We should seriously consider trading Smith for a 5

[JackB1]

Sooner or later we have to face the fact that we have 2 power forwards in Smoove and Al.

We desperately need a real center who can play tough D and move AL to the #4. I love Smoove and all, but we have 2 PF's and we only need one. Why not trade Smoove for a real center? Until we do, we will always have this problem.

[Diesel]

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Sooner or later we have to face the fact that we have 2 power forwards in Smoove and Al.

We desperately need a real center who can play tough D and move AL to the #4. I love Smoove and all, but we have 2 PF's and we only need one. Why not trade Smoove for a real center? Until we do, we will always have this problem.

If we could get LaMarcus Aldridge or Okafor (maybe) I might be on board, but until everybody in the league has a dominant C, I don't think it's mandatory.

I think a Center that's average to above average will do. I liked how Boston used Perkins. He didn't have to play all the time and some times, they went to smaller lineups. I mean Powe is a monster. I think we can be the same way... However, we do need a part time C who can give us good minutes. That guy might be Solo if he can bulk up.

[coachx]

To trade Smoove we have to first resign him.

Then he becomes a BYC player / meaning for 1 year we can only take back half his salary in a trade. This will make it difficult to find anything near equal value in return.

I would prefer to keep Smith and get a defensive big in here who is an upgrade over ZaZa.

The minutes will break out like this:

PF: Smoove 35 mpg / Horford 13 mpg

C: Horford 22 mpg / 26 mpg left over for defensive big / ZaZa.

There is alwayse the possibility that David Anderson or another high post Center is brought in that would allow Smith to play SF....down the road.

[EazyRoc]

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Sooner or later we have to face the fact that we have 2 power forwards in Smoove and Al.

We desperately need a real center who can play tough D and move AL to the #4. I love Smoove and all, but we have 2 PF's and we only need one. Why not trade Smoove for a real center? Until we do, we will always have this problem.

If we could get LaMarcus Aldridge or Okafor (maybe) I might be on board, but until everybody in the league has a dominant C, I don't think it's mandatory.

I think a Center that's average to above average will do. I liked how Boston used Perkins. He didn't have to play all the time and some times, they went to smaller lineups. I mean Powe is a monster. I think we can be the same way... However, we do need a part time C who can give us good minutes. That guy might be Solo if he can bulk up.

I would love to get LaMarcus Aldridge for Josh Smith. Okafor wouldn't be bad either, but he doesn't have the offensive game that Aldridge has. I definitely wouldn't be against trading Smith for a young big, but they'd have to be pretty good.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The problem is consistency. It seems with him that he has great games, coupled with a few bad games. If he were a consistent 16 - 20 ppg . . 8 - 10 rebound guy a night, that shot a decent percentage, it wouldn't be a problem at all.

But there are no 5's to be trading Smith for, because no one wants to trade a quality 5. No one. Why would another team trade their quality 5, to bring in Smith, and essentially play 2 PFs like we're doing?

I think some of you are going to be surprised with Horford's play at the 5 next year. He may very well make this discussion moot. The truth is that the combination of Smith and Horford may already be a top 10, and definitely a top 15 C & PF combination.

Stoudamire & O'Neal ( a dream offensive frontline, if healthy, but fairly weak defensively )

Howard & Lewis ( only flaw is that Lewis plays like a SF instead of a PF )

Bosh & O'Neal ( on paper, potentially the best offensive group )

Okur & Boozer ( solid all-around, just wish Okur was more of a post presence )

Wallace & McDyess ( no glaring weaknesses, other than Sheed's attitude and shot selection . . lol . . that's a glaring weakness though )

KG & Perkins ( best defensive group )

Brand & Kaman ( potentially a top 5 group, let's see how Kaman plays with Brand )

Bynum & Gasol ( another potentially top 5 group, with Bynum the wild card )

Chandler & West ( probably underraded by me and should be in the top 6 )

Smith & Horford ( one of the best rebounding and probably the most athletic group )

Yao & Scola ( may have to move them up, if Scola keeps developing into a nice PF )

Nowitski & Dampier ( Should easily be a top 10 group, but Damp is so sorry sometimes )

Duncan & Oberto ( Oberto is just a fill-in at PF, while Duncan is the real force on the frontline )

Camby & Martin ( No reason why this group shouldn't be in the top 10, but they underachieve bad )

Oden & Aldridge ( Can't anoint Oden the next great center, until he plays an actual NBA game )

[Zone034life]

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Sooner or later we have to face the fact that we have 2 power forwards in Smoove and Al.

