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Selfish JJ was the ultimate ball-hog vs. the Bucks


hawks21

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The stat line is somehwat deceiving with Joe Johnson's scoring line, but the Hawks were in control of the game with Johnson only have 13 points through three quarters. Joe Johnson is the pseudo point guard when Bibby is on the bench, but he totally forgot about his teammates in a tough road loss-- a game the Hawks shoulkd have won by double-digits.

It was as if Joe wanted to get HIS points in the 4th at the expense of the team. Jamal had 21 by the end of the third quarter, and it seems Joe wanted to surpass Jamal by the end of the night...and he got his wish.

It was a little ironic in the end once Joe's selfishness sealed the Hawks' fate that the team had less than three seconds (at 98-95) and Jamal finally got his second shot attempt of the quarter, a very tough three point shot attempt at the buzzer.

Joe has to realize that Jamal isn't the enemy, and Joe has to be more content in getting the ASSIST and passing to the open guy not jacking up three-point shots in the corner with three people in your face or getting trapped along the baseline with an open Jamal and Bibby outside the three-point arc.

And Joe committing the foul on Salmons thirty to forty ft. away from the basket was puzzling. Frustration, anger, whatever it was..it isn't a good sign going forward vs. Milwaukee, a potential playoff opponent.

Joe needs to be called out for his selfishness.

Edited by hawks21
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i like JJ and pray that we resign him but im wit you on all the points you made! jj got to chill man and look to pass the ball! jj isn't a selfish player, any true hawk fan can tell you that. i guess jj really felt he needed to take over cause thats what salmons was doing for the bucks. so i guess what im trying to say is jj felt he needed to match the challenge of salmons in winning the game for his team.

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The stat line is somehwat deceiving with Joe Johnson's scoring line, but the Hawks were in control of the game with Johnson only have 13 points through three quarters. Joe Johnson is the pseudo point guard when Bibby is on the bench, but he totally forgot about his teammates in a tough road loss-- a game the Hawks shoulkd have won by double-digits.

It was as if Joe wanted to get HIS points in the 4th at the expense of the team. Jamal had 21 by the end of the third quarter, and it seems Joe wanted to surpass Jamal by the end of the night...and he got his wish.

It was a little ironic in the end once Joe's selfishness sealed the Hawks' fate that the team had less than three seconds (at 98-95) and Jamal finally got his second shot attempt of the quarter, a very tough three point shot attempt at the buzzer.

Joe has to realize that Jamal isn't the enemy, and Joe has to be more content in getting the ASSIST and passing to the open guy not jacking up three-point shots in the corner with three people in your face or getting trapped along the baseline with an open Jamal and Bibby outside the three-point arc.

And Joe committing the foul on Salmons thirty to forty ft. away from the basket was puzzling. Frustration, anger, whatever it was..it isn't a good sign going forward vs. Milwaukee, a potential playoff opponent.

Joe needs to be called out for his selfishness.

Complete and utter BS.

Around the 3 min mark in the 3rd, the Hawks were up 74 - 62. By the 10 min mark in the 4th, the Hawks were clinging to a 76 - 73 lead. During that span, JJ had taken ONE SHOT and was 6 - 14 FG.

From the time he checked back in during the 4th quarter, till about the 2 min mark, JJ had made 7 OF 9 SHOTS ( and he made his first 5 in a row during a time in which the Bucks weren't missing ANYTHING.

His shotmaking kept us from getting blown out in that stretch.

JJ ended up scoring 21 points on 10 - 18 FG in that 2nd half . . and was 7 - 11 FG for 14 points in the 4th quarter alone.

Deceiving stat line my butt. That dude straight up BALLED in the 2nd half.

It's you crazy fans that want this Jamal vs JJ thing to be real. Jamal basically did the exact same thing JJ did in the 1st half . . . . when he goes 7 - 10 during a stretch in that game. But he's not called to task for being "selfish" . . . . only JJ is.

As much of a problem we've had scoring in the 4th quarter of some of these games recently, it's AMAZING that people would describe a RED HOT JJ as being a "ballhog". Like no other star player in the league has tried to literaly take over a game.

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Complete and utter BS.

Around the 3 min mark in the 3rd, the Hawks were up 74 - 62. By the 10 min mark in the 4th, the Hawks were clinging to a 76 - 73 lead. During that span, JJ had taken ONE SHOT and was 6 - 14 FG.

