Attendence is still a massive failure

[lunar]

its not like detroit has anything else to do. besides, they've built their fanbase with over 2 decades worth of winning. i can't remember the last time the pistons were irrelevant.

[Plainview1981]

Comparing a movie to an NBA ticket is disingenous.

People are still spending money on entertainment. That's my point.

Second, Atlanta is being hit really hard by the recession. We have one of the higher unemployment rates in the nation right now. What is especially damaging is that with all the corporate restructuring, Atlanta is getting hit hard in the white collar workforce, the same people that buy Hawks tickets.

My nephew and brother in law just got laid off. Even with the recession other places are still doing well. But as I said, with no recession I still believe there would be low attendance. Atlanta is going to be Atlanta. It's surprise at all.

[Plainview1981]

Look at your comments earlier in the thread.

You seem to be mystified as to why there isn't a big attendence increase from last year. Do you really think the recession and stock market crash have nothing to do with it?

"QUOTE (Hotlanta1981)

I don't think this excuses everything. The attendance not increasing really at all after last seasons first round series should be leaving you scratching your head. I didn't expect a major increase, but c'mon. You would think the crowd would improve at least some. The winning doesn't seem to be paying off either. I know I haven't been to a game, but I live way outside of Atlanta. You would think this city is big enough to outdraw teams like Washington. They have a 4 win team right now and haven't had that much success the last 20 years either and they still draw more fans."

Please read again. I didn't say I expected a big increase. Stop stretching what people say.

[Plainview1981]

I've been a Hawks fan for over 30 years and the Hawks have never had complete support of the city of Atlanta. When we had very good teams with Nique, Roundfield, Moses Malone, and others in the 90s and we did not sell out until the playoff series each year with Boston.

Sad, but that is just the way it is.

That's how it is. Sultanofatl says I'm trying to spend other peoples money. Fine, don't go to games or watch (Like I said, I bet Hawks TV ratings are in the tank also. I doubt people are even watching) but don't act like Atlanta is deserving of teams because Atlanta is not deserving of teams.

Atlanta finds a way to go see college football and NASCAR, but if the NBA just ain't cutting it in Atlanta there are other places that the team would probably fair better.

[lethalweapon3]

Just as much as the road avgs, I found the road PERCENTAGES fascinating. The Hawks are presently fourth behind the Lakers, Boston and Cleveland in filling OTHER team's arenas.

I'd theorize that geographics and history are major factors. Southeastern sports fans will come indoors from the sunshine for a sports contest only if there's some significant historic pretext (Duke-UNC) to lean on. Otherwise they WILL stay home.

Road %s can be skewed by who teams have played so far, as well as the varied promotional skillz of other teams. But of the five teams with 90+ percent road attendance but less than 90 percent home attendance, FOUR are south of the Mason/Dixon line and east of the Mississippi (Miami, Washington, Atlanta, Memphis, with sad-sack Sacramento as the outlier).

During the Hawks coming of age as contenders in the 80s-90s their divisional rivals were based in Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Milwaukee, and Indiana. They don't have those alliances anymore. When the Magic and Heat came online they were grouped with Washington, Philly, NY, and Boston. Save for a short-lived Magic-Heat rivalry in the 90s, the current Dirty South Division teams have had scarce opportunities against one another for prime-time play and attention to dominate local/regional/national media discussion, particularly with a playoff atmosphere. Quite simply, there's no bad blood here. No bad blood, no historic context, no national spotlight, and questionable local media attention leads to few booties in the seats.

I haven't paid a lot of attention to the Hawks marketing plans of late, but the ticket packages marketed to me have basically been my weekend package (Fridays/Saturdays/Sundays) and "Big-Star-Games" (LeBron, Kobe, KG & Co.) It seemed like in the past you could get some good discounted mid-week deals for tickets and packages that would entice some extra attendance for, say, Oklahoma City on a Tuesday night, or Milwaukee on a Thursday, often with a good postgame concert or something for added leverage, but I dunno if that's still the case these days.

Don't know if it was like this for others growing up in other NBA markets, but in Philly it used to be that to see a 76ers home game you either HAD to go to the game or pay through the nose for the local sports cable channel (PRISM) to get some, but not all, games. Road games were the only games that got local airplay in the age of antennae and rabbit ears, so theoretically fans couldn't just sit at home and watch home games from TV. I recall Hawks games being available on locally-free TBS back in the day, so fans who grew up here had little need to consider physically going to home games as a primary option.

I also enjoy listening to radio broadcasts when I couldn't go to games, and here it seems too often that games are locally pre-empted, like the other night, by Georgia Tech hoops or some college football bowl game, on what is supposed to be the Hawks "flagship station" (du jour). Out of sight AND out of hearing, out of mind. Part of good strategic marketing is to sow the seeds for future ticket-holders and fans, and I don't get the impression the Hawks' brass is fully utilizing the region's vast media resources to do this.

