ESPN says Billy King is a strong candidate

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I think the thing is that a lot of Hawks fans have been listening to the bitching of the 76er fans.

You guys have persuaded me that I have taken King's criticism from Sixers fans and the media to heart too much and that he is likely a better GM than I gave him credit for. Still wouldn't be my first choice but at least it is more encouraging after reviewing some of the things he did correctly in addition to the well-known bad contracts.

Given our ownership situation we aren't exactly in the position to be picky.

[atlien]

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We are debating the wrong thing. The bigger question is why is the GM list starting with Billy King? Shouldn't you shoot a little higher? And why is the hell is Woodson still here?

I agree with this.

Im not saying Billy King is the worst GM ever (he`s definitely not in the top 50% tho), but if he`s the guy we START with, we got problems fellas. I think we could try to shoot just a tad bit higher, no? I mean, first choice Billy King. Come on! Let`s at least get turned down from some better candidates first.

[thescout5]

I was looking at King's team he built, he became GM in 2000 according to the profile and look at the link for the stats to what kind of team he has built.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?team=phi

In my opinion that's all he has done since 2000,Miller and Iggy are the core of the team? Dalembert was signed to a horrible contract and the rest of the players like Young and Williams while young haven't proved they are anything except role players. I am sorry but I don't see the fascination with King he is another overvalued GM. A GM like Kiki Vandeweighe or someone else look at teams that have quality players. Whose the assistant for San Antonio, Lakers,Phoenix you have to look at teams that have talent besides one superstar. Phoenix drafts low most yrs but look at the team they have built. Winning organizations produce mostly quality candidates. Woody came from Detroit but has we see isn't ready to be a head coach.

If King is the selection then he'll be another GM in the line of Babcock and BK a failure. I don't see that much talent on Philly who has he been drafting since 2000? There has to be someone better than King. Just because King has a link to Woody shouldn't mean the Hawk's have 2 underperforming key management personel.

The Hawk's ownership better look hard and find the best quality GM they can find after all has we see with BK and King they seem to keep their jobs for 5-6 yrs while the team goes through coach after coach and the GM doesn't take the hit. It starts with the GM he finds the players and finds the coach therefore if doesn't get it right he should be the one ownership comes down on.

[Seano]

ESPN says Billy King is a strong candidate

LOL. Out of the frying pan and into the fire. Aye caramba.

[Seano]

Billy King was one of the 'stars' of Bill Simmons First-annual Atrocious GM Summit, the funniest piece of basketball writing I have ever read in my life. I apologize for the length of this. Feel free to move it or delete it if you want. I just couldn't resist, it's a classic. This is the piece that drove Isiah ballistic to the point of threatening Simmons with bodily harm if ever their paths should cross. Great stuff. I'm going to miss the craziness that is Isiah Thomas.

ESPN Page 2

When we were in Houston for All-Star Weekend, one of the marquee events was the annual Technology Summit at the Houstonian, featuring celebrities such as Mark Cuban, David Stern, George Bodenheimer, Magic Johnson, Charles Barkley and Anderson Cooper. Little was made of another gathering: The first-annual Atrocious GM Summit, held Sunday morning at the La Quinta Inn.

Our dream panel included Philadelphia's Billy King; former Raptors GM Rob Babcock; Lakers GM Mitch Kupchak; former Knicks GM Scott Layden; former Cavs GM Jim Paxson; Minnesota's Kevin McHale; former Orlando GM John Weisbrod; and, of course, Isiah Thomas of the New York Knicks. Sadly, Wes Unseld was unable to make it after he accidentally traded his first-class Delta Airlines ticket to Houston for three Southwest Airlines tickets to Atlanta.

(Note: We were going to invite Elgin Baylor, but he was ruled ineligible for the discussion after pulling off the Cassell-Jaric and Radmanovic-Wilcox heists. That's not the Elgin we once knew and loved. Come back to us, Elg.)

Of course, when the NBA asked me to moderate this discussion, I couldn't have been prouder. Here's a transcript of what happened:

Simmons: Guys, first of all, thanks for joining us today, it's an absolute honor to be here.

King: Just remember, if you do a good job for the next two hours, I'll give you a $25 million contract for six years!

(Everyone laughs.)

