Attendence is still a massive failure

[Plainview1981]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance

Overall rank is:

1. Detroit

2. Chicago

3. Portland

4. Dallas

5. Utah

6 New York

7 Cleveland

8 LA Lakers

9 Golden State

10 Toronto

11 Boston

12 Oklahoma City

13 Phoenix

14 San Antonio

15 Houston

16 Miami

17 New Orleans

18 Washington

19 Orlando

20 Denver

21 Atlanta

22 Milwaukee

23 New Jersey

24 LA Clippers

25 Philadelphia

26 Indiana

27 Minnesota

28 Charlotte

29 Memphis

30 Sacramento

Washington draws more fans. Attendance is DOWN from last season.

Edited January 2, 2009 by Hotlanta1981

[Diesel]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance

Overall rank is:

1. Detroit

2. Chicago

3. Portland

4. Dallas

5. Utah

6 New York

7 Cleveland

8 LA Lakers

9 Golden State

10 Toronto

11 Boston

12 Oklahoma City

13 Phoenix

14 San Antonio

15 Houston

16 Miami

17 New Orleans

18 Washington

19 Orlando

20 Denver

21 Atlanta

22 Milwaukee

23 New Jersey

24 LA Clippers

25 Philadelphia

26 Indiana

27 Minnesota

28 Charlotte

29 Memphis

30 Sacramento

Washington draws more fans. Attendance is DOWN from last season.

For a major market city that doesn't have a superstar player and has never been to a championship, we're doing OK. When you consider our attendance... you have several factors.

1. We are a major market city. That's good and bad. That means that we're big enough to have the fans that will come out but at the same time, we're so big that they don't have to come out to see the Hawks. You would expect teams like Utah, OK City, and even Sacramento to have better fanbases because there's nothing else for them to do. In Utah, there's the Jazz, Ute sports, and the Mormon church. What else are you going to do?

2. Superstar players. JJ is great, but nationally, JJ is not as well known as Wade, Shaq, Kobe, or Lebron. We lack that superstar power that will bring fans out. I can recall when Jordan was in his prime, he would sell out the OMNI everytime he came out. I often wondered, what if he played for Atlanta. Every homegame would be sold out. Since Nique, we haven't had that type of superstar player who would make the fanbase. However, you see that in Cleveland, Phoenix, and LAL.

3. History. We don't have that history that some of these teams have. Some teams because of their history will always sell out. They've been to the championships, they developed a fan base, and now they sell out. Case in Point: Detroit. They're number one because Joey Dumars developed that team into championship quality.

4. Star Power. You ever recognize that it doesn't matter how much the Knicks suck, they sell out just about every game. Funny thing...I was watching Cwebb, GPayton, and Ahmad and they were talking about Ahmad's tickets to the Knicks game. For GP and CWebb, it was really big that Ahmad had tickets to the Knicks game. Even though the Knicks suck. That's because there's star power in the arena. I think the Hawks can compete here. There's a lot of millionaires in Atlanta. Many in the entertainment industry. Ownership has to learn to use that. Mainly it requires the ownership to get some say as to what happens on the broadcast. Until we win a championship, the focus on the local broadcast should have some excerpts of who's at the game. When Usher, Braves, Falcons, Diddy, etc are at the game, there should be more of a effort to make sure that people know that these people are part of our fanbase. In fact, there should be some free tickets sent to Matt Ryan and other stars who live in the city.

5. Better game experience. The Hawks have to learn from Mark Cuban. When he got to Dallas, he had many of the same issues. Big Market, little fanbase, many transients, and no championships to speak of. However, he decided to make going to the Mavs games an experience. It works. He placed himself in the picture as the ultimate fan of his team and built a trust with the patrons. It works. For a young, vibrant city like Atlanta that's what must be done. Also, it won't hurt if the owners can find a way to control the local media!!!

Hots, I know you're saying how is it OK.

Well, it's OK because when you consider that we're not far removed from an ownership split and the teams owners hands being tied and losing court battles with McDavid.. these owners have weather the storms nicely.