I don't prescribe fully to the thought that winning or even contending by itself translates into attendance in Atlanta. We often forget that when the Hawks did make the playoffs with regularity (at one point more consecutive appearances than any other team), they still had a skeptical audience. Armed with every conceivable excuse for staying at home... they can't beat the Celtics, they can't beat Jordan, they can't get past the second round, they're boring on offense, they traded our star, the ownership can't be trusted... this was all long BEFORE Spirit Group. While we've questioned whether this year's edition could drum up 45 wins, their playoff predecessors put up 50 with regularity but not only couldn't they sell out the Omni or a third of the Georgia Dome come playoff time, they couldn't even fill out the Thriller Dome at GT for a series-clinching weekend afternoon NBA playoff game.

~lw3

[exodus]

"QUOTE (Hotlanta1981)

I don't think this excuses everything. The attendance not increasing really at all after last seasons first round series should be leaving you scratching your head. I didn't expect a major increase, but c'mon. You would think the crowd would improve at least some. The winning doesn't seem to be paying off either. I know I haven't been to a game, but I live way outside of Atlanta. You would think this city is big enough to outdraw teams like Washington. They have a 4 win team right now and haven't had that much success the last 20 years either and they still draw more fans."

Please read again. I didn't say I expected a big increase. Stop stretching what people say.

If people have less money to spend they will go to games less often. It isn't hard to understand. A good playoff series isn't going to put more money is the pockets of fans.

If the economy hadn't gone in the tank then it would be natural to expect an increase. but the economy DID go into the tank.

As far as the Wizards go they have been a playoff team several years in a row, just like we have been a losing team for several years in a row. Orlando and Denver won 50 games last year but our attendence is right there with theirs.

[Plainview1981]

If people have less money to spend they will go to games less often. It isn't hard to understand. A good playoff series isn't going to put more money is the pockets of fans.

If the economy hadn't gone in the tank then it would be natural to expect an increase. but the economy DID go into the tank.

As far as the Wizards go they have been a playoff team several years in a row, just like we have been a losing team for several years in a row.

The Wizards/Bullets have won 45 games only once since 1979. They've been mediocre for 30+ years.

The team manages to help fill up other buildings.

Edited January 2, 2009 by Hotlanta1981

[KDT88]

So should the Pacers, Sixers, and Bucks move to another city as well? Its not as if we're dead last.

[bonethugz]

the redskins didn't win that many games/superbowl for the past, 10 20 years but they're the one of the most popular sport team in the country. why? the spurs and the jazz won hundreds of games and they're the one/two of least favorite sport teams in the nation, why?

we're a good team and fun team to watch and were in the playoffs still not too many people come why? marketing? what you're been living it the city for 30 years and you don't remember there's a professional basketball team?

but i agree we don't get enough celebrities to involve with the team. i see more stars in a bobcats game than a hawks game, nelly for example

[lethalweapon3]

Another small but significant fuss about the inability to follow the Hawks on TV. Tonight's game WILL be televised on Fox Sports South, but noone apparently told the cable networks. My Comcast menu shows the oh-so thrilling Vancouver-Thrashers matchup as the game to be shown at 7:30 on SportSouth, and despite the cable channel's website and all other info to the contrary, the 7:30 menu for Fox Sports South has "Amazing Sports Stories" (A repeat of some USC school newspaper reporter who walked on to the football team. Amazing! Must See TV!). This has been a continuous problem all year, and I doubt it's just Comcast.

They make you guess what station they're on from one game to the next. (PAX, anyone?)

They don't update their cable menus so people can Tivo or even know a game is even coming on.

Then they'll wonder aloud why Hawks-game viewership is down.

Out of sight + out of hearing = out of mind.

~lw3

[TheNorthCydeRises]

[rant]

You gotta love the ATL natives.

They blame everything . . except straight up fan apathy . . which runs rampant in ATL. That's the #1 reason why the Hawks can't get the support they should be getting. And that's why people say it's a bad sports town.

Now crucify me for saying that. The numbers speak for themselves.

Unless a marquee name team comes to town, the people just flat out don't show up like they should. It's 4+ million people in metro ATL . . and people can't even support a GOOD Hawks team, like the other good teams and their fans do?

Portland is #3 on that list.

Fuggin Oklahoma City is #12.

Even New Orleans, a city that damn near got washed off the map, is #17.

Recession . . mecession. The recession doesn't hurt those who have the money to go to these games, which are usually the middle and upper class folks. The Hawks have all kinds of promotions going on, from the "all you can eat" seats, to "game packs" to the different "family nights" they have. No excuse for people to make a concerted effort to see this team . . . ESPECIALLY THIS YEAR!!

I'll be at Philips tomorrow night . . driving from almost 300 miles away . . to see the Hawks for the 4th time this season. And some of you can't even spend $20 - $50 on a single ticket . . or make one family outing a month, to support the Hawks?

Forget the team . . . the FANS need to RISE UP!!

[/rant]

[lethalweapon3]

[rant]

You gotta love the ATL natives.

They blame everything . . except straight up fan apathy . . which runs rampant in ATL. That's the #1 reason why the Hawks can't get the support they should be getting. And that's why people say it's a bad sports town.

Now crucify me for saying that. The numbers speak for themselves.

Unless a marquee name team comes to town, the people just flat out don't show up like they should. It's 4+ million people in metro ATL . . and people can't even support a GOOD Hawks team, like the other good teams and their fans do?