Simmons: Jim Paxson, let's start with you. Last February, you traded a 2007 first-round pick to Boston for Jiri Welsch. Four months later, after you were fired by the Cavs, they traded Welsch to Milwaukee for a 2006 second round pick. To my knowledge, that's never happened before. Walk us through that.

Paxson: Absolutely. When you're making a bad trade, there are some inherent elements that need to be there. First, are you putting your own short-term interests ahead of the long-term interests of the team? With the Welsch trade, there were rumors I might get fired, and we needed another body to make the playoffs … really, why would I care about protecting future No. 1 picks if I was probably getting canned?

McHale: Hear hear! I don't think we have a first-round pick until 2017. And I might trade that one this week.

Paxson: See, Kevin knows what I'm talking about here. The second element: Are you rolling the dice with someone with "potential," who has never contributed to a winning team? Jiri had bounced around the league and couldn't even crack Doc Rivers' regular rotation -- and Doc uses 11 guys a night. So that was in place. Third, and most important, are your fans going to be outraged when they hear about the trade and say things like, "What the hell?" and "How can we stop this guy, he's a menace?" That was there, too. And that's what made the trade so appealing. It's not often you can trade for someone who's worth half as much four months later.

Along those same lines, we aren't just trying to upset our fans, we're trying to confuse them. For instance, three years ago, I gave Kevin Ollie $15 million over five years. Now, he's a below-average guard with no real skills -- if you rated a point guard in eight different categories, he's probably a C-minus or below in each of them. If you're a Cavs fan, how are you supposed to react to that contract? Complete confusion, right? Well, those are good reactions. At least your fans are discussing the team. If the fans are talking about you, it doesn't matter if it's good or bad, at least they're talking.

Layden: And there's another element here, Jim: You want the fans to feel like they could do a better job than you. When I was in New York, every Knicks fan thought they could do better than me. Every one of them. And they were probably right. Well, you know what that really means? There's a small piece inside of them that says, "If this schmuck can run the Knicks, maybe some day, I can run the Knicks." And once they think that, you have them for life. Those are the people who keep buying tickets and jerseys and hats.

Simmons: Mitch, when you took over the Lakers, you had the best two players in the league and could have won 10 straight titles with the right moves. Instead, you couldn't get it done. Then you traded Shaq for 30 cents on the dollar; you gave cap-killing contracts to run-of-the-mill guys like Chris Mihm and Devean George; you blew all of your draft picks; you wasted the next three to four years of Kobe's prime by drafting a high school center over someone like Danny Granger, who could have helped right away; and then, you outdid yourself by trading Caron Butler and Chucky Atkins' useful expiring contract for Kwame Brown. But the Shaq-Kobe saga overshadowed everything; you haven't gotten enough credit for being a complete debacle. Does that bother you?

Kupchak: I'd be lying if I said it didn't. When we made the Kwame trade, I was thinking to myself, "This is it, this is the one, now maybe people will start talking about me." Well, it didn't happen. Then the season starts, and Kwame's just a complete stiff … still, nothing. Then Phil [Jackson] goes on the record and calls Kwame a "p----." Nothing. People in Los Angeles just don't care. When you look at what I've done in L.A., it's amazing, really. I traded the best center in the history of basketball 19 months ago, and all we have to show for it is an unhappy Lamar Odom, Kwame and Brian Grant's eight-figure buyout. And yet, nobody mentions me. No offense, Isiah, but you don't realize how lucky you are -- when you screw up, everyone goes crazy. I built a team in which Smush Parker is our third-best player and the 10th-best guy on the Clippers would play 40 minutes a night for us -- yet does anyone ever talk about me? Of course not. It pisses me off.

Thomas: And that's one of the reasons I wanted to work for the Knicks. When I screwed up in Toronto, nobody cared. When I ran the CBA into the ground, nobody cared. When I coached the Pacers and lost a series to Boston in which we had 10 of the best 12 players, nobody cared. In New York, they care. Right now, I'm working on a trade with Orlando where we give up Penny Hardaway's expiring deal and Trevor Ariza for Steve Francis. It's an illogical trade in every respect -- Francis' contract is terrible, there's no way he'll mesh with the other guys, he's never won anything, he gives us the same problems that Marbury gives us, it's a disaster right out of the gate. And that's what makes it so great. When we pull this trade off, New York fans might actually riot. I'm not kidding.

Kupchak: Sure, Isiah, rub it in.

(Everyone laughs.)