From the time he checked back in during the 4th quarter, till about the 2 min mark, JJ had made 7 OF 9 SHOTS ( and he made his first 5 in a row during a time in which the Bucks weren't missing ANYTHING.

His shotmaking kept us from getting blown out in that stretch.

JJ ended up scoring 21 points on 10 - 18 FG in that 2nd half . . and was 7 - 11 FG for 14 points in the 4th quarter alone.

Deceiving stat line my butt. That dude straight up BALLED in the 2nd half.

It's you crazy fans that want this Jamal vs JJ thing to be real. Jamal basically did the exact same thing JJ did in the 1st half . . . . when he goes 7 - 10 during a stretch in that game. But he's not called to task for being "selfish" . . . . only JJ is.

As much of a problem we've had scoring in the 4th quarter of some of these games recently, it's AMAZING that people would describe a RED HOT JJ as being a "ballhog". Like no other star player in the league has tried to literaly take over a game.

damn very very very good points my man! you should post this on it's own thread especially the part when you said you fans should be glad that somebody is scoring for us in the 4th quarter cause thats so true! i watch every hawks game i can and i see the struggling 4th quarters we seem to have at times! anyhow good reply my man! i look at this diffrent now.LOL

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Complete and utter BS.

Around the 3 min mark in the 3rd, the Hawks were up 74 - 62. By the 10 min mark in the 4th, the Hawks were clinging to a 76 - 73 lead. During that span, JJ had taken ONE SHOT and was 6 - 14 FG.

From the time he checked back in during the 4th quarter, till about the 2 min mark, JJ had made 7 OF 9 SHOTS ( and he made his first 5 in a row during a time in which the Bucks weren't missing ANYTHING.

His shotmaking kept us from getting blown out in that stretch.

JJ ended up scoring 21 points on 10 - 18 FG in that 2nd half . . and was 7 - 11 FG for 14 points in the 4th quarter alone.

Deceiving stat line my butt. That dude straight up BALLED in the 2nd half.

It's you crazy fans that want this Jamal vs JJ thing to be real. Jamal basically did the exact same thing JJ did in the 1st half . . . . when he goes 7 - 10 during a stretch in that game. But he's not called to task for being "selfish" . . . . only JJ is.

As much of a problem we've had scoring in the 4th quarter of some of these games recently, it's AMAZING that people would describe a RED HOT JJ as being a "ballhog". Like no other star player in the league has tried to literaly take over a game.

now you know that isnt true at all.

Crawford had 6 made fgs in the 2nd quarter and 2 of them was assisted and 1 was a steal and layup . The other 3 all came off pick and roll situations

In the 4th quarter JJ basically cleared out the side and held the ball for 15 seconds before making his move and then only passed if he got into trouble .

Al was 5-5

Jamal had Ridnour guarding him

Joe and I suspect Woody too got caught in up in Joe trying to match Salmons instead trying to win the game the way we got the lead

We didnt have not one assist in the 4th quarter and only had 4 in the second half after having 11 in the first half .

I dont have a pro0blem with Joe shooting but what he did tonight was hand the Bucks a blueprint to beating us.

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Complete and utter BS.

Around the 3 min mark in the 3rd, the Hawks were up 74 - 62. By the 10 min mark in the 4th, the Hawks were clinging to a 76 - 73 lead. During that span, JJ had taken ONE SHOT and was 6 - 14 FG.

From the time he checked back in during the 4th quarter, till about the 2 min mark, JJ had made 7 OF 9 SHOTS ( and he made his first 5 in a row during a time in which the Bucks weren't missing ANYTHING.

His shotmaking kept us from getting blown out in that stretch.

JJ ended up scoring 21 points on 10 - 18 FG in that 2nd half . . and was 7 - 11 FG for 14 points in the 4th quarter alone.

Deceiving stat line my butt. That dude straight up BALLED in the 2nd half.

It's you crazy fans that want this Jamal vs JJ thing to be real. Jamal basically did the exact same thing JJ did in the 1st half . . . . when he goes 7 - 10 during a stretch in that game. But he's not called to task for being "selfish" . . . . only JJ is.