[lunar]

right now i think we are doing ok. if you look at all the preivous years, we've gone up by 500 per game each year. more people are gonna come to the games in the spring and push that avg number up. also, we still haven't gotten to the casual fan yet (those are the ones that show up when boston comes to town). we will only get those fans with runs in the playoffs (thats how sacramento got their fan base started) if we can get a deep run in june (make it to the conference finals) that's when you'll get your dream of having sellout crowds (or your nightmare when ticket prices get unreasonably high and hard to get.)

[Plainview1981]

For a major market city that doesn't have a superstar player and has never been to a championship, we're doing OK. When you consider our attendance... you have several factors.

1. We are a major market city. That's good and bad. That means that we're big enough to have the fans that will come out but at the same time, we're so big that they don't have to come out to see the Hawks. You would expect teams like Utah, OK City, and even Sacramento to have better fanbases because there's nothing else for them to do. In Utah, there's the Jazz, Ute sports, and the Mormon church. What else are you going to do?

2. Superstar players. JJ is great, but nationally, JJ is not as well known as Wade, Shaq, Kobe, or Lebron. We lack that superstar power that will bring fans out. I can recall when Jordan was in his prime, he would sell out the OMNI everytime he came out. I often wondered, what if he played for Atlanta. Every homegame would be sold out. Since Nique, we haven't had that type of superstar player who would make the fanbase. However, you see that in Cleveland, Phoenix, and LAL.

3. History. We don't have that history that some of these teams have. Some teams because of their history will always sell out. They've been to the championships, they developed a fan base, and now they sell out. Case in Point: Detroit. They're number one because Joey Dumars developed that team into championship quality.

4. Star Power. You ever recognize that it doesn't matter how much the Knicks suck, they sell out just about every game. Funny thing...I was watching Cwebb, GPayton, and Ahmad and they were talking about Ahmad's tickets to the Knicks game. For GP and CWebb, it was really big that Ahmad had tickets to the Knicks game. Even though the Knicks suck. That's because there's star power in the arena. I think the Hawks can compete here. There's a lot of millionaires in Atlanta. Many in the entertainment industry. Ownership has to learn to use that. Mainly it requires the ownership to get some say as to what happens on the broadcast. Until we win a championship, the focus on the local broadcast should have some excerpts of who's at the game. When Usher, Braves, Falcons, Diddy, etc are at the game, there should be more of a effort to make sure that people know that these people are part of our fanbase. In fact, there should be some free tickets sent to Matt Ryan and other stars who live in the city.

5. Better game experience. The Hawks have to learn from Mark Cuban. When he got to Dallas, he had many of the same issues. Big Market, little fanbase, many transients, and no championships to speak of. However, he decided to make going to the Mavs games an experience. It works. He placed himself in the picture as the ultimate fan of his team and built a trust with the patrons. It works. For a young, vibrant city like Atlanta that's what must be done. Also, it won't hurt if the owners can find a way to control the local media!!!

Hots, I know you're saying how is it OK.

Well, it's OK because when you consider that we're not far removed from an ownership split and the teams owners hands being tied and losing court battles with McDavid.. these owners have weather the storms nicely.

I don't think this excuses everything. The attendance not increasing really at all after last seasons first round series should be leaving you scratching your head. I didn't expect a major increase, but c'mon. You would think the crowd would improve at least some. The winning doesn't seem to be paying off either. I know I haven't been to a game, but I live way outside of Atlanta. You would think this city is big enough to outdraw teams like Washington. They have a 4 win team right now and haven't had that much success the last 20 years either and they still draw more fans.

[josh_pwns_newbs]

check out road avg's

we are ranked 6th!

everyone wants to see the hawks (except hawks fans)

[Plainview1981]

check out road avg's

we are ranked 6th!

everyone wants to see the hawks (except hawks fans)

Kind of like there are Brave fans everywhere but Atlanta it seems.