Simmons: Isiah, don't you think you're almost too obvious at this point? At least we could see both sides with some of Mitch's moves. In your case …

(Editor's note: Over the next 30 minutes, Simmons proceeded to list all of Isiah's terrible decisions since he took over the team in December 2003, in chronological order, as the crowd voraciously applauded each move, almost like how the president gets applauded over and over again during the State of the Union address. For space reasons, we're skipping to the tail end of Simmons' question.)

Thanks to all of those moves, the Knicks have more untradable contracts than everyone else in the league combined; they won't be under the cap until 2009; they have a payroll that's $50 million higher than anyone else; and they won't have a high lottery pick until 2008 because of the Curry trade. So how can you sell this as a rebuilding effort when you don't have any picks, and how can you sell this as a move to contend when none of the current guys could possibly mesh?

Isiah: That's an excellent question. The key is to make people believe you're trying something that's never been done before. In my case, I always try to acquire the best guy in the trade, regardless of whether it's a good deal or not -- then I can say I'm "stockpiling assets," which throws people off the trail a little bit. Then, I like to float big names to reporters … like right now, I'm making it seem like KG is a possibility for us, and that's why I'm gathering all of these assets. But I don't have a chance in hell of getting KG. If Minnesota trades KG, it's going to be for cap space, picks and young players, and we can't give them two of those three things. So they would never deal with us ---.

McHale: I wouldn't be so sure about that!

Isiah: Really?

McHale: Have you seen some of the moves I have made? Name another GM who cost his team three first-round picks because he wanted to sign someone like Joe Smith to a max contract under the table! Name me another GM who would have willingly traded for Mark Blount, or given huge contracts to Marko Jaric and Troy Hudson, or signed sketchy character guys like Michael Olowokandi and Eddie Griffin! You don't think I would give KG away in a terrible trade? You're crazy! I resent that!

Isiah: I didn't mean to offend you-.

McHale: Well you did!

Simmons: Kevin, let's talk about the Joe Smith debacle. What delighted me wasn't how you lost the picks, but that you were ready to give a max contract to the likes of Joe Smith. Does it hurt your feelings that nobody remembers how dumb this was?

McHale: Of course, of course. At the time, Joe was a guy who gave you 13 points and eight rebounds a game -- solid, but not spectacular. We were willing to pay him twice as much as he was worth, we cheated, we got caught, we lost all those picks … and you never hear this mentioned. If we were a big-market team? Different story.

Babcock: I have to disagree with that -- I think everyone can agree that I made the worst trade of the past 10 years.

Simmons: The Vince Carter trade?

Babcock: Right. I gave him away to the Nets. Gave him away. And I'm known for that now -- it didn't matter that I was working for Toronto. So you can have a negative impact on a small-market team, I think.

(The crowd applauds.)

Simmons: Let's talk about that trade, Rob. Walk us through your thought process.

Babcock: When you're trading an unhappy superstar, like Isiah said before, you have to get one of three things back: Cap space, draft picks or young stars. Or else your fans will flip out. Especially if the guy immediately starts playing hard again, which was a mortal lock in Vince's case, because he was clearly tanking it for us. Anyway, my goal was to trade Vince without getting cap space, draft picks or another young star -- that's what would have made it the worst trade of all-time. The problem was that you can't be too obvious with this stuff or the commissioner's office will veto the deal. So what ended up happening was, the Nets gave us two non-lottery picks to save face, but everything else worked out -- not only did we not get a superstar back, we took on three bad contracts, including Alonzo Mourning's deal, which we had to buy out. So instead of getting cap space back, the trade hurt our cap space. I was more proud of that than anything.

Weisbrod: You know, I loved that trade, but I loved the Rafael Araujo pick even more.

Babcock: Thanks!

Weisbrod: Passing up Andre Iguodala for a 24 year-old center who averaged 0.1 blocks per game in college and runs like a duck … I just thought that was brilliant.

Babcock: Well, you hope with these things, but you never sure how they'll work out until they happen.

Simmons: Let's talk about the draft, guys. What are some strategies there? Worst guy available? Taking someone at a position where you already have someone?

King: See, that's where you're wrong. It's always better to make good picks in the draft -- this way, your fans can become attached to them, then you can trade them for inferior guys with bad contracts. Plus, it throws the media off your scent a little bit. I would much rather draft a decent guy, then trade him down the road, or overpay him with a crazy contract that makes no sense or kills my cap space. If you're openly tanking draft picks, it's too obvious.