As much of a problem we've had scoring in the 4th quarter of some of these games recently, it's AMAZING that people would describe a RED HOT JJ as being a "ballhog". Like no other star player in the league has tried to literaly take over a game.

This.

JJ found a hole in the defense and took advantage of it for as long as they were dumb enough to let him. Sadly, they just gained a momentum that we could not stop in time. The end.

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now you know that isnt true at all.

Crawford had 6 made fgs in the 2nd quarter and 2 of them was assisted and 1 was a steal and layup . The other 3 all came off pick and roll situations

In the 4th quarter JJ basically cleared out the side and held the ball for 15 seconds before making his move and then only passed if he got into trouble .

Al was 5-5

Jamal had Ridnour guarding him

Joe and I suspect Woody too got caught in up in Joe trying to match Salmons instead trying to win the game the way we got the lead

We didnt have not one assist in the 4th quarter and only had 4 in the second half after having 11 in the first half .

I dont have a pro0blem with Joe shooting but what he did tonight was hand the Bucks a blueprint to beating us.

How did he hand them a blueprint to beating us, when they virtually couldn't stop him? We lost that game because they went 14 - 18 FG from the 3:21 mark in the 3rd to the 6:52 mark in the 4th. They got RED HOT and outscored us 34 - 19 in that stretch alone. ( JJ had 12 of those 19 points by the way, scoring 10 in a row in the 4th )

And regardless of how Crawford got his shots, the fact that he shot the ball at just as high of a rate that JJ did. He was efficient too.

So your beef isn't that JJ wasn't an efficient 7 - 11 FG in the 4th . . .you have a problem with him making 7 FGs from zero assists? You're mad at Woody and JJ for having JJ do what all the other good ISO players in this league do, and go ISO and score at will on their man when they have major problems stopping him?

REALLY????

Does it matter how we scored the basketball, as long as we scored, and was efficient in doing so? The problem tonight ( as with all of these lost leads ) was on the defensive end, not the offensive end.

FYI . . . we ran ISO-JJ all throughout the 4th quarter and OT in the Spurs game. But the Spurs doubled JJ almost on every possession, to prevent what he did tonight. And with JJ having a bad shooting night vs the Spurs ( although he picked it up during the 4th and OT ), he passed to open teammates.

But tonight, it was JJ who was on, and took advantage of the single coverage he was getting to score the basketball. He was effective scoring the basketball, so he kept trying to do it.

Both methods of scoring were efficient in both games. The difference is that defense was played in the Spurs game, and it wasn't against the Bucks.

By the way, here was the Hawks shooting in the 4th quarter.

JJ: 7 - 11

Rest of the team: 3 - 9

And yet you have a problem with JJ's selfishness? Please.

Edited by northcyde
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now you know that isnt true at all.

Crawford had 6 made fgs in the 2nd quarter and 2 of them was assisted and 1 was a steal and layup . The other 3 all came off pick and roll situations

In the 4th quarter JJ basically cleared out the side and held the ball for 15 seconds before making his move and then only passed if he got into trouble .

Al was 5-5

Jamal had Ridnour guarding him

Joe and I suspect Woody too got caught in up in Joe trying to match Salmons instead trying to win the game the way we got the lead

We didnt have not one assist in the 4th quarter and only had 4 in the second half after having 11 in the first half .

I dont have a pro0blem with Joe shooting but what he did tonight was hand the Bucks a blueprint to beating us.

The ball movement stopped in the 4th quarter, and JJ stopped trusting his teammates. Sunday's game vs. the Spurs was a great example when the team share the ball. JJ is the leader of this team, but he took several out of rhythm BAD SHOTS during that 4th quarter.

JJ is not a natural PG, but he has to relaize that Jamal ISN'T THE ENEMY and BIG AL has shown he is ready to be a go-to offensive guy down the stretch in games as evidenced by his All-Star play this year and most recently against San Antonio and Toronto.

Al Horford had a tweet that said .."Man we still haven't figured it out... "

JJ lost his head in the 4th quarter, and he has to do some self-correction... BUT NOT TO THE POINT HE IS A NO-SHOW AGAINST ORLANDO ON WEDNESDAY...

Al Horford played big vs the Spurs along with the much criticized Marvin, but if these guys are open, then JJ must have enough awareness and unselfishness to give them the ball.

