I just don't understand....

[Popeye]

Why do people hate on Collins so much.... I mean if you watch the games you will see that its not all about stats, things like boxing out, taking charges and tipping rebounds to other players will not be in the boxscore, but those are the little things we are missing... Now you can say he is a bad rebounder and I agree....He has bad hands and not so good reactions, but he gives others players a chance by boxing out or tipping it to them..... I looked at the games where he played meaningful minutes this year and for some reason we outrebound the other teams 43.7 to 39....this is sample of 7 games, but 5 of them come against Orl(3),San and Bos..... I know we all want Howard playing at c for us, but Jason gives us the best chance to win against these good teams and he has to start.....

[Joker]

What's the purpose of this thread? They have two other threads just like this one. Post this message in there.

[Diesel]

Why do people hate on Collins so much.... I mean if you watch the games you will see that its not all about stats, things like boxing out, taking charges and tipping rebounds to other players will not be in the boxscore, but those are the little things we are missing... Now you can say he is a bad rebounder and I agree....He has bad hands and not so good reactions, but he gives others players a chance by boxing out or tipping it to them..... I looked at the games where he played meaningful minutes this year and for some reason we outrebound the other teams 43.7 to 39....this is sample of 7 games, but 5 of them come against Orl(3),San and Bos..... I know we all want Howard playing at c for us, but Jason gives us the best chance to win against these good teams and he has to start.....

The problem is that some of the guys against Collins aren't really watching the games. All they have is stats and they cant see how he boxes out or how he takes the charge.

He's not great, but he's experienced and he does the little things well.

[coachx]

In the name of political correctness I would say that the "post" that hate on Collins are less informed then the "post" who recognize his value is not alwasye in a basic box score.

[exodus]

Unfortunately the "little things" don't include points. I don't have a problem with Collins starting against big, high scoring centers but having a full time starter with a PER of 5.7 isn't going to work.

There is a reason why the Hawks were able to sign him for a 1 year, $1.3 million deal.

Edited December 29, 2010 by exodus

[HawkItus]

PER is not the end all be all.

[exodus]

PER is not the end all be all.

I didn't say it was but you would be hard pressed to find many starters on good teams that have a PER below 6.

Even in the games Collins starts he plays only 19 minutes per game. I think some people here are seriously overrating him. In his career year he averaged 6/6 in 32 minutes, shooting 41%.

I have no problem with him playing the role he is playing now but he is not a guy you can start every day and play 30 minutes per game.

[Diesel]

I didn't say it was but you would be hard pressed to find many starters on good teams that have a PER below 6.

Even in the games Collins starts he plays only 19 minutes per game. I think some people here are seriously overrating him. In his career year he averaged 6/6 in 32 minutes, shooting 41%.

I have no problem with him playing the role he is playing now but he is not a guy you can start every day and play 30 minutes per game.

In that career year, was he the starting Center for a team that made it to the finals?

Nobody's claiming that he's the next great thing. I think many of us are saying that if you watched the games, he's not an embarrassment (as some stat watchers, like yourself, would have us believe).

[exodus]

In that career year, was he the starting Center for a team that made it to the finals?

Nobody's claiming that he's the next great thing. I think many of us are saying that if you watched the games, he's not an embarrassment (as some stat watchers, like yourself, would have us believe).

I have no problem with the Hawks using him the way they are using him now. Starting him against Orlando is fine. He is a big body to throw at Howard and gets Horford away from Howard on both ends.

Starting him against Miami (or most other teams) makes no sense.

[Popeye]

I think it makes sense since he can take a charge on bron and wade or he can simple hard foul them and make a statement....

[exodus]

I think it makes sense since he can take a charge on bron and wade or he can simple hard foul them and make a statement....

Drawing a charge on Bron/Wade isn't that easy, especially considering the star treatment they get from the refs. And the thought of Collins trying to guard a pick and roll with those two..... ugh.

And on the other end of the floor the Hawks would be playing 4 on 5.

Edited December 29, 2010 by exodus

[benhillboy]

There, there Dies and Ex. I'm sure we all can agree that Worse Twin maximizes what little skill and considerable experience he has.

