It's time to trade ALL of the core players and start over.

[Plainview1981]

as much as i'd like to give hots a TO right now I really can't justify it.

A troll is a troll and Hots could word his posts differently but the fact of the matter is the same.

When they said the Hawks hadn't drafted a player who had made the all-star team before Al Horford since Kevin Willis it all sank in. WOW. Since Kevin Willis.

I think Hots' original post should be ignored though we have some good pieces but as a Woody supporter I just don't think they are being used efficiently.

Bye bye Woody I think you're gone. That is assuming ownership is willing to pay a retread coach like fratello as opposed to going bargain basement for another assistant.

HIRE BILL LAMBEER AND EVERYTHING WILL TAKE CARE OF ITSELF!

My post isn't meant to troll. I'm not the most sociable guy and so my posts often come out harsher than I intend. I wish I was better at communication, but I'm not. That's the way it is.

This team is basically the same as the Memphis team that featured Pau Gasol.

[Guest]

My post isn't meant to troll. I'm not the most sociable guy and so my posts often come out harsher than I intend. I wish I was better at communication, but I'm not. That's the way it is.

This team is basically the same as the Memphis team that featured Pau Gasol.

I prefer to have this team as exasperating as they are more than a 13 win team when most of the games were unwatchable...If they as you say "blow it up and start over" people are still gonna complain, so I prefer to complain about this team with a winning record and a shot at the playoffs every year than going through another rebuild...that's just me. Pieces need to be added and some subtracted but to blow it all up would not be smart.

[Plainview1981]

Quit crying.

Ya'll kill me with the damn crybaby act every single time we lose a game.

We lost on the road to an NBA Finals contender . . in their building. We battled this team toe to toe, until about the 7 min mark, when they pulled away. If you ask me, we definitely made progress. And if JJ or Jamal would've made a few shots in the 4th, maybe we win or lose by 6 or less points.

Everybody on this board knows that they're better than us. So why all of the crying?

LOL @ blow up the team. And then what? Do an NBA 2K10 like trade that you can't do in the real world? Wish on a star for a superstar?

We're down 2 - 0 . . . now they have to come to Philips. Let's see if we can win 2 games, and make it a series again.

Two well-coached teams ( Utah and San Antonio ) are also down 2 - 0. And the only reason Boston isn't down 2 - 0, is because of Lebron's elbow.

So let's see if we can play 2 inspired games at home, and tie this series up 2 - 2.

Orlando did what they're supposed to do. Now it's time for us to do what we're supposed to do.

If this team isn't healthy all year they don't win 50 games. They win about as many as they did last season. Maybe a win or 2 more.

This team often had mediocre 4th periods where you would say "If JJ or Crawford would have made a few more shots".

If if if if if

Why keep a team together that can't win in the playoffs? No coach in the history of the game could make this current Hawks team a finals team. This team isn't talented enough to get there and they're capped out. Let's say... Let's say they S&T traded JJ for Chris Paul and traded Josh Smith for some help at center.... You would have this team:

Chris Paul

Jamal Crawford

Marvin Williams

Al Horford

?????????

No depth

What center are you going to get that will put that team over Orlando? You still have mediocre Marvin starting and Jamal Crawford is a poor defender and outside of scoring, he can't do anything with any regularity. Weho is going to trade for Bibby who is washed up and near through? Remember, he dropped 6PPG this year... How bad will he be next year?

Edited May 7, 2010 by Hotlanta1981

[Plainview1981]

And remember this... Al is going to want a big extension and the owners can only afford to pay so much. This team is trying to work as close to the salary cap as possible.

[mrhonline]

I prefer to have this team as exasperating as they are more than a 13 win team when most of the games were unwatchable...If they as you say "blow it up and start over" people are still gonna complain, so I prefer to complain about this team with a winning record and a shot at the playoffs every year than going through another rebuild...that's just me. Pieces need to be added and some subtracted but to blow it all up would not be smart.

The problem with this philosophy in 2010 is that the Hawks' best offensive player is a FA who will command way more money than he's worth to the Hawks. If Atlanta loses Joe, what then?

It will be an interesting month of July.

[Guest]

And remember this... Al is going to want a big extension and the owners can only afford to pay so much. This team is trying to work as close to the salary cap as possible.

What is the plan that you would propose for the start over..who do we keep, who do we let walk, who do we trade?

[JTB]

I prefer to have this team as exasperating as they are more than a 13 win team when most of the games were unwatchable...If they as you say "blow it up and start over" people are still gonna complain, so I prefer to complain about this team with a winning record and a shot at the playoffs every year than going through another rebuild...that's just me. Pieces need to be added and some subtracted but to blow it all up would not be smart.

agree

[Guest]

The problem with this philosophy in 2010 is that the Hawks' best offensive player is a FA who will command way more money than he's worth to the Hawks. If Atlanta loses Joe, what then?

It will be an interesting month of July.

