In the meantime … (Sekou blog- Acie,Summer League(

[jhay610]

you're missing the point. trace wasn't comparing smoove and marvin as players. He is an astute basketball fan and as such can tell that Smooth is the more talented and impactful player.

He was defending Marvin against the ludicrous claims against his work ethic and against the sources of those claims, who make it appear as if they are personally serving Marvin juice from a sippy-cup while watching spongebob as the rest of the team puts in the long hours on the floor this summer.

[HawkItus]

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You didn't answer my question, D.

What's Horford doing this summer?

To answer your question, there needs to be some reason for the relevance? Horford is probably finishing his degree because he's proven himself in his rookie year.

Marvin is in his third year. Has yet to live up to the hype. Has yet to improve any part of his game. Is making plenty of money and is going into his first free agent year. To have Acie realize that he didn't live up to his name and to be on the court busting his a00 makes his coach smile. Marvin for 3 years now have been guilty of the same things. Last year, it came to light that he needed an assistant to tell him that maybe he ought to come in and work out.

So to answer your question...

It doesn't really matter what Horf is doing this summer. He could be laid up with a girl on one hand and a corona in the other. We have had much success with "the Godfather" contributing and being robbed of ROY. What about Marvin? (Who wasn't even asked to participate in the Rookie-Sophomore game either year)

Whoa, now Marvin has improved, not nearly enough, but he has improved. Let's not let personal bias cloud reality. And Josh Smith nor Josh Childress were asked to be part of the rookie-sophomore games.

Marvin unlike Smith plays with in himself, doesn't make a ton of turnovers and only does what he is asked to do without all pouting. Lay off the man.

[Zone034life]

If he wasn't comparing them then why put up article clips about Smoove? Sounded to me that he was saying Marvin works hard and Smooves work ethic should be questioned. If you want to defend Marvin fine but don't include Smoove when he makes more of an impact than Marvin. I don't know what Marvin is doing right now and won't speculate. I will say after watching him three years i'm not confident he has the desire to be anything other than a role player.

[Zone034life]

Back to the topic I am excited to see what Othello Hunter can do. He is a defensive forward who could bring energy off the bench if he could make the team.

[Traceman]

Just because Smoove is a better player doesn't mean that Marvin has a poor work ethic.

Smoove has God-given athletic ability that 99% of the players in the NBA can only dream about. He is a freak of nature and his athletic ability has NOTHING to do with how hard Marvin or ANY other player works.

As for all the negatives that you list for Marvin, each opne can certainly be apllied to Smoove. Smoove can't create his own shot any better than Marvin can. Smoove is not even a midrange shooter - he can't shoot at all. He can't defend above average SFs like Paul Pierce man to man. And he can disappear wit hthe best of them when he is not focused.

What has Marvin done to make me defend him? Play for the Hawks. Work hard. Have a good attitude. Have no ego. Improve every year. Be a TERRIFIC young man. Be a good teammate. Be a good citizen on and off the court. Listen to the coaches. Represent the franchise in a positive way. I could go on but I don't feel that it is necessary.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Whoa, now Marvin has improved, not nearly enough, but he has improved. Let's not let personal bias cloud reality. And Josh Smith nor Josh Childress were asked to be part of the rookie-sophomore games.

Marvin unlike Smith plays with in himself, doesn't make a ton of turnovers and only does what he is asked to do without all pouting. Lay off the man.

The crazy thing about this "discussion", is that whatever Marvin did last offseason helped him TREMEDOUSLY at the start of the 07 - 08 season. Marvin was easily . . EASILY . . our most consitent and dependable offensive player in November and December. JJ's shot was erratic and Smith ran extremely hot and cold in those first 2 months.

Marvin's play was so good, that some on this site even advocated that Woody run not only more plays for Marvin, but to even make him the PRIMARY OPTION IN THE OFFENSE.

But as soon as that guy had a bad 15 - 20 game stretch in February and early March, the Marvin hadhunters came back out of the woodwork. February was probably Marvin's worst month as a pro, and that's all people needed to see before getting back on the "Marvin Sucks" bandwagon.

March and April, he was back to his old self, but also saw less shos per game with the arrival of Bibby.

And it's funny how people talk about Marvin turning the ball over due to his clumsy nature.

Marvin didn't lead the Hawks in turnovers.

"You know who", did.

[Traceman]

claiming that Smoove had a great work ethic while Marvin had a poor one. That is simply not, and never has been, the case. I actually think that Smoove's work ethic has improved significantly since he got into the league and I applaud him for that.

