Trade rumor with Blazers?

[DrReality]

Quick: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF

by Spykes on Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:34 pm

Quick talked about trade rumors that he's hearing that aren't in the media yet. He said the Blazers are talking to 2 teams right now. One is a minor deal with a Western Conference team that doesn't look like it'll get done. The other is a very serious deal with an Eastern team that the Blazers have had conversations with in the past that would bring a PG and a SF back that could push the Blazers into championship contention. The deal would involve Raef's contract and 2 players in the Blazers rotation, but no starters would be involved.

Thoughts about what team that might be?

what if it was Aldridge?

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=876279

[TskOoOo]

Quick: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF

by Spykes on Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:34 pm

Quick talked about trade rumors that he's hearing that aren't in the media yet. He said the Blazers are talking to 2 teams right now. One is a minor deal with a Western Conference team that doesn't look like it'll get done. The other is a very serious deal with an Eastern team that the Blazers have had conversations with in the past that would bring a PG and a SF back that could push the Blazers into championship contention. The deal would involve Raef's contract and 2 players in the Blazers rotation, but no starters would be involved.

Thoughts about what team that might be?

what if it was Aldridge?

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=876279

Most retarded trade in NBA history if it involves Bibby.

Why trade a good PG for a useless trash expiring contract that doesn't play? Just let Bibby end his contract here and go from there. Unless we get Aldridge or Roy (yeah right), there is no remotely good trade with PTL to be done

[NJHAWK]

If we trade Bibby were done. Just look how bad we play when he has a bad game or a minor slump. He is the only protection Joe has. I will say one thing, the only pg that makes any sense as the one being mentioned in that rumor is Bibby. What other eastern con. point could put them over the top and has any chance at being available? The only way I deal Bibby is if he says he wont sign here.

[Popeye]

I would like to have Bayless.

[Admin]

Well it certainly wouldn't be Aldridge if the writer is accurate in saying that a starter won't be involved. Here are my attempts based on a few assumptions:

1. That Lafrentz isn't going to Sacramento for John Salmons as rumored

2. That the Blazers would not be losing any starters and would only be sending Raef and 2 rotational players

3. That the EC team would be sending a PG and a SF to Portland

Trade #1 which does not include Bibby

ESPN Trade Machine Link

Blazers trade:

C - Raef Lafrentz - 12.7 million

SF - Nicolas Batum - 1 million

SG - Rudy Fernandez - 1 million

Hawks trade:

PG - Speedy Claxton - 5.8 million

SF - Marvin Williams - 5.6 million

PG - Acie Law - 2 million

What this trade does for the Hawks is it clears roughly 1.3 million from this years books and eliminates the concern about re-signing Marvin in the offseason. Batum is a talented young SF with big time athleticism and a tremendous wingspan and he shoots the ball pretty well also. Fernandez gives us a top notch backup for JJ and a guy who is a capable ball handler for a SG. That allows us to run Flip as the primary backup PG to Bibby as Woody clearly prefers to do anyway and most importantly it gets JJ some much needed rest.

For the Blazers they get an upgrade at SF in Marvin who is more ready to help this year on a consistent basis than Batum is and in all likelihood puts Travis Outlaw on the bench as the 6th man where he can come off the bench with the 2nd unit and score. Acie Law gives them a solid young PG to groom who should actually get some minutes backing up Blake/Rodriguez. In order for this deal to work there has to be an understanding that Speedy is going to retire after this year so that his salary will not be on the books next season.

I actually like this deal quite a bit and I think it's fair for both sides.

