Attendence is still a massive failure

[Dakin]

Maybe the stigma of the omni is a factor, but the downtown area is still ghetto and tacky. There is no atmosphere or anything around the arena that makes people excited to go to the game. I love watching the Hawks, but the process of getting to my seat is a total drag. And it's not like there's anything in the area to do after the game.

I do like the $5 tall boys at the cnn center before the game, though.

Edited January 3, 2009 by Dakin

[PureGreatness]

Radio stations in ATL need to do a better. they NEVER talk about the hawks. People just don't give a damn about the hawks. People will say its the economy and a recession but its not.

people in atl are cheap.

[DominiqueWilkins]

Radio stations in ATL need to do a better. they NEVER talk about the hawks. People just don't give a damn about the hawks. People will say its the economy and a recession but its not.

people in atl are cheap.

How does the radio stations benefit by helping the Atlanta Hawks? The Atlanta Hawks win and it leaves the radio stations with nothing. Theres just going to be a very limited amount of pub from the radio stations, unless they plan on being around or at the arena, and that's not going to happen if a deals not struck. If the ASG wants free advertisement it's not going to happen.

I'm starting to see some billboards around the highways, but theres not exactly pointed directly at the highway, so there angled, and that tells me the marketing section have a limited amount of resources.

I don't think the people of Atlanta are cheap, I just feel there are so many things they can do, and watching the Atlanta Hawks isn't a first priority.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Follow up:

So I'm in ATL Saturday night, without a ticket. When I'm in that situation, I don't mind one bit going to the scalpers to buy my ticket. I stick to my guns, and tell myself to pay no more than face value for one of the 200 - 207 level tickets. ( $40 - $60 )

So it's literally 10 minutes before 7 pm, and I'm looking to buy a ticket. Scalper comes to me and I ask for a 200 level ticket. He has two 200 level tickets together, and a 102 level ticket. 102 level ticket retails for $125, so I'm not going for that. He tries to get me to buy two of the 200 level tickets because he didn't want to break them up . . or give him at least $80 for the 102 level ticket. I stick to my guns and tell him I'm not spending more than $60.

I got the 102 level ticket for $60. First time sitting on the club level side . . and that ish was NIIIIIICEEE! The women on the club level side . . . wooo. Food is much, much better as well. And where I was sitting, I even got to see the football playoff games, because they had a plasma flat screen set up on the floor.

That ticket price was good for me, but that also speaks volumes about the availability and demand for tickets to Hawks games.

For a game like Houston, I fully expected the game to be sold out, and have a hard time getting a good ticket 10 minutes before gametime.

But as I was watching the game and peeping the crowd, I noticed a TON of empty seats in the 300 level areas that neve filled in. The supposedly "CHEAP" seats. Overall, it was a nice crowd ( I think 16,000 + . . which is our season average ). But for a weekend game against one of the better teams in the West, you'd expect the arena to be at capacity level.

The people who claim to be fans of this team, just need to get to the arena every once in a while. There are GOOD SEATS AVAILABLE to almost every Hawks game. People have to want to see the HAWKS . . not to see some other team with better known stars. Until that changes, we'll always be below 15th in attendance.

And that's a shame.

[Guest]

Follow up:

So I'm in ATL Saturday night, without a ticket. When I'm in that situation, I don't mind one bit going to the scalpers to buy my ticket. I stick to my guns, and tell myself to pay no more than face value for one of the 200 - 207 level tickets. ( $40 - $60 )

I firmly believe the best way to go is scalpers. I only paid above face value once (Boston regular season game last year towards the end). I will normally spend $10 on a 200 level ticket.

[Admin]

Follow up:

So I'm in ATL Saturday night, without a ticket. When I'm in that situation, I don't mind one bit going to the scalpers to buy my ticket. I stick to my guns, and tell myself to pay no more than face value for one of the 200 - 207 level tickets. ( $40 - $60 )

So it's literally 10 minutes before 7 pm, and I'm looking to buy a ticket. Scalper comes to me and I ask for a 200 level ticket. He has two 200 level tickets together, and a 102 level ticket. 102 level ticket retails for $125, so I'm not going for that. He tries to get me to buy two of the 200 level tickets because he didn't want to break them up . . or give him at least $80 for the 102 level ticket. I stick to my guns and tell him I'm not spending more than $60.

I got the 102 level ticket for $60. First time sitting on the club level side . . and that ish was NIIIIIICEEE! The women on the club level side . . . wooo. Food is much, much better as well. And where I was sitting, I even got to see the football playoff games, because they had a plasma flat screen set up on the floor.

