Why dont Star Players ever want or talk about playing for any of the ATL Franchises?

[PlayaPat420]

No one wants to work where they play... and i'm not talking about playing basketball. That's my honest opinion.

[Diesel]

You know what though man...

I agree that there is a media bias against Atlanta...seen it all too much in my 25 or so years watching the Hawks. No need to go into that. But, I believe it's just disregard because we haven't done anything to become relevant. Worse yet, we have made some really negative press for ourselves:

Fail fans that had Pacer fans filling up our home court booing the "boring" home team.

A ridiculously fail playoff guarantee

TWO fail ownership battles

A fail playoff series that was the worst sweep in NBA History.

Failsaiah Rider

COUNTLESS fail draft picks

*sigh* listen at me though. I sound like Hots. I don't know what it is, but for some reason...I'm REALLY just disinterested in the Hawks this year.

It'd make sense though that this would be the year we actually do something. I guess I'm just restless. I'm ready for a spark right now.

Anyone else just REALLY wanting this group to make a blockbuster / drop a bombshell?

I think every franchise disappoints it's fanbase at some time or another. Even the Lakers. However, we have never had the fanbase that was resilient. Our fanbase is easily swayed. And then, we have a local media that's more like Hots than like Grey Mule or AHF. I believe in the power of good journalism. I think the fact that there's only one paper and it is an anti Atlanta Sports kind of paper makes for the main reason why we don't attract. Look at baseball. Bobby Cox is definitely HOF, however, you have Atlanta writers that question that. 14 pennants is crazy.. 14 in a row is unheard of, however, they look at his 14 pennants and say, he only won the big one once. He's no HOFer... Excuse me... you have teams that have one the big one that have gone on the next year to not be in the conversation ever (hello Florida). However, there's very little positive in Atlanta writing. Even us resigning Joe was met with a lot of questions. Joe is a high calibre player. He is what keeps the Hawks relevant. When we resigned him, that was a moment to celebrate... not question.

And Atlanta Sports talk radio is ten time worse. Where is the positive?

So if I'm a player, I'm seeing nothing but negative coming out of Atlanta, I probably don't want to play there.

[BusBoyIsBack]

Its simply a money thing !

The Falcons should not be on your list though. Arthur Blank is in a different class from the other owners. The Braves are turning into buyers too.

Well Shaq didn't come here because he wants to get a ring and thinks Boston is in better shape than we are.

Im fine with that. He wasn't a good fit for LD's offense anyway probably.

Even though we could really use him against Dwight.

Perhaps now that we aren't switching on defense we won't get destroyed on the kickout 3 nearly as much

[OGRat]

I think every franchise disappoints it's fanbase at some time or another. Even the Lakers. However, we have never had the fanbase that was resilient. Our fanbase is easily swayed. And then, we have a local media that's more like Hots than like Grey Mule or AHF. I believe in the power of good journalism. I think the fact that there's only one paper and it is an anti Atlanta Sports kind of paper makes for the main reason why we don't attract. Look at baseball. Bobby Cox is definitely HOF, however, you have Atlanta writers that question that. 14 pennants is crazy.. 14 in a row is unheard of, however, they look at his 14 pennants and say, he only won the big one once. He's no HOFer... Excuse me... you have teams that have one the big one that have gone on the next year to not be in the conversation ever (hello Florida). However, there's very little positive in Atlanta writing. Even us resigning Joe was met with a lot of questions. Joe is a high calibre player. He is what keeps the Hawks relevant. When we resigned him, that was a moment to celebrate... not question.

And Atlanta Sports talk radio is ten time worse. Where is the positive?

So if I'm a player, I'm seeing nothing but negative coming out of Atlanta, I probably don't want to play there.

Not sure I buy the media bias argument. NY media is notoriously brutal yet you still have players looking to play there.

[Dsinner]

Many players, ex and current, already live here. Black stars, music and sports, LOVE living in Atlanta. Problem is ownership, period. It's says a lot when a player already makes his home here and still doesn't consider ATL's teams.

[Wretch]

Many players, ex and current, already live here. Black stars, music and sports, LOVE living in Atlanta. Problem is ownership, period. It's says a lot when a player already makes his home here and still doesn't consider ATL's teams.

Bang. Getting to the top starts right here with changing the perception of this team. I'm sure we're respected as a talented club, but other than that...we have never been relevant in any conversations regarding major FA moves or trades where the players have any sort of input.

