Does anyone disagree that Al Horford is not Karl Malone's clone

[DJlaysitup]

Al Horford is an excellent player for his time in the league. He also deserves respect for being a backup guy that trained the USA team. He is a "company man" as far as the NBA is concerned since he's not all tatted up and that's what Stern wants....so he made the all-star team....big whoops.

But, He's not even a PF? How could anybody compare an undersized Center to an Alltime-NBA Power Forward? I realize Al is young compared to what Karl Malone accomplished in his career - but this is silly. Al Horford is a Center. As far as all-timers you can't compare him to a young Karl Malone...no no...you have to compare him to a young Lanier, Wilt, Shaq, Kareem or at least Dwight. Karl Malone was one of the five best PFs EVER. So to compare an undersized Center to Karl Malone would be similar to comparing JJ to Worthy...they play different positions.

No offense but it's ridiculous.

Edited March 19, 2010 by DJlaysitup

[coachx]

Al Horford doesnt play anything like Karl Malone IMO I see him as an Alonzo Mourning type player..an undersized, double double guy that can hurt you in the post and knock down a few mid range jumpers...he isnt the shot blocker Alonzo was but he's solid at that. I dont see Malone at all

Dude..............Alonzo was Horford X 2.

Don't diss Zo like that. Zo was more athletic and had 25 lbs of more muscle then Al. Its a shame he lost a kidney in his prime.

Al is good and all but he is more Antonio Davis then he is Malone or Mourning.Anonio Davis would have put up much better numbers in his prime but he played for a very deep Pacer team that trotted out a front court of Rick Smits, Dale Davis, Chris Mullin, & Derrick McKey. So minnutes were spread out.

He is some where in between A. Davis and Zo. Hows that ?

Edited March 19, 2010 by coachx

[Joker]

Going from the video I seen from 87-88, he was a great scorer that season. I seen the most tape on him from this season. Second most was his MVP season.

Post Offense-

Malone-His opponents were typically his size and not as strong and athletic as Malone. He used a lot of picks to get open for himself. His jump-shot was good but his athleticism was great compared to others in the same position. The PF position did not have the quality like it has today, especially on defense.

Horford- His opponents are typically bigger than him and slightly stronger but Horford is much more athletic than them. Like Malone, he uses picks to get open for himself. Similar jump-shot and athleticism when comparing the two. The Center position lacks the quality it had in the 80's but the players are much stronger and our better at man to man defense. Horford is clearly undersized at Center but bigger than the typical PF at PF.

Post Defense

Malone- Great man to man defense in the post. Amazing footwork for a PF when compared to other players at the position.

Horford- Great man to man defense in the post. Amazing footwork for a Center, same compared to others PF and Centers.

Passing

Malone- One of the better passing PF's especially in his 3rd season. Could pass better when doubled.

Horford- Clearly one of the better passing Centers in the NBA. Does not have C Webb passing ability but wow is he good. I will give him the slight edge on passing.

Mid Range (Sht)

Malone- Clearly one of the best mid range shooters in NBA history, even as a PF and in his 3rd season, was golden.

Horford- Shows a lot of potential, does not get a lot of shots, but when he does, he is fairly reliable from this range.

Close

Malone- Really good around the basket and has a nose for the ball even this early in his career. I did not realize his was good at this till I watched the film.

Deep

Malone- His deep jumper was average at this point of his career. He really improved as his career came alone in this category.

Horford- Does not shoot enough from this range for analysis.

Three Pointers

Malone- 0-5 by stats and did not see him shoot a three on tape.

Horford- I seen him shoot one earlier this season and made it but really did not shot the three ball.

Screen and Roll

Malone- There is a reason why people think of this when Malone name is brought up. One of the best in the league, as a 3rd year player.

Horford- See Malone's

Help Defense

Malone- Is very good at transition defense and positioning. Solid at forcing turnovers from help-side defense. It helps to have Mark Eaton.

Horford- Is good at transition defense and great at positioning. Good at forcing turnovers from help-side defense. It really helps to have Josh Smith.

