Five simple questistions

[NineOhTheRino]

Simple and to the point.

Ryan Cameron is the Hawks PA guy. Some of you guys are non-local so you may not be familiar with him. He's known for:

"Dont sit down!"

"Hawks fans...make some noise!"

"It aint over!" (my personal favorite)

Edited May 20, 2011 by NineOhTheRino

[TRUEINTELLECTPLAYA]

All no's. We should trade Joe Johnson for that #2 pick because he is not the correct alpha male to lead this team to a NBA championship. Rubio, Joe, and Kevin Love is not a bad core, they also have money to spend so they could get a center or SF in free agency and be a decent team next year. Marvin is not really worth too much more discussion IMO, and Ryan Cameron is more funny than anything, I love when he says that foul was offensive and call the players name.

[Diesel]

And people don't like my polling???

JJ as the #1 guy? How about changing that to say JJ on the team.

I think we can win if we take a true team approach and fill our skillsets need. This whole idea of a #1 guy came around because of Jordan. However, the team game has and can still rule basketball. When you look at the Lakers (showtime), The Celtics (15 championships), the 76ers (the Mighty 76ers) those guys were more dominant than the Jordan led bulls because they played a team game. Jordan was great!!! But everybody is not going to get a Jordan. Everybody is not going to get a Rose or a Lebron. The Big three has led the way. They showed that if you go back to team play, you can always be in it.

What everybody fears about the hawks is if we somehow learn how to play together as a team with Toughness. If we had the cohesion and toughness of the Bulls, we would kill teams. We are monsters from outside. We can be monsters on the inside and defensively. The problem is:

1. Improper coaching. LD is just getting us back to the point where we can reestablish team play offensively. We still don't run plays. This team needs to be trained to run plays.

2. Players with low BBIQ. Too much said already.

3. fill all the skillsets. We lack a tough inside game. If this offseason we could get Tyson Chandler, Reggie Evans and Doc rivers to coach us, we'd win more than 70 games.

So it's not about JJ being the #1 guy. That's based off of our need to examine his contract. However, we do need JJ. He does a lot for our team.

[NineOhTheRino]

And people don't like my polling???

JJ as the #1 guy? How about changing that to say JJ on the team.

I think we can win if we take a true team approach and fill our skillsets need. This whole idea of a #1 guy came around because of Jordan. However, the team game has and can still rule basketball. When you look at the Lakers (showtime), The Celtics (15 championships), the 76ers (the Mighty 76ers) those guys were more dominant than the Jordan led bulls because they played a team game. Jordan was great!!! But everybody is not going to get a Jordan. Everybody is not going to get a Rose or a Lebron. The Big three has led the way. They showed that if you go back to team play, you can always be in it.

What everybody fears about the hawks is if we somehow learn how to play together as a team with Toughness. If we had the cohesion and toughness of the Bulls, we would kill teams. We are monsters from outside. We can be monsters on the inside and defensively. The problem is:

1. Improper coaching. LD is just getting us back to the point where we can reestablish team play offensively. We still don't run plays. This team needs to be trained to run plays.

2. Players with low BBIQ. Too much said already.

3. fill all the skillsets. We lack a tough inside game. If this offseason we could get Tyson Chandler, Reggie Evans and Doc rivers to coach us, we'd win more than 70 games.

So it's not about JJ being the #1 guy. That's based off of our need to examine his contract. However, we do need JJ. He does a lot for our team.

cheap shot

i actually like your polling

Sorry but as long as JJ is under contract he is the de facto #1 guy. His contact is such that you'll never be able to sign these fantasy players you're dreaming of. It would be nice to get a Tyson Chandler and Reggie Evans type but don't hold your breath.

...take out both the late '80s and early '00s Pistons. How many teams in the last 25 years have won titles without that main guy?

Edited May 20, 2011 by NineOhTheRino

[frosgrim]

cheap shot

i actually like your polling

Sorry but as long as JJ is under contract he is the de facto #1 guy. His contact is such that you'll never be able to sign these fantasy players you're dreaming of. It would be nice to get a Tyson Chandler and Reggie Evans type but don't hold your breath.

...take out both the late '80s and early '00s Pistons. How many teams in the last 25 years have won titles without that main guy?

I would add that the last Piston's championship was only won because Shaq and Kobe hated each other. And, Kobe didn't listed to Phil. That Laker team, on paper, should have destroyed the Pistons.

Point, is we shouldn't use the 00s Pistons as our model. (not that you're saying we should)

[Seano]

No WAY would I ever trade Smoove for an unproven draft pick, especially a #2 pick in a draft that is not considered particularly strong at the top. That's got shades of 'Marvin Williams redux' written all over it, so no thanks on that one. If we were to trade Smoove, we had damn sure better get back a quality and proven player and/or players along with any picks. He is one of our most valuable assets, despite the fact he can be so frustrating sometimes.

[AHF]

All "no" for me as well with one caveat:

IF our GM concludes that Enes Kanter is a franchise center, then you trade Josh for the pick (or you fire the GM because you don't trust him enough to make a call on talent).

