Marvin = Capable of more

exodus · July 30, 2009

This is Such a molehill.

You had to go to the game log to get Marvins scores on those dates and you saw the Cats game but deliberately left it out. Now lets try this again.

What did Marvin average in all the games Smith missed?

Edited July 30, 2009 by exodus

exodus · July 30, 2009

I am going to try my hand at Diesel math. Lets look at the games Marvin played without Smith (but throw out Marvin's two lowest scoring games). When we do this we see....

Marvin averaged 18 ppg when Smith was out.

txsting · July 30, 2009

Let's address...

First. Let's get the baseline and play over vs. Under.

Marvin's season average = 13.9 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 1.3 apg I will also include Game Score created to show performance in a single game (40 = outstanding; 10 = average)

November 9. Smoove out...
Marvin = 14, 7, 0... GameScore = 8.3 Not impressive.

November 11. Smoove out...
Marvin = 13, 4, 1 Gamescore = 10 Not impressive.

November 12. Smoove out...
Marvin = 14, 4, 1 Gamescore = 10. Not impressive.

Novemeber 14. Smoove out...
Marvin = 21, 4, 1. Gamescore = 13. Impressive in loss to the Nets.

Novemeber 15. Smoove out...
Marvin =14, 6, 0. Gamescore = 10. Not impressive against nets.

Novermber 18. Smoove out...
Marvin = 14, 4, 2. Gamescore = 8. Not impressive against Pacer. FG% = Mighty low 36%.

November 19 Smoove out....
Marvin = 21, 14, 4. Gamescore = 23. Great game. Looked really strong. However, nobody stopped Caron Butler either.

Novemeber 22. Smoove out
Marvin = 11, 7, 3. Gamescore = 10. Not impressive.

November 26. Smoove out
Marvin = 18, 5, 2. Gamescore = 17. Good game vs. Bucks.

November 28. Smoove out.
Marvin = 10, 7, 4. Gamescore = 11. Not impressive.

November 29. Smoove out
Marvin = 14, 4, 4. Gamescore = 11. About average.

So let's summarize here. With Smoove out. What exactly did Marvin do? He had 3 impressive games out of 12. Those were against the Bucks, the Wizards, and the Nets. Everything else falls along his average.

In fact.
His average over the period of Smoove's absence was:

14.9 ppg, 6 rpg, 3.6 apg.

Compared to his baseline of he increased his scoring by 1 point. He decreased his rebounding. He increase his assists by 2. Is that what you call "STEPPING UP".
It looks like remaining the same so far.

1) Firstly let me congratulate you. This might be the first post in history in which the original post was responded to 8 pages later.

2) Why are you just choosing Smoove's absences? My rationale for the game selection was to look at who we had on the team with higher scoring averages than Marvin. Then look to see what Marvin does when one or more are out. How does Marvin seize OPPORTUNITY? I also chose to throw in games when any of the group scored 5 or less. I wanted to get a decent sample size.

So again, on what basis do you ignore the rest of the data points? I think you could reasonably argue to throw out the whole "5 or less" business, on the grounds that the lead dogs were still playing, and everyone had their usual roles. In that case maybe Marvin didn't get any more shots than he usually does. But you can't throw out JJ and Bibby! They are the lead dogs and primary ballhandlers. If anything, their absences are much more telling because they are largely the ones who control the shot distribution.

Edited July 30, 2009 by txsting

Diesel · July 30, 2009

1) Firstly let me congratulate you. This might be the first post in history in which the original post was responded to 8 pages later.

Got to it when i could.

2) Why are you just choosing Smoove's absences? My rationale for the game selection was to look at who we had on the team with higher scoring averages than Marvin. Then look to see what Marvin does when one or more are out. How does Marvin seize OPPORTUNITY? I also chose to throw in games when any of the group scored 5 or less. I wanted to get a decent sample size.

I was going in the order that you gave... Would be happy to complete the list... However thus far... with almost half of the games accounted for, there's just about no difference in these numbers and his season's average. That's not stepping up.