Trade #2 which does includes Bibby (I need to make it clear that I'm not a fan of trading Bibby)

ESPN Trade Machine Link

Blazers trade:

C - Raef Lafrentz - 12.7 million

C - Joel Pryzbilla - 6.3 million

SF - Nicolas Batum - 1 million

Hawks trade:

PG - Mike Bibby - 15 million

SF - Marvin Williams - 5.6 million

Again with this trade the Hawks get a talented young SF to replace Marvin and alleviate the worry about Marvin being a RFA in the offseason. In addition the Hawks also get a quality center to come in and provide help on the inside with toughness, rebounding, and shot blocking in Pryzbilla. With 2 more years on his contract after this season assuming his play doesn't tail off he's signed to a fair contract. The problem for the Hawks is that we no longer have a starting PG and are forced to either start Acie or Flip at PG and either option seriously hurts the team.

The Blazers make out like bandits by adding Bibby and Marvin to their starting lineup while only losing 1 productive bench player and 1 young backup SF plus the contract of Lafrentz. I would say that this deal instantly makes them championship contenders as the writer said.

This deal heavily favors the Blazers so unless 1 or more 1st round draft choices are involved it's difficult for me to see this deal happening.

[DrReality]

There is always something seductive in the idea of a trade, getting new players, changing the team. But when it is put down on paper, can't say that I'd change what we have for what is being offered.

[coachx]

Rudy Fernandez and Joel Pryzbilla are 2 guys who do not start that I would love to have ! If we got either Bayless or Blake with those two to plug in the PG minutes I would be all over it.

Bibby and Marvin

for

Rudy Fernandez , Pryzbilla, Bayless, and LaFrentz expiring contract. (None of those guys start so they fit the rumor of rotation guys, its basically their first 3 guys off the bench).

I would love that. I think in the long run it would make our team better while saving money for next season too.

The only problem is Pryzbilla has a trade a kicker so he would have to be down with a return to the ATL. I would throw in ZaZa if needed b/c Pryzbilla is just what we need at Center off the bench. Dude can block shots and rebound with the the other beast in the league. Rudy is Ginobli waiting happen. Having to play with Roy is holding him back. I think JJ is more of a SF and Segio is a SG like Ginobli.

Bayless will be a stud at SG. This deal could pay off big in the long run ! Maybe not this season, but in the long run. Portland would likey want to keep Bayless and give us Blake instead. Blake is basically a poor man's Bibby with the same stregths and weaknesses.

Edited February 4, 2009 by coachx

[coachx]

Bayless will be a stud at SG.

Typo correction.

Bayless will be a stud at PG.

[Packfill]

Rudy Fernandez and Joel Pryzbilla are 2 guys who do not start that I would love to have ! If we got either Bayless or Blake with those two to plug in the PG minutes I would be all over it.

Bibby and Marvin

for

Rudy Fernandez , Pryzbilla, Bayless, and LaFrentz expiring contract. (None of those guys start so they fit the rumor of rotation guys, its basically their first 3 guys off the bench).

I would love that. I think in the long run it would make our team better while saving money for next season too.

The only problem is Pryzbilla has a trade a kicker so he would have to be down with a return to the ATL. I would throw in ZaZa if needed b/c Pryzbilla is just what we need at Center off the bench. Dude can block shots and rebound with the the other beast in the league. Rudy is Ginobli waiting happen. Having to play with Roy is holding him back. I think JJ is more of a SF and Segio is a SG like Ginobli.

Bayless will be a stud at SG. This deal could pay off big in the long run ! Maybe not this season, but in the long run. Portland would likey want to keep Bayless and give us Blake instead. Blake is basically a poor man's Bibby with the same stregths and weaknesses.

I am not sure how trading two starters for three bench guys makes the Hawks any better. If saving money were the goal then it makes sense but otherwise the only way it works is if you really think Bayless is going to be a Monta Ellis type.

