Would Joe come off the bench?

[Diesel]

I said it tongue in cheek moments ago, but now... It's making a lot of sense in my mind.

For the second time in a row, we started with:

Bibby

Marvin

Josh

Horf

Collins

and ball movement is up, play making is better. I know it's a small sample size.. but I'm thinking longterm here. If we develop chemistry with this group.... When Joe gets back, we can bring him off the bench and have:

Teague, Jamal, Joe, Powell and Zaza come off the bench as a whole second team. NOT A SUB... NOT A SUB.. but a second team TULANE 1997 style. Teague will get the tutoring to work with Joe and Jamal. Our bench will be the deepest in the league. Forget about the contracts for a moment and think about this:

How will a team game plan for 2 totally different teams? One Big team and One Guard heavy team? Then in the 4th, we play hothand. i.e. put in the 5 best. e.g. send Marvin to the bench, put Joe in. Send Collins to the bench, put in Jamal!

[Joker]

:thumbsdownsmileyanim: No

[JohnnyCASH]

lol :jumping11:

[Dexmethylphenidate]

Marvin would be better off the bench as oppose to the 120mill dollar man.

Bibby, JJ, Smith, Horford, Collins against big lineups.

Crawford, Marvin, Powell, Teague, Evans, Etan off the bench. Zaza is the new bench warmer.

[Gray Mule]

WHATEVER WORKS.

Too many times, a player's ego gets in the way of team play. Too bad.

This is a team sport.

:conversation:

[Atlantaholic]

Good one Diesel :go ahead:

[AHawks89]

LoL :slap1: :saythat:

[lethalweapon3]

((question reserved for Year 5 of Joe's contract))

~lw3

[Diesel]

Marvin would be better off the bench as oppose to the 120mill dollar man.

Bibby, JJ, Smith, Horford, Collins against big lineups.

Crawford, Marvin, Powell, Teague, Evans, Etan off the bench. Zaza is the new bench warmer.

Marvin gives nothing. I'm not saying that Joe doesn't play good minutes. I'm saying start by getting Horf and Smoove in the game first. Establish our frontcourt. Establish our defensive presence. Establish our ball movement. Then when a team thing they have us figured out, throw in Joe and Craw and a whole 2nd team and push the throttle on high. I think Joe being out and our style of play will help LD develop some players like Powell, Collins, Zaza, and maybe Teague. That's usable depth. Not to mention the effect it will have on Horf and Smoove (especially if they get to play more palatable positions). I'm not saying we don't need Joe, I'm saying Change Joe's role so that the team benefits. We know that Joe can get his points. We know that Craw can get his points. I'm saying, establish our inside presence with Josh/Horf/Marvin/Collins... then bring in the 2nd team.

This is not an ego issue. I guarantee, if we did it this way, we'd win more games. We'd also probably get 4 into the allstar game.

Marvin would be better off the bench as oppose to the 120mill dollar man.

BTW playa. No offense, but Joe's contract.. when he is on the court.... is meaningless.

[tremor]

I agree. Bench JJ. Also put Crawford on the court before him.

[Guest Walter]

Marvin would be better off the bench as oppose to the 120mill dollar man.

Bibby, JJ, Smith, Horford, Collins against big lineups.

Crawford, Marvin, Powell, Teague, Evans, Etan off the bench. Zaza is the new bench warmer.

The ONLY trade value MW has is as a starter. If we are going to move MW to the bench we should simply package and trade him.

If JS can have what would be MW's CAREER game at Sf in only JS's 2nd game there, we've simply got to make this change allowing Horford to play the 4. That means get a 5 AND FAST. That means trade MW, AND FAST.

Frankly, I'd settle for Jason Thompson for Teague right now, but there are better possibilities out there.

W

[AHF]

If you put Lebron James at center, he would put up stats that would be a career game for Miami's centers. That wouldn't make it a good move for Miami as a team to make him Miami's starting center.

I think focusing on whether Josh Smith can put up numbers at the 3 compared to Marvin Williams is looking at this the wrong way. You need to look at the impact of Marvin/Josh/Horford versus Josh/Horford/Collins over a large enough sample size to evaluate the impact.

[foeteen14]

joe johnson is not coming off the bench. he just signed a 120 million dollar contract. it cannot be justified having him come off the bench. even if he did, it wouldn't matter because he would still play starter minutes

[Nicholasp27]

am in in the twilight zone?

did diesel really just make a thread to start marvin over joe?

[tremor]

I agree. Bench JJ. Also put Crawford on the court before him.

Of course I was joking. To suggest benching Joe is ridiculous.

[Bawse]

Sure, lets have our leader and our 126 million dollar man come off the bench. Very smart.

