Has Josh abondoned his inside game?

[JackB1]

Seems like all he does lately is shoot long jumpers.

[Supporter]

Seems like all he does lately is shoot long jumpers.

we are also losing the motion offense, sigh, typical hawks. I hate to admit it but when Joe is in the game the whole team starts to just sit and watch him playmake.

[BudBall]

Dont worry Smoove will be in Denver.

[AHawks89]

Another Josh Smith hate thread from JackB. Never thought I'd see that. :magnifier:

[Plainview1981]

Josh is a lazy stat player. It' been that way since he came here, and it will be that way .

[Sothron]

As much as some people have agendas we also need to be able to constructively criticize our own players when its needed.

Two points have been made that I agree with: Josh has almost completely abandoned trying to score in the post or driving to the rim and the motion offense is sputtering and dying with Joe back. It really has become Iso Joe all over again for stretches at a time.

[Diesel]

I think we have to figure out what we have and what we need.

What we have in Smoove is a good shot blocker, good energy guy, who is in love with his outside shooting and has no true inside game.

What we need is a post player.

Sorry fellas, but we need an inside player who can give us inside scoring.

If Smoove could get us Lopez, Bogut, or Gasol I would do that deal today. Rght now, Smoove couldn't get us Kaman (they have their PF of the future).

So we need to answer the question. Is Smoove a Sf? This is one that we've been looking at for years.

Personally, I said that Smoove would never fully embrace PF because at heart, he's a sf. I think this is playing out now. We, however, still need a low post presence (because Al is a high post PF).

It's sad to think, but maybe the problem is Smoove. Maybe we should push NY to get a deal done for Melo and see if we can get Nene?

[JackB1]

Another Josh Smith hate thread from JackB. Never thought I'd see that. :magnifier:

How is it a "hate" thread? It is merely an observation. Is it true or not? If it's not,

then let me know why?

For years EVERYONE related to the NBA has said over and over that Josh Smith is

most valuable when he plays on the inside and above the rim. Nique' criticises him

every time he takes a long jumper with time left on the 24 sec. clock. Is Nique' a "hater"?

No....he speaks the truth. Josh is talented enough to get away with playing the way he

wants, but the fact is he could be a lot better, but chooses not to mix it up inside and just

be lazy and take jumpers. We have plenty of guys on this team that can hit jumpers. What

we need is an inside presence. Josh can do it, but he would rather work on his 3-pointer.

(0-3 last night BTW).

I predict that by the end of the season, his 3 pt % will be back to where is has been for his career

average. I don't hate Josh. But I am totally frustrated watching him these past 5 years. His

stubborn-ness and laziness make him hard to root for. Is he an above average forward in the

NBA? Sure. But, he is uncoachable and doesn't want to do what's best for the team. That's

what bothers me the most.

[Jody23]

I think we have to figure out what we have and what we need.

What we have in Smoove is a good shot blocker, good energy guy, who is in love with his outside shooting and has no true inside game.

What we need is a post player.

Sorry fellas, but we need an inside player who can give us inside scoring.

If Smoove could get us Lopez, Bogut, or Gasol I would do that deal today. Rght now, Smoove couldn't get us Kaman (they have their PF of the future).

So we need to answer the question. Is Smoove a Sf? This is one that we've been looking at for years.

Personally, I said that Smoove would never fully embrace PF because at heart, he's a sf. I think this is playing out now. We, however, still need a low post presence (because Al is a high post PF).

It's sad to think, but maybe the problem is Smoove. Maybe we should push NY to get a deal done for Melo and see if we can get Nene?

Great insight. It's been clear to me from the beginning that Josh was never a legit 4. Everyone keeps screaming "he's 6'9, 240", but if you watch the games, he's clearly giving up size most nights.

[MaceCase]

Josh was taking about 6 shots a game in the paint the past 3 years where he played primarily at PF and was averaging 66% on them. He attempted 7 shots a game just last season at that percentage during his career year.

Now he barely attempts 4 shots in the paint and is shooting 64%. Even worse, he's being assisted on a 10% higher amount of his inside shots meaning that his makes are mainly wide open/fastbreak dunks.

To answer the OP, hell yes Josh has abandoned his inside game. Your eyes and the stats bear this out.

To answer those still with the ridiculous notion that Josh is undersized or in a reality SF, explain to me how and why he was so willing and successful at getting points in the post the past 3 years? Did he suddenly shrink or did the league suddenly hit a growth spurt?

[tremor]

Josh needs to realize that when he's cold he should put the ball on the floor and work for his points hard way.

Drew continues to sit him when Smoove shoots to much jumpshots, but the message still didn't make it to Smoove's head. It's kinda disappointing.

[Plainview1981]

I think we have to figure out what we have and what we need.

What we have in Smoove is a good shot blocker, good energy guy, who is in love with his outside shooting and has no true inside game.

What we need is a post player.

Sorry fellas, but we need an inside player who can give us inside scoring.

If Smoove could get us Lopez, Bogut, or Gasol I would do that deal today. Rght now, Smoove couldn't get us Kaman (they have their PF of the future).