True, the Hawks may not have a choice in letting Joe walk if he wants too much, but Hotlanta's suggestion was to get rid of the "core" players and start over. If we lose Joe, we will probably have a different coach as well...would that be considered starting over.

[Plainview1981]

What is the plan that you would propose for the start over..who do we keep, who do we let walk, who do we trade?

The only core players I consider keeping are Al Horford and Crawford. And even though JC wouldnt be making as much in an extension.

Josh Smith is too flawed. As a PF his post up game isn't good enough, and either is his jump shot. His man on man defense isn't anything outstanding either. As a SF he can't shoot ,and I'm not sure he is quick enough to keep up with quality SF's. His FT shooting is embarrassing and he is prone to too many metal errors and is probably too big of a headcase also. Really, Josh Smith is a better version of Darius Miles. Josh is still a young guy and there will be teams/management that think they can rid themselves of all his big flaws and so the Hawks could probably get some young talent or draft picks in return.

Trade JJ if you can find some young player with potential or draft picks. If NO is really to get rid of Chris Paul that could be an option, but it's a gamble with his injury problems now. If it's by trade or draft this team will have to find away to get someone better than Joe Johnson. A team where he isn't the number one guy he is a 15=17PPG scorer only. I don't know if they can get rid of Bibby's contract. Heck, they might have to trade he and Marvin and lose out on the deal talent wise.

I don't think this team can be tweaked into a title contender. You got bad contracts and an ownership that doesn't want to spend money. It's tough to win a title while being cash strapped. But I don't think they will get there with this current core. This team had too missed many big picks in the drafts this decade. Too many.

Edited May 7, 2010 by Hotlanta1981

[Plainview1981]

The last 5 games joe has shot:

6-16

8-24

4-14

4-11

5-16

Hit the road jack!

[jezmund]

That sounds nice in theory but I am not sure how you can accomplish it without having the rest of the roster made-up of NBDL level talent.

You are right, it is nice in 'theory'. As far as the NBDL comment, I agree to an extent but our bench is really only 3 deep right now with Jamal/Mo/Zaza and Mo is pushing it.

Here are my pipe dream circumstances:

Marvin/Zaza/Teague for Harris/Dooling

Bosh to Atlanta, Smith to Toronto, Bibby to a 3rd team who sends a player (or two) to Toronto.

After this we are sitting at... (Evans can opt out I believe so I'm assuming he does)

Harris / Crawford

-- / Crawford / Dooling

-- / --

Bosh / --

Horford / --

Here we have the option of obviously resigning Joe if that is something he wants or maybe he'd work with us for a sign-and-trade where we'd get a player or two in return that would give depth. Joe's price would be the deciding factor here. If he was willing to come back for about the $60M over 4 we initially offered (maybe add on a fifth year). Probably not likely. Any chance of grabbing Ray Allen for a 2 or 3 year deal at the MLE? If not Allen, maybe Salmons. That would enable us to make a reasonable offer to bring Childress back if so.

My 1st round pick is Dominique Jones (USF) as Crawford's combo guard replacement if he leaves in 2011.

Harris / Salmons / Childress / Bosh / Horford

Hmmm... Interesting at least with a good coach? Maybe, maybe not.

Edited May 7, 2010 by jezmund

[TheNorthCydeRises]

If this team isn't healthy all year they don't win 50 games. They win about as many as they did last season. Maybe a win or 2 more.

This team often had mediocre 4th periods where you would say "If JJ or Crawford would have made a few more shots".

If if if if if

Why keep a team together that can't win in the playoffs? No coach in the history of the game could make this current Hawks team a finals team. This team isn't talented enough to get there and they're capped out. Let's say... Let's say they S&T traded JJ for Chris Paul and traded Josh Smith for some help at center.... You would have this team:

Chris Paul

Jamal Crawford

Marvin Williams

Al Horford

?????????

No depth

What center are you going to get that will put that team over Orlando? You still have mediocre Marvin starting and Jamal Crawford is a poor defender and outside of scoring, he can't do anything with any regularity. Weho is going to trade for Bibby who is washed up and near through? Remember, he dropped 6PPG this year... How bad will he be next year?

You're right. No depth.

And if it's anything you do in the offseason, it's try to add some depth to this squad. And we'll have a chance to do that via the draft, and possibly with the MLE. We easily have the worst bench out of all the remaining playoff teams. So instead of blowing up the team, you add to the bench.

But seriously. What center is out there that will help us against Dwight Howard . . . who is now the best center in basketball. Is there ANY CENTER that will put us over the top of Orlando?

What . . . you gonna trade Smoove for Chris Kaman or Andres Biendrins? You gonna coax the Lakers out of Andrew Bynum? You gonna tell Memphis to give us Marc Gasol?

And even in a ridiculous sign and trade like JJ for Paul, the Hornets would never do that.

If you want to get rid of the coach, and see if a different voice can get us to the next level . . . fine.