That ticket price was good for me, but that also speaks volumes about the availability and demand for tickets to Hawks games.

For a game like Houston, I fully expected the game to be sold out, and have a hard time getting a good ticket 10 minutes before gametime.

But as I was watching the game and peeping the crowd, I noticed a TON of empty seats in the 300 level areas that neve filled in. The supposedly "CHEAP" seats. Overall, it was a nice crowd ( I think 16,000 + . . which is our season average ). But for a weekend game against one of the better teams in the West, you'd expect the arena to be at capacity level.

The people who claim to be fans of this team, just need to get to the arena every once in a while. There are GOOD SEATS AVAILABLE to almost every Hawks game. People have to want to see the HAWKS . . not to see some other team with better known stars. Until that changes, we'll always be below 15th in attendance.

And that's a shame.

I'd bet that the Falcons game had a lot to do with why the Hawks game had some of their empty seats. Probably a lot of depressed fans that didn't want to go out after that game. I know when the Dolphins lost Sunday I didn't even want think about any other sports that day.

[Admin]

I firmly believe the best way to go is scalpers. I only paid above face value once (Boston regular season game last year towards the end). I will normally spend $10 on a 200 level ticket.

You guys are nuts buying from scalpers. I don't know how often they run stings there in Atlanta but it seems that every time I've been to a game here in Houston whether it's the Rockets, Texans, or Astros somebody is always getting busted in a sting from buying from a "scalper". I'd rather pay full price than risk going to jail for 24 hours and paying a lot more in the long run plus miss the game LOL.

[AHF]

You guys are nuts buying from scalpers. I don't know how often they run stings there in Atlanta but it seems that every time I've been to a game here in Houston whether it's the Rockets, Texans, or Astros somebody is always getting busted in a sting from buying from a "scalper". I'd rather pay full price than risk going to jail for 24 hours and paying a lot more in the long run plus miss the game LOL.

Is it illegal to buy a ticket for less than face value? I don't know anything about the law on this but I would think that it is only illegal to scalp the ticket for more than face value.

[Diesel]

Is it illegal to buy a ticket for less than face value? I don't know anything about the law on this but I would think that it is only illegal to scalp the ticket for more than face value.

Isn't our whole economy based on the free market? If I bought season tickets and wanted to get some money back on a game that I can't get into, then why shouldn't I be able to sell the tickets??? Ebay? Hello. It really doesn't matter what value the I sell the ticket... If I had tickets to see Michael Jackson's last American concert.. I bought them for $500.00 and I wanted to sell them for $1000.00 once the concert was sold out.. that's not illegal.. Hell, that's capitalism. Believe me.. I watched the price of the Wii go from $249 to $600 over the christmas Holidays. Store owners said: Supply and demand.

[exodus]

Is it illegal to buy a ticket for less than face value? I don't know anything about the law on this but I would think that it is only illegal to scalp the ticket for more than face value.

I dont think it is a price issue. If i am not mistaken the scalping rule is more of a distance issue. I think you have to be a certain distance from the arena to sell tickets legally but i forget what the distance is.

[AHF]

Isn't our whole economy based on the free market? If I bought season tickets and wanted to get some money back on a game that I can't get into, then why shouldn't I be able to sell the tickets??? Ebay? Hello. It really doesn't matter what value the I sell the ticket... If I had tickets to see Michael Jackson's last American concert.. I bought them for $500.00 and I wanted to sell them for $1000.00 once the concert was sold out.. that's not illegal.. Hell, that's capitalism. Believe me.. I watched the price of the Wii go from $249 to $600 over the christmas Holidays. Store owners said: Supply and demand.

There are scalping laws that limit this - and don't apply to Wii's!

Here is a 2006 summary I pulled off the internet:

STATE-BY-STATE CAPSULE SUMMARIES

Alabama

• Requires ticket scalpers to pay a $ 100 license tax (Ala. Code § 40-12-167)

Arizona

• Allows a ticket purchased for resale to be sold if the sale occurs more than 200 feet from an event (Ariz. Rev. Stat. § 13-3718)

Arkansas

• Prohibits scalping tickets to collegiate or high school sporting events or any charitable event

• Prohibits scalping tickets to musical events but allows resellers to impose a reasonable service charge (Ark. Stat. § 5-63-201)

California

• Allows tickets purchased for resale to be sold but prohibits reselling on the grounds of an event except with permission (Cal. Penal Code § 346)

Connecticut

• Prohibits scalping tickets but allows resellers to impose a reasonable service charge up to $ 3 (CGS § 53-289)

