Marvin = Capable of more

[Peoriabird]

I'm sure the Lakers fans and the team would like Bynum to score more in the 4th quarter. Do you really think any coach, even Phil Jackson, would only want his star player scoring in the 4th? There are 12 minutes in the 4th quarter and that's more than enough time for Marvin to get 2-3 more FGA without taking anything away from Joe.

Maybe if there was more ball movement and hopefully this occurs this year

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I'm sure the Lakers fans and the team would like Bynum to score more in the 4th quarter. Do you really think any coach, even Phil Jackson, would only want his star player scoring in the 4th? There are 12 minutes in the 4th quarter and that's more than enough time for Marvin to get 2-3 more FGA without taking anything away from Joe.

With Crawford on the team, he may get even less FGAs in the 4th.

Marvin isn't a primary ball handler, so it's only so many ways he can get touches, nor less additional shots:

- Woody calls a play for him ( yeah right )

- He gets an offensive rebound

- Someone passes to him when open

- He gets a steal and goes coast to coast ( ala Smith )

Marvin might get 3 shots in the 4th qtr tops. 4 if the guards are really being pressured on the ball.

[gsuteke]

Actually Marvin is capable of more......

On the Grizzlies -

DUH

The Hawks are fielding a team that is capable of reaching the EC Finals. I understand some of you have a problem grasping that. I'm not concerned with Marvin Williams the 3rd or 4th scorer on a Good team as much as some of you want to see him dominate a bad team.

[jy23]

I'm sure the Lakers fans and the team would like Bynum to score more in the 4th quarter. Do you really think any coach, even Phil Jackson, would only want his star player scoring in the 4th? There are 12 minutes in the 4th quarter and that's more than enough time for Marvin to get 2-3 more FGA without taking anything away from Joe.

Not the way this offense runs!!!!!!! Marvin should be more aggressive but you can't really blame him for being consistent, like someone said earlier he doesn't disappear but he doesn't just jump off the screen either. This is Joe's team, he's going to dominate the 4th LIKE HE SHOULD!!!!

[Diesel]

This is Joe's team! We don't expect Andrew Bynum to score more than Kobe in the 4th quarter do we? Haven't said that, I do expect some improvement now that Flip is gone

This is Joe's team but it's not like Joe gets into the 4th quarter and says... Alright boys, yall clear the court... I got this. Marvin's % assisted level is so high because he goes and finds his spot and waits to be spoonfeed points all game long. You can call that consistent. I call that lazy. Marvin is like a welfare recipient on the team. He can do more than he's doing but he's content just to go to his spot and wait on somebody to spoonfeed him points. He doesn't have the mentality to take over when he sees Joe tired. Smoove gets a lot of criticism because he takes bad shots (although he shoots 51% in the 4th). However, the one thing I can credit Smoove with is that his mentality is that he wants to make a difference (even if he doesn't have the skills to). Marvin has the skills to be much better but his mentality is to just be passive and take whatever comes... That's really pathetic when you think about it.

[Diesel]

With Crawford on the team, he may get even less FGAs in the 4th.

Marvin isn't a primary ball handler, so it's only so many ways he can get touches, nor less additional shots:

- Woody calls a play for him ( yeah right )

- He gets an offensive rebound

- Someone passes to him when open

- He gets a steal and goes coast to coast ( ala Smith )

Marvin might get 3 shots in the 4th qtr tops. 4 if the guards are really being pressured on the ball.

This is not a point of blame for the others. Stop making that excuse. Smoove plays PF and he gets more opportunities to score than Marvin. The reason is because Smoove takes the opportunity. When was the last time you saw Marvin make a move with a man on him? That's because Marvin will continue to pass the ball around the horn until he's wide open. Sorry.. but that's not the other guys fault.

[Diesel]

POP QUIZ HAWKSQUAWK...

Here's the question.

IF we went out and traded Marvin for either Paul Pierce or Caron Butler and changed nothing else about our team...

1. Do you think that they would be the 4th scoring option on this team?

2. Do you think that they would only score 3.3 points in the 4th?

Just for grins:

Butler : 5.8 points in 4th. 28% assisted.

Pierce: 5.4 points in 4th. 31% assisted.

Marvin: 3.3 points in 4th. 60% assisted.

[Colin]

POP QUIZ HAWKSQUAWK...

Here's the question.

IF we went out and traded Marvin for either Paul Pierce or Caron Butler and changed nothing else about our team...

