No Marvin, no problem? Hawks' road test against Cavs is barometer...

[BossTweed]

We replaced Childress. We removed Marvin. There's a big difference in the two.

I'm pretty sure we replaced Marvin too. I don't remember seeing the Hawks on the court with only 4 players.

I agree with ex, the Hawks play fine at home all the time. Marvin being there or not isn't what is making us win these games.

This game against Cleveland will really tell the tale. On the road against a great SF that Marvin plays very solid defense on.

[tonegully]

I dont believe MO is the answer. He cant finish and he has no mid-range game AT ALL. We will see at Cleveland on saturday what this team is made of. I want to see who checks Lebron.

[buckeye242424]

I dont believe MO is the answer. He cant finish and he has no mid-range game AT ALL. We will see at Cleveland on saturday what this team is made of. I want to see who checks Lebron.

I stated this in an earlier post, but I think JJ will spend a majority of the time guarding LeBron. WITH MARVIN OUT, JJ is the best match up physically and athletically to try and limit his scoring opportunities.

I agree with seeing if this streak is a mirage, or have we actually arrived as a team that can advance in the playoffs. I'm not expecting a win in Cleveland, they've only lost one at home, but we need to compete and hopefully have a chance to win it at the end.

[crimedog]

We replaced Childress. We removed Marvin. There's a big difference in the two.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Hawks undefeated without Chil last season, or close to it?

[frosgrim]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Hawks undefeated without Chil last season, or close to it?

The Hawks also have a better record since letting Childress go.

The above is a spurious argument that lacks any real-time evidence. No one can adequately control for the natural maturation of the other players ont he team, nor the full season with a healthy Bibby. But one way to look at the result is that Childress prevented the Hawks from winning more than 37 games. Again its spurious and lacks any creadible evidence, but its the sort of argument the anti-Marvinites are making.

Attributing the current winning streak to being without Marvin is putting to events together and assuming a correlation. This is especially true when there are other mitigating factors. Marvin's injury occured at the same time that the team had its internal dicussion about playing hard (er-hmm Josh Smith's laziness on the boards) AND Woodson yanking Smith out of the game. You can make the equivical argument that it was this internal meeting and Smith getting serious on the boards that has lead to the current homestand. Also, during this time period Al Horford has increasingly become more vocal and more focused on the offensive end. This focus and play occured prior to Marvin's injury.

The reality is the Hawks were dominant at home before Marvin was hurt, its not surprising that they kept it up, given that Smith & Horfrod picked up thier games.

[crimedog]

The Hawks also have a better record since letting Childress go.

The above is a spurious argument that lacks any real-time evidence. No one can adequately control for the natural maturation of the other players ont he team, nor the full season with a healthy Bibby. But one way to look at the result is that Childress prevented the Hawks from winning more than 37 games. Again its spurious and lacks any creadible evidence, but its the sort of argument the anti-Marvinites are making.

Attributing the current winning streak to being without Marvin is putting to events together and assuming a correlation. This is especially true when there are other mitigating factors. Marvin's injury occured at the same time that the team had its internal dicussion about playing hard (er-hmm Josh Smith's laziness on the boards) AND Woodson yanking Smith out of the game. You can make the equivical argument that it was this internal meeting and Smith getting serious on the boards that has lead to the current homestand. Also, during this time period Al Horford has increasingly become more vocal and more focused on the offensive end. This focus and play occured prior to Marvin's injury.

The reality is the Hawks were dominant at home before Marvin was hurt, its not surprising that they kept it up, given that Smith & Horfrod picked up thier games.

Bravo.

[mrhonline]

[HAWKS1986]

I think the bigger statement is that we're not struggling without Marvin.

If you take a wheel off of your car, you expect it to be a bumpy ride... Regardless of where you go.

Well, we've taken Marvin off our roster and we have experienced success. Better success than we've had all year.... Home or not. Even if you decide to attribute the success to other factors, the loss of Marvin has not been experienced. For everyone that says Marvin is a very good defensive players... We lost Marvin and our defense is playing better than it ever did.

Precisely.

[DrReality]

The Cavs will be a great tune up. We've proven we can protect home court, now it is time to see what we can do on the road.

[Plainview1981]

One road game may or may not tell the whole story, but after having a very successful homestand-- the best since the late 1970's-- without their former number one draft choice Marvin Williams may give us a bigger indication that the chemistry is much better without MW receiving starter's minutes.

The Cavs are the best in the league right now with a great home record. It will be interesting to see how the Hawks respond to this road test. This team has proven they can adjust after slow starts and come back and beat teams--good teams (i.e. Utah, Portland, New Orleans, Dallas etc..)

The Hawks were dominant during the homestand winning by an average of twelve points! With Marvin playing his usual minutes as a starter, there would have been more nailbiters and bad losses that shouldn't have happened.

To me, the Cavs have always been beatable, but the lack of chemistry and execution on offense had always been an Achilles heel.

It's not exclusively about whether Maurice Evans is better than MW, but does the team execute their offense better without MW period...