I would relate that to if you told me there was a great restaurant that served the best meal you have ever had. So I go. When I get there. The appetizer is great but the entree sucks and the dessert is average. Why mention the meal was great if it was just the apetizer that is great. That's what it feels like you have done. Also, there's a few games that you haven't addressed yet. A couple of those late games really don't make sense and shouldn't be on the list. One where All 5 starters and Flip were in double figures... why is that on the list? One where it was the end of the season and we had clinched a playoff birth and none of our starters played over 20 minutes... why was that on the list?

So again, on what basis do you ignore the rest of the data points? I think you could reasonably argue to throw out the whole "5 or less" business, on the grounds that the lead dogs were still playing, and everyone had their usual roles. In that case maybe Marvin didn't get any more shots than he usually does. But you can't throw out JJ and Bibby! They are the lead dogs and primary ballhandlers. If anything, their absences are much more telling because they are largely the ones who control the shot distribution.

I ignored the data points because frankly, I didn't have time to get to them. Still, what difference would it have made? Just to prove my point, i will finish what I started, however, there will be no conversation of the findings. There will only be more of the same excuse making we have seen. The proof to that is that neither you or the molehill master has yet to address the fact that those first games I have covered hasn't shown any real difference in Marvin's average. There's no stepping up in those games. Do you really want us to glare at the appetizer and praise the meal when the entree sucks and the dessert is average and there's too much inedible stuff on one plate??

exodus · July 30, 2009

I ignored the data points because frankly, I didn't have time to get to them.

So you didn't have time to add in the additional 2 games that Marvin missed? You have obviously had time to start numerous Marvin hate threads and spam this thread with your nonsense.

Still, what difference would it have made

Let me repeat the question and see how long you can continue to dodge it.

What did Marvin average in all the games Smith missed?

Diesel · July 30, 2009

Part 2.

Baseline = 13.9 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 1.2 apg.

Dec. 10. - Josh and Bibby playing badly.

Marvin = 4 points, 4 rebs, 0 assists Gamescore = 1.4. - very non-impressive.

Jan 25 = Al Out.

Marvin = 17 points, 6 rebs, 0 assist. Gamescore = 13 - just slightly above average.. but it's the Suns. even solo had 12 points.

Jan 26 = Al Out.

Marvin = 17 points, 8 rebs, 1 assist. Gamscore = 14. - Just slightly above average.

Jan 28. Al out.

Marvin = 28 points, 7 rebs, 1 assist. Gamescore = 26. -when has Marvin not done well against the Knicks.

----- I noticed that Al was out on the 30 and the 31 of Jan... Dates not covered by Txting -------------------------------------

Feb 4 = Al out.

23 points, 10 rebs, 2 assist. Gamescore = 19.5. = It's good to play Minny.

---------- I noticed that Bibby had a bad game on Feb 17, but since Marvin had a bad game too, it did not make Txtings list.---------------------------------

-----------I noticed that Horf had a really bad game on Feb 20, but again, it didn't make Marvin look any better so... it didn't make Txting list. - ---------

Feb 23 - Bibby had a bad game.

Marvin = 7points, 6 rebs, 0 assists Game score = 1.5.

Feb 25 = Josh Smith out.

Marvin = 31 points, 7 rebs, 0 assists. Gamescore = 27. Impressive game.

Feb 27 =

Marvin = 13 points, 3 reb, 2 assists. Gamescore = 4.2. Unimpressive game.

We have covered my feelings on the other two games. Again, I question the purpose for Texting putting them on the list. Not to mention the games that TXting left off the list? Seems a little self serving don't you think?

Average for the second part =

15.4 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 0.8 apg.

So in the second half, Marvin picks up his scoring by 1.5 ppg, picks up his rebounds by 0.1 ppg, and drops his assists by .4 apg. Is this "STEPPING UP"??

It's time to kick over another molehill...

Admin · July 30, 2009

What the hell is "Gamescore"? Have I missed something in this (or the other threads on this subject) or something?

txsting · July 30, 2009

Part 2.

Baseline = 13.9 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 1.2 apg.

Dec. 10. - Josh and Bibby playing badly.