1. Do you think that they would be the 4th scoring option on this team?

2. Do you think that they would only score 3.3 points in the 4th?

Just for grins:

Butler : 5.8 points in 4th. 28% assisted.

Pierce: 5.4 points in 4th. 31% assisted.

Marvin: 3.3 points in 4th. 60% assisted.

Wait, I don't understand. Why are you comparing Marvin's numbers (who was the 4th offensive option on our team, especially in the 4th when Flip saw a lot of clutch time), to players who were the first or second options on their respective teams?

Why didn't you just pick Lebron? I don't post here often, but I do read a lot, and always saw everyone calling you out for being unfair towards Marvin, and now I see it. Your point is invalid.

[Colin]

This is Joe's team but it's not like Joe gets into the 4th quarter and says... Alright boys, yall clear the court... I got this. Marvin's % assisted level is so high because he goes and finds his spot and waits to be spoonfeed points all game long. You can call that consistent. I call that lazy. Marvin is like a welfare recipient on the team. He can do more than he's doing but he's content just to go to his spot and wait on somebody to spoonfeed him points. He doesn't have the mentality to take over when he sees Joe tired. Smoove gets a lot of criticism because he takes bad shots (although he shoots 51% in the 4th). However, the one thing I can credit Smoove with is that his mentality is that he wants to make a difference (even if he doesn't have the skills to). Marvin has the skills to be much better but his mentality is to just be passive and take whatever comes... That's really pathetic when you think about it.

With a player like Smoove on the team, who takes the game into his own hands and makes poor shots on occasion, that damages the offense.

So a player like Marvin comes along and offsets Smoove, and it will help the offense.

[exodus]

This is not a point of blame for the others. Stop making that excuse. Smoove plays PF and he gets more opportunities to score than Marvin. The reason is because Smoove takes the opportunity. When was the last time you saw Marvin make a move with a man on him? That's because Marvin will continue to pass the ball around the horn until he's wide open. Sorry.. but that's not the other guys fault.

Smith gets more opportunities to score because the other team leaves him wide open on the perimeter all game daring him to shoot.

Marvin drives on his man all the time which is why he gets to the line more often per shot attempt than anyone on the team.

Marvin's % assisted level is so high because he goes and finds his spot and waits to be spoonfeed points all game long.

Smith is obviously guilty of the same thing then since 65% of his field goals are assisted, only 3% less than Marvin.

[MaceCase]

This is not a point of blame for the others. Stop making that excuse. Smoove plays PF and he gets more opportunities to score than Marvin. The reason is because Smoove takes the opportunity. When was the last time you saw Marvin make a move with a man on him? That's because Marvin will continue to pass the ball around the horn until he's wide open. Sorry.. but that's not the other guys fault.

It amazes me at times.......I don't see how when you continue to get stomped on your argument you bring up a past argument where you got stomped on aswell, hows that working for you? So Marvin is spoon fed beacsue of the 3% more shots he's assisted on than Josh......really? If Josh could actually hit a jumpshot how high do you think that number would be for him? I always love how you like to say Marvin improving his 3 point shot is not a big deal beacause he's always been a jumpshooter then spit out on the next line he's spoon fed his offense......Uhm hello? He's a shooter all shooters have high assisted shot rates, why?

Beacuse the term is shooter not ball handler

Do the research my man, it's one thing to be clowned its a whole other thing to be clowning yourselff. Marvin never makes a move on a man....laughable. His offense either ends up with him taking a high percentage shot or driving to the basket and getting fouled unless you think most NBA defenders have the bball IQ of Solo and always foul him on a jumpshot. But please continue fishing for points and deflecting off the argument it's entertaining reading this thread.

[Peoriabird]

Marvin's % assisted level is so high because he goes and finds his spot and waits to be spoonfeed points all game long.

Please tell me again what is wrong with good ball movement and running plays to set up teammates? If I were coaching a team I would want over 90% of my field goals assited but for some reason you have a problem with team basketball! :blink:

[NineOhTheRino]

Please tell me again what is wrong with good ball movement and running plays to set up teammates? If I were coaching a team I would want over 90% of my field goals assited but for some reason you have a problem with team basketball! :blink:

Now I'm confused. So are you saying that Woodson's "offense" is built on ball movement and team play? :blink:

Edited July 28, 2009 by NineOhTheRino

[AHF]

Now I'm confused. So are you saying that Woodson's "offense" is built on ball movement and team play? :blink:

It isn't but Marvin's game largely is. That is why I don't see Woodson's offense as a good fit for Marvin's game. It would greatly benefit both Horford and Marvin in particular to play in a more structured offense, IMO.

