Diesel's theory on offensive production.

[exodus]

When you consider the context of being able to create for themselves... It's very close.

Yet again you ignore the facts. When JJ was out there was nobody to create for Marvin and he went off. When Bibby and Smith were out and Marvin had to step up he went off.

You are confusing Marvin with Childress. Childress could never create for himself.

[Diesel]

It's interesting:

Iverson has missed three straight games, all Pistons wins. Detroit is six games under .500 with Iverson starting, which Curry says Iverson won't do when his back is healthy enough for him to play.

The Pistons had dropped eight straight until last Friday when they snapped the skid in Orlando against the Magic, 93-85. The win came without Iverson, as Rip Hamilton was inserted back in the starting lineup after 16 games. The Pistons went just 4-12 during that stretch..

"This change is more than about Allen and Rip," Curry said last Friday. "We hope that with this change, more guys will play better. Hopefully this will allow us to execute better, get us back in sync and rejuvenate us."

[Diesel]

There is only one little problem with this theory. The Hawks are averaging 97.75 ppg when Marvin is out which is almost identical to their 98.1 ppg season average.

ISO Joe is in full swing right now. Everyone can see it except Diesel. The only difference is that JJ is hitting more often.

Iso joe is not in full swing and maybe our pace have changed... Thing is that when you watch the game you see our ball movement is a lot better.

Moreover, you say everyone can see it except Diesel? What's this antidiesel propaganda.. I told you that as we win more and more, your arguments will be shown as the silliness that they are.

Even Hotlanta is claiming that our ball movement and offense is better. I think the only ones missing it are those who are not watching the game. ISo Joe full swing??? You're funny. Go back to Realgm and get their version of the game before you come back!!!

[exodus]

Iso joe is not in full swing and maybe our pace have changed... Thing is that when you watch the game you see our ball movement is a lot better.

Moreover, you say everyone can see it except Diesel? What's this antidiesel propaganda.. I told you that as we win more and more, your arguments will be shown as the silliness that they are.

Even Hotlanta is claiming that our ball movement and offense is better. I think the only ones missing it are those who are not watching the game. ISo Joe full swing??? You're funny. Go back to Realgm and get their version of the game before you come back!!!

First of all your thread got punked because we aren't scoring any more without Marvin.

Secondly JJ's scoring on 1 on 1 plays like he has done all year. He scored 10 of the Hawks first 16 points by taking his man off the dribble repeatedly. There wasn't any ball movement at all.

JJ does his thing and if the defense collapses he kicks it out. You act like Woody has suddenly changed his offensive scheme. Sorry that is just delusional. And it isn't like Marvin is a ball stopper. You are the one criticizing him for not being aggressive enough yet at the same time you say the ball movement is better without him. typical Diesel contradiction.

Hotlanta swore off watching the games weeks ago. How would he even know what the Hawks are doing?

[Diesel]

First of all your thread got punked because we aren't scoring any more without Marvin.

Secondly JJ's scoring on 1 on 1 plays like he has done all year. He scored 10 of the Hawks first 16 points by taking his man off the dribble repeatedly. There wasn't any ball movement at all.

JJ does his thing and if the defense collapses he kicks it out. You act like Woody has suddenly changed his offensive scheme. Sorry that is just delusional. And it isn't like Marvin is a ball stopper. You are the one criticizing him for not being aggressive enough yet at the same time you say the ball movement is better without him. typical Diesel contradiction.

Man, you sound like a child. My thread got punked? Really? When?

Here's the deal, we who have watched have noticed a change in the way our offense plays. For starters, we don't run ISO joe... As I schooled you on last time, just because Joe has the ball in his hands it doesn't mean that it's an iso play. I would have thought you would have gone and tried to google what Iso is by now.

Second. I don't think our scoring has been this balanced all season. Even with Joe's streak of thirty. We're getting 4 and 5 players into double digit.

So what if we don't score above the average. Our pace is different. Mostly because we have a lead at the end of games so instead of running around trying to catchup and shooting quick shots, we're holding the ball, running the clock down and our scoring may be lower. However, that has nothing to do with how well our offense is playing. Again, if you watched, you would know that.

So the only real thing to ponder is how long will you be pissing in the wind about the Hawks ppgs as if you've found something. All you found is undefeated without Marvin and Offense is better and defense is better.

[DrReality]

ob⋅ses⋅sion   /əbˈsɛʃən/ –

noun 1. the domination of one's thoughts or feelings by a persistent idea, image, desire, etc.

Give it a rest.

[DrReality]

I think that is worth a shot. Would be a natural way to have him get back into the rotation.

[Diesel]

I'm sure somewhere watching the game via realgm commentary and ESPN game box scores, Exodus was at the house saying "Please make it stop!!!" "Please don't let the Hawks win another one. I want to be right for a change. If they keep winning then people will start to see that maybe we are better having Marvin come off the bench like Diesel Says". Ex went to the local cathedral and lit candles and prayed in the pews. He then got some chicken feet and cows blood and spread them around the Phil. He then called Woodrow's phone during the game and asked him to stop the winning. He then tried looking for new excuses for the Hawks win. He looked up the injury list for PTL and found that everybody was healthy. He looked and saw that they were 6-4 in their last 10 and streaking. He even checked to see if something has been said about Nate McMillian and if he had family problems.