Marvin = 4 points, 4 rebs, 0 assists Gamescore = 1.4. - very non-impressive.

Jan 25 = Al Out.

Marvin = 17 points, 6 rebs, 0 assist. Gamescore = 13 - just slightly above average.. but it's the Suns. even solo had 12 points.

Jan 26 = Al Out.

Marvin = 17 points, 8 rebs, 1 assist. Gamscore = 14. - Just slightly above average.

Jan 28. Al out.

Marvin = 28 points, 7 rebs, 1 assist. Gamescore = 26. -when has Marvin not done well against the Knicks.

----- I noticed that Al was out on the 30 and the 31 of Jan... Dates not covered by Txting -------------------------------------

Feb 4 = Al out.

23 points, 10 rebs, 2 assist. Gamescore = 19.5. = It's good to play Minny.

---------- I noticed that Bibby had a bad game on Feb 17, but since Marvin had a bad game too, it did not make Txtings list.---------------------------------

-----------I noticed that Horf had a really bad game on Feb 20, but again, it didn't make Marvin look any better so... it didn't make Txting list. - ---------

Feb 23 - Bibby had a bad game.

Marvin = 7points, 6 rebs, 0 assists Game score = 1.5.

Feb 25 = Josh Smith out.

Marvin = 31 points, 7 rebs, 0 assists. Gamescore = 27. Impressive game.

Feb 27 =
Marvin = 13 points, 3 reb, 2 assists. Gamescore = 4.2. Unimpressive game.

We have covered my feelings on the other two games. Again, I question the purpose for Texting putting them on the list. Not to mention the games that TXting left off the list? Seems a little self serving don't you think?

Average for the second part =

15.4 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 0.8 apg.

So in the second half, Marvin picks up his scoring by 1.5 ppg, picks up his rebounds by 0.1 ppg, and drops his assists by .4 apg. Is this "STEPPING UP"??

It's time to kick over another molehill...

It's plainly obvious to anyone what my game choice rationale was, because I spelled it out in plain English. I said I was looking at players who have a higher scoring average than Marvin. Horford is not one of those. The averages I show over the games I chose are correct.

exodus · July 30, 2009

Part 2.

Baseline = 13.9 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 1.2 apg.

Dec. 10. - Josh and Bibby playing badly.

Marvin = 4 points, 4 rebs, 0 assists Gamescore = 1.4. - very non-impressive.

Jan 25 = Al Out.

Marvin = 17 points, 6 rebs, 0 assist. Gamescore = 13 - just slightly above average.. but it's the Suns. even solo had 12 points.

Jan 26 = Al Out.

Marvin = 17 points, 8 rebs, 1 assist. Gamscore = 14. - Just slightly above average.

Jan 28. Al out.

Marvin = 28 points, 7 rebs, 1 assist. Gamescore = 26. -when has Marvin not done well against the Knicks.

----- I noticed that Al was out on the 30 and the 31 of Jan... Dates not covered by Txting -------------------------------------

Feb 4 = Al out.

23 points, 10 rebs, 2 assist. Gamescore = 19.5. = It's good to play Minny.

---------- I noticed that Bibby had a bad game on Feb 17, but since Marvin had a bad game too, it did not make Txtings list.---------------------------------

-----------I noticed that Horf had a really bad game on Feb 20, but again, it didn't make Marvin look any better so... it didn't make Txting list. - ---------

Feb 23 - Bibby had a bad game.

Marvin = 7points, 6 rebs, 0 assists Game score = 1.5.

Feb 25 = Josh Smith out.

Marvin = 31 points, 7 rebs, 0 assists. Gamescore = 27. Impressive game.

Feb 27 =
Marvin = 13 points, 3 reb, 2 assists. Gamescore = 4.2. Unimpressive game.

We have covered my feelings on the other two games. Again, I question the purpose for Texting putting them on the list. Not to mention the games that TXting left off the list? Seems a little self serving don't you think?

Average for the second part =

15.4 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 0.8 apg.

So in the second half, Marvin picks up his scoring by 1.5 ppg, picks up his rebounds by 0.1 ppg, and drops his assists by .4 apg. Is this "STEPPING UP"??