There had been opposing theories that say people are all wrong about Marvin, but a team without Marvin getting significant minutes means a more happier Josh, a more effective Horford, a more productive JJ and mixing in the contributions of Zaza, Maurice and 6th man of the year nominee Flip Murray means the Hawks are better team with the unit they have playing right now.

People say this as if the Hawks were winning on the road with Marvin in the line up.

[Joker]

This is that ATL-75 cat from the Falcons forum who is a constant with garbage comments. As for Marvin being out, I doubt that has serious effect to our overall chemistry. I remember when JJ was out we were winning games ppl wanted JJ gone. This is a long season, we have a good starting 5. One of the best in basketball. Stop posting garbage! This is expected from diesel who make it known he hates Marvin but outside of him, this crap needs to end.

[Diesel]

The reality is the Hawks were dominant at home before Marvin was hurt, its not surprising that they kept it up, given that Smith & Horfrod picked up thier games.

The thing is that if Marvin were so important to the team. If his contribution just made a 5% difference.. we would see it on the court. On the court, it's like Marvin never played right now. Really.. Can you look at any part of how we play and say " Man, we sure do miss Marvin's ___________________".

That's what the "Anti-Marvinites" are seeing.

[mrhonline]

Good teams win at home without a starter in the lineup all the time.

I think this is yet another remnant of the "loser" mentality we are all trying to shake off around here. We act so shocked that there is actually some decent perimeter depth on this team. We're used to freaking out if a starter goes down...

[Diesel]

Good teams win at home without a starter in the lineup all the time.

I think this is yet another remnant of the "loser" mentality we are all trying to shake off around here. We act so shocked that there is actually some decent perimeter depth on this team. We're used to freaking out if a starter goes down...

How many good teams are better at home when one of their starters is out than they were with him in?

The issue is not that we're winning at home MrH. We expect to do that. You're right. The issue is that without a starter, we're playing much better at home. Our defense is much better at home than it was before. Our chemistry is much better at home.

I wonder what you guys will say when we beat Cleveland on the road tomorrow.

Get that excuse machine oiled up good tonight!!!

[exodus]

This is that ATL-75 cat from the Falcons forum who is a constant with garbage comments. As for Marvin being out, I doubt that has serious effect to our overall chemistry. I remember when JJ was out we were winning games ppl wanted JJ gone. This is a long season, we have a good starting 5. One of the best in basketball. Stop posting garbage! This is expected from diesel who make it known he hates Marvin but outside of him, this crap needs to end.

This might be your best post ever.

:worshippy:

[HAWKS1986]

How many good teams are better at home when one of their starters is out than they were with him in?

The issue is not that we're winning at home MrH. We expect to do that. You're right. The issue is that without a starter, we're playing much better at home. Our defense is much better at home than it was before. Our chemistry is much better at home.

I wonder what you guys will say when we beat Cleveland on the road tomorrow.

Get that excuse machine oiled up good tonight!!!

It would be interesting to see what excuses that would be put forth if the Hawks go on the road and beat Cleveland...

Right now opposing teams are hoping Marvin comes back soon...

[HAWKS1986]

This is that ATL-75 cat from the Falcons forum who is a constant with garbage comments. As for Marvin being out, I doubt that has serious effect to our overall chemistry. I remember when JJ was out we were winning games ppl wanted JJ gone. This is a long season, we have a good starting 5. One of the best in basketball. Stop posting garbage! This is expected from diesel who make it known he hates Marvin but outside of him, this crap needs to end.

In all due respect, I think you have me confused with someone else.....nba superstar

And I don't think Diesel hates Marvin, nobody hates Marvin... The team just have a different new dynamic with MW out of the lineup, and it may mean his days as a starter should be evaluated.

The chemistry of the team is the most important thing right now and the Hawks are playing at a much different, consistent higher level with MW out of the lineup completely... that's reality.

[mrhonline]

The issue is that without a starter, we're playing much better at home. Our defense is much better at home than it was before. Our chemistry is much better at home.

The Hawks were one of the best teams at home in the NBA even before Marvin was injured.

There is a definite difference with the defense, though. What is that difference, you ask? Defensive rebounding. (If you watched the game yesterday, you would know that the Hawks were getting killed on the off. boards early, and fell behind).

Was Marvin the problem with the defensive rebounding? I doubt it.

The difference on defense is Josh Smith, and he should be applauded for stepping up his game defensively.

Edited March 20, 2009 by mrhonline

[mrhonline]

And, for what it's worth, I don't think that Cleveland is a good barometer. They're virtually unbeatable at home.

The game in Philly at the end of the month will be the real barometer.

[Diesel]

And, for what it's worth, I don't think that Cleveland is a good barometer. They're virtually unbeatable at home.

The game in Philly at the end of the month will be the real barometer.

I'm glad you said that. SO, if we go into Cleveland and beat the unbeatable... will it take away the homecourt advantage excuse that people have been giving for the streak??