[Diesel]

Not sure I buy the media bias argument. NY media is notoriously brutal yet you still have players looking to play there.

NY Media has negativity because NY fans are so loyal. You ever wonder how NY Knicks keep sellouts and season tickholders buying those high dollar tickets? Moreover, not every paper in NY spews negativity. IN Atlanta, we have 1 paper. It spews negativity.

Many players, ex and current, already live here. Black stars, music and sports, LOVE living in Atlanta. Problem is ownership, period. It's says a lot when a player already makes his home here and still doesn't consider ATL's teams.

Can't blame it on the ownerships....

Think:

Taylor Smith, Ted Turner, AOL, Arthur Blank, ASG, the woman who owns the basketball team.

Pick your poison. Which owner has the Atlanta fans ever supported?

Ever?

At the most, a new owner may feel the love for 1 or 2 seasons like Blank did but then after that, they have to make deals to keep the seats filled. AOL had to guarantee playoffs and still didn't get sellouts.

[bird_dirt]

I simply think it's more of a big market bias rather than an anti-atlanta thing. every player says they want to play for ny, la, boston and maybe chicago.

how often do you ever hear of the "BIG" players wanting to go to seattle/okc, houston, san antonio, utah, toronto, portland, minny, milwaukee, indy, sactown, golden state, memphis, washington, charolette? the only way for a team to gain any kind of cred from players as a "desired destination" other than being in the MAJOR markets is to have played in the finals within the past couple years. those major markets are the only guaranteed areas that will bring in the money to pay big players whether they have a good season or bad. turn in 3 poor to below average seasons in any other market and find out how much the local economy will cover bloated contracts and a payroll over the luxury tax.

we are not alone.

Edited September 23, 2010 by bird_dirt

[Dejay]

It starts with leadership at the top. You have a GM who's pretty much handcuffed by an ownership group who nickel and dimes just about everything. The Notorious A.S.G. reminds me of that commercial where a businessman takes some clients out to dinner, gets the bill, tells them to go to the car while he takes care of it, only to later run out of the restaurant, hop in the car, and orders the guy to drive off before the waiter catches him. What superstar you know of wants to spend the prime of his career with that kind of backdrop?

That's explains why JJ had all the leverage in the world once contract time came around to demand a max deal while others were scaling back. When it isn't the owners suing each other or crying about wanting to stay below the luxury tax so they can continue getting those escrow payments, they're selling off draft picks for $$$ and giving away 'assets' like Childress for second-rounders who will likely never wear a Hawk uniform. Even when $$$ isn't an issue, they place imcompetent folks in charge (see Knight, William or Babcock, Peter). You tell me how many more years we'll be hearing about the Hawks passing over CP3, Roy, Deron, et al...

At some point, it doesn't matter what their record is or what young talent is on the roster; the players in the league who have a say in terms of where they want to play develop a 'show me' mentality towards this franchise like most of us (especially me) have over the years. That explains why every viable team is mentioned as a future destination for 'Player X' who isn't 1) on his last leg and looking for one more payday or 2) a fringe bench player/minimum salary guy. Sure, we'll get in the mix for the Etan Thomases and Josh Powells of the world but Carmelo Anthony? Really folks?

Until they prove people wrong and change the perception, well....

Edited September 23, 2010 by Dejay

[Wretch]

It starts with leadership at the top. You have a GM who's pretty much handcuffed by an ownership group who nickel and dimes just about everything. The Notorious A.S.G. reminds me of that commercial where a businessman takes some clients out to dinner, gets the bill, tells them to go to the car while he takes care of it, only to later run out of the restaurant, hop in the car, and orders the guy to drive off before the waiter catches him. What superstar you know of wants to spend the prime of his career with that kind of backdrop?

That's explains why JJ had all the leverage in the world once contract time came around to demand a max deal while others were scaling back. When it isn't the owners suing each other or crying about wanting to stay below the luxury tax so they can continue getting those escrow payments, they're selling off draft picks for $ and giving away 'assets' like Childress for second-rounders who will likely never wear a Hawk uniform. Even when $ isn't an issue, they place imcompetent folks in charge (see Knight, William or Babcock, Peter). You tell me how many more years we'll be hearing about the Hawks passing over CP3, Roy, Deron, et al...