[Diesel]

cheap shot

i actually like your polling

Sorry but as long as JJ is under contract he is the de facto #1 guy. His contact is such that you'll never be able to sign these fantasy players you're dreaming of. It would be nice to get a Tyson Chandler and Reggie Evans type but don't hold your breath.

...take out both the late '80s and early '00s Pistons. How many teams in the last 25 years have won titles without that main guy?

To which I say, if your remove Marvin and Hinrich, you can have those guys. You cry about Joe's 13 million.

Marvin and Hinrich represent 18 Million. Hinrich pulls his end but Marvin? come on.

The overwhelming point is that if you want to talk about JJas being de facto #1... Let's ask the real question...

IS Joe the most feared player on the Hawks squad??

If you say he's not, explain all the double teams?

If you say he's not explain why no other player on this team ever gets doubled?

If he is the most feared player and for 6 years have lead us in scoring and assists..

doesn't that make him de facto #1 around here??

Now, weather he's de facto #1 or not has nothing to do with can we win a championship.

Lebron was de facto #1 for Cleveland last year and they went to the 2nd round and lost. Winning basketball and championships require team play.. and Organizations that know what to do.

That why the Celtics, Lakers, Bulls, and Pistons hold 45 out of the 64 championships that have been handed out. Think that over... 45 out of 64. If I throw in the Spurs that what 50 out of 64?

5 teams 50 championships?

I would add that the last Piston's championship was only won because Shaq and Kobe hated each other. And, Kobe didn't listed to Phil. That Laker team, on paper, should have destroyed the Pistons.

Point, is we shouldn't use the 00s Pistons as our model. (not that you're saying we should)

Well, don't discount what the Pistons had to do to win either. i would say Shaq Kobe lost because they couldn't stop the pick and pop.. Something that Shaq doesn't do. And Billups ate their lunch...

[niremetal]

His contact is such that you'll never be able to sign these fantasy players you're dreaming of.

The difference between Josh and Joe's salaries in each of the next two seasons (ie until Josh's contract expires) is $5.6M and $6.5M - ie a little below and a little above the MLE. This past year, it was $4.5M. Josh fans make a big deal out of Joe's contract as if Josh is getting paid the league minimum compared to him. That's BS. What superstar could we sign with the extra $6.05M per year that JJ will be making over Josh during the next 2 years?

Sorry, but I think after seeing how the Hawks rose and fell in the playoffs with JJ's ability to get open looks while Josh played so idiotically that Charles freaking Barkley did a skit devoted basically to calling him stupid, most GMs would rather have JJ at his price tag than Josh at is. In the grand scheme of NBA salaries, where the luxury tax line is $70M, the difference between their contracts is not enough that one hamstrings you while the other doesn't.

It's the accumulation of contracts, none of which is a "bargain," that is killing us. You look at the teams that are bigger "contenders" for titles than us, each has at least one starter who has a GREAT value contract. We don't. JJ, Josh, and Al are all, I think, getting paid about what they are worth to most teams in the league, perhaps a bit more. Marvin is the only player who is patently overpaid. We don't have the luxury of an All-Star on his rookie contract (see: Durant, Westbrook, Rose*), an impact player getting way less than the MLE (see Sefolosha**), or a super-duper-megastar getting paid the artificially low "max salary" (see LeBron, Kobe***). It's not that any one guy is overpaid. It's that we don't have ANYONE who is underpaid.

Our best hope in that regard is that Teague emerges as a solid starting PG. If we can get that from him for the next 2 years at ~$2M per year, we have our "great value" contract and the flexibility that comes with it.

(* If rookies were signed to negotiated deals like in the NFL, those guys would be making $20M+ per year. For a less obvious example, the '04 Pistons had Tayshaun Prince on his rookie scale contract, which meant he was making less than $1M per year the year they won it all.)

(** If he went back to the free agent market now, he'd get a contract like Marvin's)

(*** If the max contract were stripped away from the CBA, those guys would be making $30M+ per year)

Edited May 22, 2011 by niremetal

[Yeti]

1. Can't win if all we do is rely on JJ. Jordan needed help and LeBron couldn't do it by himself either. It has to be a team effort to win. JJ has to be part of that, but the idea of relying on a star to carry the team is wrong.

2. I have been a Marvin supporter for years, but no more. He has never developed and he's too old to change now. Need a replacement or shift Joe to 3.

3. I'd do the trade in a heartbeat, and get the best center out there (Kanter?) or maybe another shooter.

4. LD has done better than I expected, but since we are dreaming I'd rather have Doc or someone more experienced.

5. Don't really care. He's actually kind of funny.

[niremetal]

It's been such a long week that I didn't even notice the typo in the title. It reminds me of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oppHeMlaLVM.

"The Questistition, what a show...."

[NineOhTheRino]

It's been such a long week that I didn't even notice the typo in the title. It reminds me of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oppHeMlaLVM.

"The Questistition, what a show...."