So today he will come in with his ultimate excuse...

They were ICE COLD.

[exodus]

Man, you sound like a child. My thread got punked? Really? When?

Here's the deal, we who have watched have noticed a change in the way our offense plays. For starters, we don't run ISO joe... As I schooled you on last time, just because Joe has the ball in his hands it doesn't mean that it's an iso play. I would have thought you would have gone and tried to google what Iso is by now.

Second. I don't think our scoring has been this balanced all season. Even with Joe's streak of thirty. We're getting 4 and 5 players into double digit.

So what if we don't score above the average. Our pace is different. Mostly because we have a lead at the end of games so instead of running around trying to catchup and shooting quick shots, we're holding the ball, running the clock down and our scoring may be lower. However, that has nothing to do with how well our offense is playing. Again, if you watched, you would know that.

So the only real thing to ponder is how long will you be pissing in the wind about the Hawks ppgs as if you've found something. All you found is undefeated without Marvin and Offense is better and defense is better.

So the reason the Hawks aren't scoring more without Marvin is because they are playing at a slower pace? You are really reaching now.

The Hawks are 24th in the league in pace of play on the season. They play at a slow pace WITH Marvin. Over the last 4 games they are averaging 20 fast break points per game, 4 pts over their average. If anything they are pushing the pace more with Marvin out.

Speaking of balanced scoring JJ had more points than any two Hawks. Mo had 2 pts, Murray 3.

[jhay610]

Like i have said, Joe gets better options when we have other ball handers and scorers on the floor.

He's getting the same looks he's gotten all year. Nearly all of his points today were off shots he created off the dribble. He wasn't out there spotting up and letting 'the extra ballhandler' create shots for him.

The Go Joe offense is in full effect.

You're reaching.

Edited March 15, 2009 by jhay610

[exodus]

He looked up the injury list for PTL and found that everybody was healthy.

Actually i hadn't mentioned Portlands injuries but since you brought it up....

Ever hear of a guy named Oden? Rudy was playing his first game after being taken out by Ariza (he averages 10 ppg but went scoreless tonight) and Webster has missed the whole year.

[Peoriabird]

The Go Joe offense is in full effect.

You're reaching.

Reaching? Delusional is probably a better description!

[tonegully]

Hawksquawk, where hating happens.

[mrhonline]

As someone said in the chat, the only plus to Marvin's injury is that it forces Woodson to use his bench. And, with quite a few minutes available to Rio, Evans, and Acie, the competition has been a good thing.

If the Hawks continue to play this well on the road, I think you've got yourself a legit argument. I don't expect the bench to play as well on the road...

Also, I don't buy the "it allows the Hawks to have an additional ballhandler" idea. There's no reason you couldn't play Joe at the 3 when Marvin's not in the game. It's what many of us have been calling for for a while. It allows you to divvy up the backup 1/2 minutes between Flip, Acie, and Evans according to who's shooting well.

[AtLaS]

Actually i hadn't mentioned Portlands injuries but since you brought it up....

Ever hear of a guy named Oden? Rudy was playing his first game after being taken out by Ariza (he averages 10 ppg but went scoreless tonight) and Webster has missed the whole year.

It still doesn't take away from the fact that this was another very impressive win. Rudy is not the key to Portlands success and Portland is still a very good team without Oden.

[mrhonline]

The defensive energy was spectacular. It was a solid win, albeit at home. The Hawks know they can beat any team on the planet at home.

The real growth, and, I expect, the goal for next season, will be to get better on the road. It's what separates the good teams from the great ones.

[exodus]

It still doesn't take away from the fact that this was another very impressive win. Rudy is not the key to Portlands success and Portland is still a very good team without Oden.

I agree they are a good team without Oden. However Diesel claimed they were healthy which they obviously aren't.

rudy might not be the key for them but they needed a 3rd scorer tonight. Roy and LMA got off but nobody else did anything.

To me the big keys were having only 5 turnovers and Portland getting only 10 offensive rebounds. Teams usually get a lot of easy points against us off turnovers and putbacks. That didn't happen tonight which makes the Hawks defense much tougher.

[mrhonline]

Consensus on the couple of Blazers' boards I just read was that not having Oden to score inside changes the way teams defend them.

Personally, I think the difference in the game was believing that Batum could defend Joe. That was a huge mistake. We'd be slaughtering Woody for doing that.

Edited March 15, 2009 by mrhonline

[BusBoyIsBack]

This is non-sense.

Mo Evans is a better driving to the lane than Marvin? That's ridiculous.

This team started off 6-0 with both Marvin and Joe. Hell we are 2-0 without Joe. The Hawks are not a 1 man team anymore. That doesn't mean they are better off without Marvin or without Joe.

[gsuteke]

I regret the MO comment because it took away from the big picture which is better offensive execution due to an extra ball handler on the court.

Having said that though Exodus made a great point earlier. They're still running the same offense, Joe's just hitting shots now.