Man Defense

Malone- Excellent

Horford- Excellent except v. talented Centers. He struggles with talented Centers.

Footwork

Malone- The best I seen from a PF when watching tapes of players in the 80's.

Horford- One of the best in the NBA at Center or even PF. No one is Duncan or Kevin Garnett but he's at a extremely high level.

Strength

Malone- Strong as an ox, espcially compared to others at the position. It's crazy that he gotten twice as strong later in his career.

Horford- See Malone except for the later in his career part.

Court Vision

Malone- Solid, he was solid at this. He vary from game to game till later in his career. In his MVP season, he was special.

Horford- Solid, him and Josh are the best combination of passing big men outside of Boston.

Ability to draw double coverage

Malone- One of the best in the league, seriously this is one area were I counted he was double 10 times and while Al was doubled 8 times in the two games.

Horford- He draws it often for the amount of touches he receives but is no Malone even when as 3rd year players.

Clearly, I am not responding to exodus anymore, he's just trolling. As for the comment made about him to Zo. No way, Zo was one of the best athletes I've seen at Center and he actually is a Center. Horford is not nor is he a Center.

This is there is 3rd season stats. Even out position and in different time and roles, the similarities continue.

Season Age Tm Lg G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS

1987-88 24 UTA NBA 82 82 39.0 10.5 20.1 .520 0.0 0.1 .000 6.7 9.6 .700 3.4 8.6 12.0 2.4 1.4 0.6 4.0 3.6 27.7

2009-10 23 ATL NBA 67 67 35.1 5.8 10.3 .557 0.0 0.0 1.000 2.7 3.4 .775 2.8 6.7 9.5 2.3 0.8 1.1 1.5 2.8 14.2

Horford FG% is higher, even out of position but he also takes less shots than Malone by almost 10 a game. Giving that there roles are completely different, it's understandable. So even using stats, the similarities continue.

[EazyRoc]

LOL! This topic was over before it started. To correct someone above me, I think Karl Malone was probably Top 3..not Top 5. Tim Duncan and Charles Barkley are the only ones I can even think about being better than Karl Malone.

[Joker]

LOL! This topic was over before it started. To correct someone above me, I think Karl Malone was probably Top 3..not Top 5. Tim Duncan and Charles Barkley are the only ones I can even think about being better than Karl Malone.

This is not about what Malone is career wise to Horford. This is about what his skills and skill-set reflects. I remember doing this with Drew Brees when he was with San Diego and saying he could be the next Dan Marino, everyone laughed at me. Take a look at me now. He could have easily broke Marino passing record two years ago and is now a Super Bowl champion and the game's MVP. I guess I am an idiot because I do not sway on what I believe in. Especially if I fully evaluated it.

I was not even the first person to say this about Horford. It was another poster who said it a couple of times awhile back and I decided to evaluated the two to each other at the same stage. I wish you would look into what I saying instead of come up with career stuff which no one could compare to in their 3rd season.

Edited March 19, 2010 by nbasuperstar40

[Joker]

Here's an article from a blog, that speaks on Horford.

http://www.humanhighlightblog.com/2010/01/thhb-special-commentary-trade-al.html

[EazyRoc]

This is not about what Malone is career wise to Horford. This is about what his skills and skill-set reflects. I remember doing this with Drew Brees when he was with San Diego and saying he could be the next Dan Marino, everyone laughed at me. Take a look at me now. He could have easily broke Marino passing record two years ago and is now a Super Bowl champion and the game's MVP. I guess I am an idiot because I do not sway on what I believe in. Especially if I fully evaluated it.

I was not even the first person to say this about Horford. It was another poster who said it a couple of times awhile back and I decided to evaluated the two to each other at the same stage. I wish you would look into what I saying instead of come up with career stuff which no one could compare to in their 3rd season.

I never called you an idiot. However, that is a horrible comparison. You might need to stick to football with the comparisons lol.

[TruJerz]

Dude..............Alonzo was Horford X 2.

Don't diss Zo like that. Zo was more athletic and had 25 lbs of more muscle then Al. Its a shame he lost a kidney in his prime.