It's time to kick over another molehill...

LOL @ mentioning Al being out, as if he is a primary scorer. Why not mention the games Solo was out?

Let me repeat the question and see how long you can continue to dodge it.

What did Marvin average in all the games Smith missed?

Edited July 30, 2009 by exodus

Diesel · July 30, 2009

November 9. Smoove out...

Marvin = 14, 7, 0... GameScore = 8.3 Not impressive.

November 11. Smoove out...

Marvin = 13, 4, 1 Gamescore = 10 Not impressive.

November 12. Smoove out...

Marvin = 14, 4, 1 Gamescore = 10. Not impressive.

Novemeber 14. Smoove out...

Marvin = 21, 4, 1. Gamescore = 13. Impressive in loss to the Nets.

Novemeber 15. Smoove out...

Marvin =14, 6, 0. Gamescore = 10. Not impressive against nets.

Novermber 18. Smoove out...

Marvin = 14, 4, 2. Gamescore = 8. Not impressive against Pacer. FG% = Mighty low 36%.

November 19 Smoove out....

Marvin = 21, 14, 4. Gamescore = 23. Great game. Looked really strong. However, nobody stopped Caron Butler either.

November 21 Smoove out...

Marvin = 22 points, 10 rebs, 0 assist.

Novemeber 22. Smoove out

Marvin = 11, 7, 3. Gamescore = 10. Not impressive.

November 26. Smoove out

Marvin = 18, 5, 2. Gamescore = 17. Good game vs. Bucks.

November 28. Smoove out.

Marvin = 10, 7, 4. Gamescore = 11. Not impressive.

November 29. Smoove out

Marvin = 14, 4, 4. Gamescore = 11. About average.

Feb 25 = Josh Smith out.

Marvin = 31 points, 7 rebs, 0 assists. Gamescore = 27. Impressive game.

Grand total Average =

16.7 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.7 apg.

Difference = + 2.8 ppg, +0.1 rpg, + 0.4 apg.

Wow, that's great. We lose a 15.7 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 2.4 apg guy And Marvin steps up his game and gives us 2.8 ppg, 0.1 rpg, and 0.4 apg more..

Great Molehill you got there EX...

exodus · July 30, 2009

November 9. Smoove out...
Marvin = 14, 7, 0... GameScore = 8.3 Not impressive.

November 11. Smoove out...
Marvin = 13, 4, 1 Gamescore = 10 Not impressive.

November 12. Smoove out...
Marvin = 14, 4, 1 Gamescore = 10. Not impressive.

Novemeber 14. Smoove out...
Marvin = 21, 4, 1. Gamescore = 13. Impressive in loss to the Nets.

Novemeber 15. Smoove out...
Marvin =14, 6, 0. Gamescore = 10. Not impressive against nets.

Novermber 18. Smoove out...
Marvin = 14, 4, 2. Gamescore = 8. Not impressive against Pacer. FG% = Mighty low 36%.

November 19 Smoove out....
Marvin = 21, 14, 4. Gamescore = 23. Great game. Looked really strong. However, nobody stopped Caron Butler either.

November 21 Smoove out...
Marvin = 22 points, 10 rebs, 0 assist.

Novemeber 22. Smoove out
Marvin = 11, 7, 3. Gamescore = 10. Not impressive.

November 26. Smoove out
Marvin = 18, 5, 2. Gamescore = 17. Good game vs. Bucks.

November 28. Smoove out.
Marvin = 10, 7, 4. Gamescore = 11. Not impressive.

November 29. Smoove out
Marvin = 14, 4, 4. Gamescore = 11. About average.

Feb 25 = Josh Smith out.
Marvin = 31 points, 7 rebs, 0 assists. Gamescore = 27. Impressive game.

Grand total Average =

16.7 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.7 apg.

Difference = + 2.8 ppg, +0.1 rpg, + 0.4 apg.

Wow, that's great. We lose a 15.7 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 2.4 apg guy And Marvin steps up his game and gives us 2.8 ppg, 0.1 rpg, and 0.4 apg more..

