Why is everyone overlooking Flip?

[AHF]

I think Sund is playing the waiting game on both Flip and Marvin.

If Flip can be had at a reasonable price like he was last summer I'm sure Sund will bring him back if the Hawks are far enough under the luxury tax after resigning Marvin and potentially using their MLE on a big.

I think that is right. If you are talking a minimum or LLE contract, you just give up on playing Teague this year and bring Flip back aboard because you know he is ready to play and can go bigger minutes if there is an injury.

[gsuteke]

Bingo! :thumbsupsmileyanim:

Anyone else realize how big of an outlier Flip's production was last year from his career numbers?

Also, unless JJ is playing huge minutes at SF you are taking guys who averaged roughly 35 mins, 38 mins, and 39 minutes last year at the guard spots and then adding Teague and then adding Flip? How does that work when there are 84 minutes to go around?

I don't see how we keep Flip and actually play him.

But the beauty of signing Flip (if he can be had for that) to a 2 million dollar contract is that now he's a couple of spots further down the bench and you're not only increased your depth, you've raised your overall talent level.

I think having Flip at 2 million or so as your 9th guy in the rotation is a steal. That and people get injured, it's part of the game.

Now if Flip gets a 3 year offer for 9 million you let him walk, simple as that.

I guess I just see Flip as having value to a playoff caliber team in a supporting role.

[JJFAN4LF]

I love Flip last season for us. He was the best 6th man in the NBA after the Allstar game. He carried our team for a lot of games when Joe didn't show up. As much as I appreciated that, I just think Crawford is the better version of Flip Murray. Only thing that Flip has over Crawford is defense, but all the rest of their aspects, Crawford beats Flip.

Bye Flip.

[Admin]

Other than the minutes the biggest reason I don't think we'll see Flip back is that we'd have to use part of our MLE to re-sign him unless he'd be willing to take the LLE, which I doubt he'd do. We have bigger needs (pun intended) with our MLE and I'd much rather spend that on 2 more bigs that can actually be productive than on Flip, even though I liked what he did for us last year.

[Swatguy]

We need Flip.

We need a Flip more than an 8 million dollar Marvin.

JJ needs to slide down to the 3 spot.

Marvin S&T with a Kamen/Frye/Chandler or such.

Sign Flip, Sign Wilcox. Move Joe to the 3 (Jamal starts at 2).

Flip is the neccessary mind-set off the bench and in the huddle/practice/locker room.

The attitude of Flip and Mo drove the team of softs.

Yes we need Flip and to move Joe to his next level.

Marvin for what is needed.

[Ruckus]

Use the money for a big. I'd rather pay Mario West slim to none if we need an energy player.

[JackB1]

why not resign Flip and trade JJ for a BIG?

[bumpyphish1]

Flip is a goner. Get over it.

[thefloydian]

This thread can't be serious.

[Johnnybravo4]

Screw Teague's development (for now) We are a top 4 team in the East. We need to be thinking conf championship from here on out and not worry about our pg of the future. Do you think LA gave a damn about Farmar's development?

[buckeye242424]

Screw Teague's development (for now) We are a top 4 team in the East. We need to be thinking conf championship from here on out and not worry about our pg of the future. Do you think LA gave a damn about Farmar's development?

I don't think the Hawks should be say "screw" it. I do agree that we should be continuing to build on the last two years. I think the organization is thinking the same by re-signing Bibby. If they thought Teague was ready to play 25-30 minutes a game, Biibby wouldn't be here. There's a way to get both. Teague should get 8-10 minutes a game. I think Woody should be consistent when he is being played as well. His role would be defined, he would know when he would be playing. Make the transition easier to the pro game as well as gaining some experience his first year.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Screw Teague's development (for now) We are a top 4 team in the East. We need to be thinking conf championship from here on out and not worry about our pg of the future. Do you think LA gave a damn about Farmar's development?

LOL JB . . they don't understand man. They act like Teague is going to be the next Devin Harris or something. If we bring back Flip, let that guy prove he can get minutes first, before trying to develop him.

Distribution of minutes, if Marvin and Flip are brought back.

PG: Bibby ( 30 ) - Flip ( 10 ) - Crawford ( 8 )

G: Johnson ( 22 ) - Crawford ( 16 ) - Flip ( 10 )

F: Marvin ( 26 ) - Johnson ( 14 ) - Evans - ( 8 )

PF: Smith ( 34 ) - Horford ( 8 ) - Marvin ( 6 )

C: Horford ( 28 ) - Zaza ( 20 )

Total minutes:

Johnson - 36

Horford - 36

Smith - 34

Marvin - 32

Bibby - 30

Crawford - 24

Zaza - 20

Flip - 20

Evans - 8

To get Teague on the floor, take 4 minutes away from Crawford and Flip at the point, and play Teague 8 minutes/gm to start with. Also consider taking Evans minutes away from him, in order to give Crawford and Flip their 8 minutes back.

This distribution is also assuming that we don't add another big to the roster.

Edited July 11, 2009 by northcyde

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I don't think the Hawks should be say "screw" it. I do agree that we should be continuing to build on the last two years. I think the organization is thinking the same by re-signing Bibby. If they thought Teague was ready to play 25-30 minutes a game, Biibby wouldn't be here. There's a way to get both. Teague should get 8-10 minutes a game. I think Woody should be consistent when he is being played as well. His role would be defined, he would know when he would be playing. Make the transition easier to the pro game as well as gaining some experience his first year.