At some point, it doesn't matter what their record is or what young talent is on the roster; the players in the league who have a say in terms of where they want to play develop a 'show me' mentality towards this franchise like most of us (especially me) have over the years. That explains why every viable team is mentioned as a future destination for 'Player X' who isn't 1) on his last leg and looking for one more payday or 2) a fringe bench player/minimum salary guy. Sure, we'll get in the mix for the Etan Thomases and Josh Powells of the world but Carmelo Anthony? Really folks?

Until they prove people wrong and change the perception, well....

Preach. On. lol

I also don't buy the "Big Market" argument. There's only a couple of mega-market cities, and there's only so many superstar slots available to fill in them. Yes, every player dreams of putting on a show in MSG, but every player dreams of WINNING too. And when you have a winning club, teams talk about playing for you (the exception seemingly being US). No, Atlanta is not the biggest market, but it is FAR from the smallest media market either. Moreover, it's practically BEGGING for an athlete to put the city on it's shoulders - the same athletes that seem to love this city. Or am I wrong here...and there's nobody in ATL rocking D-Wade, Bron, Jordan, Kobe gear? Our arena doesn't thunder with chants for "MVP" when they come to town? Hell, I'm a 100 miles south in PODUNK Columbus and just today I saw a cat sweating it out in a black T and a New York MCDYESS jersey!!!

...and unrelated to basketball, but I know folks (and you do TOO) that will straight up fight you over Vick.

We may as well be the Alaska Hawks, because that's how the players look at our franchise.

Edited September 23, 2010 by Wretch

[Joker]

Preach. On. lol

I also don't buy the "Big Market" argument. There's only a couple of mega-market cities, and there's only so many superstar slots available to fill in them. Yes, every player dreams of putting on a show in MSG, but every player dreams of WINNING too. And when you have a winning club, teams talk about playing for you (the exception seemingly being US). No, Atlanta is not the biggest market, but it is FAR from the smallest media market either. Moreover, it's practically BEGGING for an athlete to put the city on it's shoulders - the same athletes that seem to love this city. Or am I wrong here...and there's nobody in ATL rocking D-Wade, Bron, Jordan, Kobe gear? Our arena doesn't thunder with chants for "MVP" when they come to town? Hell, I'm a 100 miles south in PODUNK Columbus and just today I saw a cat sweating it out in a black T and a New York MCDYESS jersey!!!

...and unrelated to basketball, but I know folks (and you do TOO) that will straight up fight you over Vick.

We may as well be the Alaska Hawks, because that's how the players look at our franchise.

LOL, Columbus is a military town, that place a little different than most cities of GA, Atlanta most definitely is different than most of GA. Yes, ATL like all cities love superstars and adding one would help the team in terms of rep. As for Vick, your not lying, he has a cult following in GA for the most part.

[lunar]

for the most part, atlanta teams have been synonymous for building teams from the inside and adding exterior pieces.

Braves: major stars always came from their farm system, chipper, andruw, hayward, mccain, even maddux, glavine, and smoltz came as young players.

Falcons: usually do make a splash in free agency: gonzo, dunta, dunn, abraham. also, the dynamics of the NFL restrict large player movement. especially trades and big free agent signings. most of you growth comes from the draft.

Hawks: mostly our best players come in the form of trades. joe, bibby, steve smith, mookie. the hawks aren't known for giving free agents big contracts. besides, you're not gonna get too much FA chatter when your whole team is locked up. bibby, joe, marvin, josh, and al aren't going anywhere. what's melo gonna say "they need to trade josh and jamal for me"?

[Wretch]

LOL, Columbus is a military town, that place a little different than most cities of GA, Atlanta most definitely is different than most of GA. Yes, ATL like all cities love superstars and adding one would help the team in terms of rep. As for Vick, your not lying, he has a cult following in GA for the most part.

Eh...not so much... Most of the military cats stay on post. And you know the military transplants from the people who live and grew up here. As both a military brat and someone who grew up here, I can tell you that the consensus is the same across both. The Hawks rank in sports relevancy just behind JV HS football and women's softball. I have sat in more barbershop conversations about "Them PISTONS!" or "Them KINGS" or "Them KNICKS" or "Them MAVERICKS" than I care to remember. And I have been laughed out of more bars even more-so for just mentioning the Hawks. Every once in a while, you'll run into a conversation with some old cat about Dominique, but everyone I know has a bandwagon team (or player) that they follow during the playoffs.