Al is good and all but he is more Antonio Davis then he is Malone or Mourning.Anonio Davis would have put up much better numbers in his prime but he played for a very deep Pacer team that trotted out a front court of Rick Smits, Dale Davis, Chris Mullin, & Derrick McKey. So minnutes were spread out.

He is some where in between A. Davis and Zo. Hows that ?

lol i was just saying he is more like Zo than Malone..but he isnt as good as Alonzo yet either..has a ways to go but will probably never get as big and strong as him but he can put up similar numbers across the board IMO

[Joker]

I never called you an idiot. However, that is a horrible comparison. You might need to stick to football with the comparisons lol.

lol, it's not a horrible comparison and I rarely make football comparisons unless it's at Quarterback. It's a fair comparison if you would read the information and do the research.

[dlpin]

Yes, it is a horrible comparison. And when every other hawks fan says it's a horrible comparison, that is because it goes beyond homerism.

Horford is to Malone what 14.2 ppg and 9.5 rpg is to 27.7 ppg and 12 rpg. That is, good, but still not even close.

You are trying to compare the 4th best player on a 50 win team to the best player on a 47 win team.

[exodus]

This is there is 3rd season stats. Even out position and in different time and roles, the similarities continue.

Season Age Tm Lg G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS

1987-88 24 UTA NBA 82 82 39.0 10.5 20.1 .520 0.0 0.1 .000 6.7 9.6 .700 3.4 8.6 12.0 2.4 1.4 0.6 4.0 3.6 27.7

2009-10 23 ATL NBA 67 67 35.1 5.8 10.3 .557 0.0 0.0 1.000 2.7 3.4 .775 2.8 6.7 9.5 2.3 0.8 1.1 1.5 2.8 14.2

Horford FG% is higher, even out of position but he also takes less shots than Malone by almost 10 a game. Giving that there roles are completely different, it's understandable. So even using stats, the similarities continue.

Great logic there. I suppose Childress could be a better scorer than Kobe if he got more shots. After all childress shot a higher percentage than Kobe.

:slap1:

[coachx]

lol i was just saying he is more like Zo than Malone..but he isnt as good as Alonzo yet either..has a ways to go but will probably never get as big and strong as him but he can put up similar numbers across the board IMO

Hey man, I'll be the 1st to say I went a bit over board. No offense intended. Zo was my favorite player in the league for a while.

Edited March 19, 2010 by coachx

[AHF]

LOL! This topic was over before it started. To correct someone above me, I think Karl Malone was probably Top 3..not Top 5. Tim Duncan and Charles Barkley are the only ones I can even think about being better than Karl Malone.

This is why Bob Pettit is the most underrated player in NBA history.

We are on a Hawks fan site. Pettit was a Hawk and yet he isn't even considered to be on the same level as Charles Barkley?

Pettit:

10 Consecutive First-Team All-NBA (11 total for Malone)

2 MVPs (same for Malone)

Finished top 4 in MVP voting 8 times (9 times for Malone)

Career averages:

26.4 ppg (25 ppg for Malone)

16.2 rpg (10.1 rpb for Malone)

Led the Hawks to their only championship over the Boston Celtics (no championships for Malone)

The conversation is a 3 person one - but it is Duncan, Malone and Pettit - not Barkley!

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pettibo01.html

Edited March 19, 2010 by AHF

[Joker]

This is why Bob Pettit is the most underrated player in NBA history.

We are on a Hawks fan site. Pettit was a Hawk and yet he isn't even considered to be on the same level as Charles Barkley?

Pettit:

10 Consecutive First-Team All-NBA (11 total for Malone)

2 MVPs (same for Malone)

Finished top 4 in MVP voting 8 times (9 times for Malone)

Career averages:

26.4 ppg (25 ppg for Malone)

16.2 rpg (10.1 rpb for Malone)

Led the Hawks to their only championship over the Boston Celtics (no championships for Malone)

The conversation is a 3 person one - but it is Duncan, Malone and Pettit - not Barkley!

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pettibo01.html

Agreed but it's hard for me to say Pettit and I actually read a lot on him. There just isn't enough tape for people to really know about him in terms of skill.

