Hawks moves vs. Everybody else's.

[MaceCase]

But what big name free agents have we missed out on this offseason? Ariza really? The slew off 35 year olds already in their twillights? We have to be responsible, we have a young team that will be competing in this league for years to come. We can't hamstring our cap like these other teams that have 2 years at best before they get absolutely dismantled and have to start rebuilding with nothing in the foundation. Our core is young and full of potential and with our core group resigned and with the MLE to go out to get some notable bigs like Wilcox and Gooden we will be competive this year for a 3rd seed this year and the year after that. These other dinosaur teams can't say the same for next year's season yet alone this season and are one knee ligament sprain away from having that whole group traded off for draft picks and young prospects.

[thescout5]

I think Rick Sund is doing the best he can this offseason. It's clear to us that all the big name Free Agents out there aren't interested in playing for us. I think the best way to deal with that situation is to keep on winning and Rick Sund is making sure we do it by keeping things "regular". If we keep on showing that we can match up with the likes of Boston, Cleveland, San Antonio, Los Angeles Lakers, etc., then big name Free Agents will slowly immigrate to us.

What can you really do if none of the decent bigs don't want to play for you. It's why the Celtics,Lakers,Cleveland,Orlando's will be tough to beat since most NBA players feel they will contend for titles.The Hawks I seriously think management is satisfied just making the playoffs. This is a losers mentality and won't change until some how a legit big is obtained. Remember we got JJ overpaying for him money wise and no other top free agent has signed since.

Seems like we have being waiting forever on Marvin,Smoov,JJ,Horford,Bibby to show us this team is legit when its only been a couple of years. After getting our butts handed to us vs Cleveland I don't see the Hawks realizing the potential some think they can achieve. The offense looked terrible vs Cleveland plus the Hawks barely beat Miami in round 1. Some want to drink the water and think this team will mature and all of the sudden be bonafide contrenders for the title yet the Hawks have done nothing to address the rebound,block shots big man the team needs to close the gap on the other teams.

Edited July 8, 2009 by thescout5

[LordOfNYork]

I just hate when ppl tell themselves well don't worry guys, give us 2-3 from now and we'll be at the top. Those teams are gonna be old by the time we peak. LOL as if the Atlanta hawks will be the only team to accomplish this. You have the Bulls, Miami, Magic etc and wherever there's a superstar, other players want to play with you. The Magic have a pretty good shot to own the east for the next few years due to a young superstar big, great weather city, and it's a paradise for free agents. I can guarantee when Celtics get "old" they will re-up. Cleveland, Boston, Detroit aren't gonna just roll over and die. They have great management

And please, Josh smith and marvin williams are what they are...nothing more, not all-stars never will be superstars dude

[coachx]

I think Rick Sund is doing the best he can this offseason. It's clear to us that all the big name Free Agents out there aren't interested in playing for us. I think the best way to deal with that situation is to keep on winning and Rick Sund is making sure we do it by keeping things "regular". If we keep on showing that we can match up with the likes of Boston, Cleveland, San Antonio, Los Angeles Lakers, etc., then big name Free Agents will slowly immigrate to us.

They would be interested if we had salary cap room.

Most of the complaints on the squawk center around this lack of understanding.

WE HAVE NO ROOM UNDER THE CAP TO SIGN OTHER TEAMS FA'S DUE TO CAP HOLDS.

I do agree with the last part of your post. Very soon we will be attracting the veterans who take the MLE like Wallace did this year. (I would rather have ZaZa then Wallace at this point in his career any way. Its has been 3 years since Wallace has dove on the floor or or put forth any extra effort. He is one of the laziest players in the league. The Celtics would have been better off targeting Gooden.........but he may have no interest in leaving the Spurs.

Edited July 8, 2009 by coachx

[DeacKillsaDevil]

I think Rick Sund is doing the best he can this offseason. It's clear to us that all the big name Free Agents out there aren't interested in playing for us. I think the best way to deal with that situation is to keep on winning and Rick Sund is making sure we do it by keeping things "regular". If we keep on showing that we can match up with the likes of Boston, Cleveland, San Antonio, Los Angeles Lakers, etc., then big name Free Agents will slowly immigrate to us.

I think we need to put some consecutive winning seasons together before we can attract the big name FA's. This season is critical for attracting a big FA next summer.

Edited July 8, 2009 by DeacKillsaDevil

[BusBoyIsBack]

What people have to realize is that we are a young team that can progress.

