No Marvin, no problem? Hawks' road test against Cavs is barometer...

[HAWKS1986]

Chris Paul and Deron Williams are not relevant to the argument that Marvin Williams shoud/should not be starting on this Hawks team.

They are relevant because they were all Top 5 picks, and players picked that high are projected to be franchise players. Both Paul and Williams are All-Stars, yet Marvin is still in the developmental stage after four seasons.

Marvin had his chance to start, and there is a strong possibility, he has seen his last days starting for ANY TEAM...

Too much is given, much is required..the so called experts put forth Marvin as one of the best talents in the league. Marvin isn't half the player Wade is or Carmelo or even Corey Maggette. Other young small forwards such as Michael Beasley and Granger are already more complete of a player than Marvin...

I don't know if Marvin will come back during the playoffs, but he is on a very short leash... he has to perform at a higher level MORE OFTEN...no more excuses about being young, it is time for him to come into his own right here and right now...

Some Hawks' fans try to make excuses for Marvin, but unfortunately in 2009, those have run out. The disappearing acts from games will need to stop especially if he wants to receive another contract from the Hawks. The Hawks are a legitimate playoff contender and signing/extending Marvin have to come with conditions that his game is improving. And is Marvin a leader or a follower? Right now, he is still a developmental follower. He has had opportunities to break out of his shell such as on the road against Boston or Cleveland or on West Coast trips where the Hawks generally get hammered. Marvin hasn't distinguished himself as a player... JUST LIKE CHILDRESS... and that's why Chill is gone. Chillz game flatlined and his injuries started to become more relevant, so the Hawks cut their losses.

Marvin's next... The mistake of drafting Shelden was erased by managment, a former Top 5 flop and Chillz was a Top 6 flop, and Marvin is the next in the long line of first round flops (Keefe, Doug Edwards, Shelden, Diaw, Chillz, and Marvin...? If the Hawks are going to get to the next level then, former top picks got to pick up their games and start to make a more consistent impact especially in the fourth quarters and/on the road against good teams.

[HAWKS1986]

There goes the last scrap of your credibility. Neither Acie or Mario shoot it with half the aplomb that Marvin does. If I see Mario West pull up for a go-ahead 3 at the end of the game I will then look to the sky expecting our Lord and Savior to be on His way.

After four years, Marvin's credibility as a franchise player and living up to his first status has taken a severe hit, and the Hawks' recent run only illustrates how this team is far more better with Marvin receiving significantly less playing time or keeping him on the bench permanently until a trade comes along.

[exodus]

After four years, Marvin's credibility as a franchise player and living up to his first status has taken a severe hit, and the Hawks' recent run only illustrates how this team is far more better with Marvin receiving significantly less playing time or keeping him on the bench permanently until a trade comes along.

what a train wreck of a post. Who has called Marvin a franchise player? What does "his first status" mean? "Far more better"??

[EazyRoc]

They are relevant because they were all Top 5 picks, and players picked that high are projected to be franchise players. Both Paul and Williams are All-Stars, yet Marvin is still in the developmental stage after four seasons.

Marvin had his chance to start, and there is a strong possibility, he has seen his last days starting for ANY TEAM...

Too much is given, much is required..the so called experts put forth Marvin as one of the best talents in the league. Marvin isn't half the player Wade is or Carmelo or even Corey Maggette. Other young small forwards such as Michael Beasley and Granger are already more complete of a player than Marvin...

I don't know if Marvin will come back during the playoffs, but he is on a very short leash... he has to perform at a higher level MORE OFTEN...no more excuses about being young, it is time for him to come into his own right here and right now...

Some Hawks' fans try to make excuses for Marvin, but unfortunately in 2009, those have run out. The disappearing acts from games will need to stop especially if he wants to receive another contract from the Hawks. The Hawks are a legitimate playoff contender and signing/extending Marvin have to come with conditions that his game is improving. And is Marvin a leader or a follower? Right now, he is still a developmental follower. He has had opportunities to break out of his shell such as on the road against Boston or Cleveland or on West Coast trips where the Hawks generally get hammered. Marvin hasn't distinguished himself as a player... JUST LIKE CHILDRESS... and that's why Chill is gone. Chillz game flatlined and his injuries started to become more relevant, so the Hawks cut their losses.

Marvin's next... The mistake of drafting Shelden was erased by managment, a former Top 5 flop and Chillz was a Top 6 flop, and Marvin is the next in the long line of first round flops (Keefe, Doug Edwards, Shelden, Diaw, Chillz, and Marvin...? If the Hawks are going to get to the next level then, former top picks got to pick up their games and start to make a more consistent impact especially in the fourth quarters and/on the road against good teams.

Marvin was predicted to be a 3-5 year project by draft analysts, and in year 4, I think he's finally starting to show his potential. He's no longer developmental and is a legitimate player who needs more opportunity to shine.

Marvin isn't half the player Maggette is ? Whoa. No comment.

It seems to me that you're regurgitating everything Diesel says. Did he give you a script or something ?

[HAWKS1986]

what a train wreck of a post. Who has called Marvin a franchise player? What does "his first status" mean? "Far more better"??

X-man: You are a train wreck in trying to desperately defend a player will never live up to his first round status. His days are numbered as a Hawk.. it is inevitable

[HAWKS1986]

Marvin was predicted to be a 3-5 year project by draft analysts, and in year 4, I think he's finally starting to show his potential. He's no longer developmental and is a legitimate player who needs more opportunity to shine.

Marvin isn't half the player Maggette is ? Whoa. No comment.

It seems to me that you're regurgitating everything Diesel says. Did he give you a script or something ?

No script. In regards to Marvin, I guess there is agreement.

