We should trade Smoove during the Offseason.

[Diesel]

Let's face it...

Money is going to be tight.

Needs are going to be long.

We should look into moving Smoove as soon as his BYC1 Status is gone. We have to think about Resigning Joe and Horf.

IF we keep Marv, Smoove has to go. Period. The log jam is tiresome. His freelancing is getting old. Maybe we should think about what we can get for him now that he has a good contract.

[exodus]

Smith on a bad ankle is still far more productive than Horford. If anything we should look to trade Horford since he doesn't have nearly the talent or the productivity of Smith.

[BeeSwatter]

Horford is the only player that we have that is capable of playing Center. A lot better chance that Smoove brings us someone that is either a PF with a post game or someone capable of playing Center.

[exodus]

Horford is the only player that we have that is capable of playing Center. A lot better chance that Smoove brings us someone that is either a PF with a post game or someone capable of playing Center.

Zaza has done a better job defensively at center than Horford this year. Horford sure can't score on centers. His rebounding is nothing special either.

Horford is the 2nd best 4 on the roster.

[NJHAWK]

Horford is the only 4 on the roster.

[exodus]

Horford is the only 4 on the roster that struggles to average double figures in 30+ minutes.

corrected

[BeeSwatter]

corrected

Horford could more than hold his own if he manned the PF sport on a nightly basis. The problem is I don't know if trading Smoove or Marvin will bring much of an upgrade at center.

Edited February 19, 2009 by BeeSwatter

[exodus]

Horford could more than hold his own if he manned the PF sport on a nightly basis. The problem is I don't know if trading Smoove or Marvin will bring much of an upgrade at center.

What did he do at the 4 when Smith was out for 12 games?

Playing center sure didn't hurt the scoring of Bosh, Amare or Diaw. If anything it made scoring easier. Their problem was on defense.

The fact is that Horford has a higher PER at center than at the 4. he doesn't score because he isn't a scorer, not because he is playing center.

[mrhonline]

Zaza has done a better job defensively at center than Horford this year. Horford sure can't score on centers. His rebounding is nothing special either.

That's just not true, ex.

[Frenzy]

What did he do at the 4 when Smith was out for 12 games?

Playing center sure didn't hurt the scoring of Bosh, Amare or Diaw. If anything it made scoring easier. Their problem was on defense.

The fact is that Horford has a higher PER at center than at the 4. he doesn't score because he isn't a scorer, not because he is playing center.

i agree,im tired of people saying he would be so much better if he was pf full time.I honestly dont think there would be much of a difference.

Edited February 19, 2009 by falconfrenzy

[exodus]

That's just not true, ex.

The Hawks defense is 3 ppg worse when Horford is playing.

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL11.HTM

The Hawks defense is 7 ppg better when Zaza is playing.

http://www.82games.com/0809/08ATL14.HTM

Even the Orlando announcers commented that Zaza does a better job on Howard than Horford does.

[mrhonline]

Def Reb% -

Horford = 23.8%

Pachulia = 20.5%

Block % -

Horford = 3.6%

Pachulia = 1.7%

When playing with Bibby-JJ-Marvin-Smith:

Horford = 1.05 off/1.07 def

Pachulia = 1.06 off/1.08 def

Again, that's just not true, ex.

[BeeSwatter]

What did he do at the 4 when Smith was out for 12 games?

Playing center sure didn't hurt the scoring of Bosh, Amare or Diaw. If anything it made scoring easier. Their problem was on defense.

The fact is that Horford has a higher PER at center than at the 4. he doesn't score because he isn't a scorer, not because he is playing center.

Not trying to argue but who says Horford played the 4 during that period. My opinion would be Horford was still the center and ZaZa was playing the 4. Horford would be a better 4 if he had a quality center next to him. In my opinion Horford does a decent job at center but there are always going to be match up problems. How does Smith do when he matches up directly with Bosh, Amare, or Diaw? Fact is Smith is signed to a decent long term contract and he could get us something in return. It would have to be a big name or I don't even consider it (Bosh, Boozer, Amare). True Smith may blow up into a superstar in a few years but then again we may still be waiting on something that isn't going to happen. Personally I don't see the drive from him that it takes to be great. Then again that is my opinion.

[mrhonline]

Horford would be a better 4 if he had a quality center next to him. In my opinion Horford does a decent job at center but there are always going to be match up problems.

I agree with that.