BTW playa. No offense, but Joe's contract.. when he is on the court.... is meaningless.

Obviously it meant enough to offer him the biggest contract in basketball.

[Diesel]

Sure, lets have our leader and our 126 million dollar man come off the bench. Very smart.

Obviously it meant enough to offer him the biggest contract in basketball.

What I'm saying is that Joe is paid. Regardless of if we were paying him 126 Million or 126 thousand, Joe would still be the same Joe on the court. The money makes no difference ON THE COURT. I love how people look at effects and try to treat them as causes.

Moreover I don't have a problem with Joe playing starters minutes. Hell, I expect it. What I'm saying is that if we can establish our frontcourt and defense early, It makes our games easier because we have guys just learning how to create for themselves. When Joe is on the court, everybody defers to him. That means that nobody else really establishes themselves with Joe starting and playing 40 mpg. Then we wonder why Joe went 9 of 28 and nobody else could get hot? It's simple, everybody knew that Joe would be the goto guy, and it happened just like they planned. But when we get Horf and Smoove started early then introduce Joe and Jamal a little later, it's a gameplan that works.

So here's my challenge:

Ignore contract and tell me what's wrong with the gameplan...

Can anybody talk basketball? Or is everybody more concerned with politics and press clippings than what is happening on the court.

Edited December 8, 2010 by Diesel

[MaceCase]

You simply cannot ignore contract and compound a mistake already made by management. Funny how you've complained for a millennium about the only reason Marvin starts is to justify his draft position but then you are going to forget you're entire reasoning to say that 123 million dollars should come off the bench. It defies reason, how many teams have had to lose young talent because they've had overpaid vets already locked in like Portland with JO? We even got Joe because Phoenix couldn't justify paying 70 mil to their 4th option. Money determines playing time just as much as draft slots, management plays a big role in that aspect. If his impact is on the court then Joe needs to be on the court not sitting on the bench for the owners and GM to feel vindicated and receive returns on their huge investment. The parables here are too similar for such an ardent hater as yourself to ignore.

[Swatguy]

What I'm saying is that Joe is paid. Regardless of if we were paying him 126 Million or 126 thousand, Joe would still be the same Joe on the court. The money makes no difference ON THE COURT. I love how people look at effects and try to treat them as causes.

Moreover I don't have a problem with Joe playing starters minutes. Hell, I expect it. What I'm saying is that if we can establish our frontcourt and defense early, It makes our games easier because we have guys just learning how to create for themselves. When Joe is on the court, everybody defers to him. That means that nobody else really establishes themselves with Joe starting and playing 40 mpg. Then we wonder why Joe went 9 of 28 and nobody else could get hot? It's simple, everybody knew that Joe would be the goto guy, and it happened just like they planned. But when we get Horf and Smoove started early then introduce Joe and Jamal a little later, it's a gameplan that works.

So here's my challenge:

Ignore contract and tell me what's wrong with the gameplan...

Can anybody talk basketball? Or is everybody more concerned with politics and press clippings than what is happening on the court.

Diesel it is much more simple and expedient to just trade Joe. Jump into a three way or straight up. Get what you can and go forward. Joe has served his purpose now is the time to benefit from what he has done.

[Diesel]

You simply cannot ignore contract and compound a mistake already made by management. Funny how you've complained for a millennium about the only reason Marvin starts is to justify his draft position but then you are going to forget you're entire reasoning to say that 123 million dollars should come off the bench. It defies reason, how many teams have had to lose young talent because they've had overpaid vets already locked in like Portland with JO? We even got Joe because Phoenix couldn't justify paying 70 mil to their 4th option. Money determines playing time just as much as draft slots, management plays a big role in that aspect. If his impact is on the court then Joe needs to be on the court not sitting on the bench for the owners and GM to feel vindicated and receive returns on their huge investment. The parables here are too similar for such an ardent hater as yourself to ignore.

This isn't at all about Marvin. You can replace him with JC2 if you wish. This is about having punch (a real punch off the bench) and utilizing 2 distinct teams with different characteristics during a game. I reference Tulane 91 for you guys earlier. They were a team with no true pro prospects but they threw many teams off with their 1st and 2nd teams. Perry Clark came up with the idea of letting bench quality players start and playing his starters off the bench.

Now that the contract is done, Joe is a Hawk unless we trade him. That has very little to do with how LD uses him.

Diesel it is much more simple and expedient to just trade Joe. Jump into a three way or straight up. Get what you can and go forward. Joe has served his purpose now is the time to benefit from what he has done.

No. Joe is still our best player. Period. I just think that there's a way that we can use him that will help the team. It's no slight to Joe and no indication that we don't need him. It's just us trying to develop players in season.