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[sillent]

We've had a team that boasted the lineup of

Jason Terry ( Up and Coming Guard)

Stephen Jackson( Getting into his prime)

Glen Robinson(All star scorer)

Shareef Abdul Rahim( All star)

Theo Ratliff(all star shot blocker at the time)

Didn't work we had to rebuild, Guess What? We are not the only team in the NBA that has tried and failed and won't be the last. Most of us are so mad at BK because nobody likes the rebuilding process especially when you are struggling to even be considered Mediocre. Get over it, his plan worked. He did in one of the hardest ways possible by starting from scratch with pretty much all draft picks. No he did not pick the best player and was more focused on creating the best team. Now all Sund has to do is fill in the blanks(not saying that this is always easy but I like the way he is going about filling it). Currently these are the teams that have or are close to reaching their ceiling and need to rebuild eventually to get out of this box.

Spurs Their All-Stars are getting old and on the decline.

Hornets Can not get Paul enough help in their current stage and Paul has too much pride to let his team be under mediocre to get it.

Jazz Have gone about as far as they can with their current roster and some of their key peices are declining or distracted.

Celtics Will be on their last legs in a couple of years.

Lakers Bynum is going to have to reign supreme in about 4 years.

Clippers Are just cursed but even if they get it together most of their stars are getting up in age.

Suns Are already beginning the course.

Heat Are a year into their rebuilding process. Wade is just that good so it's hard to notice.

Wizards Can give it another good run or two maybe but if you notice they have Blatche, Young, McGee, Crittenton, Foye hiding in the background. Well maybe not hiding.

Cavaliers Are in a make and break season and even if they keep Lebron but don't win they may be in need of some major revamping.

OKC May be seeing close to their finished product and just need time to develop.

Bobcats Are still trying to figure out how to get to the playoffs in what is now an even tougher conference/division.

Rockets Have been rebuilding slowly but surely they just haven't fell much because they are a tough bunch.

Mavericks Have to go for it all because they do not have much time left and are getting up in age in basketball years.

Pistons Started the process once they got rid of Ben/Chauncey.

Bulls Are close to their last stages of rebuilding.

Raptors Are currently looking like a team that maybe good but not great and Chris Bosh may not have the patience to wait.

Nuggets Are in their prime now but will have to start making some decisions if they can't win it all soon because they won't be in their prime for long. But Carmelo like Wade,Dwight, Lebron are always good pieces to build around. It's just hard on a minimum budget to get them more star power.

All these teams are obviously rebuilding.

Knicks

Warriors

Pacers

Nets

Grizzilies

Bucks

Kings

Wolves

Besides us the Blazers, Magic, 76ers in the next 5 years their are going to be a whole lot of changes in personal and power(elite status). I just wanted to give credit to BK/Sund for making sure our rebuilding process is not continues. They did not spend a whole lot of money for stars in their prime to get the win now and rebuild later. Even when doing things like this chemistry can be an issue(Look at Grizzilies on paper talent wise they look great). But the players they brought in might be cancerous enough for them to lose Rudy Gay and who knows who else. Look at Dallas who feel like they have too much money to have to rebuild but may eventually see their core not getting them too much farther. Or the Knicks waiting on pipe dreams that may or may not happen. Warriors have plenty of talent but look to be running in circles.

Can we as Hawks fans at least be thankful that our core is very talented and should have some of the strongest chemistry in the league(which is very important to win a championship) in a couple of years. We may not have to worry about rebuilding for many years to come and can now just add in pieces that fit.

[Sasquatch]

We've had a team that boasted the lineup of

Jason Terry ( Up and Coming Guard)

Stephen Jackson( Getting into his prime)

Glen Robinson(All star scorer)

Shareef Abdul Rahim( All star)

Theo Ratliff(all star shot blocker at the time)

Didn't work we had to rebuild, Guess What? We are not the only team in the NBA that has tried and failed and won't be the last. Most of us are so mad at BK because nobody likes the rebuilding process especially when you are struggling to even be considered Mediocre. Get over it, his plan worked. He did in one of the hardest ways possible by starting from scratch with pretty much all draft picks. No he did not pick the best player and was more focused on creating the best team. Now all Sund has to do is fill in the blanks(not saying that this is always easy but I like the way he is going about filling it). Currently these are the teams that have or are close to reaching their ceiling and need to rebuild eventually to get out of this box.