JJ should be re-signed and has been a durable player for the Hawks... however for the Hawks to get to the next level JJ has to be able trust his teammates in these late game situations and don't get sucked in to trying to OUTSCORE JAMAL or OUTDO John Salmons....AT THE SAME TIME...

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How did he hand them a blueprint to beating us, when they virtually couldn't stop him? We lost that game because they went 14 - 18 FG from the 3:21 mark in the 3rd to the 6:52 mark in the 4th. They got RED HOT and outscored us 34 - 19 in that stretch alone. ( JJ had 12 of those 19 points by the way, scoring 10 in a row in the 4th )

The blueprint is very simple . Attack JJ on the defensive end and he doesnt lock in defensively he will try to outscore his opponent . His attempt to try and take over a game on the second night of the back to back when we actually were playing well after playing so many minutes on the first night was silly at best .

What you always ignore is the fact that while JJ can take over a game in the 4th quarter occasional he is not Kobe he can not do it every game and better yet his success rate ON THEW ROAD is so low that I dont even see why anyone would be arguing for what he did tonight because it has rarely worked on the road .

When we win a road game its because we share the ball and play as a team PERIOD whenever JJ has tried to play hero 9 out of 10 times its a loss.

And regardless of how Crawford got his shots, the fact that he shot the ball at just as high of a rate that JJ did. He was efficient too.

So your beef isn't that JJ wasn't an efficient 7 - 11 FG in the 4th . . .you have a problem with him making 7 FGs from zero assists? You're mad at Woody and JJ for having JJ do what all the other good ISO players in this league do, and go ISO and score at will on their man when they have major problems stopping him?

My problem is with Woody and JJ but JJ is the leader on the floor and regardless of what Woody says if he makes good decisions down the stretch win or loss it would be better for the team . I have a problem with him making 7 field goals while milking 15-20 seconds off the clock each time while all his teammates just stand there and watch. Because then when he gets into trouble and he always gets into trouble down the stretch no one is expecting the ball and we always have one or two plays where someone is bailing out JJ with a long off balanced shot .

But does it matter if you score at will if your man also scores at will ? Stop Salmon for one or two possessions and we win this game going away. So what do you think is easier to ? stop journeyman John Salmons or never miss a shot going 1 on 5 ?

REALLY????

Does it matter how we scored the basketball, as long as we scored, and was efficient in doing so? The problem tonight ( as with all of these lost leads ) was on the defensive end, not the offensive end.

Of course it does tonight it happened to be starting with the opposing sg Josh Salmon and last night it was Manu Ginobili as history has shown the issue begins with JJ thinking he can outscore these guys instead of trying to slow them down . Every great player after a while realizes what they must do for there team to consistently win when they get to this junction in there teams development. . Its not just not happening with Joe now hes by no means a bad player but how many times can one guy go 1 on 5 in the 4th quarters of games and his team still lose before he decides to try something different ?

FYI . . . we ran ISO-JJ all throughout the 4th quarter and OT in the Spurs game. But the Spurs doubled JJ almost on every possession, to prevent what he did tonight. And with JJ having a bad shooting night vs the Spurs ( although he picked it up during the 4th and OT ), he passed to open teammates.

But tonight, it was JJ who was on, and took advantage of the single coverage he was getting to score the basketball. He was effective scoring the basketball, so he kept trying to do it.

actually they did not double team him that much in the 4th or OT he just gave up the ball. he did not come to halfcourt get it with 17 on the clock and wave everyone off and everyone made plays . They got to touch the ball and was active and hustling even though they didnt always make there shots . The threat was always there and it kept the Spurs honest . Tonight Skiles played Woody and Joe like a piano down the stretch

.

Both methods of scoring were efficient in both games. The difference is that defense was played in the Spurs game, and it wasn't against the Bucks.

By the way, here was the Hawks shooting in the 4th quarter.

JJ: 7 - 11

Rest of the team: 3 - 9

And yet you have a problem with JJ's selfishness? Please.

the difference in the two games was one game he passed the ball and we played together and in tonights game we did it for one half

He took all the shots and did a nice job of padding his stat line but then missed his last 2 shots as well as a wide open Al under the basket .

Its amazing that we keep losing these types of games and everytime you are here to pat Joe on the back for us losing the same way everytime . Maybe it wouldnt be such a big deal if sometimes he acted as though he wasnt a freshmen star on a one year ride on a ncaa team.