We desperately need a real center who can play tough D and move AL to the #4. I love Smoove and all, but we have 2 PF's and we only need one. Why not trade Smoove for a real center? Until we do, we will always have this problem.

When you say five who do you have in mind. Its easy to say we need a Center and consistency at the point. But Centers are a dime a dozen and most aren't even the presence Smoove is down low. Horford and Smoove played with great chemistry last season and only need a defensive big to come in and provide size and length. But that doesn't mean you trade Smoove.

I see i'm going to get tired of hearing about this arguement. There just aren't any great young centers out there like some of you want it to be. Plus Marvin, chillz or Bibby should be traded before Smoove because Smoove has proven that he is a valuable member of this team. He has exceeded expectations while Chillz and Marvin have not lived up to being top 10 picks. They are servicable but haven't brought what they were drafted to give this team. Smoove has and given even more.

[crimedog]

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Sooner or later we have to face the fact that we have 2 power forwards in Smoove and Al.

We desperately need a real center who can play tough D and move AL to the #4. I love Smoove and all, but we have 2 PF's and we only need one. Why not trade Smoove for a real center? Until we do, we will always have this problem.

If we could get LaMarcus Aldridge or Okafor (maybe) I might be on board, but until everybody in the league has a dominant C, I don't think it's mandatory.

I think a Center that's average to above average will do. I liked how Boston used Perkins. He didn't have to play all the time and some times, they went to smaller lineups. I mean Powe is a monster. I think we can be the same way... However, we do need a part time C who can give us good minutes. That guy might be Solo if he can bulk up.

I would love to get LaMarcus Aldridge for Josh Smith. Okafor wouldn't be bad either, but he doesn't have the offensive game that Aldridge has. I definitely wouldn't be against trading Smith for a young big, but they'd have to be pretty good.

You do realize that for all the bitching about Smith's shooting efficiency and rebounding, he scores at a comparable rate to Aldridge (2% lower but 2 more FTs than Aldridge), rebounds at a higher rate (lower offensively but MUCH higher defensively - 1.6 more Drebds), and on top of that is a far superior defender and shot-creator, right?

I think Hawks' fans obssession with Aldridge sort of shows the "grass is greener" phenomenon regarding Smith.

Beyond that, if the goal of getting a 5 is to move Horford to 4, we should probably get one who isn't softer than the Huggies Bear. Horford would still get guarded by centers because Aldridge doesn't like to bang, and Horford would still have to guard centers because, well, Aldridge doesn't like to bang.

Centers I would definitely be willing to let go of Josh for are:

Dwight

Yao

Duncan

Oden

Centers I would consider fair value but wouldn't necessarilly want a trade for are:

Bynum

Jefferson

Bosh (although he won't have to play C much longer)

Amare

Centers I'd need some BIG incentive to pull the trigger for:

Biedrins (limited on offense, weak on D)

Okafor (little show of improvement, injury prone)

Kaman (makes Smith seem like a cerebral player, not particularly efficient for a low post C, never had a particularly special season until Brand went out)

Aldridge (Robert Parrish without the defense, rebounding, or toughness)

[EazyRoc]

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Sooner or later we have to face the fact that we have 2 power forwards in Smoove and Al.

We desperately need a real center who can play tough D and move AL to the #4. I love Smoove and all, but we have 2 PF's and we only need one. Why not trade Smoove for a real center? Until we do, we will always have this problem.

If we could get LaMarcus Aldridge or Okafor (maybe) I might be on board, but until everybody in the league has a dominant C, I don't think it's mandatory.

I think a Center that's average to above average will do. I liked how Boston used Perkins. He didn't have to play all the time and some times, they went to smaller lineups. I mean Powe is a monster. I think we can be the same way... However, we do need a part time C who can give us good minutes. That guy might be Solo if he can bulk up.

I would love to get LaMarcus Aldridge for Josh Smith. Okafor wouldn't be bad either, but he doesn't have the offensive game that Aldridge has. I definitely wouldn't be against trading Smith for a young big, but they'd have to be pretty good.

You do realize that for all the bitching about Smith's shooting efficiency and rebounding, he scores at a comparable rate to Aldridge (2% lower but 2 more FTs than Aldridge), rebounds at a higher rate (lower offensively but MUCH higher defensively - 1.6 more Drebds), and on top of that is a far superior defender and shot-creator, right?