Thomas: I agree, Billy. If you look at what I've done over the years, I always drafted well: Stoudamire, T-Mac, Camby, Frye, Ariza … you want to stockpile as many assets as possible, only because it gives you more options to do something dumb.

Babcock: I couldn't agree more. That's the single-biggest mistake I made with the Araujo pick. In retrospect, I should have taken Igoudala, kept him for a year, then traded him last summer for Joel Przybilla and immediately given him an $85 million contract extension. Oh, well. You live and you learn.

McHale: I'm kicking myself right now … I wish someone had told me this before I drafted Ndudi Ebi and William Avery!

(Everyone laughs.)

Simmons: So if you don't want to kill your team with bad drafting, what other recourses are there besides trades?

Thomas: Keep changing the roster -- you don't want any semblance of continuity. Once guys get used to playing with one another, they might start winning. Look at the teams that have done well over the last 25 years -- it's always been the teams that built around a nucleus. I even played for one in Detroit. That's why I like to keep mixing things up every six to seven weeks. Why chance it?

King: I'm also a big fan of giving out absurd contracts that tie up your cap space, for three reasons. First, it drives the fans crazy and gets them talking about the team. Second, your fans won't complain that you aren't making any big moves, simply because you can't make any big moves, your lack of cap space prohibits you from getting quality guys unless they have baggage. And third, when people look back and try to put your reign in some sort of historical context, those salary numbers will jump out even more.

Just look at what I've done in Philly: Since we made the 2001 Finals, I gave Mutombo a $68 million extension even though he could have been, like, 48 years old for all we knew. I gave $35.5 million to Aaron McKie. I gave $29 million to Eric Snow. I gave $18 million to Greg Buckner. I gave $40 million to Kenny Thomas and $25 million to Brian Skinner. I gave $25 million to Kyle Korver and $60 million to Sam Dalembert last summer. That's $300 million of contracts to guys who were either on the decline or never that good in the first place. Plus, I traded for other bad contracts, guys like Keith Van Horn, Glenn Robinson, Kevin Ollie, you name it. And then, last February, the pinnacle -- dumping three bad contracts for C-Webb, who everyone thought couldn't be traded because of his contract and because he ran with a limp. Now we have an aging team built around two past-their-prime stars and our cap space is killed through 2008. And we completely wasted Iverson's prime, when he was one of the best players of his generation.

(The crowd applauds.)

King: Thank you. Thank you very much.

Thomas: Billy, if you start getting some heat, there's a way out -- you can sell the situation to your fans by telling them, "Even though these guys are overpaid, they're going to become very valuable in the last year of their contracts as trading chips." Of course, they don't know that the only star players that are ever available are guys like Marbury, Francis, Jalen, Baron Davis, Erick Dampier, Zach Randolph …

(Isiah breaks up laughing.)

Simmons: What about Vince?

Kupchak: That was like the "Perfect Storm," really. You had a very good GM trading with a very bad GM. You had a superstar willing to shame the game of basketball and taint his entire career just to get traded. You had a small market team playing in relative obscurity, in a docile city where the fans really wouldn't revolt beyond a certain degree. I don't think we'll see that again.

Paxson: I agree. In just about every case, if there's an expensive name available on the market, there are strings attached. If there weren't strings attached, why would their team be so anxious to trade them? Fundamentally, it makes no sense. For instance, if I offered you a 2003 Jaguar convertible with 12,000 miles on it for $5,000, then claimed nothing was wrong with the car, would you be a little suspicious? Or would you convince yourself that the car just needed a change of scenery? I don't know why the fans haven't figured this out yet -- name players are usually available for a reason.

Thomas: That's why, as I said before, I like to float out rumors that we're "arming ourselves with assets" to make a run at guys we could never realistically get -- like KG, Kobe or LeBron -- because it gives our fans hope. They think we have a chance at those guys, when the teams that actually have a chance are the Bulls, Clippers, Hornets, Bobcats, Celtics or anyone else with valuable young players and multiple picks. You really think I could get KG this summer for Jalen's contract, Channing Frye, David Lee and a 2012 No. 1 pick? Come on.

McHale: You're doing it again, it's like you're deliberately testing me.