Delaware

• Generally allows scalping, but prohibits it on the day preceding and the day of (1) events held at the Bob Carpenter Center of the University of Delaware and (2) NASCAR races held at Dover Downs (Del. Code § 913)

Florida

• Allows resellers to charge $ 1 more than face value of tickets (1) for passage or accommodations on common carriers, (2) to multi-day or multi-event tickets to a park or entertainment complex, or (3) sold through an Internet website that does not meet statutory criteria

• Allows tickets sold through an Internet website that meets the following criteria to resell tickets without price limits

o Website must be authorized by original seller

o Must guarantee full refund if the event is cancelled, the purchaser is denied admission through no fault of his own, or the ticket is not delivered in the way the purchaser requests and this results in an inability to attend the event

o Website must disclose its guarantees and that it is not the original issuer, seller, or reseller and does not control the pricing

• Explicitly states that it does not authorize reselling tickets on the property where an event is taking place (Fla. Stat. § 817. 36)

Georgia

• Requires ticket resellers to be registered

• Prohibits anyone other than a registered ticket broker from selling a ticket for more than face value plus $ 3 service charge, unless the event sponsor authorizes a higher amount

• Authorizes an event sponsor to restrict purchaser's ability to resell a ticket

• Sets standards for registered ticket brokers, including (1) maintaining a permanent office in-state, (2) paying a $ 500 annual registration fee, and (3) disclosing its refund policy

• Allows brokers to sell tickets at their permanent offices or through the Internet

• Prohibits ticket brokers from (1) hiring employees to buy tickets to future events, (2) acquiring more than 1% of the tickets to any event

• Establishes other requirements, including ticket refund if event is cancelled

• Prohibits reselling within 1,500 feet of venues with a seating capacity under 15,000 and within 2,700 feet of larger venues

• Allows original purchasers of tickets for personal use to resell for any price except within the 1,500 foot or 2,700 foot buffer zones

• Allows charities to resell tickets as a fundraising activity without registering or being subject to price limits

• Allows event sponsors to permit ticket reselling within the buffer zones (Ga. Code §§ 43-4B-25 to 43-4B-31)

Hawaii

• Prohibits scalping tickets to boxing matches (Haw. Rev. Stat. § 440-17)

Illinois

• Allows ticket resale by registered ticket brokers, Internet auction houses, and Internet websites

• Prohibits an event sponsor from restricting purchaser's ability to resell a ticket if the reseller is registered

• Sets standards for registered ticket brokers, including (1) maintaining a permanent office in-state, (2) paying $ 100 annual registration fee, and (3) disclosing their refund policy

• Broker's principal business must be reselling tickets

• Must maintain $ 100,000 cash account in Illinois available to satisfy valid consumer complaints

• Brokers can meet statutory consumer protection requirements, including the requirement to keep a cash account, by belonging to an association that is specifically dedicated to meeting them

• Prohibits a broker from selling tickets “near the facility”

• Internet auction houses and Internet websites must meet substantially similar requirements, except that auction sites must also register as auction houses and both types of sites must adopt an independent and disinterested dispute resolution procedure to settle disputes between ticket resellers and purchasers (720 ILCS §§ 375/. 01 to 375/4)

Indiana

• Prohibits scalping tickets to boxing matches (Ind. Code § 25-9-1-26

Kentucky

• Prohibits ticket scalping without authorization of the original seller (Ky. Rev. Stat. § 518. 070)

Louisiana

• Prohibits ticket scalping except through the Internet

• Allows tickets sold through an Internet website that meets the following criteria to resell tickets without price limits

o Website must be authorized by original seller and venue

o Must guarantee full refund if the event is cancelled, the purchaser is denied admission through no fault of his own, or the ticket is not delivered as promised and this results in an inability to attend the event

o Website must disclose its guarantees (La. Rev. Stat. § 4: 1)

Maryland

• Prohibits boxing, wrestling, and kickboxing promoters from allowing the sale of tickets for more than the admission price (Md. Code § 43-318)

Massachusetts

• Requires a license to resell tickets to state-licensed entertainment and athletic events

• Allows resellers to impose reasonable service charges (Mass. Gen. Laws Ch. 140 §§185A to 185G)

Michigan

• Prohibits ticket scalping

• Apparently prohibits season ticket holders and other ticket package purchasers from selling their tickets. Specifically, the law states that the purchaser may not sell his ticket if (1) the original ticket seller sells tickets under restrictive conditions at a lower rate than general admission, (2) the purchaser's name appears on the ticket or is registered in the seller's office as the ticket holder, and (3) the ticket states that it is not transferable and sold only to the named purchaser (Mich. Comp. Laws § 750. 465)

