This team ain't going far.

[Plainview1981]

I wonder why he is honest only when Hawks lose.

Cleveland lost to a worse team last night & lost at home the night before. Lakers lost at home on Thursday. Orlando lost at home to a team that has several new players.

It is not easy to beat motivated teams at home.

I think the double team help and defensive rotation is noticably better after the all star break.

I thought Crawford's injury will be a major problem for a few weeks, but he seems to have adjusted well in the 2nd half.

Horford sat out with 2 fouls for tooooooooooo long and that took him out of his rhythm.

Marvin absolutely sucked & played like a drunk sailor but somehow he had +7 in his 34 minutes - best in the team. In the 14 minutes he sat, Hawks went -15. He must have done something we didn't notice.

These same guys usually suck no matter if the team wins or not. Why don't you tell me what Marvin did so well last night.

Cleveland lost to a worse team last night & lost at home the night before. Lakers lost at home on Thursday. Orlando lost at home to a team that has several new players.

Oh god, Cleveland lost 2 games. That means the Hawks weaknesses don't exists..

Edited February 20, 2010 by Hotlanta1981

[DJlaysitup]

In case you haven't noticed, the Magic have the same problem, 2 starters that are trash.

Vince Carter having the worst season of his career, and Matt Barnes still chucking too many threes and refusing to play defense. Orlando got 6 points from their bench tonight on 3-19 shooting, and outside of Dwight, their whole team is inconsistent... We are 2 games out of the #2 seed, stop overreacting again.

Agreed, but I get tired of the "they s_ck as bad as us" defense for our poor play. What really got on my nerves last night was watching our inside play basically keep us in the game early only to see the perimeter guys continue to chuck at will. Is Woody simply incapable of modifying a game plan or do our guards simply ignore him once they take the floor?

[jerrywest]

Hotlanta81 -

did you read that I said "Marvin absolutely sucked & played like a drunk sailor"?

Cleveland lost twice which means loses are part of a season.

You created two very weak strawmen.

Why do you hide in your mother's womb when Hawks win?

Edited February 20, 2010 by jerrywest

[Plainview1981]

Hotlanta81 -

did you read that I said "Marvin absolutely sucked & played like a drunk sailor"?

Cleveland lost twice which means loses are part of a season.

You created two very weak strawmen.

Why do you hide in your mother's womb when Hawks win?

Yeah, but then you turn right around and suggest he must have done something right since he had a positive +/- rating.

Oh gee whiz.... Every team losses games. So what? Does that change that Evans, Bibby, ZaZa and Marvin have sucked this year? Cause that is the point of the discussion. That this team can't make a real playoff run simply because they don't have enough productive players to do so. They have the same problem they had when they were a playoff team 12 years ago. No depth... And guess what, none of those teams made deep playoff runs either. Orlando and Cleveland have both proven that they can make deep playoff runs. This team has not. Even This team has no superstar so it needs some sort of balance.... Instead, the team is very top heavy. After the top 4 players, the rest of the team is garbage.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Hotlanta1981

[jerrywest]

I'd like to see Hotlanta's average post counts in the 24 hours after the loses and 24 hours after the wins.

[Plainview1981]

I'd like to see Hotlanta's average post counts in the 24 hours after the loses and 24 hours after the wins.

I don't understand why you have got defensive because I've pointed out that sucky players suck. How is there to get defensive about?

[MaceCase]

I don't understand why you have got defensive because I've pointed out that sucky players suck. How is there to get defensive about?

Except you don't point such things out when they, you know, don't suck. If the idea is that they suck whether the team wins or loses, how come you only point it out after losses?

How is it a running gag in the chats that you won't show up if the team is winning yet turn it around and the team is losing we have a countdown to when you show up. FYI, you haven't let us down yet.

You say people are getting defensive over you pointing out that sucky players suck? Well why are you getting defensive over people saying a predictable punchline is a predictable punchline?

It surely can't be such a coincidence that you only find yourself in front of a computer when the hawks lose.

[Atlantaholic]

to be honest if either Marvin or Bibby would start consistently hitting wide open jumpers again, we would look much better. That may be a tall order though.

[Plainview1981]

Except you don't point such things out when they, you know, don't suck. If the idea is that they suck whether the team wins or loses, how come you only point it out after losses?

How is it a running gag in the chats that you won't show up if the team is winning yet turn it around and the team is losing we have a countdown to when you show up. FYI, you haven't let us down yet.

You say people are getting defensive over you pointing out that sucky players suck? Well why are you getting defensive over people saying a predictable punchline is a predictable punchline?

It surely can't be such a coincidence that you only find yourself in front of a computer when the hawks lose.

