Hawks moves vs. Everybody else's.

[AHF]

It's treading water.

Forget about salary. Forget about price. Just look at the team for a minute.

Which need did we fill?

What new skillset have we brought in that will help us be better?

I'm glad that we have created an atmosphere where guys want to stay.

I'm glad that Sund can negotiate very good deals with our players.

However, what's the difference between last years' team and this years?

Given their ages, I expect real improvement from all our young forwards. Crawford is a significant upgrade on Flip and should provide more rest to JJ. I am much more excited about Teague than about Law at this point. If we add David Andersen, then I think we suddenly have a deeper rotation of bigs rather than just Horford, Zaza and warm bodies.

So I agree that this is nothing monumental but I do think there are some real upgrades and an acquisition of Crawford and Andersen significantly improves depth, IMO. Given the age of this team, I think there is real upside to be found in player development.

Are we a championship roster? Probably not. However, I saw a lot more downside than upside for this offseason and we seem to be avoiding the stubbling blocks so far.

Personally, I think the ideas about David Lee, Gortat, etc. are fantasies. I like Sessions better than Bibby in an academic sense but for a Woodson coached team that needs a perimeter shooting PG, I fear that Sessions' talents would be wasted here. In short, I see us doing a very good job with the offseason so far.

There remains more work to be done, though.

[Crank]

Let's be honest. Have we really made a big splash or is Sund doing what he can to keep things "regular".

1. We got the same coach.
   
2. We got the same cast of players with Teague replacing Acie and Crawford replacing Flip. I only say it like this because of playing time, not ability.
   
3. We got the same mess up offense.
   
4. We got the same mediocre defense.
   
5. We haven't signed Zaza.
   
6. We haven't signed any big of note.
   
7. We're slobbering over a European C who plays like a European C.
   

WHILE...

1. Boston got Rasheed Wallace.
   
2. Orlando got Vince Carter.
   
3. Cleveland got Shaq.
   

I'm not saying that those moves are great moves, but those teams actually addressed needs.

1. Orlando got some experience. Plus Nelson is coming back.
   
2. Cleveland got a dominant Big.
   
3. Boston got some Depth.
   

Then there are some other concerning things:

Washington got Mike Miller and Foye.

Miami might get a big name.

Toronto is also looking for a few big names.

The question:

Is holding serve really keeping up or are we just trying to be a playoff team?

I dont know why the Crawford move is downplayed because I see us getting him as being just as big as any of those other moves listed above . We got a 20 ppg scorer in his prime for nothing and have been able to retain our team while doing it. A few years ago it wouldnt have been close but now at this time I have no doubts about saying I think Crawfords impact on our team will be as big or bigger than any off those other pickups on the squads you mentioned.

I will say however that I was all for the Amare for Smoove swap simply because you dont have the chance to get a SUPERSTAR under 30 everyday and that takes us just a nice story about a franchise turning things around into legit title contenders.

Does anyone recall the old Sac teams with Cwebb,Bibby,and Vlade . They had Gerald Wallace and Hedo deep down in that rotation and they basically decided to stay put instead of being aggressive and using that success to try and get even better players than the ones they had.They essentially have nothing to show 5 seasons later from a team that was legitimately 10 deep with several good young prospects .

One of the toughest jobs as a gm is to determine your teams window of opportunity and decide how you are going to work within it and to try and extend it. I get the feeling management has not yet determined that yet and are kinda basking in the playoff appearances while hoping one of the young players takes that step . I think this will be the last year for that and I wouldnt be suprised to see something get done at the deadline if a certain amount of growth isnt shown.

I think Crawford was a very nice move for us but the coup de gras wouldve been acquiring that superstar bigman like Amare . We will find out alot about the team and organization over the next 12 months .

[Sothron]

I don't believe that in two years JJ will be chopped liver. In two years, Mike Bibby will be 33, a far cry from 36. Anyhow, I don't think you have much faith in the youth of the team. I'm not sure what the definition of a "real star" player is, but I do think we have guys that have the potential to be darn good players in the NBA. I don't need to list all of our young guys...it's given. But there's definetely talent and loads of potential. Not to mention what we could acquire in the draft between now and three years from, inclusing this year's draft.

The NBA is a superstar league. You don't win rings in the NBA without superstar talent and the very, very few exceptions to that rule (the Pistons a few years ago, the very late 70's Sonics) only prove it. There's no superstar on the Hawks and there's not a young guy on the team now that I think will develop into one either. There's a reason why some teams never go past the second round or the conference finals.

[exodus]

The NBA is a superstar league. You don't win rings in the NBA without superstar talent and the very, very few exceptions to that rule (the Pistons a few years ago, the very late 70's Sonics) only prove it. There's no superstar on the Hawks and there's not a young guy on the team now that I think will develop into one either. There's a reason why some teams never go past the second round or the conference finals.

Yeah i don't see how a team with JJ as it's best player is going to contend for a title. If the Hawks are going to be legit title contenders at some point they will have to bring in another star.

[drzachary]

The NBA is a superstar league. You don't win rings in the NBA without superstar talent and the very, very few exceptions to that rule (the Pistons a few years ago, the very late 70's Sonics) only prove it. There's no superstar on the Hawks and there's not a young guy on the team now that I think will develop into one either. There's a reason why some teams never go past the second round or the conference finals.

So our best option is to blow up the team, tank, hope to win the lottery AND not blow the pick?