[Diesel]

I don't think this excuses everything. The attendance not increasing really at all after last seasons first round series should be leaving you scratching your head. I didn't expect a major increase, but c'mon. You would think the crowd would improve at least some. The winning doesn't seem to be paying off either. I know I haven't been to a game, but I live way outside of Atlanta. You would think this city is big enough to outdraw teams like Washington. They have a 4 win team right now and haven't had that much success the last 20 years either and they still draw more fans.

If you go back over the list I gave, there are several areas that we are deficient... I agree. But mainly, the thing our owners must do is make the game more of an event. That starts with lowering the price of a ticket and offer more than just a game... you have to offer an experience. WInning Helps.

But after the embarrassment of our past 3 years, after missing out on Chris Paul and Roy. I think it's good that fans come out in the numbers you quoted. One strong playoff series is not enough to make fans. You have to understand, we have a lot of transients in the city. What we have to have is us competing for 1. The top of the EC in record. 2. Getting to the ECF. 3. Making the games an experience. I think we can do all three.

[Plainview1981]

If you go back over the list I gave, there are several areas that we are deficient... I agree. But mainly, the thing our owners must do is make the game more of an event. That starts with lowering the price of a ticket and offer more than just a game... you have to offer an experience. WInning Helps.

But after the embarrassment of our past 3 years, after missing out on Chris Paul and Roy. I think it's good that fans come out in the numbers you quoted. One strong playoff series is not enough to make fans. You have to understand, we have a lot of transients in the city. What we have to have is us competing for 1. The top of the EC in record. 2. Getting to the ECF. 3. Making the games an experience. I think we can do all three.

I understand. But to have basically no increase is not a good sign. If the team keeps a reasonable record throughout the rest of the season and into the playoffs and the fans still aren't coming out... Not good. You give alot of reasons about the city and all... But in that case, perhaps Atlanta simply doesn't deserve a team. You can't keep a team in Atlanta to keep a selective few happy. We talk about the transients in the city, the needing of a superstar and possibly even a championship team also. I'm sorry, but if you need a thousand different things to happen to have fans... Perhaps the team would be better off somewhere else.

I'm torn because I could understand the fans frustration on one hand, but on the other I still expected better after the first round last year. Overall, when people say that Atlanta doesn't deserve their teams... I might just have to agree.

[exodus]

I understand. But to have basically no increase is not a good sign. If the team keeps a reasonable record throughout the rest of the season and into the playoffs and the fans still aren't coming out... Not good. You give alot of reasons about the city and all... But in that case, perhaps Atlanta simply doesn't deserve a team. You can't keep a team in Atlanta to keep a selective few happy. We talk about the transients in the city, the needing of a superstar and possibly even a championship team also. I'm sorry, but if you need a thousand different things to happen to have fans... Perhaps the team would be better off somewhere else.

I'm torn because I could understand the fans frustration on one hand, but on the other I still expected better after the first round last year. Overall, when people say that Atlanta doesn't deserve their teams... I might just have to agree.

You do realize we are in a recession, right? Of course people are going to be tighter with their money with regards to entertainment spending.

Ranking 21st in attendance is hardly a massive failure given the decade of losing the Hawks have been through.

[Plainview1981]

You do realize we are in a recession, right? Of course people are going to be tighter with their money with regards to entertainment spending.

Ranking 21st in attendance is hardly a massive failure given the decade of losing the Hawks have been through.

Does the recession just effect Atlanta? Not last time I checked. With the recession going on that didn't stop The Dark Knight from becoming 2# all time at the box office. That doesn't stop NY'ers and others from going to the games even with a crappy product. A 4 win team is outdrawing a 21-10 team. Without the recession I still doubt it would be alot different. Atlanta is still going to be Atlanta.

There are lots of excuses. But the bottom line is that for really good attendance everything will have to be perfect. As much as we all want that, it's not a reality. The thing is that you can't make a real argument that Atlanta is deserving of it's teams.

On top of that, watching the games it's hard to believe the Hawks average 16,000+ per night. On the road, the Hawks draw well this year. But yet, the home fans can't manage to do it. Heck. I doubt many follow the team at all.