But hey Joe got his..... right ?

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Complete and utter BS.

Around the 3 min mark in the 3rd, the Hawks were up 74 - 62. By the 10 min mark in the 4th, the Hawks were clinging to a 76 - 73 lead. During that span, JJ had taken ONE SHOT and was 6 - 14 FG.

From the time he checked back in during the 4th quarter, till about the 2 min mark, JJ had made 7 OF 9 SHOTS ( and he made his first 5 in a row during a time in which the Bucks weren't missing ANYTHING.

His shotmaking kept us from getting blown out in that stretch.

JJ ended up scoring 21 points on 10 - 18 FG in that 2nd half . . and was 7 - 11 FG for 14 points in the 4th quarter alone.

Deceiving stat line my butt. That dude straight up BALLED in the 2nd half.

Seriously i have to wonder what game some people are watching.

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JJ is in a no-win situation with this fanbase. If He doesn't take over he's a "reluctant superstar" and when he does take over he's selfish. Other than that bad foul I say the man played his *ss off.

Fickle fans.

Edited by NineOhTheRino
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JJ is in a no-win situation with this fanbase. If He doesn't take over he's a "reluctant superstar" and when he does take over he's selfish. Other than that bad foul I say the man played his *ss off.

Fickle fans.

+1. Haters find a negative angle no matter how their disfavored player does in a particular game.

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The stat line is somehwat deceiving with Joe Johnson's scoring line, but the Hawks were in control of the game with Johnson only have 13 points through three quarters. Joe Johnson is the pseudo point guard when Bibby is on the bench, but he totally forgot about his teammates in a tough road loss-- a game the Hawks shoulkd have won by double-digits.

It was as if Joe wanted to get HIS points in the 4th at the expense of the team. Jamal had 21 by the end of the third quarter, and it seems Joe wanted to surpass Jamal by the end of the night...and he got his wish.

It was a little ironic in the end once Joe's selfishness sealed the Hawks' fate that the team had less than three seconds (at 98-95) and Jamal finally got his second shot attempt of the quarter, a very tough three point shot attempt at the buzzer.

Joe has to realize that Jamal isn't the enemy, and Joe has to be more content in getting the ASSIST and passing to the open guy not jacking up three-point shots in the corner with three people in your face or getting trapped along the baseline with an open Jamal and Bibby outside the three-point arc.

And Joe committing the foul on Salmons thirty to forty ft. away from the basket was puzzling. Frustration, anger, whatever it was..it isn't a good sign going forward vs. Milwaukee, a potential playoff opponent.

Joe needs to be called out for his selfishness.

Jamal and Al are the only other reliable shooters on the team. Al's jumper is money in the bank and of course Jamal.

The time he passed it to Josh lead to painful results. Honestly, I'd rather see him force a shot in double coverage than to pass it to an open Josh Smith for the mid-long range jumper. Joe knows by now that Bibby is no longer a reliable shooter. He used to pass the ball to Bibby more... But if guys can't convert, he isn't going to pass them the ball.

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Complete and utter BS.

Around the 3 min mark in the 3rd, the Hawks were up 74 - 62. By the 10 min mark in the 4th, the Hawks were clinging to a 76 - 73 lead. During that span, JJ had taken ONE SHOT and was 6 - 14 FG.

From the time he checked back in during the 4th quarter, till about the 2 min mark, JJ had made 7 OF 9 SHOTS ( and he made his first 5 in a row during a time in which the Bucks weren't missing ANYTHING.

His shotmaking kept us from getting blown out in that stretch.

JJ ended up scoring 21 points on 10 - 18 FG in that 2nd half . . and was 7 - 11 FG for 14 points in the 4th quarter alone.

Deceiving stat line my butt. That dude straight up BALLED in the 2nd half.

It's you crazy fans that want this Jamal vs JJ thing to be real. Jamal basically did the exact same thing JJ did in the 1st half . . . . when he goes 7 - 10 during a stretch in that game. But he's not called to task for being "selfish" . . . . only JJ is.

As much of a problem we've had scoring in the 4th quarter of some of these games recently, it's AMAZING that people would describe a RED HOT JJ as being a "ballhog". Like no other star player in the league has tried to literaly take over a game.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Joe played a good offensive game.