Last year we didn't make any moves besides getting Mo and Flip and we won 10 more games. Is it because of how great Mo and Flip were vs Childress?

No it's because our team PROGRESSED.

This year we've made a few more tweaks to improve by improving our depth with Crawford and Teague. But in addition to that our guys could progress even further.

Talent wise we have a potential to be a top 5 team in the NBA 2-3 years from now. The key is patience of the fans and the front office to allow that to happen

==

I just hate when ppl tell themselves well don't worry guys, give us 2-3 from now and we'll be at the top. Those teams are gonna be old by the time we peak. LOL as if the Atlanta hawks will be the only team to accomplish this. You have the Bulls, Miami, Magic etc and wherever there's a superstar, other players want to play with you. The Magic have a pretty good shot to own the east for the next few years due to a young superstar big, great weather city, and it's a paradise for free agents. I can guarantee when Celtics get "old" they will re-up. Cleveland, Boston, Detroit aren't gonna just roll over and die. They have great management

And please, Josh smith and marvin williams are what they are...nothing more, not all-stars never will be superstars dude

You're completely naive if you think Boston will be as good as this Hawks team as currently constructed 2-3 years from now if those guys are gone. This isn't college football where teams like USC just re-up that easily. There will be some huge growing pains in Boston as their basically entire team with the exception of Rondo is old.

Detroit lost Rasheed Wallace, and you may bash Josh Smith and Marvin but they have more potential than Ben Gordon and Charlie V.

Cleveland once Shaq and Big Ben are gone, they aren't getting anybody else that will be as good a front court as we have. THat's not a city that will attract FAs. If Lebron wants to play with a Bosh caliber Big he will have to leave Cleveland.

Edited July 8, 2009 by BusBoyIsBack

[MaceCase]

I just hate when ppl tell themselves well don't worry guys, give us 2-3 from now and we'll be at the top. Those teams are gonna be old by the time we peak. LOL as if the Atlanta hawks will be the only team to accomplish this. You have the Bulls, Miami, Magic etc and wherever there's a superstar, other players want to play with you. The Magic have a pretty good shot to own the east for the next few years due to a young superstar big, great weather city, and it's a paradise for free agents. I can guarantee when Celtics get "old" they will re-up. Cleveland, Boston, Detroit aren't gonna just roll over and die. They have great management

And please, Josh smith and marvin williams are what they are...nothing more, not all-stars never will be superstars dude

I agree the same rules that govern the Bulls getting better govern us getting better, the Heat simply don't have talent enough in their young guys outside of Beasley and he's stuck as a tweener and yes Orlando has Dwight but they hamstrung their cap surounding him with 30 year olds on large salaries. Besides that could you please name to me one major free agent that signed in Orlando for less than 20million per year? You would think guys would be running to go play in the sun at Disney World. You need to face reality yourself, how well did Boston "re-up" when Bird and them walked out that door? What exactly was Boston doing before they sold off the farm to acquire their stable of past their prime horses? Detroit had a chance to rebuild but they went ahead and blew 20 million on bench players and if their new rookie coach doesn't pan out Dumars is gone so say good bye to his "great" management. If you want a negative outlook on a franchise stick with your Knickerbockers buddy because the Hawks are a team on the rise.

[LordOfNYork]

I agree the same rules that govern the Bulls getting better govern us getting better, the Heat simply don't have talent enough in their young guys outside of Beasley and he's stuck as a tweener and yes Orlando has Dwight but they hamstrung their cap surounding him with 30 year olds on large salaries. Besides that could you please name to me one major free agent that signed in Orlando for less than 20million per year? You would think guys would be running to go play in the sun at Disney World. You need to face reality yourself, how well did Boston "re-up" when Bird and them walked out that door? What exactly was Boston doing before they sold off the farm to acquire their stable of past their prime horses? Detroit had a chance to rebuild but they went ahead and blew 20 million on bench players and if their new rookie coach doesn't pan out Dumars is gone so say good bye to his "great" management. If you want a negative outlook on a franchise stick with your Knickerbockers buddy because the Hawks are a team on the rise.