Edited January 2, 2009 by Hotlanta1981

[frosgrim]

Does the recession just effect Atlanta? Not last time I checked. With the recession going on that didn't stop The Dark Knight from becoming 2# all time at the box office. That doesn't stop NY'ers and others from going to the games even with a crappy product. A 4 win team is outdrawing a 21-10 team. Without the recession I still doubt it would be alot different. Atlanta is still going to be Atlanta.

There are lots of excuses. But the bottom line is that for really good attendance everything will have to be perfect. As much as we all want that, it's not a reality. The thing is that you can't make a real argument that Atlanta is deserving of it's teams.

On top of that, watching the games it's hard to believe the Hawks average 16,000+ per night. On the road, the Hawks draw well this year. But yet, the home fans can't manage to do it. Heck. I doubt many follow the team at all.

Comparing a movie to an NBA ticket is disingenous.

Second, Atlanta is being hit really hard by the recession. We have one of the higher unemployment rates in the nation right now. What is especially damaging is that with all the corporate restructuring, Atlanta is getting hit hard in the white collar workforce, the same people that buy Hawks tickets.

Could we be better in attendence? Of course, but there are a lot of mitagating factors.

Oh, the other thing that I think is hurting the Hawks is that there is absolutely no buzz for the team on the local sports talk. None. 680 might as well be the college football network (I am so sick of college football right now). 790 is only slight better, which is innane as they are the home radio station. The Hawks need to push daily or weekly radio shows to get more of a buzz on the team. Right now there is no voice of the Atlanta Hawks, and that hurts the team.

[khaos7]

Comparing a movie to an NBA ticket is disingenous.

Second, Atlanta is being hit really hard by the recession. We have one of the higher unemployment rates in the nation right now. What is especially damaging is that with all the corporate restructuring, Atlanta is getting hit hard in the white collar workforce, the same people that buy Hawks tickets.

Could we be better in attendence? Of course, but there are a lot of mitagating factors.

Oh, the other thing that I think is hurting the Hawks is that there is absolutely no buzz for the team on the local sports talk. None. 680 might as well be the college football network (I am so sick of college football right now). 790 is only slight better, which is innane as they are the home radio station. The Hawks need to push daily or weekly radio shows to get more of a buzz on the team. Right now there is no voice of the Atlanta Hawks, and that hurts the team.

I'm with you on this 1000%. 790 does a fair job...at best. They are supposed to be the flagship station. Yet, after 6:30pm in most areas in the metro area, you can't hear them (let alone a Hawks game at 7:00pm or later). 680 treats them as an after thought. It's a joke. Unlike most ATL natives, I'm not a part of the majority that clamors for college football (Georgia Bulldogs football more specifically) and its ridiculous BCS Bowl System. The Hawks fanbase is severely underserved. This city actually loves basketball. The ratings prove it. The way the city embraced the Hawks in the 80's and parts of the 90's proves it as well. The abundance of losing turned a lot of people off. That coupled with the influx of people moving in from other cities (with loyalties to teams from their hometowns) play a major role in the attendance. That said, we are on the upswing. You'd think the team would get more pub from local stations. Funny thing is, when Hawks talk comes up on the local stations, its hard to call in. At least that has been my experience.

[h2t]

You do realize we are in a recession, right? Of course people are going to be tighter with their money with regards to entertainment spending.

Ranking 21st in attendance is hardly a massive failure given the decade of losing the Hawks have been through.

This.

Guys, one playoff series doesn't make up for a decade of losing. It's gonna take awhile for casual fans around ATL to plop down $ for season tickets..or for them to think the game experience against a team like the Thunder is gonna be worth driving a hour both ways and spending $250 on your family of 4.

Having the Falcons and Braves around certainly doesn't help.

[exodus]

Does the recession just effect Atlanta? Not last time I checked. With the recession going on that didn't stop The Dark Knight from becoming 2# all time at the box office. That doesn't stop NY'ers and others from going to the games even with a crappy product. A 4 win team is outdrawing a 21-10 team. Without the recession I still doubt it would be alot different. Atlanta is still going to be Atlanta.

