Calderon nor Nash is needed for this ATL Hawks team!

[JTB]

Nash isnt needed atleast not for Jamal or any other prime player on our roster:

First off dont get me wrong I would love to have Steve Nash but not for Jamal Crawford! but if there is any other way of attaining Nash without giving up JJ,Jamal,Josh, or AL than Im for it, but is too risky cause of Nash age. This would be a win now move but HEY GUYS!!!....what if we dont win it now, Nash will be ready to go to another elite team and try his luck. Nash has about 3 years left in him I mean he's 36 and why he is still amazing right now, he's not amazing enough for the Hawks to give up 30 year old Jamal Crawford who has at least another 6 years or so in him, not to mention with us if we resign him.

Jose Calderon just doesn't make sense:

Jose is good better than Bibbs at some parts of his game particularly passing but this guy is 29 almost 30! Bibby is 32 and is hitting the 3 ball very well this season. Calderon has a slight edge in his offense ability with his ability to drive and pass.......ok he is better than bibbs but really is he good enough to help us get to that next big stage....No. I mean he has the same flaw bibbs have....defense so why trade for another poor defender on the perimeter? This team doesn't need help on the offense end. What we need is a pg who can defend and shoot the 3....Jarret Jack for some reason comes to mind....hmmmmmmm

Ok.....I was waiting for this one and before you say it I will address it:

So here's most of you reading this post.........this guy is so dumb (in A.Dodson voice) LOL....But really your probably saying why is this guy ignoring the fact that Nash and Calderon are better assist pg's? Well Im not, I actually agree but here's the thing. LD has created a new motion offense these hawk players are really buying into. It's kinda like Phil triangle offense (not comparing the coaches, dont jump on me) the Lakers has never had a PG that gets a ton of assist since Phil has been coaching there! Hell D.fish dont even bring the ball up the court half the time. How many times do we see Odom bring up the ball for LA?.......alot. So to put this thing in conclusion assist PG's arent needed if a team has a offense gameplan and dont run iso's all day. AN PLEASE READ THIS: Hawks are currently #7 in the NBA as a team in assist! What the hell do we need a PG that has a high average in assist for?

Link proving Hawks are ranked number 7 in NBA in assist per game in case some of you didnt know:

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/atl/atlanta-hawks

ONE LAST THING YOU MAY FIND THIS INTERESTING IF YOU ARE AN ASSIST LOVER........Since 2000 how many PG's that are known for assist has won a Championship?.................1 and that was rondo and as a matter of fact at that time he wasn't really even known for assist. Dont believe me look it up.

[Brokentree]

If Crawford was signed to a longer contract and we were further away from the luxury tax I would probably agree with you. But the fact of the matter is Jamal most likely isn't going to be resigned unless we shed salary somewhere else.

I personally would love to see what this team looks like offensively with Steve Nash.

I have little to no interest in Calderon at his current salary.

[frosgrim]

The team needs an upgrade a PG. Bibby would be a fine off-the-bench scorer. In fact, his play actually makes trading Crawford a little easier. My preference is to get Lowery from Houston. But, Nash would a be a significant upgrade over Bibby. The other great thing about adding Nash is that he provides a real problem for both Orlando and Miami. I don't think either team has a guy that can guard Nash over a 7 game series. This gives the Hawks and advantage which don't have anywhere v. Miami and only at SG v. Orlando.

[Swatguy]

I agree with JTB. Calderon is not and upgrade over Bibby. His salary is longer, bigger. Bibby is better suited in the LD offense and it would KILL Chemistry. The guys Love Bibs and He loves it here. Besides, Teague is starting to show signs he may be the one.

It is foolish to think of moving Jamal, he is the igniter. I now believe we should stand pat at least til All-Star week. We are looking better since all of the holiday stuff ends (Hawks like to party).