Thomas: Whoops, my bad.

McHale (hushes voice): Wait, Jalen, Frye, Lee and a 2012 pick … would that be an unprotected pick?

Simmons: Guys, guys, wait until after the summit.

Weisbrod: Lemme chime in here … you can always disguise a terrible trade by blaming either the luxury tax or a lack of cap space as your reason, like when the Celtics ended up getting stuck with Vin Baker a few years ago, even though he was practically bringing a flask onto the court with him for the layup lines. But if you have an unhappy superstar, you're better off trying to mend fences with him over dealing him, that's the one thing fans won't forgive.

Simmons: You learned that the hard way with the Tracy McGrady trade, right?

Weisbrod: I sure did. That ended up being your classic three quarters for a dollar trade -- we got Francis, Mobley and Cato for him, or as I liked to call it, "the pu pu platter." For the purposes of destroying a team, it worked fine. But I underestimated how much Orlando fans liked Tracy -- they were just furious with me, I ended up getting death threats and everything.

Layden: Cool!

Weisbrod: Yeah, apparently that was a first for the league.

(Crowd applauds.)

Weisbrod: But I went too far -- you don't want to end up losing your job because of one trade, and that's what happened to me. I have a lot of regrets about the whole thing. I had six or seven more horrible moves in me.

Simmons: What about acquiring guys with personal problems who could potentially screw up your team chemistry? How important is that?

McHale: Oh, it's huge, there's no question. Look at my team right now -- it's like a crazier, more dysfunctional version of the team from "The Fish That Saved Pittsburgh." Crazy is good. Crazy players can throw off the fans because they can say, "Wow, on paper, we look fantastic, the only question is chemistry." But that's the thing -- a good NBA team is 50 percent talent and 50 percent chemistry: Look at Phoenix right now, they're getting it done with two All-Stars and parts that nobody else wanted. How? Chemistry, that's how. On the flip side, if you don't have good chemistry, you're going to lose. Look at my Ricky Davis trade -- we're 4-9 with him, and in 12 of those 13 games, he took more shots than KG. Eventually, they're going to fight to the death. You think I didn't know this when I traded for him?

Thomas: I'm with Kevin -- you can never have enough problem guys. When Vin Baker was bought out by Boston because of his drinking problems, we jumped on him. When Qyntel Woods bounced around because he used to fight pit bulls, we jumped on him. I'm even thinking about having Chris Andersen move in with me -- I want to make sure I'm the first one there when his suspension ends.

(Everyone laughs.)

Simmons: Scott Layden, you were really a pioneer of sorts in terms of screwing up cap space and taking on terrible contracts.

Layden: Why thank you.

Simmons: You traded for cap-killers like Glen Rice, Luc Longley, Travis Knight, Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisley. You gave Allan Houston $100 million when he couldn't have gotten more than $71 million anywhere else. You gave Charlie Ward $28 million. You traded Marcus Camby and a lottery pick that could have been Amare Stoudamire for Antonio McDyess and his bum knee. By the time you got canned, they were a lottery team. Looking back, did you go overboard? Were you too incompetent?

Layden: Oh, absolutely. There's an art to being an atrocious GM -- you can't just destroy a team without leaving any semblance of hope. By the time I got fired, we had one of the highest payrolls in the league and no real assets other than Houston and Sprewell, who weren't even All-Stars. So Knicks fans were depressed, but even worse, they couldn't look at the team and say, "Well, this guy's a name, and we have this guy, and maybe we can trade this guy … " All the hope had been beaten out of them.

To me, that's the beauty of what Isiah has been able to pull off. Casual hoops fans can look at the Knicks' roster and say, "Wow, we have Marbury, Eddy Curry and Jalen Rose?!" Diehard fans can look at the roster and say, "This is just crazy enough that it might work," or "Maybe we can package some of these guys for a superstar." So there's a little bit of hope there, even if it's misguided, ridiculous and inane. When I was there? No hope whatsoever. And that was my biggest mistake.

Simmons: So you like what Isiah has done?

Layden: Hell, yeah. Take the Francis trade, if it happens: Logically, it makes no sense because Francis and Marbury are the same player -- expensive, shoot-first point guards with huge entourages and attitude problems who have never won anything. Even if you're getting Francis for nothing, it still makes no sense on paper.