That said, work ethic and impact are two different things. Some guys are so athletically gifted that they don't have to work as hard as others to be effective. That is true in virtually every sport. Smoove is CLEARLY a more athletically gifted player than Marvin and he CLEARLY has more of an impact on the game. Smoove does some things without having to work on them (jump into the stratosphere for one) that Marvin will NEVER be able to do no matter how hard he works.

[Diesel]

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you're missing the point. trace wasn't comparing smoove and marvin as players. He is an astute basketball fan and as such can tell that Smooth is the more talented and impactful player.

He was defending Marvin against the ludicrous claims against his work ethic and against the sources of those claims, who make it appear as if they are personally serving Marvin juice from a sippy-cup while watching spongebob as the rest of the team puts in the long hours on the floor this summer.

Now, he's an astute basketball fan?? Interesting.

Ok, here's the problem.

Marvin is not improving.

You can track Smoove's improvement from year to year.

You can track improvement in other's game from year to year.

However, Marvin doesn't really improve. He hasn't added anything to his game. He hasn't improved any area of his game. He started off a 24% three point shooter as a rookie and now he's a 10% three point shooter. Over the season, he went from shooting 46% to finishing shooting 43.9% over the second half of the season. In his rookie year, he was very tentative. Now he's just a standstill midrange shooter. In his drives, he still drops his head and stumbles over people. Nothing different than before. He's still clumsy. He still doesn't do anything impactful on the floor.

You have quotes about work ethic, however, if you were really astute, you would know that work ethic is seen best in the product... not in talk. Especially not when you have a history of taking summers off.

How did we know that Jordan had a great work ethic? Was it from rumor? Was it from what others said about him? Was it from what the reporters may have stated in their blogs? NO... His work ethic spoke on the court. When he had to get better, he did. When he needed to improve, he did. Where he was weak, he strengthened. This is the issue with Marvin. I'm sure I can find one article with somebody talking good about anybody but Eddy Curry.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Now, he's an astute basketball fan?? Interesting.

Ok, here's the problem.

Marvin is not improving.

You can track Smoove's improvement from year to year.

You can track improvement in other's game from year to year.

However, Marvin doesn't really improve. He hasn't added anything to his game. He hasn't improved any area of his game. He started off a 24% three point shooter as a rookie and now he's a 10% three point shooter. Over the season, he went from shooting 46% to finishing shooting 43.9% over the second half of the season. In his rookie year, he was very tentative. Now he's just a standstill midrange shooter. In his drives, he still drops his head and stumbles over people. Nothing different than before. He's still clumsy. He still doesn't do anything impactful on the floor.

You have quotes about work ethic, however, if you were really astute, you would know that work ethic is seen best in the product... not in talk. Especially not when you have a history of taking summers off.

How did we know that Jordan had a great work ethic? Was it from rumor? Was it from what others said about him? Was it from what the reporters may have stated in their blogs? NO... His work ethic spoke on the court. When he had to get better, he did. When he needed to improve, he did. Where he was weak, he strengthened. This is the issue with Marvin. I'm sure I can find one article with somebody talking good about anybody but Eddy Curry.

Marvin Williams the past 2 seasons:

06 - 07

FG% - 43.5%

Jumper eFG% - 42%

Inside FG% - 51% ( which is horrible for a SF )

FT attempts - 263

FT% - 81%

Draw a Foul% - 13%

07 - 08

FG% - 46%

Jumper eFG% - 41%

Inside FG% - 58% ( which is average for a SF and a huge jump for him )

FT attempts - 409 ( his 336 FT makes led the Hawks )

FT% - 82%

Draw a Foul% - 15%

Nope . . . he didn't improve at all. Not one iota.

[Traceman]

His PER, FG%, FT%, True Shooting %, PPG, SPG, and RBG ALL went up and his TOs and PFs per game went down.

He improved in EVERY signifcant area except 3 PT % and he only took TEN 3's all year. Of those 10, probably half were last second heaves when the shot clock was about to expire. Calling him a 10% 3 pt shooter is a joke considering he obviously didn't take 3's.

For those with eyes, it is EASY to see the Marvin's work in the off season have resulted in improved play each season. It seems to me that he worked hard in the off season to fill a couple of big holes on this team (mid range jump shooting and getting to the line) and he did a very good job at both.

One article? There are at least SIX DIFFERENT articles that speak of Marvin's great work ethic. Coaches (Roy Williams, Woody, Bob Bender), players (T Lue, Sean May) and scouts have ALL attested to Marvin's great work ethic. But I guess none of those guys who actually WATCHED Marvin work on his game in the off season know as much as you do.

Question for you. What kind of work ethic does your boy Shelden have? Based on your criteria, he must not do a damn thing in the off season.