[coachx]

Nash isnt needed atleast not for Jamal or any other prime player on our roster:

First off dont get me wrong I would love to have Steve Nash but not for Jamal Crawford! but if there is any other way of attaining Nash without giving up JJ,Jamal,Josh, or AL than Im for it, but is too risky cause of Nash age. This would be a win now move but HEY GUYS!!!....what if we dont win it now, Nash will be ready to go to another elite team and try his luck. Nash has about 3 years left in him I mean he's 36 and why he is still amazing right now, he's not amazing enough for the Hawks to give up 30 year old Jamal Crawford who has at least another 6 years or so in him, not to mention with us if we resign him.

I agree that Calderon is not ideal.

However, it sounds like your missing some points on Nash and Crawford.

1. Crawford is a free agent next year.

2. Nash is under contract for this year and next.

The Hawks would have to go into the luxury tax next season if they wanted to resign Crawford and would be over the tax for years. I doubt an ownership that has never paid the tax would committ to it for years with the EXACT same roster that keeps coming up short.

Now with Nash here is difference. Its a 1 year committment of paying luxury tax rather then several. That means less risk. As good as Jamal is, we know the limits of this current roster. The pot needs to be stirred and 1 year luxury tax committment is "low risk" and the ASG can shead an image of being "cheap" now that the ownership court battle is over.

[macdaddy]

The thing I think is being overlooked is Nash isn't just an assists guy. He's a good shooter too. Jamal is a better scorer but we aren't giving up that much scoring going to Nash. But as others pointed out Nash is a lot to contend with in the playoffs. Rondo, Jameer, whoever on the Heat is going to have to chase his *ss all over the court. That's good for us. Then Bibby can come in fresh and start bombing 3s.

The other point to consider is we would also wake up a lot of fans in this city. The team is already exciting but we'd have that flashy name player. It would make a huge difference in upgrading out profile.

[hawkshomer]

I'm curious what JTB thinks will get us past the 2nd round. Stick with the current roster and hope they buy into the new system?

[Vol4ever]

Nash isnt needed atleast not for Jamal or any other prime player on our roster:

First off dont get me wrong I would love to have Steve Nash but not for Jamal Crawford! but if there is any other way of attaining Nash without giving up JJ,Jamal,Josh, or AL than Im for it, but is too risky cause of Nash age. This would be a win now move but HEY GUYS!!!....what if we dont win it now, Nash will be ready to go to another elite team and try his luck. Nash has about 3 years left in him I mean he's 36 and why he is still amazing right now, he's not amazing enough for the Hawks to give up 30 year old Jamal Crawford who has at least another 6 years or so in him, not to mention with us if we resign him.

Jose Calderon just doesn't make sense:

Jose is good better than Bibbs at some parts of his game particularly passing but this guy is 29 almost 30! Bibby is 32 and is hitting the 3 ball very well this season. Calderon has a slight edge in his offense ability with his ability to drive and pass.......ok he is better than bibbs but really is he good enough to help us get to that next big stage....No. I mean he has the same flaw bibbs have....defense so why trade for another poor defender on the perimeter? This team doesn't need help on the offense end. What we need is a pg who can defend and shoot the 3....Jarret Jack for some reason comes to mind....hmmmmmmm

Ok.....I was waiting for this one and before you say it I will address it:

So here's most of you reading this post.........this guy is so dumb (in A.Dodson voice) LOL....But really your probably saying why is this guy ignoring the fact that Nash and Calderon are better assist pg's? Well Im not, I actually agree but here's the thing. LD has created a new motion offense these hawk players are really buying into. It's kinda like Phil triangle offense (not comparing the coaches, dont jump on me) the Lakers has never had a PG that gets a ton of assist since Phil has been coaching there! Hell D.fish dont even bring the ball up the court half the time. How many times do we see Odom bring up the ball for LA?.......alot. So to put this thing in conclusion assist PG's arent needed if a team has a offense gameplan and dont run iso's all day. AN PLEASE READ THIS: Hawks are currently #7 in the NBA as a team in assist! What the hell do we need a PG that has a high average in assist for?