...as a matter of fact, TRUE STORY, this homeslice that I know that was born and raised here...just the other day showed me a new Lakers tattoo on his forearm.

LOVE MY LAKERS DAWG!!!

[Diesel]

It starts with leadership at the top. You have a GM who's pretty much handcuffed by an ownership group who nickel and dimes just about everything. The Notorious A.S.G. reminds me of that commercial where a businessman takes some clients out to dinner, gets the bill, tells them to go to the car while he takes care of it, only to later run out of the restaurant, hop in the car, and orders the guy to drive off before the waiter catches him. What superstar you know of wants to spend the prime of his career with that kind of backdrop?

That's explains why JJ had all the leverage in the world once contract time came around to demand a max deal while others were scaling back. When it isn't the owners suing each other or crying about wanting to stay below the luxury tax so they can continue getting those escrow payments, they're selling off draft picks for $$$ and giving away 'assets' like Childress for second-rounders who will likely never wear a Hawk uniform. Even when $$$ isn't an issue, they place imcompetent folks in charge (see Knight, William or Babcock, Peter). You tell me how many more years we'll be hearing about the Hawks passing over CP3, Roy, Deron, et al...

At some point, it doesn't matter what their record is or what young talent is on the roster; the players in the league who have a say in terms of where they want to play develop a 'show me' mentality towards this franchise like most of us (especially me) have over the years. That explains why every viable team is mentioned as a future destination for 'Player X' who isn't 1) on his last leg and looking for one more payday or 2) a fringe bench player/minimum salary guy. Sure, we'll get in the mix for the Etan Thomases and Josh Powells of the world but Carmelo Anthony? Really folks?

Until they prove people wrong and change the perception, well....

No what you have described is a team that would have never resigned Joe.

Go back to the Sterling playbook and look at it closely. He never signed big money players.. no matter how Good they were. That's because he is who you are describing.

When I look at the contracts given to Bibby, Marvin, Zaza, and Joe, I have to refute your notion that our owners are "cheap" or that they are nickeling and diming the GM. The real truth is tha they are not making every deal that Hawks fans want them to make. Such as paying for David Andersen... Remember him? The guy that Houston paid Toronto to take off their hands. Such as signing Garrett Siler... Where has he gone again? Such as signing these 2nd round bigs... ?? Such as jumping to give Eric Dampiere a big deal? I don't think it's cheap. But I will say that our ownership is very divided. They have to come to a consensus ...and with 3 groups that takes a lot of time. So, the net effect of all this is that we look cheap. I think our GM is given room and opportunity to do what he wants to do til a point. Unfortunately Sund is a measure 10 times cut once kind of GM. Nothing will ever be done at the fan's timescale.

Edited September 24, 2010 by Diesel

[JTB]

I get what all you guys are saying but I still dont understand players in the NBA. This is atlanta many people in this country talk about wanting to visit the ATL but yet no superstar player ever talks about coming here. I feel ATL is ignored in the sports world by media and superstars. I just cant see why on earth you wouldnt want to come to the ATL a city that has plenty of celebrities around and much to see in buckhead anyways(never been there but heard buckhead is pretty nice!) ATL might not compare to NY but i know its nice!

[lunar]

atlanta is a great town and many players live here. its just that as an organization,

1) you're not gonna get an overpriced contract (unless you're joe johnson)

2) there aren't any holes on the roster (every starting spot is held down by a capable player. )

3) even when we sucked, the payroll was bloated so free agents knew they couldn't get us to overpay.

big time free agents only look at teams that have the capability to pay them big bucks. when we've met that condition, we've gotten big free agents. (Joe Johnson & Dekembe Mutombo)

[AHF]

for the most part, atlanta teams have been synonymous for building teams from the inside and adding exterior pieces.

Braves: major stars always came from their farm system, chipper, andruw, hayward, mccain, even maddux, glavine, and smoltz came as young players.

Falcons: usually do make a splash in free agency: gonzo, dunta, dunn, abraham. also, the dynamics of the NFL restrict large player movement. especially trades and big free agent signings. most of you growth comes from the draft.

Hawks: mostly our best players come in the form of trades. joe, bibby, steve smith, mookie. the hawks aren't known for giving free agents big contracts. besides, you're not gonna get too much FA chatter when your whole team is locked up. bibby, joe, marvin, josh, and al aren't going anywhere. what's melo gonna say "they need to trade josh and jamal for me"?