Not a typo. Questistition is actually the Swahili translation for question. I'm just doing my part in helping our Swahili-speaking members feel at home.

Edited May 27, 2011 by NineOhTheRino

[00Blink]

I know my handle says different but I am indifferent with this team. With that being said...

The difference between Josh and Joe's salaries in each of the next two seasons (ie until Josh's contract expires) is $5.6M and $6.5M - ie a little below and a little above the MLE. This past year, it was $4.5M. Josh fans make a big deal out of Joe's contract as if Josh is getting paid the league minimum compared to him. That's BS. What superstar could we sign with the extra $6.05M per year that JJ will be making over Josh during the next 2 years? This seems off to me. Joe gets 6 yr $120 mil and Josh got a 5 yr $55 mil contract. that is $20 mil minus $11 mil. I know I don't go into depth about percentage increases annually but the bottom line is the bottom line considering all of these contracts are guaranteed. That is a $9 mil difference. Where did you come up with $4.5 mil and $5.6 mil. That's a huge difference. You also have to look at value. JJ 'all-around' game is overrated. I don't know where anyone gets he has good on-ball or man-defense. I have not seem him shut anyone down at all. As far as double teams (Diesel's earlier post). What other superstar that is not in the post gets double teamed. It is hard to double team a wing or perimeter players because you have to trap. It is harder to trap unless that person is in the corner and stupid enough to get trapped there. Kobe doesn't, Melo doesn't, Wade doesn't, LeBron doesn't, Ray Allen doesn't, Ginobli doesn't, Pierce doesn't, Tyreke Evans doesn't, Kmart doesn't, Brandon Roy doesn't, and nearly no PGs doesn't. The reason being is that it is too hard to double a wing or perimeter player. For these caliber players, teams be like, 'he's going to get his points, we have to focus on stopping the supporting cast.' Well, it just so happens that Joe's the opposite. His reaction to double teams is too predictable and too slow. NO ONE gets doubled like Joe, outside of D12. WHEW!!

Sorry, but I think after seeing how the Hawks rose and fell in the playoffs with JJ's ability to get open looks while Josh played so idiotically that Charles freaking Barkley did a skit devoted basically to calling him stupid, most GMs would rather have JJ at his price tag than Josh at is. In the grand scheme of NBA salaries, where the luxury tax line is $70M, the difference between their contracts is not enough that one hamstrings you while the other doesn't.It's the accumulation of contracts, none of which is a "bargain," that is killing us. You look at the teams that are bigger "contenders" for titles than us, each has at least one starter who has a GREAT value contract. We don't. JJ, Josh, and Al are all, I think, getting paid about what they are worth to most teams in the league, perhaps a bit more. Marvin is the only player who is patently overpaid. We don't have the luxury of an All-Star on his rookie contract (see: Durant, Westbrook, Rose*), an impact player getting way less than the MLE (see Sefolosha**), or a super-duper-megastar getting paid the artificially low "max salary" (see LeBron, Kobe***). It's not that any one guy is overpaid. It's that we don't have ANYONE who is underpaid. As far as Barkley condemning Josh, who isn't/hasn't. We know what we got with him. It's because everyone else but him can see his potential and impact on the game. I will say this...Josh outplayed Joe in the playoffs...HANDS DOWN!! The defensive impact of Josh VASTLY outweighed Joes offensive impact and Josh outplayed him offensively. Bad shots and all. Joe takes bad shots every game, mulitple times a game (and I'm not excusing Josh). A lot of people say, Joe is our number 1 option/scorer, he is going to have bad shots...ask Phil Jackson what he thinks of his number 1 5-time champion/HOFer taking bad shots. It is not excusable. JJ wouldn't be getting a max contract with most teams unless he was the 3rd option for a team like Dallas/Chicago who wanted him to be a Pippen to someone's Jordan (bad comparison), wanted him to be someone Robin to Batman. Joe's true value to me is $14 mil a year and not a penny more. Notice true value and not market value. Market value can really jack things up...look at the US economy.

Our best hope in that regard is that Teague emerges as a solid starting PG. If we can get that from him for the next 2 years at ~$2M per year, we have our "great value" contract and the flexibility that comes with it. Let's hope this so that we can get the ball out of Joes hand and stop Joe from dribbling out the shot clock and taking a bad shot, HEAVILY contested shot (that he sometimes makes) or passing the ball out of a double team LATE for a bad shot, or turning the ball over. That is the PG role, create shots for teammates.

(* If rookies were signed to negotiated deals like in the NFL, those guys would be making $20M+ per year. For a less obvious example, the '04 Pistons had Tayshaun Prince on his rookie scale contract, which meant he was making less than $1M per year the year they won it all.)

(** If he went back to the free agent market now, he'd get a contract like Marvin's)

(*** If the max contract were stripped away from the CBA, those guys would be making $30M+ per year)

[DrReality]

Not a typo. Questistition is actually the Swahili translation for question. I'm just doing my part in helping our Swahili-speaking members feel at home.

Love this response. Mr. Diversity.