You mean like he did with Royal Ivey a few years back, when he would start him at the beginning of the 1st and 3rd quarters? Ivey knew when he'd be in the game, and when he'd be out.

Woody was actually trying to do that with Acie too . . in between the 1st-2nd quarters . . and 3rd-4th quarters.

[TheDude]

the money spent on flip could be used towards the big that we will sign...we would normally get a big man worth x amount of dollars...without flip, we can get a big man worth x+flipsmoney...

[buckeye242424]

You mean like he did with Royal Ivey a few years back, when he would start him at the beginning of the 1st and 3rd quarters? Ivey knew when he'd be in the game, and when he'd be out.

Woody was actually trying to do that with Acie too . . in between the 1st-2nd quarters . . and 3rd-4th quarters.

Similar yes. Royel was playing with the cupboard bare at the PG position. I don't think the Hawks thought he was the PG of the future, unlike Teague. Teague is going to play, it's just a matter of how much, which his performance will decide. Being a rookie, he needs to get some experience, unless he just isn't capable. I know there needs to be flexibilty there....point being if Bibby or Crawford are playing well at the PG spot, Woody shouldn't just yank them because he needs to get the rook in....but if Teague has some idea when he will be inserted, I think that would be beneficial.

[Highpozt2]

the money spent on flip could be used towards the big that we will sign...we would normally get a big man worth x amount of dollars...without flip, we can get a big man worth x+flipsmoney...

As much as I like Flip the Hawks have 4 guards JJ, Crawford, Bibby and Teague we would have to carry 5 guards --- JS, Horford, Mo, Za Za and Marvin are here so that leaves a slot for another big. The money is the issue will Flip he would have to except less than the MLE, if not Flip will have to go and we would have to go with a big. I think this team needs a athletic 7 footer. Since we have Za Za we can get a young baller and let him develop --- free agency for Centers does not look to promising.

[buckeye242424]

As much as I like Flip the Hawks have 4 guards JJ, Crawford, Bibby and Teague we would have to carry 5 guards --- JS, Horford, Mo, Za Za and Marvin are here so that leaves a slot for another big. The money is the issue will Flip he would have to except less than the MLE, if not Flip will have to go and we would have to go with a big. I think this team needs a athletic 7 footer. Since we have Za Za we can get a young baller and let him develop --- free agency for Centers does not look to promising.

Marv's not here yet.

How many athletic 7 footers are out there? Who?

[BusBoyIsBack]

I agree whole-heartedly how important Flip was to us last year...but to put it simply, there's just not enough minutes to go around in the back court with the addition of Crawford, the re-signing of Bibby, and drafting a PG. In addition to JJ's huge minutes and Marv (if we re-sign him).

Well stated. Teague is an unknown commodity but that's just the type of risk we have to take. His growth will be stunted enough with two guys ahead of him. Adding Flip on top of that and he really would get Mario West minutes

[Crank]

Wow I think people are overlooking that as of right now there are no more minutes in the backcourt

There are 96 minutes to split betwen the pg/sg positions if split equally it would be

Bibby 32

Joe 32

Crawford 32

Once you factor in that now with the addition of Crawford we can slide Joe to the three at various times that cuts out minutes basically all the perimeter players minutes barring injures .

So basically

Al

J-smoove

Marvin

Joe

Bibby

Zaza

Crawford

and whatever big that we add will be the 8th guy

That means Evans,Teague ,Flip ?? these guys will be fighting for minutes that will come few and far between if everyone is healthy

In the nba the 4th guard gets spot minutes thats why Flip may not return because we wont be looking to give a pay raise to our 4th guard and that 4th guard wont be willing to stay put for the same money and less minutes .

Right now the only minutes available on the team are minutes at the backup PF spot.

[Final_quest]

Wow I think people are overlooking that as of right now there are no more minutes in the backcourt

There are 96 minutes to split betwen the pg/sg positions if split equally it would be

Bibby 32

Joe 32

Crawford 32

Once you factor in that now with the addition of Crawford we can slide Joe to the three at various times that cuts out minutes basically all the perimeter players minutes barring injures .

So basically

Al

J-smoove

Marvin

Joe

Bibby

Zaza

Crawford

and whatever big that we add will be the 8th guy

That means Evans,Teague ,Flip ?? these guys will be fighting for minutes that will come few and far between if everyone is healthy

In the nba the 4th guard gets spot minutes thats why Flip may not return because we wont be looking to give a pay raise to our 4th guard and that 4th guard wont be willing to stay put for the same money and less minutes .

Right now the only minutes available on the team are minutes at the backup PF spot.

I guess it just depends on how much Flip wants or commands on the market. Many players right now who are expecting raises aren't getting them. One injury or trade and the three people getting 32 minutes each get cut down to two in your example. If it's for the right price we should sign Flip, if not let him walk.

As far as Teague goes, I think everyone should simmer down a little. People are acting like without PT in his first year he will never amount to anything. I say we should plan our roster as such that he will never see the floor. In the event that he earns PT and can't be kept off the floor you make a trade or cut someone like Flip.