But blowng up the team right now isn't going to get us any closer to winning anything. You'd just be on here complaining next year, talking about why the Hawks are only a .500 team, fighting to hold off Charlotte for the 8th spot.

[swanlee]

I don't think this team needs to be completely blown up. JJ needs to be a sign and trade he needs to GTFO of this team now. Woody needs to be fired. Smoove needs a serious sit down with the new coach and he needs to buy into the system and the new coach needs to get him to play less sloppy. If he can do that and mature a little bit more smoove, horford are who we build around. We also need to get everyone playing at their proper positions and get some big 7FT center in here to start.

If we can do that we are in the finals within 2 years.

[GST]

If JJ walks, then the Hawks get stuck in mediocrity where they are not contenders, and don't get high draft picks. When a team becomes mediocre, you are just wasting time if you do not blow it up and start the rebuild cycle.

[Plainview1981]

You're right. No depth.

And if it's anything you do in the offseason, it's try to add some depth to this squad. And we'll have a chance to do that via the draft, and possibly with the MLE. We easily have the worst bench out of all the remaining playoff teams. So instead of blowing up the team, you add to the bench.

Depth ain't going to be anywhere near enough. And it's not going to improve Joe's lousy performances. Face it, he is NOT cut out to be a number 1 guy. Not with this team or any other. He is a robin.

But seriously. What center is out there that will help us against Dwight Howard . . . who is now the best center in basketball. Is there ANY CENTER that will put us over the top of Orlando?

I don't know if you misread my post or what. There isn't a center that can put the Hawks over the top. They got no way of making this team compete for a finals appearance right now. So why keep the team together? To keep getting ran out of the playoffs easily like Lenny's teams did? Orlando is going to own the east for at least a few years. So the Hawks might as well get busy trying to rebuild this team into a better built team. It didn't take the Thunder long to become a 50+ win team. The rebuilding process doesn't have to take 7 years if you have people that know what they're doing.

And even in a ridiculous sign and trade like JJ for Paul, the Hornets would never do that.

Just using it as an example basically. This team needs a lot better player than Joe to battle with Orlando. The hawks are getting that player with anyone on this roster and they don't have the cash to sign anyone. So if they can't get someone better by trades or signing... How is this team going to battle Orlando? Because they're sure as hell not going to beat Orlando with JJ trying to be the man. His last 5 playoff games now he has delivered horrific shooting performances in each one and he wasn't a great playoff player last year either.

If you want to get rid of the coach, and see if a different voice can get us to the next level . . . fine.

That's not going to be enough. Al will stilll be an undersized center next year and Josh Smith will still be a tweener next year. A new coach will help, but only so much.

But blowng up the team right now isn't going to get us any closer to winning anything. You'd just be on here complaining next year, talking about why the Hawks are only a .500 team, fighting to hold off Charlotte for the 8th spot.

Howard is going to be owning this team for years. They can't stop him and they can't contain him. Orlando will spend money and keep putting players around Howard while these nickel and dime owners will still be sticking to the salary cap. This is the same damn movie that we saw in the 90's. Billy Knight screwed this run up when he kept making mistake after mistake.

[swanlee]

If JJ walks, then the Hawks get stuck in mediocrity where they are not contenders, and don't get high draft picks. When a team becomes mediocre, you are just wasting time if you do not blow it up and start the rebuild cycle.

If JJ stays then we are saddled with a contract that does not allow to do anything and we are stuck with this mediocrity. JJ's contract will handicap this team and we already know he is not a superstar player that can elevate us past more talented teams.

[Buzzard]

I almost agree with you here Hots. We need at LEAST two go to guys to compete with teams like Orlando, Cleveland, and LA. Right now all we have is JJ. If we can sign him and make a blockbuster trade by combining two of our larger contracts for one player, we WOULD then have a true core to build around. Lose JJ and we are back at square one.

Edited May 7, 2010 by Buzzard

[GST]

If JJ stays then we are saddled with a contract that does not allow to do anything and we are stuck with this mediocrity. JJ's contract will handicap this team and we already know he is not a superstar player that can elevate us past more talented teams.

I agree. Because JJ is not quite a "lead dog" player, resigning him just gets us a higher level of mediocrity. Our only hope for a championship with this current bunch was to emulate what Detroit did (5 very good starters, no true superstar), but we never got the PG nor head coach we needed. Time to rebuild.

[NineOhTheRino]

I would love to see this team (Joe esp.) play with a legitimate PG before any changes are made. Make moves in the off season to get the Darren Collison kid from the Hornets and try this thing once more.

[Buzzard]

I agree. Because JJ is not quite a "lead dog" player, resigning him just gets us a higher level of mediocrity. Our only hope for a championship with this current bunch was to emulate what Detroit did (5 very good starters, no true superstar), but we never got the PG nor head coach we needed. Time to rebuild.

Detroit had two all-star go to guys in Rip and Chauncey. Almost 20ppg from both of them. JJ has no go to scorer to help him; and as much as I like Craw he is not Rip or Chauncey in their primes.