[ATownWhatup]

can't we just go back to the good ole days and bring back Nazr Mohammad !

(sarcasm)

[exodus]

There, there Dies and Ex. I'm sure we all can agree that Worse Twin maximizes what little skill and considerable experience he has.

I agree. He does his job as a defensive specialist against big post players. But that is all he is good for.

He is not a guy you can start every game and play 30 minutes. He has too many weaknesses for that.

[Diesel]

I agree. He does his job as a defensive specialist against big post players. But that is all he is good for.

He is not a guy you can start every game and play 30 minutes. He has too many weaknesses for that.

Did anybody say start him and play him for 30 minutes??? Can I say Strawman. However, I say start him for a few weeks and see (not just guess) how he would play against other competition. We do an awesome job of pigeon holing players on this board. The truth is... YOU HAVE NO CLUE how he would fair against non-big bodies. NONE. All you have is a couple of worthless minutes in garbage time and that's it. Maybe, playing alongside our starters, he will be more of a benefit than a problem. Oh well, back to that lovely pigeon hole that you're making for him.

[DJlaysitup]

Did anybody say start him and play him for 30 minutes??? Can I say Strawman. However, I say start him for a few weeks and see (not just guess) how he would play against other competition. We do an awesome job of pigeon holing players on this board. The truth is... YOU HAVE NO CLUE how he would fair against non-big bodies. NONE. All you have is a couple of worthless minutes in garbage time and that's it. Maybe, playing alongside our starters, he will be more of a benefit than a problem. Oh well, back to that lovely pigeon hole that you're making for him.

I think you make a solid point D. I would prefer we go big all the time. Still, Collins is not our starting center. We have to get somebody who can actually play the position....night in...night out.

[thecampster]

Unfortunately the "little things" don't include points. I don't have a problem with Collins starting against big, high scoring centers but having a full time starter with a PER of 5.7 isn't going to work.

There is a reason why the Hawks were able to sign him for a 1 year, $1.3 million deal.

That reason is he was 40lbs overweight....an issue that has been corrected and shows in his athleticism.

He would be a terrible fit for a team that has trouble scoring. He would be a God send for a team like Golden State who was badly exposed tonight in the paint.

for our team, a team with 2 very athletic players in Smith and Horford, his difficiencies are easily compensated for.

[DJlaysitup]

That reason is he was 40lbs overweight....an issue that has been corrected and shows in his athleticism.

He would be a terrible fit for a team that has trouble scoring. He would be a God send for a team like Golden State who was badly exposed tonight in the paint.

for our team, a team with 2 very athletic players in Smith and Horford, his difficiencies are easily compensated for.

Oh please camp...you are correct that his "athleticism" has improved - but to be fair he has gone from a 6-inch verticle to a 12 inch verticle.....maybe 14" tops...he is a workmanlike backup center at best..basically there for his height. There are 40 better centers in the league right now and 20 better centers in Europe/Internationally.

Edited December 30, 2010 by DJlaysitup

[foeteen14]

Collins is what he is. he's not a great player, but he knows that. he does what he can on the court. he doesn't hurt the team at all. and with the current construction of the hawks. he should start. he should play 20-25 minutes a game on this team. he's a big that doesn't need the ball on a team that lacks size, and has plenty of players that are willing to take shots. i could see if he was on the bobcats. as below average as he is, collins has value on THIS team.

[exodus]

Did anybody say start him and play him for 30 minutes??? Can I say Strawman. However, I say start him for a few weeks and see (not just guess) how he would play against other competition. We do an awesome job of pigeon holing players on this board. The truth is... YOU HAVE NO CLUE how he would fair against non-big bodies. NONE. All you have is a couple of worthless minutes in garbage time and that's it. Maybe, playing alongside our starters, he will be more of a benefit than a problem. Oh well, back to that lovely pigeon hole that you're making for him.

Collins is not a rookie. He is a vet. If he was a good every day starting center we wouldn't have been able to get him on a 1 year vet min deal.

Duh