I think Hawks' fans obssession with Aldridge sort of shows the "grass is greener" phenomenon regarding Smith.

Beyond that, if the goal of getting a 5 is to move Horford to 4, we should probably get one who isn't softer than the Huggies Bear. Horford would still get guarded by centers because Aldridge doesn't like to bang, and Horford would still have to guard centers because, well, Aldridge doesn't like to bang.

Centers I would definitely be willing to let go of Josh for are:

Dwight

Yao

Duncan

Oden

Centers I would consider fair value but wouldn't necessarilly want a trade for are:

Bynum

Jefferson

Bosh (although he won't have to play C much longer)

Amare

Centers I'd need some BIG incentive to pull the trigger for:

Biedrins (limited on offense, weak on D)

Okafor (little show of improvement, injury prone)

Kaman (makes Smith seem like a cerebral player, not particularly efficient for a low post C, never had a particularly special season until Brand went out)

Aldridge (Robert Parrish without the defense, rebounding, or toughness)

LaMarcus Aldridge is still a young player and has made drastic improvements in every category except FG% and BPG. He's an offensive big that can score that is a decent rebounder. I think his defense and rebounding will improve, and so will his offense. I can easily see him averaging 18-20 ppg with 7-9 rpg. He's a long player (see 7'5" wingspan), athletic, and young.

Okafor might be a reach, but I'd still consider it.

I wouldn't trade for Kaman or Beidrins straight up.

[crimedog]

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LaMarcus Aldridge is still a young player and has made drastic improvements in every category except FG% and BPG. He's an offensive big that can score that is a decent rebounder. I think his defense and rebounding will improve, and so will his offense. I can easily see him averaging 18-20 ppg with 7-9 rpg. He's a long player (see 7'5" wingspan), athletic, and young.

This is all true.

The question is, why would we trade Josh for him?

He is a better shooter, yes, but he isn't a better offensive player (same ppg, same efficiency, fewer TOs fewer assists). He isn't a terrible rebounder but he is naturallly a worse rebounder than Josh, especially on D, and Smith could be a better offensive rebounder of we didn't design our halfcourt set to have Chil act as a post player. Aldridge has defensive potential, but his potential doesn't match up to what Smith offers right now. He's athletic, Smith is more athletic. He's young but he's half a year older than Smith.

My point is this. Aldridge is a nice player. He is the perfect power forward on that team because he can score without getting in Roy or Oden's way. He isn't better than Smith though, and if the whole point of trading Smith for a center is to get a traditional low post banger, why would we trade Smith for a guy who is a worse inside player, worse rebounder, and worse defender?

[EazyRoc]

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LaMarcus Aldridge is still a young player and has made drastic improvements in every category except FG% and BPG. He's an offensive big that can score that is a decent rebounder. I think his defense and rebounding will improve, and so will his offense. I can easily see him averaging 18-20 ppg with 7-9 rpg. He's a long player (see 7'5" wingspan), athletic, and young.

This is all true.

The question is, why would we trade Josh for him?

He is a better shooter, yes, but he isn't a better offensive player (same ppg, same efficiency, fewer TOs fewer assists). He isn't a terrible rebounder but he is naturallly a worse rebounder than Josh, especially on D, and Smith could be a better offensive rebounder of we didn't design our halfcourt set to have Chil act as a post player. Aldridge has defensive potential, but his potential doesn't match up to what Smith offers right now. He's athletic, Smith is more athletic. He's young but he's half a year older than Smith.

My point is this. Aldridge is a nice player. He is the perfect power forward on that team because he can score without getting in Roy or Oden's way. He isn't better than Smith though, and if the whole point of trading Smith for a center is to get a traditional low post banger, why would we trade Smith for a guy who is a worse inside player, worse rebounder, and worse defender?

Aldridge scores more efficiently in the paint. The purpose in trading Josh Smith is to bring in a good, young big. He averaged 17 and 7 in his second year in the league, man. He's going to get bigger, and his defense will improve. Josh Smith might be better than Aldridge, but Aldridge brings size, scoring, and solid rebounding with potential to get better. It's not an equal trade, but I would do it. Aldridge will be a good player in this league and we can finaly fill our C position with a young, athletic player. We'd have a solid combo with LaMarcus Aldridge and Al Horford, and our offense would be much better with the addition of a post option. This will eliminate the "problem" we have at the 4 spot.