[#10]

ESPN Trade Machine Link

Blazers trade:

C - Raef Lafrentz - 12.7 million

SF - Nicolas Batum - 1 million

SG - Rudy Fernandez - 1 million

Hawks trade:

PG - Speedy Claxton - 5.8 million

SF - Marvin Williams - 5.6 million

PG - Acie Law - 2 million

As a Blazer fan..... no chance. Marvin (statistically, at least, I'm interested in what Hawks fans say) is better at PF whereas the Blazers could use a SF, and with it uncertain what kind of contract he'll be getting this offseason, it's a bit of a risk. Rudy is under cheap team control for another 3 years, and his PER is almost as good as Marvin's. While I concede that Marvin may be the better player, and probably the better fit for the Blazers, there's no need to trade Rudy just yet. And for the record, he's way better than Redick. EDIT - of course, JJ meant Joe Johnson... I'm an idiot. Rudy is most definitely not better than Joe Johnson, though I don't see why ATL would target such a talented player just to be a backup.

Adding Batum is out of the question. A lot of Blazer fans think he has Tayshaun Prince type potential, if not better, which would be a perfect fit for the team. As a result, the Blazers would need to be getting back a player equal to his potential value, not his actual value right now. Portland's GM has repeatedly said that he's not interested in trading potential for a win now type of situation, and long term, Batum close to his ceiling is a better fit for the Blazers than Marvin at his.

For the Blazers they get an upgrade at SF in Marvin who is more ready to help this year on a consistent basis than Batum is and in all likelihood puts Travis Outlaw on the bench as the 6th man where he can come off the bench with the 2nd unit and score. Acie Law gives them a solid young PG to groom who should actually get some minutes backing up Blake/Rodriguez. In order for this deal to work there has to be an understanding that Speedy is going to retire after this year so that his salary will not be on the books next season.

Point by point...

Getting a player more ready to help this year isn't really a priority, it's getting a player to help in the next 3 years.

Outlaw already is a 6th man off the bench.

Acie Law would sit behind Blake, Bayless, and Rodriguez. Portland already has a PG log jam, he'd just add to it.

Trade #2 which does includes Bibby (I need to make it clear that I'm not a fan of trading Bibby)

ESPN Trade Machine Link

Blazers trade:

C - Raef Lafrentz - 12.7 million

C - Joel Pryzbilla - 6.3 million

SF - Nicolas Batum - 1 million

Hawks trade:

PG - Mike Bibby - 15 million

SF - Marvin Williams - 5.6 million

Again, you're under the assumption that the Blazers are in "win now" mode, which they aren't. Bibby and Marvin would significantly improve the team for the rest of the season, but then what? There's no point in running the risk of resigning both when the Blazers are already in position to make the playoffs and maybe win the division. Next season and beyond, there's no reason to believe that the Blazers won't continue to improve.

Also, Joel Przybilla (I'll admit it, I have a huge mancrush on him, so I might be especially biased) is much more valuable to Portland than a typical backup 5 because of Oden's foul and consistency problems. And having 48 minutes of good rebounding and defense at the 5 has been a huge help to an already poor Blazer defense, getting rid of him would make it much worse. Based on performance alone, Prz should really be starting.

Basically, I don't see the Blazers making a trade unless it's either a Gasol-style give away, or some form of consolidation. The most likely players to be traded are (this represents my personal opinion, but also I'd say a majority of Blazer fans would agree with me):

RLEC (Raef LaFrentz's Expiring Contract), Outlaw, Rodriguez, maybe Webster (injured, and probably unlikely to be 100% this season).

Blazer needs (the Blazers don't need anyone, areas to improve would be a better description), in order

- Better scoring without much of a defensive drop off at the 3.

- Better defense at PG, better at running the fast break. (it should be noted that Bayless already provides both of these)

- a backup PF in the Millsap mold.

Interested in your opinions.

Edited February 4, 2009 by #10

[Admin]

As a Blazer fan..... no chance. Marvin (statistically, at least, I'm interested in what Hawks fans say) is better at PF whereas the Blazers could use a SF, and with it uncertain what kind of contract he'll be getting this offseason, it's a bit of a risk. Rudy is under cheap team control for another 3 years, and his PER is almost as good as Marvin's. While I concede that Marvin may be the better player, and probably the better fit for the Blazers, there's no need to trade Rudy just yet. And for the record, he's way better than Redick.