Minnesota

• Prohibits scalping tickets but allows resellers to impose a service charge (Minn. Stat. § 609. 805)

Mississippi

• Prohibits scalping tickets to collegiate athletic events and to any event held on state property (Miss. Code Ann. § 97-23-97)

Missouri

• Prohibits scalping tickets but allows resellers to impose a service charge (Mo. Rev. Stat. § 578. 395)

New Jersey

• Requires anyone engaged in the business of ticket reselling to register

• Sets standards for registered ticket brokers, including (1) maintaining a permanent office in-state, (2) paying an annual registration fee that may be as much as $ 500, and (3) disclosing its refund policy

• Prohibits using “diggers,” or people temporarily hired to secure tickets by intimidating purchasers waiting in line to buy tickets

• Requires brokers to disclose when they are employing “try and get,” which is accepting a ticket order before possessing the tickets

• Must file a $ 10,000 bond conditioned on the promise that the broker and employees will not be guilty of fraud, extortion, or violation of the ticket broker law

• Limits the amount above face value that someone who is not a registered ticket broker or season ticket holder may charge to the greater of $ 3 or 20% of face value

• Limits the amount above face value that someone who is a registered ticket broker or season ticket holder to 50% above the amount paid for the ticket

• Prohibits reselling tickets in the vicinity of an event except in designated areas

• Prohibits giving anything valuable to an event employee to obtain tickets

• Prohibits original sellers from holding back more than 5% of the tickets

• Requires the licensing agency and event sponsors to create a way for season ticket and other ticket holders to legally sell their tickets back to the venue (N. J. Rev. Stat. §§ 56: 8-26 to 56: 8-38)

New Mexico

• Prohibits scalping tickets to collegiate sporting events but allows resellers to impose a service charge (N. M. Stat. Ann. § 30-46-1)

New York

• Requires ticket resellers to be licensed by locality in which it operates and to post a bond conditioned that the reseller will not be guilty of fraud, extortion, or violation of the ticket broker law

• Sets maximum reselling price of the face value of the ticket plus 45% if the venue seats more than 6,000 or the face value plus 20% if the venue is smaller

• Allows resellers to add a reasonable service charge

• Allows operators of venues to manage Internet websites to resell tickets within the maximum reselling price

• Requires resellers, or anyone that facilitates reselling, to guarantee that it will refund the amount paid by a purchaser if the event is cancelled, the purchaser is denied admission through no fault of his own, or the ticket does not conform to its advertised description

• Requires resellers to post a $ 25,000 bond conditioned on the promise that the agency will not be guilty of fraud, extortion, or violation of the ticket reselling law

• Prohibits reselling tickets within 1,500 feet of a venue seating more than 5,000, but allows operators to designate reselling areas within that zone

• Prohibits anyone from paying a venue employee a commission, gratuity, or bonus in connection with the sale of tickets

• Exempts charities that use the profits wholly for their charitable purposes (N. Y Arts & Cult. Aff. § 25. 01 to 25. 35)

North Carolina

• Prohibits scalping tickets but allows resellers to impose a reasonable service charge up to $ 3 (N. C. Gen. Stat. § 14-344)

Ohio

• Authorizes municipalities to regulate (Ohio Rev. Code § 715. 48)

Rhode Island

• Prohibits scalping tickets but allows resellers to impose a reasonable service charge up to the greater of $ 3 or 10% of its face value (R. I. Gen Law § 5-22-26)

South Carolina

• Prohibits scalping tickets but allows resellers to impose a reasonable service charge of up to $ 1 (S. C. Code Ann. § 16-17-710)

Virginia

• Authorizes localities to prohibit ticket scalping, except by religious or charitable organizations engaged in fundraising (Va. Code Ann. § 15. 2-969)

Wisconsin

• Prohibits scalping tickets to the state fair (Wis. Stat. § 42. 07)

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2006/rpt/2006-R-0761.htm

[macdaddy]

So if you bought the tickets yourself you can sell them for any price if your not in the buffer zone unless the hawks are ok with selling in the buffer zone. In which case its all legal. Scalping is good if you are by yourself but try to take a family and get 4 from a scalper.

As far as attendance please remember that about 40% of our arena is off limits to the general public for single game tickets leaving a whole bunch of crappy seats. I just think the casual fan doesn't have that great of an experience at Philips.

[AHF]

So if you bought the tickets yourself you can sell them for any price if your not in the buffer zone

Not in Georgia.