Link proving Hawks are ranked number 7 in NBA in assist per game in case some of you didnt know:

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/atl/atlanta-hawks

I wiill disagree 100% with you on Nash. Nash has the great ability to get into the lane and break down the defense that leads to free throws and foul trouble for opposing bigs. In addition, it gives us a inside game that we do not have now. On the perimter

ONE LAST THING YOU MAY FIND THIS INTERESTING IF YOU ARE AN ASSIST LOVER........Since 2000 how many PG's that are known for assist has won a Championship?.................1 and that was rondo and as a matter of fact at that time he wasn't really even known for assist. Dont believe me look it up.

I disagree 100% about Nash. Nash consistently gets into the lane and breaks down the defense, and that adds 2 things we do not have now. There is either a foul and free throws or layups for big men. His penetration puts tremendous stress on the defense, free throws leads to fouls on the opposing team, and his penetration ability gives us an inside game we do not have at this point.

This is why he is a hall of famer. He makes us contenders and we are not contenders at this time.

[Swatguy]

I disagree 100% about Nash. Nash consistently gets into the lane and breaks down the defense, and that adds 2 things we do not have now. There is either a foul and free throws or layups for big men. His penetration puts tremendous stress on the defense, free throws leads to fouls on the opposing team, and his penetration ability gives us an inside game we do not have at this point.

This is why he is a hall of famer. He makes us contenders and we are not contenders at this time.

Does acquiring Nash mean, change the offense again? I think so. Is the defense improved? Nope worse. Does it better ASG's bottom line? Not with Jamal included in the deal. I believe Jamal can be had with less per than Nash's salary for next season(11+mil). Jamal may sign for 5/36. If we can move Marvin for Nash, sure. but not Jamal.

[Watchman]

I'd like to have Nash, but I wouldn't give up Crawford to get him. Marvin yes, Crawford no.

[frosgrim]

Does acquiring Nash mean, change the offense again? I think so. Is the defense improved? Nope worse. Does it better ASG's bottom line? Not with Jamal included in the deal. I believe Jamal can be had with less per than Nash's salary for next season(11+mil). Jamal may sign for 5/36. If we can move Marvin for Nash, sure. but not Jamal.

Why would the offense change? Nash can run just about any offense and the motion offense actually works better with a PG like Nash. The defense will not get better per se with Nash, but the offense would be better. Most importantly (and back to my oringal point), the Heat don't have anyone they can put on him and JJ. Nash really does create significant matchup problems for teams in the East.

Getting Nash would perk up interest in the team by the Atlanta fans. This city loves stars and Nash is a star player. Is he Carmelo? No. But, he's someone people get behind and cheer for. Lastly, doing a big trade will invogorate people into believing that the club is actually trying. Right now the majority of the the Atl fan-base has no confidence in the ASG. Getting Nash helps that problem.

I really don't get the idea that giving up Crawford would hurt the club. Crawford is a terrific scorer, but that's it. Nash can score and run the offense. Simply put, Nash is better than Crawford. Bibby then becomes the off the bench scorer.

Lastly, to get Nash, we'd have to include Crawford for the salaries to match.

[sasuke]

I disagree 100% about Nash. Nash consistently gets into the lane and breaks down the defense, and that adds 2 things we do not have now. There is either a foul and free throws or layups for big men. His penetration puts tremendous stress on the defense, free throws leads to fouls on the opposing team, and his penetration ability gives us an inside game we do not have at this point.

This is why he is a hall of famer. He makes us contenders and we are not contenders at this time.

This +:

The offense is more like a Princeton offense. You need a pg like Nash (Outstanding court vision & fast break creator) to run it at 100%. Other than that we will do as good as the Wizard under Eddie Jordan. I don't know where the triangle came from.

Once Jamal's out, the rotation will change. JJ will play almost all his minutes at the 2 & Marvin the same for the 3. Mo will back up Marvin & JJ(unless we get a back up 2 in a deal or Jordan steps up) BB will be huge as a reserve with his 3's.

We have the perfect players to play along side Nash & make this team a pick & pop/roll fest. If for some reason that I really doubt we don't win now, next season he'll be a 11 mill expiring contract that along with BB's 6 mill is a heck of a trade ship so don't worry about that.