Adding Batum is out of the question. A lot of Blazer fans think he has Tayshaun Prince type potential, if not better, which would be a perfect fit for the team. As a result, the Blazers would need to be getting back a player equal to his potential value, not his actual value right now. Portland's GM has repeatedly said that he's not interested in trading potential for a win now type of situation, and long term, Batum close to his ceiling is a better fit for the Blazers than Marvin at his.

Point by point...

Getting a player more ready to help this year isn't really a priority, it's getting a player to help in the next 3 years.

Outlaw already is a 6th man off the bench.

Acie Law would sit behind Blake, Bayless, and Rodriguez. Portland already has a PG log jam, he'd just add to it.

Again, you're under the assumption that the Blazers are in "win now" mode, which they aren't. Bibby and Marvin would significantly improve the team for the rest of the season, but then what? There's no point in running the risk of resigning both when the Blazers are already in position to make the playoffs and maybe win the division. Next season and beyond, there's no reason to believe that the Blazers won't continue to improve.

Also, Joel Przybilla (I'll admit it, I have a huge mancrush on him, so I might be especially biased) is much more valuable to Portland than a typical backup 5 because of Oden's foul and consistency problems. And having 48 minutes of good rebounding and defense at the 5 has been a huge help to an already poor Blazer defense, getting rid of him would make it much worse. Based on performance alone, Prz should really be starting.

Basically, I don't see the Blazers making a trade unless it's either a Gasol-style give away, or some form of consolidation. The most likely players to be traded are (this represents my personal opinion, but also I'd say a majority of Blazer fans would agree with me):

RLEC (Raef LaFrentz's Expiring Contract), Outlaw, Rodriguez, maybe Webster (injured, and probably unlikely to be 100% this season).

Blazer needs (the Blazers don't need anyone, areas to improve would be a better description), in order

- Better scoring without much of a defensive drop off at the 3.

- Better defense at PG, better at running the fast break. (it should be noted that Bayless already provides both of these)

- a backup PF in the Millsap mold.

Interested in your opinions.

Thanks for your reply, however both of my trade scenarios were based on the statements made by the RealGM writer about that rumor which said that the Blazers would be sending LaFrentz and 2 bench players to an EC team for a PG and SF that makes them championship contenders. To me that sounds like you're trading potential for proven, unless you think that you can trade end of the bench limited talent players for 2 players proven enough to make you championship contenders.

As to Marvin, he's a SF. He's far too weak to be successful as a PF on a consistent basis because even though he's not small he tends to get knocked around quite a bit for his size. This year he's added 3pt range and he's arguably our best perimeter defender.

If you're getting starters from a team you're going to have to either give up starters or potential and it appears that starters aren't on the table so in my mind that's Fernandez, Bayless, and especially Batum who I also think very highly of.

I'm curious to see what type of deal you could put together that works under the cap that follows the stipulations from that RealGM writer.

[cowa]

As a Blazer fan..... no chance.

Basically, I don't see the Blazers making a trade unless it's either a Gasol-style give away, or some form of consolidation. The most likely players to be traded are (this represents my personal opinion, but also I'd say a majority of Blazer fans would agree with me):

RLEC (Raef LaFrentz's Expiring Contract), Outlaw, Rodriguez, maybe Webster (injured, and probably unlikely to be 100% this season).

Blazer needs (the Blazers don't need anyone, areas to improve would be a better description), in order

- Better scoring without much of a defensive drop off at the 3.

- Better defense at PG, better at running the fast break. (it should be noted that Bayless already provides both of these)

- a backup PF in the Millsap mold.

Interested in your opinions.