LOL nice, you made a few hopeful points. Don't know if you mean Dumars will be fired or he'll just leave. I doubt fired though. He's gotten the pistons to consecutive conference finals and won a ring beating the Lakers in really a 5-0 sweep with a dominant Shaq and a peaking kobe. He'll be fine. And you're comparing Boston 20yrs ago to the league now. No sirrrr, dude this is 2009 with a totally different NBA....Anyway yes, the young Hawks are on the rise. Ppl have been saying that after the 13 win season every year since. Listen, fact is the Hawks will pretty much be a tweener for some years. Keep organically growing/waiting for players like Josh Smith and Marvin's potential...The organization will never be the Spurs, but will never be the Knicks either. They'll make the playoffs, but I doubt will ever win a championship with Joe Johnson. So if you wanna play the age game then 2-3 years from now he'll be what, 29-30? Oh and Orlando has an all-star point and superstar center dude who both aren't close to peaking so they will be ok for some years. But yeah the hawks are on the rise, but taking over the east with Josh Smith, Woodson, and Spirit tight pockets? Naaaah dude

[MaceCase]

LOL nice, you made a few hopeful points. Don't know if you mean Dumars will be fired or he'll just leave. I doubt fired though. He's gotten the pistons to consecutive conference finals and won a ring beating the Lakers in really a 5-0 sweep with a dominant Shaq and a peaking kobe. He'll be fine. And you're comparing Boston 20yrs ago to the league now. No sirrrr, dude this is 2009 with a totally different NBA....Anyway yes, the young Hawks are on the rise. Ppl have been saying that after the 13 win season every year since. Listen, fact is the Hawks will pretty much be a tweener for some years. Keep organically growing/waiting for players like Josh Smith and Marvin's potential...The organization will never be the Spurs, but will never be the Knicks either. They'll make the playoffs, but I doubt will ever win a championship with Joe Johnson. So if you wanna play the age game then 2-3 years from now he'll be what, 29-30? Oh and Orlando has an all-star point and superstar center dude who both aren't close to peaking so they will be ok for some years. But yeah the hawks are on the rise, but taking over the east with Josh Smith, Woodson, and Spirit tight pockets? Naaaah dude

No given the Billups trade ruining the franchise, putting part the blame on a rookie coach and replacing him with errrrr a rookie coach and spending your capspace on a career 6th man and PF who's never averaged 30 minutes a game I'd say Dumars is on the bubble. Dumars was allowed to let some of his gaffes such as drafting Darko and Rodney White slide because he had a team that made it to 5 or something consecutive ECFs but then he went ahead and tore that down. If his new coach fails like Curry did then guess what the blame falls squarely on his shoulders considering that he both hired him and gave him the ingredients to cook with.

Boston 20 years ago? Do yo remember Boston in 06/07 or 05/06 last time they made a playoff before that they did it with a worse record than we did. Do you wonder where they got all those young prospects and draft picks to acquire Ray and KG? They did it by being a terrible team not some perennial contender so I still don't understand how they'd so easily "reup".

Orlando once again have their stud upfront and they have a developing Jameer but they still hamstrung their capspace by paying Rashard 20 mil over the next 3 years and now they added Carter's deal for the next two. You ever wonder why Hedo walked? Why they are debating keeping Gortat even though they have no one on their bench? Its because they can't afford them and those deal's don't get any smaller so they don't have much in the way of relief in the near future.

We have developing youth evident by our records and relative cap flexibility compared to those teams. Miami hasn't done anything, the Bulls lost their best scorer, Detroit is a clusterf*** and Philly is still deciding what personnel they'd gameplan with. Boston only got older and hasn't addressed their depth issue and are relying on their 33 year old best player to come back from knee surgery as if he's 28. Washington just added more mouths to feed from the same plate and New Jersey gave up the 09/10 season for the next offseason along with NY and Charlotte is more worried about cutting bills than winning. Toronto remains to be seen how they mesh with Bosh's decision looming over them.

The eastern conference is in flux and filled with uncertainty and for once we can say that the Hawks are actually in a stable situation.

Edited July 8, 2009 by CrawfulToCrawesome

[FrankWhite]

The Hawks are not going to snag marquee free agents with the ownership situation as is. The Sheeds and Shaqs and Artests out there want a shot at a(nother) title and we're not an elite team. Other guys will go for the comfort of playing for someone like Cuban in Dallas. The only way to get a big name is going to have to be through a trade, and with Amare and Bosh probably off the table, there aren't that many names on the block.

So having said that, the Hawks have done the best they could this offseason. Crawford is an upgrade over Flip, Teague is an upgrade over Acie and Bibby re-signed at a great value. Our backcourt is explosive on offense. Zaza resigned and we may bring in Andersen and/or another decent big. That's good. By all accounts, they've looked into trades, they've contacted FAs, the Childress situation is still in play and may net us a decent player. They're active. They're not sitting on their hands.