[foeteen14]

for us to trade smith for a center you have to be saying that horford is or will be a better player than smith will be. i disagree, why not trade horford for a center. why not trade horford for aldridge or one of those other guys. josh doubled horford in every statistical category (except rebounding). if josh was forced to play center, and horford played PF, josh would have still doubled horford in every statistical category (except rebounding). they are both good players, who will possibly be great, why not let them grow together. never take for granted how good your players can be. cleveland did it and lost BIG. imagine if they would have just ponied up the money to boozer instead of beating around the bush. Lebron and boozer would be deadly. but instead lebrons still looking for a number 2, and d. will and boozer are becoming a true force. I just think we need a SF that can play PF, and shooter off the bench. ie... turn marvin into marion, turn marvin villanaueva and shooter?sp, turn marvin into tyrus thomas and shooter, turn marvin into al harrington. i'm telling you, marvin and bibby for marion and m. banks, makes us a top 4 team in the east.

[Zone034life]

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for us to trade smith for a center you have to be saying that horford is or will be a better player than smith will be. i disagree, why not trade horford for a center. why not trade horford for aldridge or one of those other guys. josh doubled horford in every statistical category (except rebounding). if josh was forced to play center, and horford played PF, josh would have still doubled horford in every statistical category (except rebounding). they are both good players, who will possibly be great, why not let them grow together. never take for granted how good your players can be. cleveland did it and lost BIG. imagine if they would have just ponied up the money to boozer instead of beating around the bush. Lebron and boozer would be deadly. but instead lebrons still looking for a number 2, and d. will and boozer are becoming a true force. I just think we need a SF that can play PF, and shooter off the bench. ie... turn marvin into marion, turn marvin villanaueva and shooter?sp, turn marvin into tyrus thomas and shooter, turn marvin into al harrington. i'm telling you, marvin and bibby for marion and m. banks, makes us a top 4 team in the east.

I agree with trading Marvin but not Horford. You were correct is saying to keep both Smoove and Big Al. They both outperformed and were more valueable than Marvin last season. It is easier to find a SF who can duplicate Marvins production and minutes than it is to replace Smoove unique skillset and Horfords toughness, athletism and maturity. Thats why I wish Sund would have waited until he watched as much game film as he could before making a decision to keep the top 8 intact. If he is going off of the playoff series then he is not doing his job correctly.

[Traceman]

Do you think Sund would make the decision to keep our top 8 intact based SOLELY on our performance in the playoffs? Well, if he does that, Bibby had better hope that he never finished unpacking because he's outta here!

[BusBoyIsBack]

When will people learn?

Our problem is not our starting PF and C. It's our DEPTH. As in when one/both of those guys come out, what we have in their place.

What our frontcourt lacks in size it makes up for with length and athleticism.

Horford as a raw offensive rookie was a top 15 C in this league. There is no reason why he can't become top 10.

There is no true 7 foot Center that you can consider elite in the entire Eastern conference so why do people think we need one of our own to compete?

We don't lose games because we lack a couple inches down low. We lose games when we play dumb basketball such as not moving around offensively, taking ill-advised shots, and not communicating defensively which results in all that switching and leaving guys wide open for easy layups or 3 pointers.

[Admin]

[Traceman]

[crimedog]

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LaMarcus Aldridge is still a young player and has made drastic improvements in every category except FG% and BPG. He's an offensive big that can score that is a decent rebounder. I think his defense and rebounding will improve, and so will his offense. I can easily see him averaging 18-20 ppg with 7-9 rpg. He's a long player (see 7'5" wingspan), athletic, and young.

This is all true.

The question is, why would we trade Josh for him?

He is a better shooter, yes, but he isn't a better offensive player (same ppg, same efficiency, fewer TOs fewer assists). He isn't a terrible rebounder but he is naturallly a worse rebounder than Josh, especially on D, and Smith could be a better offensive rebounder of we didn't design our halfcourt set to have Chil act as a post player. Aldridge has defensive potential, but his potential doesn't match up to what Smith offers right now. He's athletic, Smith is more athletic. He's young but he's half a year older than Smith.

My point is this. Aldridge is a nice player. He is the perfect power forward on that team because he can score without getting in Roy or Oden's way. He isn't better than Smith though, and if the whole point of trading Smith for a center is to get a traditional low post banger, why would we trade Smith for a guy who is a worse inside player, worse rebounder, and worse defender?