[Diesel]

I dont know why the Crawford move is downplayed because I see us getting him as being just as big as any of those other moves listed above . We got a 20 ppg scorer in his prime for nothing and have been able to retain our team while doing it. A few years ago it wouldnt have been close but now at this time I have no doubts about saying I think Crawfords impact on our team will be as big or bigger than any off those other pickups on the squads you mentioned.

The crawford pickup was a great pickup. Sund did a masterful job. However, if we use Crawford as another Flip, he will be another Flip. Crawford needs floor time. Until Marvin got hurt, Flip didn't see a lot of floor time. Crawford can be downplayed because of Woody.

[MaceCase]

Im sorry, but then are you saying that NOT taking a step back is in fact a step forward? Resigning two free agents (who no one else really showed an interest in), one of them at a deep discount, and trading for a veteran SG are not really signs that ownership is willing to do what it needs to build a championship. Other teams also had plenty of players to resign, and still were aggressive in free agency. Were the hawks ever in contention for a player like Gortat?

There is no "line" in the NBA. Saying "we can't compete now, but 3 years from now we will be better" really doesn't happen that way. Especially with the latest CBA, that restricts contracts a lot. This is not the 90s, where people would get 10 year deals and teams would be stuck forever with bad contracts. It is very easy to acquire talent and to get rid of bad contracts, especially with so many bad owners out there.

There we have it, you are simply downplaying our moves and feel that acquiring a 35 year old Sheed is a far greater move than acquiring a 29 year old Crawford. For them that's taking a huge step forward but for us it's holding the line. Please I'm also tired of hearing this also about players not getting certain interest from other teams determining their worth. There have been reports of interest but uhm are you aware there's a recession? Are you aware few teams have cap space to afford our players? Is Gortat really the definition of the big get this season? If we had him would you now say, yes this team is ready to take the next step, championships here we come! You just want to bask in all this negative aspects while reality flies in your face. No this is not the 90s but a 4 year 20 million dollar contract is still a 4 year 20 million dollar contract. The "championship" teams can't just dump large salary for quality like it's a drop of a hat, you ever wondered what happened to the Hornet's?

The Spurs have been able to reload in the past, LA has been able to reload it in the past, it remains to be seen if Detorit will be able to reload for the future. Stop lumping in these upstarts whose windows just opened themselves in with them. they just as easily could be next year's New Orleans. An up and coming team that pushed their salary to the limit only to end up with a middle of the pack team with many large unmovable contracts preventing them from retooling or even just seeing salary relief.

[Sothron]

So our best option is to blow up the team, tank, hope to win the lottery AND not blow the pick?

If you want the best way to win the Finals then yes, actually,you do need to find a way to get that superstar and its usually in the draft where you find them. I'm not suggesting we do that now though because the ownership finally has winners on their hands and I can see why they feel keeping the same ol', same ol' is going to get it done. I don't think it is going to hurt but realistically only one team ever wins a ring in a season and there's only ever four or five teams maximum in both conferences that have a legitimate shot to win it. The Hawks aren't even close to that and unless we do bring in another star player they will never be.

[ngc7]

If you want the best way to win the Finals then yes, actually,you do need to find a way to get that superstar and its usually in the draft where you find them. I'm not suggesting we do that now though because the ownership finally has winners on their hands and I can see why they feel keeping the same ol', same ol' is going to get it done. I don't think it is going to hurt but realistically only one team ever wins a ring in a season and there's only ever four or five teams maximum in both conferences that have a legitimate shot to win it. The Hawks aren't even close to that and unless we do bring in another star player they will never be.

i dont think we need another star.. smith and or horford or even williams could turn into a star. smith is very close!

Edited July 9, 2009 by ngc7

[thescout5]

i dont think we need another star.. smith and or horford or even williams could turn into a star. smith is very close!

Your exactly right Sothron, a team must have at least one superstar or top 10-15 player on it's squad to have a chance at a ring.Unless the Hawks can reel in one of the big free agents next year I don't see the current Hawks challenging for a title.

[LordOfNYork]

i dont think we need another star.. smith and or horford or even williams could turn into a star. smith is very close!

See that's what i'm talking about...The reaching too far. Dude, there will probably never be an NBA superstar with the last name Smith...Deron, is pretty close...Ah damn wrong Williams. That's the one the Hawks could have had.

Anyway, like the other guy said, the NBA is a star-studded league and w/o a superstar and possibly an all-star, teams really have no chance of winning a ring which is very difficult! The '04 Pistons were the exeption

[Diesel]

So our best option is to blow up the team, tank, hope to win the lottery AND not blow the pick?

No.

Our best option is to know how far we really are from being championship material.

We can fix that by changing some things.

1. Bring in an Offensive Coordinator. Somebody whom we can groom to be the next head coach. I'm thinking Avery Johnson. Hell, Johnson may be the HC.

2. Let Johnson pick the players he know he can use and work with. I believe somebody can get more out of Smoove and Horf. However, if he believes otherwise, then let's start thinking trades.

3. Make a decision on Joe. Will he finish his career with us or will he be a tradable piece in the summer?

4. Pinpoint a star. It doesn't have to be an established guy. Guys like Devin Harris, Al Jefferson, OJ Mayo, Rudy Gay may be available. We have to ask.

[HawkItus]

I think Sund put it best, "wait until we stagnate then make moves" With our additions and continuity we should be able to when 50 + games. Even if we finish 4th again if we can finish around 10 games ahead of number 5 and go 7 in the second round that is progress. Then we have the summer of 2010, some good players on good contracts and pay roll flexibility. That's how Miamia got Shaq. It's LA got Shaq. It's how Boston got Garnett. We just have to bide our time get in a good situation and be ready to strike.