Spurs Their All-Stars are getting old and on the decline.

Hornets Can not get Paul enough help in their current stage and Paul has too much pride to let his team be under mediocre to get it.

Jazz Have gone about as far as they can with their current roster and some of their key peices are declining or distracted.

Celtics Will be on their last legs in a couple of years.

Lakers Bynum is going to have to reign supreme in about 4 years.

Clippers Are just cursed but even if they get it together most of their stars are getting up in age.

Suns Are already beginning the course.

Heat Are a year into their rebuilding process. Wade is just that good so it's hard to notice.

Wizards Can give it another good run or two maybe but if you notice they have Blatche, Young, McGee, Crittenton, Foye hiding in the background. Well maybe not hiding.

Cavaliers Are in a make and break season and even if they keep Lebron but don't win they may be in need of some major revamping.

OKC May be seeing close to their finished product and just need time to develop.

Bobcats Are still trying to figure out how to get to the playoffs in what is now an even tougher conference/division.

Rockets Have been rebuilding slowly but surely they just haven't fell much because they are a tough bunch.

Mavericks Have to go for it all because they do not have much time left and are getting up in age in basketball years.

Pistons Started the process once they got rid of Ben/Chauncey.

Bulls Are close to their last stages of rebuilding.

Raptors Are currently looking like a team that maybe good but not great and Chris Bosh may not have the patience to wait.

Nuggets Are in their prime now but will have to start making some decisions if they can't win it all soon because they won't be in their prime for long. But Carmelo like Wade,Dwight, Lebron are always good pieces to build around. It's just hard on a minimum budget to get them more star power.

All these teams are obviously rebuilding.

Knicks

Warriors

Pacers

Nets

Grizzilies

Bucks

Kings

Wolves

Besides us the Blazers, Magic, 76ers in the next 5 years their are going to be a whole lot of changes in personal and power(elite status). I just wanted to give credit to BK/Sund for making sure our rebuilding process is not continues. They did not spend a whole lot of money for stars in their prime to get the win now and rebuild later. Even when doing things like this chemistry can be an issue(Look at Grizzilies on paper talent wise they look great). But the players they brought in might be cancerous enough for them to lose Rudy Gay and who knows who else. Look at Dallas who feel like they have too much money to have to rebuild but may eventually see their core not getting them too much farther. Or the Knicks waiting on pipe dreams that may or may not happen. Warriors have plenty of talent but look to be running in circles.

Can we as Hawks fans at least be thankful that our core is very talented and should have some of the strongest chemistry in the league(which is very important to win a championship) in a couple of years. We may not have to worry about rebuilding for many years to come and can now just add in pieces that fit.

Wow

Just wow

This guy has put up some nice stuff

I find it interesting that just the mere fact that he wanted to give a modicum of credit to both GMs has generated such hateful responses.

I second the notion that BK did a good job

There is a reason nba teams do not build through the draft...

Because it is almost impossible... Well, BK did it

Sund has been fantastic because he could see what nobody else could. He has shown incredible vision and skill.

Just a note...

I am always suspicious of those that claim a particular person has absolutely no redeeming qualities... When you get to that point there is always a hidden agenda or motive

[Diesel]

I'll make my point here. I don't think it's unusual to see hate for BK. If BK were praise worthy, he would have not been replaced. The interesting thing is that good teams rarely rebuild. They reload. That's how they stay good. For example:

Lakers, Spurs, Jazz . These teams have stayed in the Hunt because they knew how to reload and not rebuild. Rebuilding most often leads to nothing.

When I think of teams that rebuilt mostly from the draft (as we did) I don't see any championships?

Can you think of a team that got most of it's power from the draft that has won a championship?

I guess the closest that you can get is the Cavs. And they haven't won yet.

BK heavily relied on his ability to draft talent. IN the end, the drafted talent is not what is making us championship caliber. The players that we traded for are the ones making the biggest impact. Yes, Horf and Smoove do their jobs, but the impact is mainly Joe, Bibby, and now Craw.

BK should be applauded for getting Joe. That took vision.

Somebody should be applauded for trading for Bibby.

However, we can't applaud without looking at the missteps too. I think that's what we see up and down the other thread. People know that we squandered many opportunities with bad picks.

[exodus]

Get over it, his plan worked.

The Hawks haven't even won a second round playoff game. So winning a first round series is your definition of success?