[jy23]

Y do we keep bringing up this assist % crap? We all know that the ball movement in our offense sucks and when either marvin or josh get the ball its late in the shot clock lots of the time. The difference between the 2 is that josh gets it wide WIDE open, and still misses, and marvin gets it and either drives and gets fouled or takes the open jumper when its there. If josh hit more of those open jumpers that he had his % would be HIGHER than marv's!!!! Joe and bibby and flip didn't have high %s, hmmmmm i wonder y? This is a real pointless stat to try and use knowing the way that we run our offense!!!!

[Peoriabird]

Now I'm confused. So are you saying that Woodson's "offense" is built on ball movement and team play? :blink:

Didn't mention Woodson or the Hawks offense in my statement. I was just curious why assisted baskets count as a negative against a basketball player's offensive abilities.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Peoriabird

[Buzzard]

Didn't mention Woodson or the Hawks offense in my statement. I was just curious why assisted baskets count as a negative against a basketball player's offensive abilities.

Its obvious in some peoples minds that if you are passed the ball and make the shot you suck! God I wished Smoove and Horf sucked that bad from the perimeter. They would both be monster all stars, no ifs, ands, or buts, about it...

I am with you Peoriabird and don't understand why people have such a hard time figuring out this lame stat...Marvins' game is a compliment to both Horf and Smoove; otherwise Marvins defender would dump off him 4 ft to help on Horf ,Smoove, even JJ when they go down low. He spreads the floor and makes his shot. Teams do not leave him, Bibby, or JJ when they our out on the perimeter; if they do they pay

Marvins only bad deal is he was drafted 2nd. People want him to average 20ppg and take over games in the 4th. If he continues to improve like he did last year, we have a rock solid SF who is also a big bodied defender for his position.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Buzzard

[jy23]

Its obvious in some peoples minds that if you are passed the ball and make the shot you suck! God I wished Smoove and Horf sucked that bad from the perimeter. They would both be monster all stars, no ifs, ands, or buts, about it...

I am with you Peoriabird and don't understand why people have such a hard time figuring out this lame stat...Marvins' game is a compliment to both Horf and Smoove; otherwise Marvins defender would dump off him 4 ft to help on Horf ,Smoove, even JJ when they go down low. He spreads the floor and makes his shot. Teams do not leave him, Bibby, or JJ when they our out on the perimeter; if they do they pay

Marvins only bad deal is he was drafted 2nd. People want him to average 20ppg and take over games in the 4th. If he continues to improve like he did last year, we have a rock solid SF who is also a big bodied defender for his position.

Exactly, if we drafted him at another slot he wouldn't get as much flack as he does! I was one of the people who for a long time hated him strictly because of what we missed out on to get him but marv isn't a BAD player, he's just a victim of circumstance

[Admin]

Exactly, if we drafted him at another slot he wouldn't get as much flack as he does! I was one of the people who for a long time hated him strictly because of what we missed out on to get him but marv isn't a BAD player, he's just a victim of circumstance

I think that if he had been drafted anywhere else in the lottery he'd still get plenty of "hate" around here because of the flaws in his game, the same way that Josh Smith does. The difference is that he'd probably get more praise for the things that he does well such as being able to get to the FT line and make them at a high rate, being a solid yet unspectacular defender who has to guard some elite SF's and even PF's quite a bit, and for filling the role he is asked to fill each and every night without complaining about it whatsoever. I'm 100% confident that Marvin can do a lot more and I'm equally as confident that he knows he can do more and the fact that he plays within himself and within the team concept speaks volumes about his maturity.

[Diesel]

Wait, I don't understand. Why are you comparing Marvin's numbers (who was the 4th offensive option on our team, especially in the 4th when Flip saw a lot of clutch time), to players who were the first or second options on their respective teams?

Well, there are some who are trying to suggest that it's because of the system or because of Joe, Bibby, and Smoove that Marvin is a 4th option. That means that if you bring in a player and put him at Sf, then if it's system then he would automatically become a 4th option.

In short, all I am doing is removing these lame excuses being made for Marvin. Most of the board knows that if you replaced Marvin with Butler that Butler would not be our 4th option. That means that this is not Woody's system or because of Joe.