I totally agree with most of the points #10 brings up, especially what they are looking for. To me, Atlanta is an awful fit for a trade with Portland. Both teams are going after the same thing from a basketball perspective (from a financial perspective, a whole different story). The three teams that make sense for Portland to deal with are Charlotte (Wallace and Felton), Indiana (Dunleavy and Ford) and the Knicks (Duhon and Lee, although he's not a SF). Indiana doesn't actually answer their biggest problems, but the view may be different from their front office.

I don't see much happening with the Hawks, though there are a bunch of potential moves that would be good, but all add salary and I don't see the ASG doing that.

[#10]

Thanks for your reply, however both of my trade scenarios were based on the statements made by the RealGM writer about that rumor which said that the Blazers would be sending LaFrentz and 2 bench players to an EC team for a PG and SF that makes them championship contenders. To me that sounds like you're trading potential for proven, unless you think that you can trade end of the bench limited talent players for 2 players proven enough to make you championship contenders.

As to Marvin, he's a SF. He's far too weak to be successful as a PF on a consistent basis because even though he's not small he tends to get knocked around quite a bit for his size. This year he's added 3pt range and he's arguably our best perimeter defender.

If you're getting starters from a team you're going to have to either give up starters or potential and it appears that starters aren't on the table so in my mind that's Fernandez, Bayless, and especially Batum who I also think very highly of.

I'm curious to see what type of deal you could put together that works under the cap that follows the stipulations from that RealGM writer.

I recognize that you don't usually get good starters for bench players in the NBA (for the record, Batum is a starter, so he doesn't fit the criteria). But the Blazers are trading from a position of serious strength - if it's not a very favorable trade, they should just stand pat, because the team as it's currently constructed has a chance to contend next year.

Trading potential for proven.... there's potential, then there's potential. Bayless and Batum both look like perfect fits with Roy, Aldridge, and Oden in a few years. Outlaw and Rodriguez, while both still have solid potential, at this point don't look like good fits, so they're very available. But again, there's no need to trade. The only ticking clock is on LaFrentz's expiring contract. If I'm not mistaken, the Hawks on the other hand would benefit from trading Bibby for some cheap young talent under team control or risk losing him for nothing. If he's available for Rodriguez, then it should be considered. If Atlanta says no (wouldn't blame you), then no trade.

I totally agree with most of the points #10 brings up, especially what they are looking for. To me, Atlanta is an awful fit for a trade with Portland. Both teams are going after the same thing from a basketball perspective (from a financial perspective, a whole different story). The three teams that make sense for Portland to deal with are Charlotte (Wallace and Felton), Indiana (Dunleavy and Ford) and the Knicks (Duhon and Lee, although he's not a SF). Indiana doesn't actually answer their biggest problems, but the view may be different from their front office.

I don't see much happening with the Hawks, though there are a bunch of potential moves that would be good, but all add salary and I don't see the ASG doing that.

just to add a few - Granger + Ford/Tinsley, Shaun Marion + ?, Vince Carter + ?, Richard Jefferson + Sessions, Deng + Hinrich (dream), Hinrich + Nocioni (blegh), Caron Butler (still dreaming), Antawn Jamison.

I don't see (m)any of these players being available for the package the Blazers would be willing to give up (RLEC, Rodriguez, Outlaw, picks, foreign players), unless ownership wants to save money.

[AHF]

Re Marvin and Batum, remember they are only two years apart. It isn't like one is a veteran and the other untapped potential. Marvin was born in 1986 and Batum was born in 1988. They are 22 and 20 years old. The big difference is that Marvin is more experienced right now, and he is going to cost more after this season. Marvin is absolutely a pure SF who is long enough to fill in at PF for limited period of time.

I don't think the second trade you proposed would work for me, Dolfan23. Batum for Marvin is a downgrade at SF and we take a huge hit at PG that I wouldn't be willing to accept this year. Upgrading our size is not that great when you are going from Marvin, Josh, Horford to Josh, Horford, Pryzbilla. The individual pieces fit together much better with Smoove at PF. Bibby's veteran presence at PG is too important to give up without getting back at least a competent starting PG with future upside.

