Straight out the frying pan into the fire!

[Diesel]

Wowzers nbasup. Good thread for a boring offseason so far. If we get a Detroit's first I don't see it being as bad as y'all think. We weren't gonna win a championship with Joe as the superstar, and without Craw probably wouldn't make it out of the first this year. RIP is great off the ball and fits Drew's motion offense to a T. He is a decent stopgap and with that pick it gives the leisure to pick a future SG (Alec Burks a young Eddie Jones/Brandon Roy type) on a much cheaper contract than Joe's. Doubt it happens though I want to be surprised.

GT, you're caught up in draft hype.

Us getting some draft pick and a ragedy Rip Halmilton while handing Chicago the East for the next 5 yrs means that we're dumber than when NJ gave us Mookie for Robinson.

[Joker]

Kemba really isn't a starting 5 guy. He's more of a sixth man. I'm a UConn grad, so I don't take this as me hating on the guy, I really like his college game. The problem is his size and high volume shooting is more suited for a sixth man role in the NBA.

That's my issue with this draft, I don't like anyone that much after the two centers, Knight, Williams, and Irving. Jan Vesely is intriguing. I rather an unprotected 1st in next years draft but seriously, the Joe potential trade will probably be serious once the new CBA is settled. Right now, it's just on the table.

[NineOhTheRino]

Joe Johnson and Josh Smith are on the trading block. Joe is on the block for expiring, no matter whom and Josh is on the block for key young assets and a ton of them as well. He told me Grant in interested in Smith and Atlanta interested in the top five pick but it is going to take more assets than that to land Smith.

Please let this happen!

If the Hawks trade Josh then they damn well better trade Joe too. What's the sense in sucking halfway? Just go balls out and take another crack at the lottery.

Edited June 21, 2011 by Not5Not6Not7

[ryandauwalker]

Kemba really isn't a starting 5 guy. He's more of a sixth man. I'm a UConn grad, so I don't take this as me hating on the guy, I really like his college game. The problem is his size and high volume shooting is more suited for a sixth man role in the NBA.

You're probably right... but here's the issue that us Hawks fans have to deal with. Signing Joe to that contract will hurt our franchise one way or another. There's no way that we can escape it. I was on board with signing him to that deal because we had no options considering all of the cash in the free agent market, and the cap prohibiting us from signing anybody of worth.

I think this is the best time to take your lumps as a team. We got Joe for a good price this year, we can retool our team, have a weaker year in 2011-2012, and not hurt the overall landscape of the franchise.

I hope I'm not right, but this is a way to stop the bleeding, and I think we should take it... who's with me!?!

[warcore]

You're probably right... but here's the issue that us Hawks fans have to deal with. Signing Joe to that contract will hurt our franchise one way or another. There's no way that we can escape it. I was on board with signing him to that deal because we had no options considering all of the cash in the free agent market, and the cap prohibiting us from signing anybody of worth.

I think this is the best time to take your lumps as a team. We got Joe for a good price this year, we can retool our team, have a weaker year in 2011-2012, and not hurt the overall landscape of the franchise.

I hope I'm not right, but this is a way to stop the bleeding, and I think we should take it... who's with me!?!

I'm with ya!

With some of the best FA and draft classes in recent history coming next year, I say the time is now. Dump Joe for expiring + high pick (either this year or next). Then call up Cleveland for a Marv, Zaza for Jameson swap. I think they'd do it.

If we're to obtain Detroit's 2011 pick, I'd want Jan Vesely.

ALSO, I feel like Bulls getting Joe and losing Boozer is too good for them.... can't they send Asik our way?

[GameTime]

GT, you're caught up in draft hype.

Us getting some draft pick and a ragedy Rip Halmilton while handing Chicago the East for the next 5 yrs means that we're dumber than when NJ gave us Mookie for Robinson.

I still don't see them beating the Heat. Bron-Wade >>> Rose-Joe Johnson

Bosh >>>>> Taj Gibson and Noah

I wouldn't call Richard Hamilton ragedy. He is still one of the best off the the ball scorers in the league.