Horford is also ridiculously misused on offense, when he's used at all. He's a great pick-n-pop player to get you a solid 15/10 each night. Instead, the Hawks want to post him up, where he's incredibly inefficient.

[exodus]

Not trying to argue but who says Horford played the 4 during that period. My opinion would be Horford was still the center and ZaZa was playing the 4.

Zaza plays all of his minutes at the 5. He never plays the 4.

Horford would be a better 4 if he had a quality center next to him.

That could be said of anyone.

" How does Smith do when he matches up directly with Bosh, Amare, or Diaw?"

Smith is one of the few guys who can adequately defend Bosh. In fact the Hawks held Bosh well below his average before Horford was drafted.

Amare is a tough cover for anyone but at least Smith can score on him.

Diaw, ugh.

Personally I don't see the drive from him that it takes to be great. Then again that is my opinion.

Smith has plenty of drive. He just doesn't have much sense.

[exodus]

I agree with that.

Horford is also ridiculously misused on offense, when he's used at all. He's a great pick-n-pop player to get you a solid 15/10 each night. Instead, the Hawks want to post him up, where he's incredibly inefficient.

So Horford's scoring would jump 50% if Woody wasn't holding him down? sure

You have it completely backwards. Horford is the one who wants to play with his back to the basket. When he catches the ball 15-18 feet away all he does is stand around with his elbows pointing out looking for someone to pass to. The only time he actually looks to score from that range is when the clock is running down.

[AtLaS]

Let's face it...

Money is going to be tight.

Needs are going to be long.

We should look into moving Smoove as soon as his BYC1 Status is gone. We have to think about Resigning Joe and Horf.

IF we keep Marv, Smoove has to go. Period. The log jam is tiresome. His freelancing is getting old. Maybe we should think about what we can get for him now that he has a good contract.

I'd much rather trade Joe at this point. He still has a very high value around the league and most haven't caught on as to how bad he is playing. I mean, he's averaging over 6 assists a game as well.

I hate to say it, but I think Joe has lost his confidence. Nobody goes on bad streaks like this. He's sucked for almost 2 straight months. Did you see how many wide open jumpers he bricked last night? He NEVER used to miss those.

[BeeSwatter]

Zaza plays all of his minutes at the 5. He never plays the 4.

That could be said of anyone.

" How does Smith do when he matches up directly with Bosh, Amare, or Diaw?"

Smith is one of the few guys who can adequately defend Bosh. In fact the Hawks held Bosh well below his average before Horford was drafted.

Amare is a tough cover for anyone but at least Smith can score on him.

Diaw, ugh.

Smith has plenty of drive. He just doesn't have much sense.

"Amare is a tough cover for anyone" You just contradicted yourself.

Matchups are debatable depending on who we are playing. There are stretches in some games where you either don't have a power forward or Joe is playing that position. That is a mute point.

What I am trying to say is IF we want to shake things up in the off season then we can get more for Josh. I HOPE Josh stays and blossoms into the player that we all think he can be. Personally in MY opinion right now I don't see it happening. Hope I am wrong and I will be pulling for him every game.

I hunted in another thread but couldn't find the exact stat but it was something like Josh was averaging 12 points a game in our wins and close to 20+ in our losses. He wants to be Lebron but he isn't.

Just my two cents

[exodus]

Def Reb% -

Horford = 23.8%

Pachulia = 20.5%

Block % -

Horford = 3.6%

Pachulia = 1.7%

When playing with Bibby-JJ-Marvin-Smith:

Horford = 1.05 off/1.07 def

Pachulia = 1.06 off/1.08 def

Again, that's just not true, ex.

So why are the Hawks giving up more ppg when Horford is playing?

While you are explaining that maybe you can explain Horfords horrible +/- of -5.8 per game.

In contrast Smith's is +7. Smith is an impact player on both ends of the floor. Horford isn't an impact player on either end.

[AtLaS]

So why are the Hawks giving up more ppg when Horford is playing?

While you are explaining that maybe you can explain Horfords horrible +/- of -5.8 per game.

Deron Williams falls into the same category, he NEVER has a good +/-. This year he's at -0.8.

Yeah, Horford had a bad +/- last year as well. Regardless he's a better option than Zaza.

And, Zaza may be a better matchup for the BIG centers like Dwight but I'd never go as far to say he's a better defender than Horford regardless of the +/-. Zaza is honestly one of the worst defenders I've ever seen. No +/- stat could ever convince me he's the better defender because it's just not true.