If you're going to complain about the Hawks' moves this offseason, I don't know what to tell you. They seem to be doing everything they can to get better. If that's enough for you, maybe you should switch to a title contender.

[laved11]

I'll look at the glass half full...

1. Woody - Bringing him back was a forgone conclusion. He's cheap. He's earned it. Yes, I believe that. Sund would be crucified for letting him go after what the Hawks have done the last two years. That being said, Woody is under the most pressure this coming year than he has had as a HC.

2. We may have the same cast as far as minutes, but to not factor in ability is wrong. Bringing in a 20 pt. a game scorer can help the team in many ways. Especially for our All-star. Crawford should ease JJ's minutes, as well as his scoring load. Jamal is an upgrade over Flip.

3. See #1

4. See #1

5. It's still early in the FA process. It appears Zaza isn't getting a whole lot of love from other teams, hopefully increasing our chances. Give it some time, and I bet Zaza will be back.

6. There's not a lot of "big" names out there. The ones, Shaq - Sheed - VC are veterans that are chasing rings. They're joining teams that were/are legit Championship contenders without them. We're not at that level to land those types of players, yet. But we're showing so far we still have a committment to build on the last two years.

7. David Andersen is a BIG. A huge need for this team. We have his rights, it's possible he may join the team. Of course were hopeful he will join the squad. It doesn't matter that he's European, he would fill a void that needs to be filled, plus adding depth.

Like stated earlier, Boston, Orlando, Cleveland are the cream of the crop in the East without adding the pieces they did. Washington was going to be a team to be reckoned with if healthy anyway, Mike Miller and Randy Foye don't instantly vault them into a top 4 team in the East. Miami and Toronto...."what if's" and "mights". Until they do, no need to lose sleep.

I'm happier holding serve, if that's the case, than taking a step back. We don't resign Bibby or bring Crawford over, I'd say we would be taking a step back. Not the case. Rick Sund should be commended for the job he has done thusfar dating back to last year. I'm very pleased with the moves he has made thusfar. Compared to our last GM, he's been the brightest spot in this francise in a long time.

I don't think Sund would be crusified for letting go of Woodson. It would let many know that they have high expectations. My question is with the 4th seed in teh playoffs and a second round exit... isn't that why the Atlanta Hawks blew up the 1999 team. They said they were tired of being mediocre and wanted to take steps to be a championship team. Now... the second round is not only an accomplishment... it is a goal. Simply comical.

Holla!

[buckeye242424]

I don't think Sund would be crusified for letting go of Woodson. It would let many know that they have high expectations. My question is with the 4th seed in teh playoffs and a second round exit... isn't that why the Atlanta Hawks blew up the 1999 team. They said they were tired of being mediocre and wanted to take steps to be a championship team. Now... the second round is not only an accomplishment... it is a goal. Simply comical.

Look at it from an outsider, someone not a fan of the Hawks. Improvement every year. More National TV exposure, albeit small, playoffs the last two years. The exciting series with Boston, the 47 wins last year, second round this year. It's easy for us to say Woody needs to go because we watch all 82 games year in and year out. For the common fan, they're finally seeing the Hawks being relevant again with Woody as coach. Then we dump him? Sund would definetely take some heat from the media. In fact, I think we would be laughed at. To the common fan, it wouldn't make any sense.

[dlpin]

No given the Billups trade ruining the franchise, putting part the blame on a rookie coach and replacing him with errrrr a rookie coach and spending your capspace on a career 6th man and PF who's never averaged 30 minutes a game I'd say Dumars is on the bubble. Dumars was allowed to let some of his gaffes such as drafting Darko and Rodney White slide because he had a team that made it to 5 or something consecutive ECFs but then he went ahead and tore that down. If his new coach fails like Curry did then guess what the blame falls squarely on his shoulders considering that he both hired him and gave him the ingredients to cook with.

Boston 20 years ago? Do yo remember Boston in 06/07 or 05/06 last time they made a playoff before that they did it with a worse record than we did. Do you wonder where they got all those young prospects and draft picks to acquire Ray and KG? They did it by being a terrible team not some perennial contender so I still don't understand how they'd so easily "reup".