[macdaddy]

The Spurs were basically built through the draft right? Take away Duncan and Parker they aren't winning any championships.

The Hawks didn't have the luxury of being able to reload. We had players no one really wanted and we had no money. JT and Jax were the only guys that would go on to do anything in the league and they weren't guys that you could reload around. Plus they were the only ones with real value to bring anything back. I don't see where we had any choice but to rebuild. BK had a vision, stuck with it and got us back to being one of the better teams in the league. He made some major mistakes but lets face it some of those may not have been his mistakes. He had no support from the owners by the end.

[Guest]

We've had a team that boasted the lineup of

Jason Terry ( Up and Coming Guard)

Stephen Jackson( Getting into his prime)

Glen Robinson(All star scorer)

Shareef Abdul Rahim( All star)

Theo Ratliff(all star shot blocker at the time)

Stephen Jackson and Glenn never played together. They were a year off, Glenn in 02-03 (playoff guarantee) and Jackson in 03-04.

[Diesel]

The Spurs were basically built through the draft right? Take away Duncan and Parker they aren't winning any championships.

The Hawks didn't have the luxury of being able to reload. We had players no one really wanted and we had no money. JT and Jax were the only guys that would go on to do anything in the league and they weren't guys that you could reload around. Plus they were the only ones with real value to bring anything back. I don't see where we had any choice but to rebuild. BK had a vision, stuck with it and got us back to being one of the better teams in the league. He made some major mistakes but lets face it some of those may not have been his mistakes. He had no support from the owners by the end.

True, the spurs did build through the draft.

However, there were teams willing to trade with us.

Shareef had value.

JT had value.

Theo had value.

Al Harrington had value.

A Walker had value.

Rasheed had value

The thing is that BK was more willing to trade all players for draft picks because a draft pick doesn't cost as much as a player. Our finances is what led to our trading for picks... not finding trading partners. If we were a team with rich owners, we could have reloaded too.

[Buzzard]

The thing is that BK was more willing to trade all players for draft picks because a draft pick doesn't cost as much as a player. Our finances is what led to our trading for picks... not finding trading partners. If we were a team with rich owners, we could have reloaded too.

I think this is very accurate; and its just a shame BK did not put together a good enough scout team that saw all the talent that slipped by us. Or maybe his scout team did, but he did not trust their input. Either way the plan was solid.

We had opportunities to draft all-star caliber players; but with the exception of Smoove and Horf, his draft day decisions sucked. One could argue for Nelson over Smoove also; though I think this is pretty close talent wise and not as blatant as his other misses.

I also think if BK would have took Smoove over Chilz as was rumored weeks before the draft, then grabbed Nelson who was still there at 17; BK's legacy would be safe.

Edited November 6, 2009 by Buzzard

[thefloydian]

Do we really need to have two threads about how BK did a good job? One is stupid enough, but two is crossing the line. Please go back to wherever you both came from.

[Buzzard]

Do we really need to have two threads about how BK did a good job? One is stupid enough, but two is crossing the line. Please go back to wherever you both came from.

They have the right to post and argue; but yes the threads should be merged.

[sillent]

I'll make my point here. I don't think it's unusual to see hate for BK. If BK were praise worthy, he would have not been replaced. The interesting thing is that good teams rarely rebuild. They reload. That's how they stay good. For example:

Lakers, Spurs, Jazz . These teams have stayed in the Hunt because they knew how to reload and not rebuild. Rebuilding most often leads to nothing.

When I think of teams that rebuilt mostly from the draft (as we did) I don't see any championships?

Can you think of a team that got most of it's power from the draft that has won a championship?

I guess the closest that you can get is the Cavs. And they haven't won yet.

BK heavily relied on his ability to draft talent. IN the end, the drafted talent is not what is making us championship caliber. The players that we traded for are the ones making the biggest impact. Yes, Horf and Smoove do their jobs, but the impact is mainly Joe, Bibby, and now Craw.

BK should be applauded for getting Joe. That took vision.

Somebody should be applauded for trading for Bibby.

However, we can't applaud without looking at the missteps too. I think that's what we see up and down the other thread. People know that we squandered many opportunities with bad picks.

We are in the future and as you notice teams are starting to follow footsteps. The problem is most teams, fans, coaches, GM's lack the patience to really enjoy what they have created. Some just put talent together but we brought in all good character guys with a will to get better and to win!!