For example, let's say you spent $3,000 on a living room sofa two years ago that you didn't really like. To make the sofa stand out a little less, you bought a leather chair for $2,200 that doesn't match --.

Simmons: Marbury is the sofa and Jamal Crawford is the chair in this case?

Layden: Precisely. And the room still looks bad. So now, you're on Craigslist and you see that someone is selling another $3,000 sofa for $900 that's almost exactly like the sofa you have. And there's no way you would ever want two big, ugly sofas in the same room. It would just look ridiculous. But your mind-set is, "Hey, how can I turn down a $3,000 sofa for $900?" So you buy the sofa and stick it in the room, which is now cluttered with stuff since you also spent another $10,000 on some crummy art, a coffee table with support problems, two giant bookcases that have to be turned sideways, some wobbly end tables and a smashed sculpture that was patched back together with duct tape. But since it's too late to go back, you spend another $5,000 on an interior decorator to make the room work. Well, you know what would happen? He wouldn't be able to make it work. You bought too much crap.

See, this is why Isiah is a genius: He's assembling the basketball version of that nightmare living room, and he has the fans convinced that either the expensive interior decorator -- in this case, Larry Brown -- will be able to make everything work, or he can somehow swap some of that furniture to one of his neighbors for a first-class piece of art. And he's spending an ungodly amount of money! And you never hear rumors that he might get fired! I think it's a tribute to him and his staff. He's the best-ever at being an atrocious GM. He really is.

Thomas: Thank you, Scott, that means a lot.

Simmons: Lemme ask you, Isiah -- the one red flag seems to be that you're spending an alarming amount of money. Just this year alone, you have a $123 million payroll for 15 wins. When the luxury tax kicks in, you will have shelled out nearly $200 million for a 25-win team. Doesn't fiscal responsibility matter here?

(There's a beat, and then everyone laughs.)

Simmons: I guess not! Mitch Kupchak, Rob Babcock, Scott Layden, Kevin McHale, Billy King, John Weisbrod, Jim Paxson and Isiah Thomas … thanks for your time! Ladies and gentlemen, the most atrocious GMs of the decade!

(The crowd applauds wildly.)

Simmons: Guys, what do you say we cap this off with a high-stakes poker game back in my hotel room, just the nine of us? Seriously, what do you say?

Please?

Pretty please?"

[GST]

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Given our ownership situation we aren't exactly in the position to be picky.

And that is probably the bottom line on why we will end up with Billy King, or someone like him. A good GM is not going to put up with these owners meddling in every decision.

[AtLaS]

Damn, when are these owners going to actually do something good? I'm so sick of all these retarded bonehead moves.

I mean, I'd rather have Billy King than Knight but King should not be at the top of the list..

[KB21]

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We are debating the wrong thing. The bigger question is why is the GM list starting with Billy King? Shouldn't you shoot a little higher? And why is the hell is Woodson still here?

I agree with this.

Im not saying Billy King is the worst GM ever (he`s definitely not in the top 50% tho), but if he`s the guy we START with, we got problems fellas. I think we could try to shoot just a tad bit higher, no? I mean, first choice Billy King. Come on! Let`s at least get turned down from some better candidates first.

Well, who then?

If someone says Kiki Vandeweghe, I want them to explain why he is better than Billy King. After all, Kiki Vandeweghe is the guy that trade for Kenyon Martin and gave him that outrageous contract. Kiki Vandeweghe is also the GM that signed Maybiner Hilario to a block buster deal despite the fact that he is injured all the time. And outside of Carmelo Anthony, his drafts produced little to nothing.

Billy King gave out some bad contracts, but none of them were any worse than the contract Kiki gave to Kenyon Martin and Hilario. Billy King also unloaded team cancer Allen Iverson and got the most underrated point guard in the NBA in return as well as a draft pick. If you look at his draft history, Billy King has hit on pretty much every first round pick he has made whether it was Larry Hughes, Samuel Dalembert, Andre Iguodala, Rodney Carney, or Thaddues Young.

[NJHAWK]

Yes we could hire Isiah. That is the only possible way we can get worse than King. When BK needed a jack ayss to dump Big Hog on, HE KNEW EXACTLY WHO TO CALL.

[Duff_Man]

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Billy King isnt the best but I think he is better than Knight though..i'd take it i guess. He did a decent job with the Sixers but does have a tendency to overpay players. but he will fire coaches who dont do their job though..lets see what happens

So we can go from full-blown AIDS to HIV. An improvement, but they both still are nothing you want.

