Finding a good defensive PG

[AtLaS]

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=914537

We have Celtic fans bashing Rondo's D. In that thread they seem about split on the fact that he gambles too much and the bigs pay the price when he gets beat off the dribble.

I think it's just the recent hand check rule, noone can stay in front of anyone because you can't put your hands on them. Gary Payton would not be "the Glove" under the new rules. This is why LeBron is so deadly. He just dribbles at the top of the key, puts his head down and goes.

I think this just proves that most teams consider their PGs to be bad defenders. Bibby may be a little worse than most, but under these rules it's extremely tough to play D. When you see EVERY game a player plays, you see all their weaknesses and every time they get beat defensively.

Edited June 18, 2009 by AtLaS

[NJHAWK]

One thing I will give Mike Bibby credit for is he gives 100% effort on defense. He is older and the league has worn him down some but he gives the effort.

[AHF]

It doesn't look like much of a split to me.

Rondo = overrated defender: cfan79, JellyBean, Celtics>Breathing, recruiter

Post is wrong about Rondo being overrated defender: dsorc, Darth Celtic, avi623, Tricky Ricky, GuyClinch, sam_I_am, DorfonCeltics, Luxurytaxlotterybust, I love heinsohn, MVE85, Inside/Outside (although agrees that Rondo gambles too much), Rocky5000, armageddon, hickfromfrenchlick, Triple M, pac213up, BakersDozen, GreenMachine, Bad-Thoma, MyInsatiableOne

That said, I totally agree that it is very difficult to defend against quick players in today's NBA. Bibby's problem is that he cannot take advantage of his quickness on offense and gets abused on defense. Given Mike Woodson's swapping D, we at least need someone who can fight through a pick to stay with their man. Otherwise, it just invites easily exploitable matchup problems.

[NineOhTheRino]

One thing I will give Mike Bibby credit for is he gives 100% effort on defense. He is older and the league has worn him down some but he gives the effort.

Mike Bibby should have made the NBA's 1st-Team All-Defensive Team.

[AtLaS]

It doesn't look like much of a split to me.

Rondo = overrated defender: cfan79, JellyBean, Celtics>Breathing, recruiter

Post is wrong about Rondo being overrated defender: dsorc, Darth Celtic, avi623, Tricky Ricky, GuyClinch, sam_I_am, DorfonCeltics, Luxurytaxlotterybust, I love heinsohn, MVE85, Inside/Outside (although agrees that Rondo gambles too much), Rocky5000, armageddon, hickfromfrenchlick, Triple M, pac213up, BakersDozen, GreenMachine, Bad-Thoma, MyInsatiableOne

That said, I totally agree that it is very difficult to defend against quick players in today's NBA. Bibby's problem is that he cannot take advantage of his quickness on offense and gets abused on defense. Given Mike Woodson's swapping D, we at least need someone who can fight through a pick to stay with their man. Otherwise, it just invites easily exploitable matchup problems.

Yeah, that's true. I wasn't using this to say Bibby was a good defender or anything, just saying how hard it is to defend the position. Bibby is still a bottom 5 PG defending starter in the NBA pretty easily IMO.

But, reading the thread it got me thinking. When I'm watching the Hawks and one of our players gets beat, I'm looking at the person who got beat on defense rather than crediting the offensive player. When I watch two random teams play, I just say "nice move" to the offensive player. Even the best defenders get scored on multiple times per game.

[MaceCase]

I don't think anyone would argue that Bibby is passive on defense, his legs just can't do what his mind tells them to do. Other points like Rondo and Paul may be better with their quickness but can still get exploited with their size thus why you constantly see them and others go more for the steal than play man on. Of course their gambles aren't as exacerbated due to the fact they have 7foot shotblockers behind them and not 6'9" guys who have been switched out to guard perimeter players.

[Frenzy]

just like we know how Josh is on defense, but alot of people think he's some great lockdown D player

[MaceCase]

just like we know how Josh is on defense, but alot of people think he's some great lockdown D player

Nothing wrong with being a great help defender, Camby and Ben Wallace made a career out of being tremendous help defenders but mediocre at best man defenders.

[AtLaS]

Help defense is at LEAST as important as man, possibly more. That's how the Spurs have played such great D all these years. That's how Orlando and Cleveland are such great defensive teams. Not many great individual man defenders (other than Bowen for SA) yet they are at the top of the league.

And, Josh is so underrated as a defender on this site it's ridiculous. His help D and blocks dropped this season because of the ankle injury in which he was obviously feeling for a while. But his man defense has improved alot. Duncan is a great defender yet he gets scored on a lot. Garnett, same. When you see every game you see every point they give up, so it looks worse.

[Frenzy]

Nothing wrong with being a great help defender, Camby and Ben Wallace made a career out of being tremendous help defenders but mediocre at best man defenders.

i agree

[DrReality]

Tony Douglas.

[Cwell]

just play Acie,problem solved

[KB21]

just play Acie,problem solved

Acie has the ability to be a very good defender at the point guard position. The problem with him is that he apparently doesn't fit the style that Mike Woodson wants to play. Mike runs the offense through Joe Johnson, so the point guard in essence in this system plays the majority of the time without the ball and needs to be a good spot up jump shooter. Acie is better with the ball in his hands. He's not a spot up shooter, and he's not very good off the ball at this point. Considering this, he has gotten very little playing time to work on his ability off the ball. I don't know if this is being worked on in practice, but offensively, if he is going to play he has to get better off the ball.

[Cwell]

Acie has the ability to be a very good defender at the point guard position. The problem with him is that he apparently doesn't fit the style that Mike Woodson wants to play. Mike runs the offense through Joe Johnson, so the point guard in essence in this system plays the majority of the time without the ball and needs to be a good spot up jump shooter. Acie is better with the ball in his hands. He's not a spot up shooter, and he's not very good off the ball at this point. Considering this, he has gotten very little playing time to work on his ability off the ball. I don't know if this is being worked on in practice, but offensively, if he is going to play he has to get better off the ball.

no, Woodson just needs to go so we can get a real offense