Among others, the Braves have brought in the following players from the outside during their key years:

Greg Maddux

Terry Pendleton

Otis Nixon

Alejandro Pena

Fred McGriff

Marquis Grissom

Kenny Lofton

Denny Neagle

Andres Galarraga

Bret Boone

Brian Jordan

Gary Sheffield

Vinny Castilla

Mike Hampton

JD Drew

Johnny Estrada

Tim Hudson

Edgar Renteria

Rafael Soriano

Mark Texiera

etc.

These guys, along with a healthy dose of lesser guys like BJ Surhoff, John Burkett, Gerald Williams, Julio Franco, etc. are part of a pattern by the Braves of consistently bringing in key players from outside the organization to work with their core of homegrown players.

Just looking at the history of the 1B position in Atlanta is enough to know that we don't hesitate to bring in people from the outside and that, unlike the Hawks of recent years, it is rare that some of the outside players aren't among the most important on our roster.

Edited September 29, 2010 by AHF

[khaos7]

Typically, it has been an ownership thing. When the Braves and Falcons have had solid ownerships, by and large they are able to attract names. Remember in 1993, the decision for the Braves was between Maddux and Bonds. Bonds wanted to come to ATL. However, the Braves opted for pitching. Terrell Owens and Randy Moss have said they'd be open to coming to the ATL. A Rod probably would have came to ATL. However, Texas simply threw him more money than (understandably) the Braves would shell out. Whether the Braves and Falcons decided to pull the trigger on these names is another story. However, it was public knowledge that they didn't mind coming to the "A."

I used the word typically at the beginning because for whatever reason, the Hawks have had problems attracting the big name. Even when Ted owned the team, we never had the huge big name beat down the door to sign here. A washed up Moses Malone and Dikembe are the only names I can think of that the Hawks signed in FA that could grab a few headlines. Joe Johnson was a 4th option for the Suns attempting to make a name for himself.

With the Hawks (the ASG's version) I believe it's both ownership and the historical perception of the team. I believe players look at us and say this team is a second round ousted team at best. And historically (recently that is) that is true. The low priced real estate is an attraction. However, they can live here in the off season without wearing our colors.

[Wretch]

Typically, it has been an ownership thing. When the Braves and Falcons have had solid ownerships, by and large they are able to attract names. Remember in 1993, the decision for the Braves was between Maddux and Bonds. Bonds wanted to come to ATL. However, the Braves opted for pitching. Terrell Owens and Randy Moss have said they'd be open to coming to the ATL. A Rod probably would have came to ATL. However, Texas simply threw him more money than (understandably) the Braves would shell out. Whether the Braves and Falcons decided to pull the trigger on these names is another story. However, it was public knowledge that they didn't mind coming to the "A."

I used the word typically at the beginning because for whatever reason, the Hawks have had problems attracting the big name. Even when Ted owned the team, we never had the huge big name beat down the door to sign here. A washed up Moses Malone and Dikembe are the only names I can think of that the Hawks signed in FA that could grab a few headlines. Joe Johnson was a 4th option for the Suns attempting to make a name for himself.

With the Hawks (the ASG's version) I believe it's both ownership and the historical perception of the team. I believe players look at us and say this team is a second round ousted team at best. And historically (recently that is) that is true. The low priced real estate is an attraction. However, they can live here in the off season without wearing our colors.

It's definitely an ownership thing with us. That combined with the history of this club is the problem - and there is a problem, I don't care what anyone has to say about it. You take a guy like LeBron, Kobe, Wade...just one All-NBA player and then you remove one of Marvin/Horf/Smoove and you've got a team here that would flat out OWN. Yet, we've never a possible destination. Which has been the case for as long as I've been a fan. We've always been just one player away from really being an elite team and we've never been able to lure that guy.

As fans, we kind of just accept that and talk about guys like Mo Evans, Stephen Jackson, or even Joe Johnson as the top sort of off season acquisition for us (ironically, if it had been THIS Joe Johnson coming out of Phoenix I doubt we would have had a chance either). And though it's just my opinion, I believe our management shares the same expectation. We've got a good team and God only knows what they can truly accomplish. However, the teams that really get things done go out and reel in the big fish.

Those same fish seem to swim away from our lines and towards just about everyone else's.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Wretch