Portland is #3 on that list.

Fuggin Oklahoma City is #12.

Even New Orleans, a city that damn near got washed off the map, is #17.

Recession . . mecession. The recession doesn't hurt those who have the money to go to these games, which are usually the middle and upper class folks. The Hawks have all kinds of promotions going on, from the "all you can eat" seats, to "game packs" to the different "family nights" they have. No excuse for people to make a concerted effort to see this team . . . ESPECIALLY THIS YEAR!!

I'll be at Philips tomorrow night . . driving from almost 300 miles away . . to see the Hawks for the 4th time this season. And some of you can't even spend $20 - $50 on a single ticket . . or make one family outing a month, to support the Hawks?

Forget the team . . . the FANS need to RISE UP!!

[/rant]

**applause**

~lw3

[josh_pwns_newbs]

[rant]

You gotta love the ATL natives.

They blame everything . . except straight up fan apathy . . which runs rampant in ATL. That's the #1 reason why the Hawks can't get the support they should be getting. And that's why people say it's a bad sports town.

Now crucify me for saying that. The numbers speak for themselves.

Unless a marquee name team comes to town, the people just flat out don't show up like they should. It's 4+ million people in metro ATL . . and people can't even support a GOOD Hawks team, like the other good teams and their fans do?

Portland is #3 on that list.

Fuggin Oklahoma City is #12.

Even New Orleans, a city that damn near got washed off the map, is #17.

Recession . . mecession. The recession doesn't hurt those who have the money to go to these games, which are usually the middle and upper class folks. The Hawks have all kinds of promotions going on, from the "all you can eat" seats, to "game packs" to the different "family nights" they have. No excuse for people to make a concerted effort to see this team . . . ESPECIALLY THIS YEAR!!

I'll be at Philips tomorrow night . . driving from almost 300 miles away . . to see the Hawks for the 4th time this season. And some of you can't even spend $20 - $50 on a single ticket . . or make one family outing a month, to support the Hawks?

Forget the team . . . the FANS need to RISE UP!!

[/rant]

Here here.

Wasnt the Atlanta "Montra" that they won't pay to support bad teams? That they are educated fans?

More like cheap...

[LOL_Hawks]

Here here.

Wasnt the Atlanta "Montra" that they won't pay to support bad teams? That they are educated fans?

More like cheap...

Those are the fans who are waiting for the team(s) to win 2 straight championships and have an all-star team playing before they go.

With that said, it really is kinda sad that even though the team is winning, it still takes Boston, the Lakers, the Cavaliers, or any other "flavor of the month" team to come to Philips for the place to at least look full. The same thing happened to the Falcons this year...11-5 and I think that the place was only filled to capacity 3 times: Clemson vs. Alabama, Florida vs. Alabama, & Georgia Tech vs. LSU.

Yet and still, I sit there in the arena/stadium, just hoping that people are caught in traffic and that the place will fill up.

[Iman]

Hawks ticket prices also went up fairly substantially vs some of the packages they offered in the past. This had to offend some that felt they had stuck with the team through the bad years and were now being shafted. Food prices are way up also.

One way to tell that Hawks tickets are in higher demand is that the scalped/craigslist type prices have went up pretty substantially.

I agree with Diesel that the games need to be into more of an event. Ryan Cameron, our main announcer is one of the best in the biz, Mike King the floor announcer is very good when he's there, Rashan Ali and especially Elle Duncan our sideline girls are very good, Harry and SkyHawk are very good. Some of the other entertainment is good, some is very weak. Half time shows need lots of work. The dance team is weak. Better music and lighting effects would help.

More celebrity attendance would help. I assume the Spirit tries, I guess just the team getting better will get that to happen. Once we get more celebrities that will help casual fan attendance alot. Some would probably rather go to the game and see Bow Wow or Ciara was than see a Hawks win.

Proper TV coverage would help. More national games would be huge.

Still, Atlanta will always have fickle fans for anything except college football. That's just the way it goes down here.

[tonegully]

If i lived in atlanta i would be a season ticket holder. It sucks im all the way in the tacoma/seattle area.

[exodus]

The Wizards/Bullets have won 45 games only once since 1979. They've been mediocre for 30+ years.

The team manages to help fill up other buildings.

I live near DC and i can tell you there is a simple reason for that. People here are rich. The DC suburbs are some of the richest suburban areas in the country.

Typical that you ignore the 50 win teams whose attendence is the same as ours. The fact is that the Hawks attendence 1300 per game below the team in 15th place. That is hardly an indictment of Atlanta since the Hawks havent been a winning team this decade.

[Dakin]

white suburban families are never going to flock to Phillips, like they do to arenas in other cities.

[josh_pwns_newbs]

white suburban families are never going to flock to Phillips, like they do to arenas in other cities.

Honestly the stigma of the Omni still lurks, i talked ot my uncle the other day and he laughed when I told him I had an extra ticket to a hawks game because he thought it was still trash owned and operated by turner full of free tickets to anyone who would show up.

[Popeye]

Don't worry guys, everything will be fine when Kobe comes to town. All those bitches will show up.