[Chris18]

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His PER, FG%, FT%, True Shooting %, PPG, SPG, and RBG

ALL

went up and his TOs and PFs per game went down.

He improved in EVERY signifcant area except 3 PT % and he only took

TEN

3's all year. Of those 10, probably half were last second heaves when the shot clock was about to expire. Calling him a 10% 3 pt shooter is a joke considering he obviously didn't take 3's.

For those with eyes, it is EASY to see the Marvin's work in the off season have resulted in improved play each season. It seems to me that he worked hard in the off season to fill a couple of big holes on this team (mid range jump shooting and getting to the line) and he did a very good job at both.

One article? There are at least

SIX DIFFERENT

articles that speak of Marvin's great work ethic. Coaches (Roy Williams, Woody, Bob Bender), players (T Lue, Sean May) and scouts have ALL attested to Marvin's great work ethic. But I guess none of those guys who actually WATCHED Marvin work on his game in the off season know as much as you do.

Question for you. What kind of work ethic does your boy Shelden have? Based on your criteria, he must not do a damn thing in the off season.

Diesel doesn't like facts

[TheNorthCydeRises]

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Question for you. What kind of work ethic does your boy Shelden have? Based on your criteria, he must not do a damn thing in the off season.

Shelden is putting in "work" on Candace during the offseason. He could give a damn about basketball.

Kind of like how Grant Hill went from perennial all-star, to always on the injured list . . right after he met Tamia.

[atlien]

The stupidest topic in Hawksquawk history is upon us once again!

I still love how Walter and Diesel think they know what Marvin is or isnt doing in the offseason based on ONE Sekou Smith article (where he didnt even come off as bad as yall are saying).

Jeeez, if you wanna know what Marvin is doing so bad, at least put in the work and stalk the guy. You might get arrested for it, but at least you'll have the chance to live out your fantasy of knowing what Marvin Williams does or does not do on his own time.

Otherwise, it's allll conjecture and reading between the lines.

And Diesel, I cant help but laughing at all your Al Horford praise (not that the guy doesnt deserve it, cuz he most certainly does). If it were up to you and Walter, we'd have freakin Chairman Yi instead! Don't think we forget Mr. 250,000 posts.

[Peoriabird]

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And Diesel, I cant help but laughing at all your Al Horford praise (not that the guy doesnt deserve it, cuz he most certainly does). If it were up to you and Walter, we'd have freakin Chairman Yi instead! Don't think we forget Mr. 250,000 posts.

[Guest Walter]

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Just because Smoove is a better player doesn't mean that Marvin has a poor work ethic.

Yeah. We have MW's own history and words to prove that. I mean come on. This is elite sports. MW might have "everyman" work ethic but in the NBA that falls FLAT. You don't publically admit that until your assistant coach told you to you did not "work on your game" but rather played pick up ball during your offseason. MW's is either lazy or not smart enough to know you don't portray yourself as lazy.

W

[Chris18]

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Just because Smoove is a better player doesn't mean that Marvin has a poor work ethic.

Yeah. We have MW's own history and words to prove that. I mean come on. This is elite sports. MW might have "everyman" work ethic but in the NBA that falls FLAT. You don't publically admit that until your assistant coach told you to you did not "work on your game" but rather played pick up ball during your offseason. MW's is either lazy or not smart enough to know you don't portray yourself as lazy.

W

What's wrong with pickup games? Isn't that basicly what Al is doing this summer on the U.S. select team?

[Diesel]

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Still waiting on an intelligent response to this question, D.

And, yes, I'm going to hijack everyone of your threads until you answer it.

If I didn't know better, I would say your job was working corners for me Mr. H.

[mrhonline]

Hey, D.

You told me where Horford's going to spend the next few weeks.

What's he doing for the rest of the summer?

[Diesel]

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Just because Smoove is a better player doesn't mean that Marvin has a poor work ethic.

Yeah. We have MW's own history and words to prove that. I mean come on. This is elite sports. MW might have "everyman" work ethic but in the NBA that falls FLAT. You don't publically admit that until your assistant coach told you to you did not "work on your game" but rather played pick up ball during your offseason. MW's is either lazy or not smart enough to know you don't portray yourself as lazy.

W

What's wrong with pickup games? Isn't that basicly what Al is doing this summer on the U.S. select team?

Let's see...

Playing against Lebron, Kobe, and Dwight Howard...

or

3 on 3 against Jackie Manuel, Jawad Williams, and Wes Miller...

[Guest Walter]

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You told me where Horford's going to spend the next few weeks.

What's he doing for the rest of the summer?

Not pilates.

W