[Dsinner]

So his strongest selling point is his POSITIVE relationship with Woody? So what kind of leash will Woody get with Kingt? .025%? One of the positives about getting a new GM should be that he would want his own coach. This is the absolute worst thing that could happen this offseason (get a mediocre GM that LIKES Woody). M'r F'r.

I've been putting up with this team for a long time and even despite our first playoffs in forever, I am loosing faith all over again.

[TheDude]

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We are debating the wrong thing. The bigger question is why is the GM list starting with Billy King? Shouldn't you shoot a little higher?

EXACTLY.

[Diesel]

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So his strongest selling point is his POSITIVE relationship with Woody? So what kind of leash will Woody get with Kingt? .025%? One of the positives about getting a new GM should be that he would want his own coach. This is the absolute worst thing that could happen this offseason (get a mediocre GM that LIKES Woody). M'r F'r.

I've been putting up with this team for a long time and even despite our first playoffs in forever, I am loosing faith all over again.

NO..

The absolute worse thing that can happen is getting a GM who would bring in a coach that is worst than Woodson OR a coach who our players would not play for.

I agree, Woody made lots of mistakes.

However, I'm not so quick to jump with a new GM just becuase I would be 100% that he would replace Woody. I think any GM we bring in is going to have to be a guy with his own plans... sound plans.... and a guy that knows what he's doing.

Most of these guys mentioned HAVE NO EXPERIENCE as GM. Being an assistant GM is not the same as having GM experience. The thing I like about King is the fact that he has had a chance to learn from his mistakes.

If we bring in Joe Jumbo as GM and all that he has ever done is be Assistant to a GM, then more than likely... he will make mistakes and we will have to ignore those because of his "youth". King has made youthful mistakes. King has a name in basketball circles. King has obtained free agents before. King has good drafting skills. King knows how to scout and set up scouts.

Joe Jumbo's claim to fame is that he's something new. That's not always a good thing.

[atlien]

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We are debating the wrong thing. The bigger question is why is the GM list starting with Billy King? Shouldn't you shoot a little higher?

EXACTLY.

Yep. The fact so much of Hawksquawk seems truly excited about the prospects of Billy King has me scratching my head. There HAS to be better options.

[coachx]

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We are debating the wrong thing. The bigger question is why is the GM list starting with Billy King? Shouldn't you shoot a little higher?

EXACTLY.

Yep. The fact so much of Hawksquawk seems truly excited about the prospects of Billy King has me scratching my head. There HAS to be better options.

"Truely excited ?" Your taking people's post out of context. We can just see how he should be on the list for candidates getting interviews.

When you have been a GM for 8 years (in the city that is known for being whiners and complainers) every move you make that is not perfect will be scrutinized.

I admire that King had the BALLS to trade Iverson. That takes guts b/c Iverson is the only reason people came to see the 76ers play. One season later and the 76ers are in the playoffs and the arena is packed again. No one expected that. The 76ers were picked to finish at the bottom of the East. Yet, they wind up with a .500 record.....Kudos to King for that quick turn around !

People say Cheeks should get all the credit. Well, King chose Cheeks as coach and also chose the player Cheeks is coaching......so for those of you who want to be that ignoarant go ahead and be ignorant.

This essence of the perfect GM is just childish.....they don't exist !

Joe Dumas took Darko at #2 rather then Melo, Bosh, or Wade......he gets a pass

The Bucks passed on Paul and Deron just as Kinght did.

The Blazers traded out of the #3 spot to #6 to get Webster (who is worse then Marvin)while Paul and Deron went #3 and #4

Kiki Vandewage gave Keyon Martin a max deal.

Every team in the league has atleast one over paid player. Its just reality.

I agree guys like Kurt Thomas got a bad contract. However the landscape of contracts has changed since then. Back then it was thing to do to hand out long 7 year deals. Most players now sign 4 year deals (or less) who are not superstar level players such as Kurt Thomas.

I am hopeful King has learned from those mistakes of over paying and over extending (as has the league who cut down the length of NBA contracts). Also keep in mind who he will be working for. I don't thing the ASG would allow any Kurt Thomas or Alan Henderson like contracts to go to more average players.