Georgia law "Prohibits anyone other than a registered ticket broker from selling a ticket for more than face value plus $ 3 service charge, unless the event sponsor authorizes a higher amount"

[Swish]

I'd bet that the Falcons game had a lot to do with why the Hawks game had some of their empty seats. Probably a lot of depressed fans that didn't want to go out after that game. I know when the Dolphins lost Sunday I didn't even want think about any other sports that day.

Yeah, it sucked the Fins lost, especially for the Titans because I would've rather seen the Chargers come to town, but hey, the Fins had a great season. Division champs over annoying SOBs like New England and NYJ!

[Dejay]

I'd bet that the Falcons game had a lot to do with why the Hawks game had some of their empty seats. Probably a lot of depressed fans that didn't want to go out after that game. I know when the Dolphins lost Sunday I didn't even want think about any other sports that day.

You hit it right on the head, bullseye on the mark. After the Falcons game, I was in no mood for basketball, hockey, or any conversation that didn't involve f-bombs being dropped. The sad thing is that I had gotten tickets for the Hawks game and planned to go but the way the Falcons game ended (thanks, Keith Brooking) took it out of me. My wife and kids enjoyed the game though....

[macdaddy]

Not in Georgia.

Georgia law "Prohibits anyone other than a registered ticket broker from selling a ticket for more than face value plus $ 3 service charge, unless the event sponsor authorizes a higher amount"

I was looking at this line:

Allows original purchasers of tickets for personal use to resell for any price except within the 1,500 foot or 2,700 foot buffer zones

[AHF]

I was looking at this line:

Allows original purchasers of tickets for personal use to resell for any price except within the 1,500 foot or 2,700 foot buffer zones

That is right - as long as you aren't selling them on a regular basis. There is an exemption from the law for individuals selling their personal tickets (but doesn't create a loophole for someone who wants to scalp tickets purchased for the purpose of resale).

§ 43-4B-29. Resale of tickets by original purchaser; charitable organizations

(a) No provision of this article or any other provision of law shall criminally prohibit any person who is the original purchaser for personal use of one or more tickets to an athletic contest or entertainment event covered under this article from reselling or offering for resale any of such tickets for any price, provided that such person does not sell or offer to sell such tickets within 2,700 feet of a venue which seats or admits 15,000 or more persons for such a contest or event or a public entrance to such a contest or event.

[Traceman]

[rant]

You gotta love the ATL natives.

They blame everything . . except straight up fan apathy . . which runs rampant in ATL. That's the #1 reason why the Hawks can't get the support they should be getting. And that's why people say it's a bad sports town.

Now crucify me for saying that. The numbers speak for themselves.

Unless a marquee name team comes to town, the people just flat out don't show up like they should. It's 4+ million people in metro ATL . . and people can't even support a GOOD Hawks team, like the other good teams and their fans do?

Portland is #3 on that list.

Fuggin Oklahoma City is #12.

Even New Orleans, a city that damn near got washed off the map, is #17.

Recession . . mecession. The recession doesn't hurt those who have the money to go to these games, which are usually the middle and upper class folks. The Hawks have all kinds of promotions going on, from the "all you can eat" seats, to "game packs" to the different "family nights" they have. No excuse for people to make a concerted effort to see this team . . . ESPECIALLY THIS YEAR!!

I'll be at Philips tomorrow night . . driving from almost 300 miles away . . to see the Hawks for the 4th time this season. And some of you can't even spend $20 - $50 on a single ticket . . or make one family outing a month, to support the Hawks?

Forget the team . . . the FANS need to RISE UP!!

[/rant]

I agree with a lot of your post but I think you are seriously underestimating the effect that the recession is having on attendance (not just for the Hawks either - I'm sure the recession is hitting other teams hard as well). I have been a Hawks and Falcons season ticketholder since I moved back to Atlanta in '96 and '09 will be the first year that I even blink with regard to renewing with both teams. I got married in May and me and the wifey are still trying to combine two households. Trying to sell a house right now is pretty rough to say the least. When you are paying two mortgages and considering starting a family in the near future, all of a sudden, season tickets to the Hawks and Falcons might not be at the top of the list of your priorities. Thank God gas prices have fallen significantly or it would be even worse.

More than likely, I will end up renewing my Hawks season tickets (I have already done so with the Falcons) but it is not a given and the recession is the only reason why. As diehard a fan as I am, I can certainly see why some folks choose not to buy season tickets as this time.

All that said, the ATL IS a bandwagon sports town. We need to be exciting and we need to win to consistently draw a big crowd. I think the team is doing its part on the floor (marketing could still be better) but the recession is likely keeping away a significant number of people who might otherwise already be on the bandwagon.