Edited March 19, 2010 by nbasuperstar40

[niremetal]

I love Al. A Swingman Horford jersey is my pickup attire of choice. But to suggest that he is just "slightly worse" offensively than the second-leading scorer of all time is ridiculous. There is not a single facet of Horford's offensive game - mid-range, post-up moves, free throw shooting, or even put-backs - that compares to Malone's. By this point in Malone's career, he was averaging 28ppg. Horford is at half that. I'm sorry, but Horford is not even remotely close to being in the same solar system as Malone offensively. Duncan is the only PF in the NBA today who is.

And Horford a better passer than Malone? Really? Sorry, but that's insane. Although he's definitely one of the top 5 passing big men in the game today, Horford isn't even at Brad Miller's level yet. Malone might have been the best passing PF in NBA history.

Defensively, it's closer, but only someone who doesn't remember Malone clearly can say that Horford is better than Malone defensively. Malone's strength and athleticism enabled him to body up any big man in the NBA. Hell, he was probably the best on-ball defender against Shaq in the whole league early on, despite Shaq having 5 inches on him. His defensive awareness and anticipation was remarkable, and he is probably one of the most underrated defenders of the last 25 years (he anchored the Jazz's defense, which always was one of the league's best, but his offensive achievements and lack of gaudy block numbers led to him being overlooked). Horford might get there, but he's not there yet.

Love Al, but there's no comparison. It's crazy to suggest they're even remotely in the same class.

Edited March 19, 2010 by niremetal

[AHF]

Agreed but it's hard for me to say Pettit and I actually read a lot on him. There just isn't enough tape for people to really know about him in terms of skill.

Beating Bill Russell's Celtics and getting more MVP votes than Russell, Wilt Chamberlein, Oscar Robertson, Elgin Baylor and others says a lot in terms of skill!

[EazyRoc]

Beating Bill Russell's Celtics and getting more MVP votes than Russell, Wilt Chamberlein, Oscar Robertson, Elgin Baylor and others says a lot in terms of skill!

Quite frankly, I don't know anything about Bob Petit. However, the level of big men competition has went up greatly over the years. Sometimes I just think about what Shaq or even Dwight Howard would have looked like back in those days. The point I'm making is Bob Petit had a great career and that can never be taken away from him. I couldn't even argue against your opinion that he's a Top 3 PF, but I personally have a hard time respecting bigs from those days because the NBA wasn't as big and as strong as it is now.

Edited March 20, 2010 by EazyRoc

[AHF]

I know. Wilt Chamberlein would get ruled by the All-Stars today like Chris Kaman, Al Horford, David Lee, and Zach Randolph. How could old timey, inferior interior players like Walt Bellamy, Wilt Chamberlein, and Bill Russell hope to compete against the kind of really outstanding big man play in the league today?

Seriously, the big men competition was better in those days due to the lack of expansion. Shaq would dominate in any era but so would guys like Wilt, Pettit and Russell.

[Joker]

I know. Wilt Chamberlein would get ruled by the All-Stars today like Chris Kaman, Al Horford, David Lee, and Zach Randolph. How could old timey, inferior interior players like Walt Bellamy, Wilt Chamberlein, and Bill Russell hope to compete against the kind of really outstanding big man play in the league today?

Seriously, the big men competition was better in those days due to the lack of expansion. Shaq would dominate in any era but so would guys like Wilt, Pettit and Russell.

Pettit was more skill base but without question, the greats would be great in any era.

[Diesel]

I know. Wilt Chamberlein would get ruled by the All-Stars today like Chris Kaman, Al Horford, David Lee, and Zach Randolph. How could old timey, inferior interior players like Walt Bellamy, Wilt Chamberlein, and Bill Russell hope to compete against the kind of really outstanding big man play in the league today?

Seriously, the big men competition was better in those days due to the lack of expansion. Shaq would dominate in any era but so would guys like Wilt, Pettit and Russell.

Shaq vs. Russell would have been fun to watch. Russell was def not as big but if meanness was money, Russell would be a FaFilllionaire.