There are lots of excuses. But the bottom line is that for really good attendance everything will have to be perfect. As much as we all want that, it's not a reality. The thing is that you can't make a real argument that Atlanta is deserving of it's teams.

On top of that, watching the games it's hard to believe the Hawks average 16,000+ per night. On the road, the Hawks draw well this year. But yet, the home fans can't manage to do it. Heck. I doubt many follow the team at all.

Look at your comments earlier in the thread.

But to have basically no increase is not a good sign. If the team keeps a reasonable record throughout the rest of the season and into the playoffs and the fans still aren't coming out... Not good.

The attendance not increasing really at all after last seasons first round series should be leaving you scratching your head

You seem to be mystified as to why there isn't a big attendence increase from last year. Do you really think the recession and stock market crash have nothing to do with it?

[Dejay]

Oh, good grief, are we doing this thread on home attendance AGAIN? Seriously? As a poster said earlier, one seven-game first round series does not make up for....

Nine straight years in the lottery

Chris Paul in Hornet gear

'With the 5th selection of the NBA draft, the Atlanta Hawks select Shelden Williams'

The owners still feuding in court

Factor in the rising unemployment rate and a slumping economy and you have what you have right now. The transients here aren't spending one red penny of their $$$ on the Hawks unless Kobe, Labron, Wade, the Celtics, or their hometown team shows up. Pimping JJ, Smith, Horford, and Bibby on billboards downtown to put it in ebonic terms, 'ain't gone get it'. There's a reason why Turner Field is empty until the Cubs or Red Sox come to town and 20-25,000 of their fans magically appear, only never to be seen again after the ballgame. Them's the facts and I really don't blame them; if I was anywhere else, I'd never step foot in a stadium/arena unless my favorites (i.e., Falcons, Braves, Hawks, Thrashers, or UTennessee) were involved, either. Meanwhile, the longtime residents here are of the 'show me' mentality; they aren't paying $$$ either until they validate themselves in the playoffs. They've been burned sooooo many times by the Braves failing in October and the Hawks not getting it done the last time they were any good that they won't believe anything (insert local team here) do until its done when it 'matters'.

Speaking of attendance, the Minnesota Vikings and Arizona Cardinals both asked for and received extensions from the NFL because they failed to sell out, which would cause a blackout for their local fanbases. Both of those teams got in through the skin of their teeth (see Vikings, Minnesota) or went into a tailspin after winning a weak division (see Cardinals, Arizona) and their fans aren't 'buying' into either of them. So I guess the 'show me' approach to supporting a team isn't an 'Atlanta' thing as many nationally would suggest.

GAME, SET, MATCH.

Edited January 2, 2009 by Dejay

[HawkItus]

Why are people always so quick to help others spend their money? Do you attend every Hawks game Hotlanta? Do you do it with a family? It's the recession, it's the logistics, it's the losing culture we're are just overcoming, it's the falcons having a playoff year. This thing is going to take at least another year of winning and winning big to get the numbers up.

[tonegully]

1. Recession

When a NFL team cant sell out a playoff game. There is really some problems with our economy.

2. Ownership problems

3. MARKETING!!!!

You have to market the team. You have to market your superstar. The hawks have to do a better marketing job. Personally if i was the owner of the team and we were playing someone like the Thunder. Why not just give away the tickets to the upper level to like the Boys and Girls Club. Marketing is just as important as winning. In times like this you have to reach out to the fans and encourage them to come out.

4. JUST WIN BABY.

If we win, the fans will come.

[Vol4ever]

I've been a Hawks fan for over 30 years and the Hawks have never had complete support of the city of Atlanta. When we had very good teams with Nique, Roundfield, Moses Malone, and others in the 90s and we did not sell out until the playoff series each year with Boston.

Sad, but that is just the way it is.

[DrReality]

I think the fans are coming around . . . . but the economy sure hasn't helped anything.

[Kimsey]

I'm glad Fros mentioned the economy because nobody else did. It's getting worse (for most) every month for the forseeable future. Detroit at the top is kind of mind boggling tho considering their city's overall financial situation.