Orlando once again have their stud upfront and they have a developing Jameer but they still hamstrung their capspace by paying Rashard 20 mil over the next 3 years and now they added Carter's deal for the next two. You ever wonder why Hedo walked? Why they are debating keeping Gortat even though they have no one on their bench? Its because they can't afford them and those deal's don't get any smaller so they don't have much in the way of relief in the near future.

We have developing youth evident by our records and relative cap flexibility compared to those teams. Miami hasn't done anything, the Bulls lost their best scorer, Detroit is a clusterf*** and Philly is still deciding what personnel they'd gameplan with. Boston only got older and hasn't addressed their depth issue and are relying on their 33 year old best player to come back from knee surgery as if he's 28. Washington just added more mouths to feed from the same plate and New Jersey gave up the 09/10 season for the next offseason along with NY and Charlotte is more worried about cutting bills than winning. Toronto remains to be seen how they mesh with Bosh's decision looming over them.

The eastern conference is in flux and filled with uncertainty and for once we can say that the Hawks are actually in a stable situation.

You are ignoring two simple things: cap space and the Joe Johnson free agency.

The Celtics' big three are old? Sure. But Ray Allen is only signed for one more year, Pierce for 2 (when he would be 33), and KG is the only one signed long term. Meanwhile 2 of the starting 5 are young. They can just as easily trade the big 3 as expiring contracts, or etc. All it takes is the ownership being willing to spend into the luxury tax and so many of the teams desperate to dump money and they can retool quickly.

Same for Vince Carter and Orlando.

Meanwhile, the Hawks ownership situation might be resolved in a way that the team wouldn't bring Joe Johnson back.

And Im not saying this to say that the celtics and magic will always be better than the hawks, or that the hawks have no future, or anything like that.

Im saying this because ownership is the single most important issue in a team being competitive in the long haul. You talk about the celtics sucking after bird. Can you guess what turned it around? It wasnt just the trade, but when Wyc Grousbeck bought the Celtics in 2002.

Team willing to spend to win are the teams that attract the top free agents and can pull the expensive trades that make the team competitive.

[Sothron]

If we bring Marvin back all we would have done is trade Crawford and Teague for Law and Flip. I think that's a playoff team but its not going to be good enough to get past the second round if the team stands still roster wise.

[tbhawksfan]

Hawks core players that are young and improving; Smoove, MW, Horf. Teague could have interesting potential. JJ is an "in his prime" all-star. Bibby just signed a friendly contract, Zaza just re-upped at what I expect to be a fair deal ($5.5).

They picked up Crawford in a steal. He can produce points at a JJ pace. No reason he can't be our second scorer.

Indications are Andersen, a 7'0" euro vet PF/C will come over for less than $3M.

That leaves the Hawks with $ to sign another decent FA and min contract roster filler.

Then, there's Chils. Keep him and he comes off the cap next season (JJ), S&T him and likely bring back a contributing player or a pick and expiring.

I see no reason that the Hawks can't make these moves and compete for top spot in the East.

[MaceCase]

You are ignoring two simple things: cap space and the Joe Johnson free agency.

The Celtics' big three are old? Sure. But Ray Allen is only signed for one more year, Pierce for 2 (when he would be 33), and KG is the only one signed long term. Meanwhile 2 of the starting 5 are young. They can just as easily trade the big 3 as expiring contracts, or etc. All it takes is the ownership being willing to spend into the luxury tax and so many of the teams desperate to dump money and they can retool quickly.

Same for Vince Carter and Orlando.

Meanwhile, the Hawks ownership situation might be resolved in a way that the team wouldn't bring Joe Johnson back.

And Im not saying this to say that the celtics and magic will always be better than the hawks, or that the hawks have no future, or anything like that.

Im saying this because ownership is the single most important issue in a team being competitive in the long haul. You talk about the celtics sucking after bird. Can you guess what turned it around? It wasnt just the trade, but when Wyc Grousbeck bought the Celtics in 2002.

Team willing to spend to win are the teams that attract the top free agents and can pull the expensive trades that make the team competitive.

I'm not ignoring JJ's free agency or capspace, even currently constructed with the assumption that Marvin comes back, if we lose JJ next year we still have Crawford and Teague on our bench to fill that hole. Boston loses Allen next year and who do they have to step right in? Their core only gets older and although they could get under the cap if Pierce opts out too, they still won't have much to work with as compared to us. Orlando is in a worse cap situation than either team and as evidence by last season where team's were reluctant to move or recieve large expirings (think Wally Z, Lafrentz) you can't just assume they could move a high paid vet for value. Ownership matters when it comes to how much a team is going to spend on a championship but even then they get handcuffed by the rules. You can spend all that money but if it doesn't equate to a ring you just mortgaged your future for no payoff. We have current and future flexibility and can only stand to get better, those other teams won't be on top forever.