When does Bibby not suck this year? One out of every 7 or 8 games? I rarely attacked Bibby last season because he was doing what he was supposed to do. This year he is NOT doing what he is supposed to do so I bash him. These guys get paid a lot of money, so I don't feel the need to get excited when they do what they're supposed to do. Bibby basically gets paid a couple of million a year to hit a few shots a game and he can't even do that right. Before this year, I haven't bashed Marvin much either outside of the disappointment of him being drafted over Paul. But he was drafted with a top 3 pick and 4 years later he is inferior to a 38 year old Grant Hill. That simply doesn't cut it.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Hotlanta1981

[TheTruth]

Oh gee whiz.... Every team losses games. So what? Does that change that Evans, Bibby, ZaZa and Marvin have sucked this year? Cause that is the point of the discussion. That this team can't make a real playoff run simply because they don't have enough productive players to do so. They have the same problem they had when they were a playoff team 12 years ago. No depth... And guess what, none of those teams made deep playoff runs either. Orlando and Cleveland have both proven that they can make deep playoff runs. This team has not. Even This team has no superstar so it needs some sort of balance.... Instead, the team is very top heavy. After the top 4 players, the rest of the team is garbage.

Some of us are losing track of the real discussion here by looking at WHO the original poster was instead of WHAT the original post's contents are. Concerning the real discussion, I'd have to agree with you. This team, as it currently stands, is not built to make a run in the playoffs...It just isn't. You are right, this team is very top heavy: Outside of JJ, Smoove, Crawford (pre-all-star break due to his bum shoulder and subsequent terrible shooting since), and Horford (just not against 7 footers/athletic bigs), we have no one else. We won a lot of games to start the season, and winning hides flaws...just like losing amplifies them (thanks ATLHolic). We have seen Zaza regress and show just how terrible, turnover-prone and unathletic he is, Joe Smith hasn't delivered on higher expectations for him, Teague doesn't get minutes and rarely contributes in such limited time, and Mo Evans has been consistently terrible. That's our entire bench sans Crawford! Plus, those guys don't rebound well at all, so it amplifies that weakness. Marvin and Bibby are having career years of the bad variety after playing so well last year. Since Crawford has been hobbled ever since the injury, our bench won't give us anything at all. And since Bibby can't even hit a WIDE-OPEN jump shot anymore, our backup PG spot is REALLY weak since Woodson hasn't given Teague consistent minutes (around 10-12) to help develop the kid in case of emergency. We ALL thought the emergency would be either Bibby or Crawford missing time, but no one thought (after last year) it would be Bibby deteriorating before our very eyes.

Bottom line: This team will probably beat/destroy whoever their first round matchup is and then get crushed by Cleveland or Orlando. It's not a lack of faith or not supporting the team, it is simply facing reality. It is hard to win when you are handcuffed by an average-at-best coach, a top heavy team, little rebounding, weak play on the road, and no bench. We could win the next 10 games for all I care, but if the top-heaviness, lack of rebounding, terrible bench play, average coaching, and off-and-on road play continue, we are screwed come playoff time.

[DarnShadyRefs]

Some of us are losing track of the real discussion here by looking at WHO the original poster was instead of WHAT the original post's contents are. Concerning the real discussion, I'd have to agree with you. This team, as it currently stands, is not built to make a run in the playoffs...It just isn't. You are right, this team is very top heavy: Outside of JJ, Smoove, Crawford (pre-all-star break due to his bum shoulder and subsequent terrible shooting since), and Horford (just not against 7 footers/athletic bigs), we have no one else. We won a lot of games to start the season, and winning hides flaws...just like losing amplifies them (thanks ATLHolic). We have seen Zaza regress and show just how terrible, turnover-prone and unathletic he is, Joe Smith hasn't delivered on higher expectations for him, Teague doesn't get minutes and rarely contributes in such limited time, and Mo Evans has been consistently terrible. That's our entire bench sans Crawford! Plus, those guys don't rebound well at all, so it amplifies that weakness. Marvin and Bibby are having career years of the bad variety after playing so well last year. Since Crawford has been hobbled ever since the injury, our bench won't give us anything at all. And since Bibby can't even hit a WIDE-OPEN jump shot anymore, our backup PG spot is REALLY weak since Woodson hasn't given Teague consistent minutes (around 10-12) to help develop the kid in case of emergency. We ALL thought the emergency would be either Bibby or Crawford missing time, but no one thought (after last year) it would be Bibby deteriorating before our very eyes.

Bottom line: This team will probably beat/destroy whoever their first round matchup is and then get crushed by Cleveland or Orlando. It's not a lack of faith or not supporting the team, it is simply facing reality. It is hard to win when you are handcuffed by an average-at-best coach, a top heavy team, little rebounding, weak play on the road, and no bench. We could win the next 10 games for all I care, but if the top-heaviness, lack of rebounding, terrible bench play, average coaching, and off-and-on road play continue, we are screwed come playoff time.

Preach man. You are what we thought your username states you are!