[cowa]

just to add a few - Granger + Ford/Tinsley, Shaun Marion + ?, Vince Carter + ?, Richard Jefferson + Sessions, Deng + Hinrich (dream), Hinrich + Nocioni (blegh), Caron Butler (still dreaming), Antawn Jamison.

I don't see (m)any of these players being available for the package the Blazers would be willing to give up (RLEC, Rodriguez, Outlaw, picks, foreign players), unless ownership wants to save money.

This whole thread is based on the article from RealGM that said Portland was in discussion with an Eastern Conference team for a starting PG and SF. None of the deals have a chance under these parameters. Granger is the focal point of Indy, so he's not in consideration. Miami needs a PG, so they don't have anyone that makes sense. NJ isn't trading Harris, so they don't have a PG that makes sense. Milwaukee could do it, but they are currently in the 8th spot and that trade would take them out of playoff contention (and yes, they did just lose Redd). Deng + Hinrich make $21M, and they have a full roster. They'd move Hughes instead of Deng, but then you're trading a lot for Hinrich. Washington doesn't have a capable PG except for Arenas, and he's still hurt.

So, I go back to original post, that the only teams that make any sense are Charlotte, Indy and NY, and Charlotte may not make sense now with Wallace out indefinitely. But a healthy Wallace and Felton would have been an excellent fit. Duhon and Lee next best fit. Dunleavy and Ford last.

[Diesel]

Quick: Blazers in talks with East team for PG and SF

by Spykes on Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:34 pm

Quick talked about trade rumors that he's hearing that aren't in the media yet. He said the Blazers are talking to 2 teams right now. One is a minor deal with a Western Conference team that doesn't look like it'll get done. The other is a very serious deal with an Eastern team that the Blazers have had conversations with in the past that would bring a PG and a SF back that could push the Blazers into championship contention. The deal would involve Raef's contract and 2 players in the Blazers rotation, but no starters would be involved.

Thoughts about what team that might be?

what if it was Aldridge?

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=876279

If we saw no way to resign Bibby...

I could see

Bibby+Claxton+Evans

for

Pryz + Blake + Lafrentz

Why these?

Well, Bibby is a good fit for what they do. He can shoot, he takes pressure off of Roy and he can run an offense. Evans is a strong defensive backup. Bibby's contract is up at the end of the season so he represents 15 Million in salary cap savings. That's more than Lafrentz and that allows PTL to speed Oden to Center. Claxton gives them guaranteed money in 2010 and they will have lots of money to spend if they are smart. I wouldn't put them out of the running for Bron or any of the big names (even JJ).

For us...

We get Blake. He's Bibby-like.. cheaper and he may play a little more defense. I have said for years that he'd be a good match to JJ (also). We also get Pryz... defensive Big.

Our logjam remains and I think that's the way our front office wants it.... until we have to sign Marvin.

There's also a possibility that we have found a trade for Marvin (maybe not PTL) and we will trade him and sign Chillz. Chillz is more of a Sf/SG than a SF/PF which doesn't effect the logjam so much.

[exodus]

Philly is most likely the EC team in question. I don't think they plan on resigning Miller.

[Diesel]

Philly is most likely the EC team in question. I don't think they plan on resigning Miller.

I highly doubt that they would resign Miller too, but why would they want Pryz?

i mean, I can see them going after Pryz Diogu, and Frye for Miller and Green... but that's a bit much for Pryz when you already have Dalembert, Spheights, and SMith.

The team dealing with PTL has to be a team that needs bigs and has a PG to give.

I think Miller, Tinsley, Bibby.

The problem is that Miller is a good pickup but what do Philly get back?

Bibs is a great fit, but why would the Hawks give up on Bibs?

Another option is Miami and Marion. I just don't see how Marion gets PT.