So we need to answer the question. Is Smoove a Sf? This is one that we've been looking at for years.

Personally, I said that Smoove would never fully embrace PF because at heart, he's a sf. I think this is playing out now. We, however, still need a low post presence (because Al is a high post PF).

It's sad to think, but maybe the problem is Smoove. Maybe we should push NY to get a deal done for Melo and see if we can get Nene?

The Hawks need to consider having a more balanced defensive team instead of hoping that Josh feels like blocking shots every night. If Josh does go, the defense at the PG spot has to get better. The Hawks have some of the worst perimeter defense in the league is what makes Josh look more valuable than he actually is or should be at that end of the floor.

[Joker]

I think we have to figure out what we have and what we need.

What we have in Smoove is a good shot blocker, good energy guy, who is in love with his outside shooting and has no true inside game.

What we need is a post player.

Sorry fellas, but we need an inside player who can give us inside scoring.

If Smoove could get us Lopez, Bogut, or Gasol I would do that deal today. Rght now, Smoove couldn't get us Kaman (they have their PF of the future).

So we need to answer the question. Is Smoove a Sf? This is one that we've been looking at for years.

Personally, I said that Smoove would never fully embrace PF because at heart, he's a sf. I think this is playing out now. We, however, still need a low post presence (because Al is a high post PF).

It's sad to think, but maybe the problem is Smoove. Maybe we should push NY to get a deal done for Melo and see if we can get Nene?

You don't know what Smoove could get us and he does have an inside game. He just hasn't used it and fell in love with that ugly jumper of his. He's the problem right now as Joe was the problem a couple months ago. In reality, they aren't the problem but neither are the solutions.

The Hawks need to consider having a more balanced defensive team instead of hoping that Josh feels like blocking shots every night. If Josh does go, the defense at the PG spot has to get better. The Hawks have some of the worst perimeter defense in the league is what makes Josh look more valuable than he actually is or should be at that end of the floor.

We can't do this without losing our biggest strength which is talent if we try to get a center. That's the issue. Atlanta has flaws but unless it makes them a championship team, I can't see any moves.

[Plainview1981]

You don't know what Smoove could get us and he does have an inside game. He just hasn't used it and fell in love with that ugly jumper of his. He's the problem right now as Joe was the problem a couple months ago. In reality, they aren't the problem but neither are the solutions.

We can't do this without losing our biggest strength which is talent if we try to get a center. That's the issue. Atlanta has flaws but unless it makes them a championship team, I can't see any moves.

There is little point with keeping the team the way it is. When I turn it to the game it only take a few minutes until I remembered why I didn't watch the last game. I didn't watch the Bucks game because the Hornets game made me sick to my stomach. I'm sick of seeing this team throw up one jumper and another. The poor fundamentals and low IQ's are just too much to watch. It's just.... Old. I'm tired of this team as it is. They're not entertaining to watch and they're not going to become a better team. The team is continuing the path to nowhere and I'm not going to watch it happen game after game anymore. The only time I watch a game now is when I get bored enough.

Thank you ownership!

This team doesn't have a big advantage in talent anymore. Sorry, but Rose/Boozer/Deng/Noah is better than JJ/Smoove/AL/Crawford. Heck, if you offered JJ/Craw for Rose they would laugh in our faces. NY is only getting better. And you still have teams like The Bucks who perhaps are only one move away from being better. There is nowhere to go from here but down the current time. And I would argue that JJ IS the problem. His contract alone makes him a problem at this point. Moreover, his jumper is no longer reliable. Josh Smith is basically an Antonie Walker.... His stats and what he possibly could do makes people not want to trade him, but he's been in the league long enough to stop playing this way and he's simply not going to continue to do it. He reverted back to what he did 2 years ago because that is the type of player he wants to be.

Management capped this team out on players that aren't good enough to reach the top. It all goes back to the Chris Paul over Marvin Williams selected. They draft put a limit on what this team can do. It was the one chance they had to get a superstar. You can say that we wouldn't have had this player or that player if the Hawks had selected Paul... BUT if you want a championship team the best way to go about it is to get the superstar player first and other players second.

Edited December 28, 2010 by Hotlanta1981

[Joker]

There is little point with keeping the team the way it is. When I turn it to the game it only take a few minutes until I remembered why I didn't watch the last game. I didn't watch the Bucks game because the Hornets game made me sick to my stomach. I'm sick of seeing this team throw up one jumper and another. The poor fundamentals and low IQ's are just too much to watch. It's just.... Old. I'm tired of this team as it is. They're not entertaining to watch and they're not going to become a better team. The team is continuing the path to nowhere and I'm not going to watch it happen game after game anymore. The only time I watch a game now is when I get bored enough.

Thank you ownership!

This team doesn't have a big advantage in talent anymore. Sorry, but Rose/Boozer/Deng/Noah is better than JJ/Smoove/AL/Crawford. Heck, if you offered JJ/Craw for Rose they would laugh in our faces. NY is only getting better. And you still have teams like The Bucks who perhaps are only one move away from being better. There is nowhere to go from here but down the current time. And I would argue that JJ IS the problem. His contract alone makes him a problem at this point. Moreover, his jumper is no longer reliable. Josh Smith is basically an Antonie Walker.... His stats and what he possibly could do makes people not want to trade him, but he's been in the league long enough to stop playing this way and he's simply not going to continue to do it. He reverted back to what he did 2 years ago because that is the type of player he wants to be.