[Diesel]

Some of us are losing track of the real discussion here by looking at WHO the original poster was instead of WHAT the original post's contents are. Concerning the real discussion, I'd have to agree with you. This team, as it currently stands, is not built to make a run in the playoffs...It just isn't. You are right, this team is very top heavy: Outside of JJ, Smoove, Crawford (pre-all-star break due to his bum shoulder and subsequent terrible shooting since), and Horford (just not against 7 footers/athletic bigs), we have no one else. We won a lot of games to start the season, and winning hides flaws...just like losing amplifies them (thanks ATLHolic). We have seen Zaza regress and show just how terrible, turnover-prone and unathletic he is, Joe Smith hasn't delivered on higher expectations for him, Teague doesn't get minutes and rarely contributes in such limited time, and Mo Evans has been consistently terrible. That's our entire bench sans Crawford! Plus, those guys don't rebound well at all, so it amplifies that weakness. Marvin and Bibby are having career years of the bad variety after playing so well last year. Since Crawford has been hobbled ever since the injury, our bench won't give us anything at all. And since Bibby can't even hit a WIDE-OPEN jump shot anymore, our backup PG spot is REALLY weak since Woodson hasn't given Teague consistent minutes (around 10-12) to help develop the kid in case of emergency. We ALL thought the emergency would be either Bibby or Crawford missing time, but no one thought (after last year) it would be Bibby deteriorating before our very eyes.

Bottom line: This team will probably beat/destroy whoever their first round matchup is and then get crushed by Cleveland or Orlando. It's not a lack of faith or not supporting the team, it is simply facing reality. It is hard to win when you are handcuffed by an average-at-best coach, a top heavy team, little rebounding, weak play on the road, and no bench. We could win the next 10 games for all I care, but if the top-heaviness, lack of rebounding, terrible bench play, average coaching, and off-and-on road play continue, we are screwed come playoff time.

Well, let's examine things a little more closely... Not that i disagree... however, I want to look at all angles.

We both agree that basketball is about matchups... usually matchups win. However, there are other factors that come into play.. a very strong one for our team is Homecourt advantage.

Orlando 76-93

New York 107-114

Cleveland 84-95

New York 108-112

OKC 91-94

Miami 76-94

Those are our 6 home losses. We are 21 - 6 at home.

Only Orlando has a big man that dominates us at home... and his team wins. I would say that the win was more about Bibby's defense on Johnson than Howard's scoring.

The home losses are hard to explain other than Bad matchups.

OKC is a bad matchup for us.

Cleveland has been a bad matchup.

NY with Nate is not a good matchup.

Miami is just a rivalry.

But in those losses, it's not the bigs that hurt us....

If we're not losing because of a size advantage, then that's something that we can fix between now and the playoffs.

There are those 21 games though.... including Portland with Oden, Denver with Nene, Boston, and Memphis who have came into our home arena and got thrashed.

The playoffs have no back to back games. Coaches have time to gameplan and make corrections. Woody has shown that he can do this. I think that in a 7 game series, we have the opportunity to beat anybody.

We are 21-6 at home...

13-13 away...

I think we can beat anybody...

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The only thing that Hotlanta and I have agreed on this season are:

* Rebounding was the main concern with this team to start the season

* The bench, outside of Crawford, is weak

The whole "we have a strong bench" slogan that the fans and Woody tried to tell people, just wasn't showing up on the court. The 2nd unit has been playing bad about 75% of the time all year.

But I also agree with Atlantaholic. If Bibby and Marvin would just make some dang open jumpers, this offense wouldn't go through those long scoring lulls.

Even with our "problems", this team, when you look at them by month, has been pretty steady. We're going through maybe a bad week maybe week and a half of games, then correct that problem with two to three good weeks.\

The Hawks play just like Denver and Utah though.

[Plainview1981]

The only thing that Hotlanta and I have agreed on this season are:

* Rebounding was the main concern with this team to start the season

* The bench, outside of Crawford, is weak

The whole "we have a strong bench" slogan that the fans and Woody tried to tell people, just wasn't showing up on the court. The 2nd unit has been playing bad about 75% of the time all year.

But I also agree with Atlantaholic. If Bibby and Marvin would just make some dang open jumpers, this offense wouldn't go through those long scoring lulls.

Even with our "problems", this team, when you look at them by month, has been pretty steady. We're going through maybe a bad week maybe week and a half of games, then correct that problem with two to three good weeks.\

The Hawks play just like Denver and Utah though.

Utah is the best comparison. So I guess we have something else. I think Denver has a tougher team when healthy though. Billups/Mello/Martin and Nene are just tougher than the Hawks players. That could make a difference if the teams are both healthy in the playoffs and they played each other. But Utah is the Hawks with better fundamentals. But the play outside of that is about the same.

The reason Denver is the biggest challenge for the Lakers is that they provide that toughness that can give LA fits. That Boston team 2 years ago was a lot tougher than the Celtics the Hawks played in the first round. That Celtics team wasn't battle tested when the Hawks played them in the playoffs. But by the time they had gotten through 3 grueling playoff series they were prepared for the Lakers.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Hotlanta1981