There've been only three "dynasties" this decade in the Lakers, Spurs and Detroit yet we seem to be building up Cleveland, Boston and now Orlando as these perennial powerhouses when they were all middle of the pack or lackluster teams that happened to peak over the last couple of years, why should we be any different?

[LordOfNYork]

No given the Billups trade ruining the franchise, putting part the blame on a rookie coach and replacing him with errrrr a rookie coach and spending your capspace on a career 6th man and PF who's never averaged 30 minutes a game I'd say Dumars is on the bubble. Dumars was allowed to let some of his gaffes such as drafting Darko and Rodney White slide because he had a team that made it to 5 or something consecutive ECFs but then he went ahead and tore that down. If his new coach fails like Curry did then guess what the blame falls squarely on his shoulders considering that he both hired him and gave him the ingredients to cook with.

Boston 20 years ago? Do yo remember Boston in 06/07 or 05/06 last time they made a playoff before that they did it with a worse record than we did. Do you wonder where they got all those young prospects and draft picks to acquire Ray and KG? They did it by being a terrible team not some perennial contender so I still don't understand how they'd so easily "reup".

Orlando once again have their stud upfront and they have a developing Jameer but they still hamstrung their capspace by paying Rashard 20 mil over the next 3 years and now they added Carter's deal for the next two. You ever wonder why Hedo walked? Why they are debating keeping Gortat even though they have no one on their bench? Its because they can't afford them and those deal's don't get any smaller so they don't have much in the way of relief in the near future.

We have developing youth evident by our records and relative cap flexibility compared to those teams. Miami hasn't done anything, the Bulls lost their best scorer, Detroit is a clusterf*** and Philly is still deciding what personnel they'd gameplan with. Boston only got older and hasn't addressed their depth issue and are relying on their 33 year old best player to come back from knee surgery as if he's 28. Washington just added more mouths to feed from the same plate and New Jersey gave up the 09/10 season for the next offseason along with NY and Charlotte is more worried about cutting bills than winning. Toronto remains to be seen how they mesh with Bosh's decision looming over them.

The eastern conference is in flux and filled with uncertainty and for once we can say that the Hawks are actually in a stable situation.

Crawford=upgrade

Teague=great pick

Ok dude you know your Hawks. I guess the Hawks will be the dominant team in the East 3 yrs from now when the Celtics ultimately demise and just have Rondo to show for it...and every other team will have crashed their rosters, have a starting line-up of guys 36 and up, reached cap limits, and have successful GM's who simply dumb out and just are uncertain of what to do after tasting ECF's and finals. Yep the Hawks will have the last laugh and say see, this is what happens when you organically grow your rosters and wait for potential like Josh and Marvin to finally come around with a coach like mike woodson! The Atlanta Hawks will soon be the model every team follows. Good luck with that. Great ownership don't wait years for a 6'9, I have beef with my coach, threeball chucking, wow, there's another airball potential to develop. The Hawks don't have it man that's reality and they will be a tweener, a barely made it out of 1st round, can't win 2nd round 4th or 5th seed until certain things change. I'm still excited to be in ATL and go down to the arena to watch some playoff basketball in the Hawks and whoever they are playing. Can't wait for the season! And can't wait to have this debate with you 2 yrs from now...dude I believe you're gonna have so much bad taste in your mouth.

There've been only three "dynasties" this decade in the Lakers, Spurs and Detroit yet we seem to be building up Cleveland, Boston and now Orlando as these perennial powerhouses when they were all middle of the pack or lackluster teams that happened to peak over the last couple of years, why should we be any different?

Great point though, but I think any team in the East can surprise anyone exept the knicks

Edited July 8, 2009 by LordOfNYork

[BusBoyIsBack]

If we bring Marvin back all we would have done is trade Crawford and Teague for Law and Flip. I think that's a playoff team but its not going to be good enough to get past the second round if the team stands still roster wise.

How about some reasonable expectations?

Should a top 5 youngest team in the league seriously be expected to compete for a ring? Seriously teams that young just don't win championships.