[thescout5]

Where's is the talent on Philly after Miller and Iggy? King has been GM since 2000 and this is what he has has a team? No thanks on King, what you don't want is another undderachieving GM to go along with the Babcock's and Knight's.

Sure there are going to be a few bad moves by teams however the quality teams still find quality players that build a core and are competitive for championships year after year. Darko was taken by Detroit a bust but they got Wallace, Prince in the draft,Billups etc etc . San Antonio has Ginoboli,Parker, Duncan ..Lakers got Gasol for not alot,Bynum ,Kobe.

Finding those hidden gems is what seperates the quality franchises the Hawk's have never had a GM who could find them.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?team=phi

[Diesel]

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Where's is the talent on Philly after Miller and Iggy? King has been GM since 2000 and this is what he has has a team? No thanks on King, what you don't want is another undderachieving GM to go along with the Babcock's and Knight's.

Sure there are going to be a few bad moves by teams however the quality teams still find quality players that build a core and are competitive for championships year after year. Darko was taken by Detroit a bust but they got Wallace, Prince in the draft,Billups etc etc . San Antonio has Ginoboli,Parker, Duncan ..Lakers got Gasol for not alot,Bynum ,Kobe.

Finding those hidden gems is what seperates the quality franchises the Hawk's have never had a GM who could find them.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?team=phi

Well for starters, Thad Young, Lou Williams, Shavlik Randolph. While these are not household names, when you look in respect to where King got them... you have to be impressed. Moreover, it's not always about who can pick an allstar.. IF you're picking 2 and 3rd, you better get an allstar. However, King was able to build a team filled with Chemistry. That's why they win. Hell, a few year again, Paul Allen's GM in PTL spent loads of money and brought in a whole lot of talented players. How far did they get? They got as many championship rings as King's team has.

When you look past the complaints of a King run team, you see that he understand how to build and how to spot talent. That's a lot more than can be said for a lot of these other guys with NO GMing experience on their resume.

[dlpin]

Hello, all.

Im a Celtics fan who has lived in GA for 7 years, and as such grew fond of the hawks. Ive lurked this forum for a while, but this Billy King situation made me want to register. And I am sorry, but Billy King is absolutely the worst GM the hawks could get. Besides the well known bad contracts, he is simply impatient, trading away young players and draft picks for overpriced veterans. 10 years in Philly got him one finals appearance, and that was it. The guy had to rebuild several times. Additionally, in his 10 years there, he had 5 different headcoaches. When you consider Brown was there for 5 of those years, hes had 4 coaches the past 5 years...

Of course, you dont need to believe me. Heck, considering this is my first post here I expect that much. But just check this out:

http://hoopshype.com/general_managers/billy_king.htm

He's been GM since 98. I wont go into the aforementioned bad contracts, but look at the highlights:

1998-

passed on Paul Pierce and Nowitzki to select Larry Hughes for a team that already had Iverson and Stackhouse

As a lottery team, traded away a future 1st rounder for a player drafted 29th (Nazr)

traded another 1st rounder for Mirsad Turkcan (who?), and then a few months later traded Mirsad Turkcan for a Milwaukee (then a playoff team) for their first round.

1999-

-traded a first rounder for Jumaine Jones

- traded Hughes into his 2nd season with the team, plus Bowen, for a 31 year old Kukoc.

2000-

-traded McLeod and a 1st round pick to the Celtics for Jerome Moiso, who averaged less than 2ppg in his rookie season, and was DNP-coachs decision for most of it. Then, less than 2 months later, traded Moiso away.

- let Todd MacCulloch walk, only to trade for him later

2003-

traded, among other things, a 1st round pick for Glenn Robinson

All in all, he traded away many of his 1st round picks, only to reacquire other 1st round picks from better teams, of the 1st round picks he did keep, he most often traded the players within 2 years for older players.

With such potential for the hawks, and such an impatient GM as King at the helm, Id be scared...

[exodus]

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We are debating the wrong thing. The bigger question is why is the GM list starting with Billy King? Shouldn't you shoot a little higher?

EXACTLY.

Yep. The fact so much of Hawksquawk seems truly excited about the prospects of Billy King has me scratching my head. There HAS to be better options.

I am sure there are but why would they want to come here with a fractured, meddling ownership?

[GST]

dlpin, welcome to HawkSquawk, and thanks for the perspective. It sounds as though King is much worse than Knight.