Aldridge scores more efficiently in the paint. The purpose in trading Josh Smith is to bring in a good, young big. He averaged 17 and 7 in his second year in the league, man. He's going to get bigger, and his defense will improve. Josh Smith might be better than Aldridge, but Aldridge brings size, scoring, and solid rebounding with potential to get better. It's not an equal trade, but I would do it. Aldridge will be a good player in this league and we can finaly fill our C position with a young, athletic player. We'd have a solid combo with LaMarcus Aldridge and Al Horford, and our offense would be much better with the addition of a post option. This will eliminate the "problem" we have at the 4 spot.

Horford is more of a center than Aldridge. Smith is more of a center than Aldridge. 65% of Aldridge's shots are jump shots, if you think he's a post option you obviously haven't watched him. Also, he's not actually a more efficient scorer than Smith. His FG% is 2% higher but he gets significantly fewer free throws which is a way to increase the amount of points you have per possessions.

Again, Smith is more of a post option than Aldridge. Aldridge isn't younger than Smith and doesn't have more potential. I would understand if he was a true center who played with his back to the basket but he is primarily a jump shooter out of the high post. Why trade your power forward for a "center" who isn't as good at any center duties?

[DavidSomerset]

Josh Smith for Al Jefferson would be my choice...But them trading for Kevin Love probably nixes that idea.

I'd also be down for Chris Kaman or Lamarcus Aldridge.

Josh Smith is my favorite Hawk, but I understand we have needs...And I probably would take Horford over him...

[HawkNJersey]

I believe Sund has stated tha AL is a 5 that can play some 4. That means Smoove is our PF of the future. Smoove is the perfect PF compliment for AL.

[EazyRoc]

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LaMarcus Aldridge is still a young player and has made drastic improvements in every category except FG% and BPG. He's an offensive big that can score that is a decent rebounder. I think his defense and rebounding will improve, and so will his offense. I can easily see him averaging 18-20 ppg with 7-9 rpg. He's a long player (see 7'5" wingspan), athletic, and young.

This is all true.

The question is, why would we trade Josh for him?

He is a better shooter, yes, but he isn't a better offensive player (same ppg, same efficiency, fewer TOs fewer assists). He isn't a terrible rebounder but he is naturallly a worse rebounder than Josh, especially on D, and Smith could be a better offensive rebounder of we didn't design our halfcourt set to have Chil act as a post player. Aldridge has defensive potential, but his potential doesn't match up to what Smith offers right now. He's athletic, Smith is more athletic. He's young but he's half a year older than Smith.

My point is this. Aldridge is a nice player. He is the perfect power forward on that team because he can score without getting in Roy or Oden's way. He isn't better than Smith though, and if the whole point of trading Smith for a center is to get a traditional low post banger, why would we trade Smith for a guy who is a worse inside player, worse rebounder, and worse defender?

Aldridge scores more efficiently in the paint. The purpose in trading Josh Smith is to bring in a good, young big. He averaged 17 and 7 in his second year in the league, man. He's going to get bigger, and his defense will improve. Josh Smith might be better than Aldridge, but Aldridge brings size, scoring, and solid rebounding with potential to get better. It's not an equal trade, but I would do it. Aldridge will be a good player in this league and we can finaly fill our C position with a young, athletic player. We'd have a solid combo with LaMarcus Aldridge and Al Horford, and our offense would be much better with the addition of a post option. This will eliminate the "problem" we have at the 4 spot.

Horford is more of a center than Aldridge. Smith is more of a center than Aldridge. 65% of Aldridge's shots are jump shots, if you think he's a post option you obviously haven't watched him. Also, he's not actually a more efficient scorer than Smith. His FG% is 2% higher but he gets significantly fewer free throws which is a way to increase the amount of points you have per possessions.

Again, Smith is more of a post option than Aldridge. Aldridge isn't younger than Smith and doesn't have more potential. I would understand if he was a true center who played with his back to the basket but he is primarily a jump shooter out of the high post. Why trade your power forward for a "center" who isn't as good at any center duties?

His game is more balanced than you imply. He takes a lot of jumpshots, that's not all he does. Even then, he shoots jumpshots better than J. Smith by a long shot. Smith is not more of a post option than Aldridge. Aldridge takes most of his shots around the basket, almost half of his shots. Aldridge has a more balanced offensive game, and is a better offensive player despite the 2 FT, and 1.5 assist advantage Smith may have on him. Besides, who says you have to be a back to the basket player to be a center ? You don't have to be a back to the basket player to be a post option either.