2-3 years from now again when teams like Boston, San Antonio, and possibly Cleveland get old, that will be our window. Im still laughing at those who think re-upping with young talent is as easy in the NBA as it is in college basketball/football.

Why do you think there is such an arms race right now? Some teams are doing it for financial reasons, but others are doing it because they know their championship window isn't going to be open that much longer. You just don't snap your finger and replace Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett, and Rasheed Wallace. You don't just snap your finger and replace Tim Duncan, or even Shaq and Big Z.

This isn't football/basketball recruiting where you easily sign half a dozen more guys that are the best in the nation. The teams that get the best guys like that are picking in the lottery.

We have to be patient and how that this team that is oozing with talent can progress and again it will be perfect timing 2-3 years from now if our guys start to peak while the contending teams are rebuilding. This team has improved every year since they blew the team up, yet the pessimism does not seem to cease. That's ATlanta for you I guess

Edited July 8, 2009 by BusBoyIsBack

[dlpin]

I'm not ignoring JJ's free agency or capspace, even currently constructed with the assumption that Marvin comes back, if we lose JJ next year we still have Crawford and Teague on our bench to fill that hole. Boston loses Allen next year and who do they have to step right in? Their core only gets older and although they could get under the cap if Pierce opts out too, they still won't have much to work with as compared to us. Orlando is in a worse cap situation than either team and as evidence by last season where team's were reluctant to move or recieve large expirings (think Wally Z, Lafrentz) you can't just assume they could move a high paid vet for value. Ownership matters when it comes to how much a team is going to spend on a championship but even then they get handcuffed by the rules. You can spend all that money but if it doesn't equate to a ring you just mortgaged your future for no payoff. We have current and future flexibility and can only stand to get better, those other teams won't be on top forever.

There've been only three "dynasties" this decade in the Lakers, Spurs and Detroit yet we seem to be building up Cleveland, Boston and now Orlando as these perennial powerhouses when they were all middle of the pack or lackluster teams that happened to peak over the last couple of years, why should we be any different?

Im sorry, but are you really assuming that JJ's production could be easily replaced by a guy who has never played a playoff game in his career and the 19th pick in the draft?

As far as boston "losing" Allen, I think the least likely scenario is the one where he just walks away. Either he will resign at a discount, or he will be traded. As far as the Lafrentz and Wally Z scenarios, they were not moved by all accounts because of fear of chemistry issues, and other teams felt that their expiring contracts in a year with no reasonable free agents werent worth much. But for those two examples, you have several others of aging stars with expiring contracts being dealt for something of value. AI for Billups, etc. The fact remains that as long as the celtics have an ownership that is willing to spend money and a GM situation that can pick the right players to spend that money on, they should have plenty of ways of dealing with an aging core.

Again, Im not saying that Boston will be better. I am saying that ownership is a lot more important to how well a team does 2 or 3 years down the road than anything you can learn from players currently on the roster.

[dlpin]

How about some reasonable expectations?

Should a top 5 youngest team in the league seriously be expected to compete for a ring? Seriously teams that young just don't win championships.

2-3 years from now again when teams like Boston, San Antonio, and possibly Cleveland get old, that will be our window. Im still laughing at those who think re-upping with young talent is as easy in the NBA as it is in college basketball/football.

Why do you think there is such an arms race right now? Some teams are doing it for financial reasons, but others are doing it because they know their championship window isn't going to be open that much longer. You just don't snap your finger and replace Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett, and Rasheed Wallace. You don't just snap your finger and replace Tim Duncan, or even Shaq and Big Z.

This isn't football/basketball recruiting where you easily sign half a dozen more guys that are the best in the nation. The teams that get the best guys like that are picking in the lottery.

We have to be patient and how that this team that is oozing with talent can progress and again it will be perfect timing 2-3 years from now if our guys start to peak while the contending teams are rebuilding. This team has improved every year since they blew the team up, yet the pessimism does not seem to cease. That's ATlanta for you I guess

How will cleveland get old when 4 of their 5 starters are under 26?

How will Orlando get old, when their only starter over 30 is Vince Carter? So 3 years from now Carter will be old... But Nelson and Howard will be entering their primes.

By that token, Bibby and JJ will also be getting old. 3 years from now, even if they dont add anyone, the cavs will still have 4 starters under 30; the magic will still have 3 starters under 30; and boston will have 2 starters under 30. The hawks will have 3...

Edited July 8, 2009 by dlpin