Marvin is just teasing right now.

[exodus]

X-man: You are a train wreck in trying to desperately defend a player will never live up to his first round status. His days are numbered as a Hawk.. it is inevitable

First round status? Sorry to burst your bubble but most 1st round picks never become as productive as Marvin is right now.

[JJFAN4LF]

Honestly, I don't think there should be an argument right now. Until we see Marvin with the Hawks that is playing right now(and not the one that was playing before he got hurt) and we see the Hawks lose, we can't say Marvin is hurting the team.

[tonegully]

The thing is that if Marvin were so important to the team. If his contribution just made a 5% difference.. we would see it on the court. On the court, it's like Marvin never played right now. Really.. Can you look at any part of how we play and say " Man, we sure do miss Marvin's ___________________".

That's what the "Anti-Marvinites" are seeing.

Everytime Mo misses anything inside 20ft i say that. "I sure miss Marvin."

Marvin is a scoring option we have lost. Mo can not replace that, period. I hope it doesnt happen but as soon as JJ goes cold and Smoove goes back to his old ways and Bibby continues to shoot bad from the field you are going wish we had someone who can get to the FT line and attack the basket.

No one attacks the basket and gets to the line like Marvin does. The closest we have is Flip off the bench.

Besides i LOVE our starting 5. If Woody used them correctly which he has very few times. Our 5 can score anywhere and anytime. With Marvin in JJ doesnt have to attack the basket so much because Marvin will. If JJ does attack and draw a double team, Marvin is posted right by that 3pt line. When Smoove doesnt want to get any boards Marvin will get them. If JJ cant score or goes cold post up Marvin. I mean Marvin brings alot to our team.

The way Woody subs, Marvin doesnt need to come off the bench because either Smoove or Marvin gets pulled out anyways at that first time out.

[tonegully]

Cory Maggette and Beasly...you cant be serious!!!!

[HawksBalla]

I think the argument against Marvin took a big hit today. He is one of our few players that can catch fire and carry the team offensively. Plus we miss his athleticism...I think only Josh Smith is more athletic. And some of our scorers (Flip, Bibby) are just too darn streaky. Now with him out, our depth is really being exploited, and we look so helpless on offense.

I am offically off the "we are better without Marvin" train (subject to change).

[Admin]

I think the argument against Marvin took a big hit today. He is one of our few players that can catch fire and carry the team offensively. Plus we miss his athleticism...I think only Josh Smith is more athletic. And some of our scorers (Flip, Bibby) are just too darn streaky. Now with him out, our depth is really being exploited, and we look so helpless on offense.

I am offically off the "we are better without Marvin" train (subject to change).

I'm not saying it was a legitimate argument against Marvin but if it was then today isn't a good game to kill that argument since we got blown out here earlier in the year with Marvin and I highly doubt he would have made a difference thus far. We're simply giving a poor effort out there and it would have taken Michael Jordan in his prime to get us fired up for this game apparently.

[exodus]

I'm not saying it was a legitimate argument against Marvin but if it was then today isn't a good game to kill that argument since we got blown out here earlier in the year with Marvin and I highly doubt he would have made a difference thus far. We're simply giving a poor effort out there and it would have taken Michael Jordan in his prime to get us fired up for this game apparently.

JJ was in bad shape the first game we played in Cleveland. Horford said JJ could barely walk before the game started and he finished 1-8. That game was also the 2nd of a back to back.

Edited March 21, 2009 by exodus

[Diesel]

JJ was in bad shape the first game we played in Cleveland. Horford said JJ could barely walk before the game started and he finished 1-8. That game was also the 2nd of a back to back.

The excuse machine cranks up...

[BusBoyIsBack]

Anyone who thinks we are a better team without Marvin has their judgment completely impaired by their hate for the guy.

The guy has like the highest TS% on the team.

[Diesel]

Anyone who thinks we are a better team without Marvin has their judgment completely impaired by their hate for the guy.

The guy has like the highest TS% on the team.

We're not a worse team without Marvin.

[FrankWhite]

God, make it stop.

[exodus]

The excuse machine cranks up...

So facts are excuses now?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Gotta love how reactionary this board is. I guess the Jazz don't need Carlos Boozer either, seeing how well Milsap played in his place, and how successful the Jazz were in Boozer's absence.

The 7 game home win streak had more to do with JJ playing like an upper echilon player, than it did with Marvin being out of the lineup. This team is going to need Marvin come playoff time. We may can get past Miami without him, but we sure in the hell won't get past Cleveland, Boston, or Orlando without him.

The fact is that this team is a pretty good home team. They play with much more energy and emotion at home, than they do on the road. On the road, they're the carbon copy of the Utah Jazz . . a team that almost never beats a good team on the road, and will occasionally drop a game against a bad team. The Jazz and the Hawks are mirror images of each other.

I'm just glad we only got 5 road games left.

Home win per season progression of the Hawks, during Woody's tenure as coach:

9 . . . 18 . . . 18 . . . 25 . . . 27 ( projected - 31 by me )

Road win per season progression of the Hawks, during Woody's tenure as coach:

4 . . . 8 . . . 12 . . . 12 . . . 14 ( projected - 16 by me )

[mrhonline]

Home win per season progression of the Hawks, during Woody's tenure as coach:

9 . . . 18 . . . 18 . . . 25 . . . 27 ( projected - 31 by me )

Road win per season progression of the Hawks, during Woody's tenure as coach:

4 . . . 8 . . . 12 . . . 12 . . . 14 ( projected - 16 by me )

That's some terrific analysis right there, northcyde.

Can we all agree to let this argument die until the Hawks play in Philly on the 31st? It's just my opinion, but I think we've pretty much exhausted the argument at this point...