Management capped this team out on players that aren't good enough to reach the top. It all goes back to the Chris Paul over Marvin Williams selected. They draft put a limit on what this team can do. It was the one chance they had to get a superstar. You can say that we wouldn't have had this player or that player if the Hawks had selected Paul... BUT if you want a championship team the best way to go about it is to get the superstar player first and other players second.

Agree with the first paragraph, I knew going into this season, I wasn't going to be happy till a major move was made and I haven't changed sight yet.

I like our talent over the Bulls, the difference is they have a PG and C which are the most important positions on the court which makes them a better team. Smith defense makes him always more valuable than Toine even if he's playing Toine like on offense. You know, falling in love with something that's not working and everyone but you knows it doesn't work. I can't disagree if you are talking about offense alone. Smith seemed to get better at the beginning of the season to only start playing outside of his strengths. Toine always played outside of his strengths when he was on bad or average teams. He seem to have sense with Dallas just not the game anymore. Smith is not lazy like Toine either. Smith is just an idiot, until he realize what he is (a potential elite anchor who can score with on the block with quick moves or a 15 ft jumper), he will not reach is high All Star ceiling. Watching Smith is frustrating when you are also watching David West. West is limited but he's knows everything about his game and plays to his strengths. Josh seems to know it for a game or two but doesn't sustain it.

The problem is they did just that. They thought Marvin was a future superstar and CP3 was going to be very good but not great. They failed. Simple as that. I would have prefer Deron myself.

Edited December 28, 2010 by nbasuperstar40

[ATownWhatup]

I think I read somewhere that LD had to have a conversation with Josh about his poor shot selection......this was like a day or two ago

[Diesel]

Josh was taking about 6 shots a game in the paint the past 3 years where he played primarily at PF and was averaging 66% on them. He attempted 7 shots a game just last season at that percentage during his career year.

Now he barely attempts 4 shots in the paint and is shooting 64%. Even worse, he's being assisted on a 10% higher amount of his inside shots meaning that his makes are mainly wide open/fastbreak dunks.

To answer the OP, hell yes Josh has abandoned his inside game. Your eyes and the stats bear this out.

To answer those still with the ridiculous notion that Josh is undersized or in a reality SF, explain to me how and why he was so willing and successful at getting points in the post the past 3 years? Did he suddenly shrink or did the league suddenly hit a growth spurt?

Josh played lowpost basketball for the last three years? Really? Really? REALLY? More like Josh scored on fastbreaks and Josh scored on moves going across the lane but Josh has not been a guy who we could count on to go into thepost and come away with points. Tell me, what is Josh's low post move? When we need a guaranteed two, do you throw it to him? Does he have a spot? The answer is no no and no. Josh purposely curtailed his three point shooting for the past few seasons. The reason being is that there was a lot of pressure for him to do so. That doesn't mean that he wanted to or that he liked it. We all wished and waited for Josh to develop into Love or Jefferson offensively. However, he never did and can't because it's not in him. He would even shoot from long range defiantly. Even now, he shoots from outside defiantly to prove that he can do it. This is who Smoove is. I know we want him to be a slashing Shawn Kemp kind of guy but his game (offensively) is more akin to Antwain Walker. Sure he has the size. But he doesn't have the mentality.

[Joker]

Josh played lowpost basketball for the last three years? Really? Really? REALLY? More like Josh scored on fastbreaks and Josh scored on moves going across the lane but Josh has not been a guy who we could count on to go into thepost and come away with points. Tell me, what is Josh's low post move? When we need a guaranteed two, do you throw it to him? Does he have a spot? The answer is no no and no. Josh purposely curtailed his three point shooting for the past few seasons. The reason being is that there was a lot of pressure for him to do so. That doesn't mean that he wanted to or that he liked it. We all wished and waited for Josh to develop into Love or Jefferson offensively. However, he never did and can't because it's not in him. He would even shoot from long range defiantly. Even now, he shoots from outside defiantly to prove that he can do it. This is who Smoove is. I know we want him to be a slashing Shawn Kemp kind of guy but his game (offensively) is more akin to Antwain Walker. Sure he has the size. But he doesn't have the mentality.

Josh would be perfect with a step up PG and a center like Nene who is great around the basket. He would clear up space and give Smoove room to operate. I just wanted Smith to be a good basketball player, he surpass my expectations because he used to suck. His defense is much better than what it was and his offense is decent when he's playing to his strengths. Smith would never be Kemp, I remember when you mention it a couple years ago. Smith could be really good if he plays to his strengths but he was never going to be Kemp offensively. NEVER

[MaceCase]

No, I've never seen Josh posted on the right block, in fact I've never seen him with his back to a player. The Hawks were just the Phoenix Suns the previous three years and Josh only scored on dribble drives like Lebron.