[macdaddy]

Why would the offense change? Nash can run just about any offense and the motion offense actually works better with a PG like Nash. The defense will not get better per se with Nash, but the offense would be better. Most importantly (and back to my oringal point), the Heat don't have anyone they can put on him and JJ. Nash really does create significant matchup problems for teams in the East.

Getting Nash would perk up interest in the team by the Atlanta fans. This city loves stars and Nash is a star player. Is he Carmelo? No. But, he's someone people get behind and cheer for. Lastly, doing a big trade will invogorate people into believing that the club is actually trying. Right now the majority of the the Atl fan-base has no confidence in the ASG. Getting Nash helps that problem.

I really don't get the idea that giving up Crawford would hurt the club. Crawford is a terrific scorer, but that's it. Nash can score and run the offense. Simply put, Nash is better than Crawford. Bibby then becomes the off the bench scorer.

Lastly, to get Nash, we'd have to include Crawford for the salaries to match.

I could not agree more. Plus, people underestimate Nash's celebrity. We may think of Carmelo as a bigger star because we follow the NBA. I guarantee that average southern football fan is going to be more excited about Nash than Carmelo.

[Crank]

Why would the offense change? Nash can run just about any offense and the motion offense actually works better with a PG like Nash. The defense will not get better per se with Nash, but the offense would be better. Most importantly (and back to my oringal point), the Heat don't have anyone they can put on him and JJ. Nash really does create significant matchup problems for teams in the East.

Getting Nash would perk up interest in the team by the Atlanta fans. This city loves stars and Nash is a star player. Is he Carmelo? No. But, he's someone people get behind and cheer for. Lastly, doing a big trade will invogorate people into believing that the club is actually trying. Right now the majority of the the Atl fan-base has no confidence in the ASG. Getting Nash helps that problem.

I really don't get the idea that giving up Crawford would hurt the club. Crawford is a terrific scorer, but that's it. Nash can score and run the offense. Simply put, Nash is better than Crawford. Bibby then becomes the off the bench scorer.

Lastly, to get Nash, we'd have to include Crawford for the salaries to match.

First of Nash has the ball on his squad 99% of the time hes in the game so NO a motion offense wouldnt work with Nash .

What other offense has Nash ran besides Nellieball ?

I love Nash but Joe and Josh are not off the ball players anymore they are get the ball and do what they want players and if you took the ball out of there hands the way it would happen with Nash they would be extremely unhappy

and Bibby becomes a 6ft jumpshooter off the bench who cant create his own shot ? would you play Bibby and Nash together ?

Nashs offense in phoenix is built around him we basically have spent the past 5 months trying to get away from our offense focusing on one player and now we we insert a player into the lineup who can only thrive if he is the focal point.

Bibby as a scorer off the bench ? :help wanted3:

[sasuke]

First of Nash has the ball on his squad 99% of the time hes in the game so NO a motion offense wouldnt work with Nash .

Just like CP3 under Byron Scott's motion offense a few years ago. Pick & Roll/Pop insanity as I remember. Almost unstoppable.

What other offense has Nash ran besides Nellieball ?

With athletic freaks like Marvin & Smith + great mid range shooters like Horford & JJ maybe a bit of Nellieball is what we need.

I love Nash but Joe and Josh are not off the ball players anymore they are get the ball and do what they want players and if you took the ball out of there hands the way it would happen with Nash they would be extremely unhappy

For the good of the team & for the good of themselves they must get use to it & make it work, just as Wade & Bron did. Besides, JJ is not the type of player that drives. Going from drible drible drible to shooting open looks shouldn't be that difficult. & Nash wouldn't be playing 48 minutes.

and Bibby becomes a 6ft jumpshooter off the bench who cant create his own shot ? would you play Bibby and Nash together ?

Against small backourts or 2 guards that aren't an offensive threat I'll do it in a heartbeat.

Nash offense in phoenix is built around him we basically have spent the past 5 months trying to get away from our offense focusing on one player and now we we insert a player into the lineup who can only thrive if he is the focal point.

Right now a mere one on one defense can stop us. Nash, unlike everybody in our roster, will create open looks. He commands a double team, he drives & is one off the best shooters in the league. All Jamal can do is score & nothing else.