[sillent]

Do we really need to have two threads about how BK did a good job? One is stupid enough, but two is crossing the line. Please go back to wherever you both came from.

Are you Ernie. I know I've seen you on some show/movie before. What a character!! :laughing5:

[DJlaysitup]

The Spurs sort of built through the draft but it was kind of a flukish thing that seldom happens. If I remember right they already had David "the Admiral" Robinson, but he got hurt and was out for the year. Without him they stunk and ended up with a very high draft pick with which they were able to draft Tim Duncan. Then once Robinson got healthy again walla! A 7 foot all-star center and a 6-11 all-star forward.

I don't think you can fairly call that "building" through the draft...they got lucky.

[exodus]

The Spurs sort of built through the draft but it was kind of a flukish thing that seldom happens. If I remember right they already had David "the Admiral" Robinson, but he got hurt and was out for the year. Without him they stunk and ended up with a very high draft pick with which they were able to draft Tim Duncan. Then once Robinson got healthy again walla! A 7 foot all-star center and a 6-11 all-star forward.

I don't think you can fairly call that "building" through the draft...they got lucky.

They drafted Paker late in the 1st round and drafted Manu in the 2nd round. it wasn't just luck.

Their GM Buford would have had a field day with the picks BK had.

[Atlantaholic]

They drafted Paker late in the 1st round and drafted Manu in the 2nd round. it wasn't just luck.

Their GM Buford would have had a field day with the picks BK had.

I don't know how anyone remotely rational is satissfied with Childress, Shelden, Marvin, Horford, as top 7 picks. Horford is by far the best of the bunch and he is merely good. On stronger drafts Horford would have been a 10-15 pick. We are supposed to be able to get at least ONE freaking All Star after four chances at bat in the top 7 (Three in the top 5!, two in the top 3!). It is just... gosh, freaking abysmal anyway you want to slice it.

The whole... "it was part of the plan" is an absolute lie. BK would do over three of those four picks without question, and he'd probably still be employed. BK had proyections for those four players and if you think Chill, Shelden, and Marvin, met those projections you are crazier than BK himself. He thought Marvin would be a Carmelo Anthony type scorer, Shelden a Horford type center, and Childress a guy who could play PG and be a leader. Non of those things even came close to true, and the only one of his picks that turned out was Horf. That is the definition of failure.

The sad thing is that his drafting looks almost good compared to his Free Agent track record. At least we can thank god Kenyon and Damp turned his ludicrous offers down.

Edited November 6, 2009 by Atlantaholic

[buckeye242424]

The Spurs sort of built through the draft but it was kind of a flukish thing that seldom happens. If I remember right they already had David "the Admiral" Robinson, but he got hurt and was out for the year. Without him they stunk and ended up with a very high draft pick with which they were able to draft Tim Duncan. Then once Robinson got healthy again walla! A 7 foot all-star center and a 6-11 all-star forward.

I don't think you can fairly call that "building" through the draft...they got lucky.

It wasn't a fluke. They tanked on purpose, hoping to get s legit shot at Duncan. Finishing with the third worst record in the league was enough. Every four or five years (maybe not now because of the one and done rule) there's a college player,or in LeBron's sake high school player, out there that's head and shoulders above the rest. So I do think there's some luck involved...at the expense of season after you lose your MVP. But, whatever. They got the best PF of all time and are still reaping the benefits.

[DJlaysitup]

They drafted Paker late in the 1st round and drafted Manu in the 2nd round. it wasn't just luck.

Their GM Buford would have had a field day with the picks BK had.

I will certainly grant you that.

[Atlantaholic]

It wasn't a fluke. They tanked on purpose, hoping to get s legit shot at Duncan. Finishing with the third worst record in the league was enough. Every four or five years (maybe not now because of the one and done rule) there's a college player,or in LeBron's sake high school player, out there that's head and shoulders above the rest. So I do think there's some luck involved...at the expense of season after you lose your MVP. But, whatever. They got the best PF of all time and are still reaping the benefits.

There is always luck involved with building a team. The point is to take advantage of oportunities when you DO have luck. (I.E. Picking second with both Williams and Paul on the board). Failing to do so is doubly awful due to the luck that is required to even be in that position. People will say we were unlucky we didn't win the lottery and drafted Dwight, but we had already had our chance at a Franchise, hall of fame, player and blew it.