Great Molehill you got there EX...

What was Dengs average as the 2/3rd option for the Bulls? Oh that's right you don't want to talk about him any more.

BTW since you didn't read the thread that difference wouldn't be 2.8 ppg it would be 4 ppg. In the games where Bibby/Smith/JJ were all there and scoring over 5 ppg Marvin's average was below 13. So he did in fact step up when one of the top 3 options was out or ineffective. That was the whole point of the thread.

Diesel · July 31, 2009

What was Dengs average as the 2/3rd option for the Bulls? Oh that's right you don't want to talk about him any more.

BTW since you didn't read the thread that difference wouldn't be 2.8 ppg it would be 4 ppg. In the games where Bibby/Smith/JJ were all there and scoring over 5 ppg Marvin's average was below 13. So he did in fact step up when one of the top 3 options was out or ineffective. That was the whole point of the thread.

:magnifier:

There's a saying that goes around like a person like you. When you finally get what you've been asking for, you wouldn't know what the hell to do with it!! You tantrum like a child through this thread and when you get what you've been asking for, there's no discussion about it. You move on to Deng? You're acting just like a woman... Are you a woman? All the b--ching and moaning I just witness and when you get what you what nothing? Either a woman or a child. I was looking forward to some great statistical interpretation of Marvin's meager numbers and all I got was a bunch of jibberish that made no sense and a Deng request.

Like I thought. Another molehill. From now on, I will address you as that... Molehill. Others will catch on.

exodus · July 31, 2009

:magnifier:

There's a saying that goes around like a person like you. When you finally get what you've been asking for, you wouldn't know what the hell to do with it!! You tantrum like a child through this thread and when you get what you've been asking for, there's no discussion about it. You move on to Deng? You're acting just like a woman... Are you a woman? All the b--ching and moaning I just witness and when you get what you what nothing? Either a woman or a child. I was looking forward to some great statistical interpretation of Marvin's meager numbers and all I got was a bunch of jibberish that made no sense and a Deng request.

Like I thought. Another molehill. From now on, I will address you as that... Molehill. Others will catch on.

Marvin averaged 16.7 ppg with Smith out. When he was asked to score more he did. Under normal circumstances this past season he was the 4th option on offense. But at the times when he was asked to do more he did just that. he is the first since Steve Smith to get to the line 20 times a game. Hard to get to the line that much if you aren't aggressive.

Now lets look at this quote.

So let's summarize here. With Smoove out. What exactly did Marvin do? He had 5 impressive games out of 13. Those were against the Bucks, the Wizards, Denver, Cats ,and the Nets.

corrected

You are the one who has been bringing up Deng for comparison. You even listed him in this thread as an accomplished 3 pt shooter. Deng averaged 14.1 ppg this year and made only 8 three pointers on the season, shooting 45% overall from the field . Dengs TS% of 51.1 was far below Marvin's 56.9%. Do you really want me to pull the posts where you mentioned Deng?

Ray Allen = 41% from 3 pt
Szerbiac = 41% from 3 pt
Luol Deng = 40% from 3 pt.
Peja = 38% from 3 pt.
Battier = 38% from 3 pt.
Jamison = 35% from 3pt (112 made)
Marvin = 35% from 3 pt (55 made).

Here is why these guys get assisted baskets. If you fail to get the connection, the better you shoot, the better you are out on the perimeter. Unfortunately, Marvin shot 35% from 3 and for his career he's a 30% shooter from three with only 263 3 pters to his credit. Therefore, it is a JOKE to classify Marvin with these guys who can really shoot from outside.

Edited July 31, 2009 by exodus

Diesel · July 31, 2009

Marvin averaged 16.7 ppg with Smith out. When he was asked to score more he did. Under normal circumstances this past season he was the 4th option on offense. But at the times when he was asked to do more he did just that. he is the first since Steve Smith to get to the line 20 times a game. Hard to get to the line that much if you aren't aggressive.

Woody: Marvin, Smoove is out for the night... I need you to score to make up the difference.

Marvin: OK.

.....end of game...