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JJ is in a no-win situation with this fanbase. If He doesn't take over he's a "reluctant superstar" and when he does take over he's selfish. Other than that bad foul I say the man played his *ss off.

Fickle fans.

I've been mostly happy with his offensive play this year. He has had bouts of selfish play, but so do all first options. Too bad Bibby hasn't held up his end of the bargain this year.

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Complete and utter BS.

Around the 3 min mark in the 3rd, the Hawks were up 74 - 62. By the 10 min mark in the 4th, the Hawks were clinging to a 76 - 73 lead. During that span, JJ had taken ONE SHOT and was 6 - 14 FG.

From the time he checked back in during the 4th quarter, till about the 2 min mark, JJ had made 7 OF 9 SHOTS ( and he made his first 5 in a row during a time in which the Bucks weren't missing ANYTHING.

His shotmaking kept us from getting blown out in that stretch.

JJ ended up scoring 21 points on 10 - 18 FG in that 2nd half . . and was 7 - 11 FG for 14 points in the 4th quarter alone.

Deceiving stat line my butt. That dude straight up BALLED in the 2nd half.

It's you crazy fans that want this Jamal vs JJ thing to be real. Jamal basically did the exact same thing JJ did in the 1st half . . . . when he goes 7 - 10 during a stretch in that game. But he's not called to task for being "selfish" . . . . only JJ is.

As much of a problem we've had scoring in the 4th quarter of some of these games recently, it's AMAZING that people would describe a RED HOT JJ as being a "ballhog". Like no other star player in the league has tried to literaly take over a game.

Blam!!!

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Jamal and Al are the only other reliable shooters on the team. Al's jumper is money in the bank and of course Jamal.

The time he passed it to Josh lead to painful results. Honestly, I'd rather see him force a shot in double coverage than to pass it to an open Josh Smith for the mid-long range jumper. Joe knows by now that Bibby is no longer a reliable shooter. He used to pass the ball to Bibby more... But if guys can't convert, he isn't going to pass them the ball.

Bibby's play has clearly declined and so has his playing time. However, he is still a reliable shooter from the outside.

Josh has been shooting more outside jumpers lately which is a little disturbing. Josh needs to be UNDER THE BASKET getting the rebound or blocking a shot.

JJ has to trust his teammates for the WHOLE GAME, not parts of the game, the WHOLE GAME... After a great team victory against the Spurs, this Milwaukee road game was an opportunity to GROW AS A TEAM, and for JJ to continue his growth as a player...

Even though Josh has his moments in making great plays, passing the ball and stuffing the stat sheet... Josh sometimes revert back to his out-of-control on-court behavior when things don't go his way. Joe is like this at times, not as extreme as JOSH SMITH, but the excessive ball-hogging is disruptive and that is a symptom of not knowing what to do when pressured and not trusting his teammates. JJ HAS TO MAKE HIS TEAMMATES BETTER--ALL THE TIME, NOT SOME OF THE TIME...

Joe is always the team's FIRST OPTION, but he needs to have the faith and discipline to trust his teammates and once he DISPLAYS THAT TRUST, it will become contagious among his teammates.... Big Al said in his tweet "Man we still haven't figured it out..." because it seems the Hawks revert back to bad habits when pressured...ESPECIALLY ON THE ROAD

I am a Marvin skeptic, but if he is on the floor and open or fighting to get open, JJ should throw him the ball--not hold it for 15 seconds.. Al has made great strides and has earned the 4th quarter touches down the stretch. The Spurs first option is TIM DUNCAN, but Tim is always thinking how to get his team involved at the same time, and he isn't even a point guard.

JJ needs to be more like the "Big Fundamental", because not only that it helps JJ become an even more special player, but helps his teammates grow as younger players...which means putting away teams LIKE DALLAS AT HOME and MILWAUKEE ON THE ROAD would have been more easier...

Edited by hawks21
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I think we just need to accept the Bucks loss. They are a hot team and were hitting some tough jumpers during that stretch in the 4th, not much you can do about that.

As was stated, JJ was the whole reason we even managed to keep it close. Sure, there were a couple times (especially his last shot) where he should have passed but we probably wouldn't even have been in that situation without his play.

Props to JJ to help carry us and keep the game close until the end!

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