[Joker]

I still don't see them beating the Heat. Bron-Wade >>> Rose-Joe Johnson

Bosh >>>>> Taj Gibson and Noah

I wouldn't call Richard Hamilton ragedy. He is still one of the best off the the ball scorers in the league.

Bosh>>Gibson

Noah>>>>Anthony

Rose>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bibby

Wade>Johnson

James>>Deng

Chi bench>Mia bench

[Diesel]

You're probably right... but here's the issue that us Hawks fans have to deal with. Signing Joe to that contract will hurt our franchise one way or another. There's no way that we can escape it. I was on board with signing him to that deal because we had no options considering all of the cash in the free agent market, and the cap prohibiting us from signing anybody of worth.

I think this is the best time to take your lumps as a team. We got Joe for a good price this year, we can retool our team, have a weaker year in 2011-2012, and not hurt the overall landscape of the franchise.

I hope I'm not right, but this is a way to stop the bleeding, and I think we should take it... who's with me!?!

This has always been Hawks thinking and it has always failed. Even back to Nique. It fails because we overshoot how hard it is to bring in a free agent. We'll be working from Draft and trades. If we trade Joe, then let's just take this team down to the studs because Joe is not the reason why we don't win. To say we're building around Horf and Teague is freakin Hilarious.

Horf is not Karl Ma FREAKN lon. Horf is an athletic undersized C or a Average PF with no post moves. In actuality, Milsap may be better than Horf.

Teague had one series. I liked what I saw but he still made mistakes.

However, if we start over, give me a GM with a real plan. Give me a Donnie Nelson like guy who can put the right players together. And give me some owners who would rather see us win than see themselves make big profits from the team. Because the real owners know, 1 winning season (winning it all) = 10 Seasons of fan following. Lakers got Swept. Fans still following.

Hawks won more games than the franchise has won since Nique/Bird..

Fans ready to abandon the team.

Good deal Hawks fans.

I still don't see them beating the Heat. Bron-Wade >>> Rose-Joe Johnson

Bosh >>>>> Taj Gibson and Noah

I wouldn't call Richard Hamilton ragedy. He is still one of the best off the the ball scorers in the league.

You don't understand matchups.

Miami lost to Dallas because Dallas had a complete team.

Now Chicago with Joe is very complete and they are the best defensive team in the league.

I'm sure that Joe will be sending Horf tickets to the finals so that he can see what a championship game looks like.

[ryandauwalker]

Diesel,

I'm not thinking about this year or even next year. I'm thinking of Years 3-6 of that contract will absolutely kill our franchise. Joe will be noticeably worse, and he will cover a remarkably high percentage of our team salary.

This trade allows us to get out of that without blowing up everything. We got a good year of Joe, we'll have a solid SG to fill in his place, more financial flexibility, plus a very high draft pick.

I'm NOT saying we should blow it up... because of the NBA cap rules, we were forced to give Joe that unconscionable contract and now we are getting an opportunity to get out of that obligation. He has peaked and there is no evidence of anything outside of that. I'm of the thought that this is a minor speed bump so our future is not in the toilet.

[Joker]

This has always been Hawks thinking and it has always failed. Even back to Nique. It fails because we overshoot how hard it is to bring in a free agent. We'll be working from Draft and trades. If we trade Joe, then let's just take this team down to the studs because Joe is not the reason why we don't win. To say we're building around Horf and Teague is freakin Hilarious.

Horf is not Karl Ma FREAKN lon. Horf is an athletic undersized C or a Average PF with no post moves. In actuality, Milsap may be better than Horf.

Teague had one series. I liked what I saw but he still made mistakes.

However, if we start over, give me a GM with a real plan. Give me a Donnie Nelson like guy who can put the right players together. And give me some owners who would rather see us win than see themselves make big profits from the team. Because the real owners know, 1 winning season (winning it all) = 10 Seasons of fan following. Lakers got Swept. Fans still following.