Bibby as a scorer off the bench ? :help wanted3:

I guess another player will come in the same or another trade to help BB with that matter.

Edited January 7, 2011 by sasuke

[coachx]

First of Nash has the ball on his squad 99% of the time hes in the game so NO a motion offense wouldnt work with Nash .

What other offense has Nash ran besides Nellieball ?

Do you ever bother to watch Nash ? The Suns have tons of movement. They just don't stand still and watch Nash. Nash hits guys on cuts perfectly and constantly throughout games. He also is still excellent at moving without the ball and has no trouble getting in the paint with the ball. He is one of the top 3 point shooters of all time, even better then Bibby at that.

Our motion offense is a bit distorted b/c Teague doesn't have the "true PG" skills and Bibby can't beat any one off the dribble. So this causes Teague to be hidden and for Bibby to be catch and shoot guy. To say an motion offense can't work with a true PG is simply not the case.

The Hawks would love to push the ball more. Horford and Smoove are made to run.........but Bibby isn't. With Nash, our small lineup would be much harder to contain. Smoove and Horford would not have to lead the breaks any more (since they beat Bibby down the court now). Nash can still run with them and is one of the most cerebral players of all time leading a break.

Edited January 7, 2011 by coachx

[DeacKillsaDevil]

I think the ASG would pay luxury tax for Steve Nash.

[Diesel]

If Crawford was signed to a longer contract and we were further away from the luxury tax I would probably agree with you. But the fact of the matter is Jamal most likely isn't going to be resigned unless we shed salary somewhere else.

I personally would love to see what this team looks like offensively with Steve Nash.

I have little to no interest in Calderon at his current salary.

Uhm... Trading Craw for Nash or Calderon is not shedding salary. Both of those guys are signed for the next year.

[Crank]

Do you ever bother to watch Nash ? The Suns have tons of movement. They just don't stand still and watch Nash. Nash hits guys on cuts perfectly and constantly throughout games. He also is still excellent at moving without the ball and has no trouble getting in the paint with the ball. He is one of the top 3 point shooters of all time, even better then Bibby at that.

Our motion offense is a bit distorted b/c Teague doesn't have the "true PG" skills and Bibby can't beat any one off the dribble. So this causes Teague to be hidden and for Bibby to be catch and shoot guy. To say an motion offense can't work with a true PG is simply not the case.

The Hawks would love to push the ball more. Horford and Smoove are made to run.........but Bibby isn't. With Nash, our small lineup would be much harder to contain. Smoove and Horford would not have to lead the breaks any more (since they beat Bibby down the court now). Nash can still run with them and is one of the most cerebral players of all time leading a break.

The Suns players are not our players . If you noticed I didnt say Nash didnt move I said our players dont move . I dont buy Joe or Josh suddenly giving up all ball handling responsibilities so Nash can do his dribble for 20 second things I just dont see it . Some of you are not living in reality if you think they will make Nash anything less than a spotup shoooter on this squad .

This team doesnt love to run. I just posted a quote a few days ago where LD himself says how they dont want to play too fast .

I have no problem with Nash Im just not sold on the key pieces on this team adjusting to him at all. I just dont see JJ or Smoove allowing someone to control who gets the ball and when as much as Nash does also when I factor in that this team doesnt even screen very well now nor do Al or Smoove have very good footwork on the screen roll to boot . Watch Amare's,David lees or even Boozers and its night and day now I believe they can learn but Nash has one maybe two season left and we waste that struggling to adapt him and his style .

It just doesnt make any sense unless you are gonna move either Josh or Joe and try and to get back a player who fits Nashs style of play and I just dont see that happening.

[99PROBL3MS]

I just think we aren't getting nearly enough from Bibby as our starting PG. Both Jose and Steve would be huge upgrades in every phase of being an NBA PG except a slightly less consistent 3pt shot. Our PF, C, and 6th man average about the same number of assists as the starting PG. I think Bibby could be a valuable bench player on a championship caliber team. WIth that said, there is no way you are a championship caliber team with Bibby as your starting PG.