talking about guys like Troy Hudson and Gilbert Arenas. Arenas is definitely going to have to give Terry a Kickback for making him look so good.

[cyman3]

I could careless if GROB scored 30 ppg, 10 rpg, 8 apg, 1 bpg, 1spg.... but if hes not working with the rest of the team and the REST OF THE TEAM ARE SKILLED PLAYERS THAT COULD BE POTENTIAL ALLSTARS (JT/REEF/RATLIFF), i rather get rid of him instead of all JT/REEF/RATLIFF.

Yes i read the comment where Ratliff says our GUARDS arent holding their ground. But he did call out ROBINSONS name. Obviously that means Robinson is problem number 1 on defense, and guards number 2.

If we could get rid of GROB for a guy that scores 12 ppg, 4 rpg, 4 apg and we start winnin with this guy.... im all for it.

In other words- if u guys think we are better off with SPREWELL (chemistry wise) than ROBINSON, make the trade.

----------------------------------------------------------

Okay, yes Diesel i know what ur gonna say. "We didnt bring Grob here to play defense.... thats like bringing in Ben Wallace to score 20 ppg"

nobody in Detroit is complaining about Wallaces "LIMITED" game. his teammates love him and chemistry is working. but the chemistry isint working here. if u want to keep GROB then heres what u gotta do

1)keep comin with them JT trades

2)Shareef is a #1 option type player so go ahead and give him to Miami since he cant be #1 option w/ GROB

3)Ratliff wants out then, so trade him as well

4)Surround GROB with players he can work with.

Now, would that be easier or just trading GROB be easier?

[Playmaker0017]

Thank you Cyman.

[Guest]

People on this board always cite Theo's low board numbers, and SAR's low board numbers, and GRob's well above average boards...and then go off on some tangent, forgetting to note that, as has been posted on occassion, that we were one of the better rebounding teams in the L this past season....

then they criticize people for looking at individual stats.

As far as boards go...as long as someone gets them on the team, it hurts the other front court players' numbers...but as long as our team numbers are quite solid, stop complaining.

[jjjohns3]

Not neccesarily Diesel.........Alot of rebounds fall to players unexpectedly,alot more than you think. I'm not saying GRob is a bad rebounder,but he does grab 1-2 non-hustle rebounds a game.

~Peace

[KB21]

......The Hawks had the 8th best opponent's FG% , yet, all some can harp on is how terrible Glenn, Jason, and Shareef are defensively.

Truth be told, none of them can probably stop their man one on one, but they certainly got a lot better as a team when Terry Stotts took over. Guess what? No matter how many people want to try to make it a one on one game, basketball is a team sport.