Bolded is why no one takes you serious. That and the whole trade Josh Smith for Hedo Turkoglu idea. You had so many, I lost count. Seriously, you really need to watch tape or have someone teach you Basketball. Not saying your intentions were bad but when you say stupid stuff, I can't help but laugh.

Teague is raw, no surprise there, we would be kidding ourselves to think he will be an all star next year. Most just expect a good player with Jamal type impact.

Edited June 21, 2011 by nbasuperstar40

[Swatguy]

He's a very good all around player who has a couple of elite traits. We just don't have the player who can utilize Al the way we should. Makes a ton of sense for Al to be our franchise player. If no one is trading a superstar to us, Joe could be a nuisance in the future. Not saying he wil but I could see the train of thought. Atlanta specifically wants certain things so I wouldn't be too worried. If we can get a lotto pick in next years draft. I would be happy. Having Harrison Barnes, Quincy Miller, Perry Jones, or Austin Rivers> 30 yr old Joe Johnson for us.

Al is over-rated. He is limited offensively and timid. He is better than average defensively. For what Al brings and also what Al do not bring, trade him for what makes sense. Signing Kris Humphries brings more than Al.

[Joker]

Al is over-rated. He is limited offensively and timid. He is better than average defensively. For what Al brings and also what Al do not bring, trade him for what makes sense. Signing Kris Humphries brings more than Al.

He's can't be that limited. Seen him since his first year in the league. The Hawks have four guys given the right situation can score 20ppg in this league. Al is one of them. We can't help we just don't run a real offense, have a true PG, move the ball around, and other things that effect the impact of Al. Severely underused is what Al is the minute Bibby was traded. He was the unanimous All Star from our team from NBA players, former players, and the media. He was the one everyone felt was an All Star. He was 3rd team All NBA in his 4th season. Yep, that's overrated. LOL at the better than average on defense. Number wise, defensively, he is one of the best defenders in the NBA and is our best on ball defender regardless of position on tape. Like I said before, don't let emotions play with logic. Stats say Al is very good. Tape said Al is very good. Usually that equals to you are very good. Stats says his shooting % is class. Tape said he is excellent on the move. Tape said he is very athlete. Overrated my a$s.

[Johnnybravo4]

He's can't be that limited. Seen him since his first year in the league. The Hawks have four guys given the right situation can score 20ppg in this league. Al is one of them. We can't help we just don't run a real offense, have a true PG, move the ball around, and other things that effect the impact of Al. Severely underused is what Al is the minute Bibby was traded. He was the unanimous All Star from our team from NBA players, former players, and the media. He was the one everyone felt was an All Star. He was 3rd team All NBA in his 4th season. Yep, that's overrated. LOL at the better than average on defense. Number wise, defensively, he is one of the best defenders in the NBA and is our best on ball defender regardless of position on tape. Like I said before, don't let emotions play with logic. Stats say Al is very good. Tape said Al is very good. Usually that equals to you are very good. Stats says his shooting % is class. Tape said he is excellent on the move. Tape said he is very athlete. Overrated my a$s.

There are lies, damned lies and then there are statistics. All is a solid player but not a game changer. No one goes into the paint worried about Horford. He's Udonis Haslem, nothing more.

[Admin]

Some of you who are putting Horford down are only remembering the Horford at the end of the season who was clearly playing injured and not the guy who earned an All-Star berth and is highly regarded among other coaches and announcers around the league. Al certainly has his limitations but he is a terrific young player who gets better every year and should continue to get better and better.

Al is over-rated. He is limited offensively and timid. He is better than average defensively. For what Al brings and also what Al do not bring, trade him for what makes sense. Signing Kris Humphries brings more than Al.

Timid is probably the most ridiculously incorrect thing I've ever heard someone call a player. If you want to say he's not a game changer or a superstar and maybe even a star then fine but to call him timid is just ... comical.

[Kimsey]

I believe about 10.5% of this, no offense to nba as this is outstanding food for thought type stuff. It's been well known ownership has been "shopping" JS but the stance is still the same with them slightly over valuing him as they should.