Woody: Wow, Marvin, that 2.8 points really made a difference. Unfortunately, we still lost.

Molehill, When 12.3 field goal attempts leave the game... Wouldn't you expect Marvin to get more opportunities to shoot?

Molehill, When 12.3 field goal attempts leave the game.... Wouldn't you expect that not only would Marvin get more opportunities but he would also be able to score more points?

But Molehill, 12.3 field goal attempts leave the game, Marvin get more opportunities to score and all he can do is 2.8 points per game better?

And Molehill, it's like I said earlier... That being on the strength of about 7 games out of the 24 Txting gave... actually one TXTING didn't.

Molehill.. do you remember the teams Let me help you with this...

Denver, Milwaukee, New York, Charlotte, the Wizards, the Nets, & Minnesota.

So these are the 7 teams that Marvin stepped out of his average against.

Hmm? very interesting. Especially when you consider that only 1 of the 7 teams made it to the playoffs. And the funny thing about that Denver game is that they were in a slump when we came to town and we helped them break their losing streak...

Molehill, It's good to know that Marvin can step up against weakly competitive teams.

exodus · July 31, 2009

Woody: Marvin, Smoove is out for the night... I need you to score to make up the difference.

Marvin: OK.

.....end of game...

Woody: Wow, Marvin, that 2.8 points really made a difference. Unfortunately, we still lost.

Molehill, When 12.3 field goal attempts leave the game... Wouldn't you expect Marvin to get more opportunities to shoot?

Molehill, When 12.3 field goal attempts leave the game.... Wouldn't you expect that not only would Marvin get more opportunities but he would also be able to score more points?

But Molehill, 12.3 field goal attempts leave the game, Marvin get more opportunities to score and all he can do is 2.8 points per game better?

So in other words it was only natural for the scoring of everyone else to go up significantly with Smith out, right?

The why did Bibby's go up only 1.6 ppg?

Why did JJ's go up only .8 ppg?

Why did Horfords go up only .75 ppg?

Why is it that Marvin had the biggest scoring increase by far?

MaceCase · July 31, 2009

What the hell is "Gamescore"? Have I missed something in this (or the other threads on this subject) or something?

That one caught me off guard too. Doesn't sound like one of those "real world" stats that I always hear about.

MaceCase · July 31, 2009

So in other words it was only natural for the scoring of everyone else to go up significantly with Smith out, right?

The why did Bibby's go up only 1.6 ppg?
Why did JJ's go up only .8 ppg?
Why did Horfords go up only .75 ppg?

Why is it that Marvin had the biggest scoring increase by far?

Honestly. I never once bothered to think what everyone else did during that period but if that stat is dead on then that's some damning evidence. It gives us a comparison of how the whole team responded and if Marvin stepped up more than they did......well let's just say it's going to be hard to dance around that.

exodus · July 31, 2009

Honestly. I never once bothered to think what everyone else did during that period but if that stat is dead on then that's some damning evidence. It gives us a comparison of how the whole team responded and if Marvin stepped up more than they did......well let's just say it's going to be hard to dance around that.

Don't ever underestimate Fred's..... ooops i mean Diesel's, ability to dance.

Diesel · July 31, 2009

So in other words it was only natural for the scoring of everyone else to go up significantly with Smith out, right?

The why did Bibby's go up only 1.6 ppg?
Why did JJ's go up only .8 ppg?
Why did Horfords go up only .75 ppg?

Why is it that Marvin had the biggest scoring increase by far?

Since you're trying to change the subject....

How much did Zaza and Flip's go up?

exodus · July 31, 2009

Since you're trying to change the subject....

How much did Zaza and Flip's go up?

Zaza and Flip aren't starters. If a starter is out hurt it is only natural for bench players to get more minutes.

The subject of the thread is Marvin stepping up when the top 3 scorers were out or ineffective. I figured i should remind you since you seem to forget so often. Marvin stepped up his scoring far more than the other starters when Smith was out.

Sign In

Current Donation Goals

Marvin = Capable of more

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

Diesel

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

Recently Browsing 0 members

Announcements

Upcoming Events

Topics