[99PROBL3MS]

So addition by subtraction could mean: ATL adds Rip Hamilton but loses 1) Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford 2)or Josh Smith and Jamal Crawford 3) or Joe Johnson and Josh Smith? That sounds more like Subtraction by Subtraction. It sounds like they are ready to get back into the lottery again.

Edited June 21, 2011 by 99PROBL3MS

[Swatguy]

Timid is probably the most ridiculously incorrect thing I've ever heard someone call a player. If you want to say he's not a game changer or a superstar and maybe even a star then fine but to call him timid is just ... comical.

Really? There have been many times Al faded against bigger aggressive players. Lopez, Big Baby, Dwight, CHICAGO, Hell I saw David West Scowl towards him to the bench and I thought Al might pee. Several scribes have written about it and in private discussions.

I'm afraid he has gone "Euro". I'd rather have Humphries with Reggie Evans backing him up.

[warcore]

So addition by subtraction could mean: ATL adds Rip Hamilton but loses 1) Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford 2)or Josh Smith and Jamal Crawford 3) or Joe Johnson and Josh Smith? That sounds more like Subtraction by Subtraction. It sounds like they are ready to get back into the lottery again.

I wouldn't necessarily say get back into the lottery again. Maybe getting into the lottery through a future unprotected pick and the cap relief from dumping.

The Hawks could compete as a lower seed with just Al, Teague and all the expirings, whatever that may be. Then the big name free agents see a team that's competing, getting young assets, and have the money to sign them.

[Diesel]

I wouldn't necessarily say get back into the lottery again. Maybe getting into the lottery through a future unprotected pick and the cap relief from dumping.

The Hawks could compete as a lower seed with just Al, Teague and all the expirings, whatever that may be. Then the big name free agents see a team that's competing, getting young assets, and have the money to sign them.

Two questions.

1. How can you not say get back to the Lottery. Look around, teams are getting better. NY, Indy, Milwaukee, Philly will all surpass what we could put on the floor.

2. Cap Relief for what??? This is got to be the biggest lie ever told. Cap Relief doesn't change this team 1 Iota. When I hear people talking about trading for Cap Relief, I realize that those are people who don't care about the product on the floor.

Not trade for Help.

Not trade to fix holes.

Not trade to remove a log jam.

Trade to have more money that will not help us.

We can have 1 Billion dollars under the cap, we will still have to overpay to get FAs to come here.

You have a star... Even though he's not Lebron or Wade.. Why not first try building a Complete team with him on it. Sheez, it worked for Dirk. Even if Joe has to become the secondary player, can we at the least have a complete team?? There's nothing near complete about what we have and we're one of the 8 best in basketball.

The other biggest lie ever told is that we're not capable of winning with what we have?

If Hinrich comes back in game 5, we beat Chicago and go on to the ECF.

That's with Josh Jacking up dumb shots and Horf playing like a wuss and Jamal going coocoo for threes and missing.

Let that sink in before you hit the reply button.

I say we're a real big man and an impactful Sf away from a title.

[Admin]

Really? There have been many times Al faded against bigger aggressive players. Lopez, Big Baby, Dwight, CHICAGO, Hell I saw David West Scowl towards him to the bench and I thought Al might pee. Several scribes have written about it and in private discussions.

I'm afraid he has gone "Euro". I'd rather have Humphries with Reggie Evans backing him up.

Al has also put up big numbers against all or at least most of those players and teams. I do think that Al has gotten a little too interested in his jumper, even though he's among the best in the league at it, but it wouldn't be an issue if we had a center playing next to him that played in the paint. As it stands now if Al is out of the paint, where he is highly efficient when healthy BTW, we don't have anyone else in our starting 5 that will get down into the paint and do the dirty work.

I'm hoping that you're being sarcastic with that last statement as they wouldn't even allow Kris Humphries into the All-Star game if he showed up with a naked Kim Kardashian let alone based on his play as we've seen with Al in consecutive years.