What would Babcock do?

[Diesel]

Being a historian on the board, I want to go into the dieselputer files and analyze our situation and figure out, what would Babcock do. Most of the time, Babcock would bring home a decent trade, but he had his share of blunders. IN todays NBA being at the helm of the Hawks, here's what Babcock would do:

He'd trade Josh Smith for Kaman. Why do I say that?

Welp, Babcock was always good for trading stars at their peak, but he could never get the players who were at their peaks in return.

So, it would be a trade for Howard - which would be reminenscent of Danny Manning.

It wouldn't be a trade for Cousins - which would be reminencent of J.R. Rider.

Instead it would be a trade for a guy like Kaman. More like Big Dog or Norman. A guy at the end of his rope who has very little to offer and doesn't expand our ability one bit.

The real question is what will Sund Do?

[uga2006]

He would see if Ed Gray,Ira Newble and Hanno Mottola still had something in the tank.

[Wretch]

Babs was OK at some trades...what he truly sucked at was the draft. In every aspect of it. So if it was a trade involving draft picks, that guy would hose us. Player for player swaps...

Rumeal for Mookie...

Spud/Lang for Laett...

Willis for Long/Smitty...

Not bad...and although Rider turned out bad, I can't say I didn't see the motive for the trade. He got 2 quality SG's for the price of an aging one. One of them just happened to be missing half of his brain. Rider was a beast of a talent. He was just crazy as hell.

Me thinks Babs would find a gem somewhere right about now. Maybe Cousins. Devin Harris would have been here last year...and we wouldn't have hired Drew. He would have gotten us a coach - either an outside of the box choice or somebody with some cred. I mean, he got us Lenny...and for all his tight rotations and flat out refusal to play young guys, he knew how to coach a damn team. Especially defense. Contingent upon freedom to spend (*AHEM*A$G*) Babs would have gotten us Adelman or a handful of these other guys that slipped to other teams.

No clue what these owners and management will do though.............

Don't forget about Ratliff/Nazr for Mutombo was it? Don't have time to Google, but it was Nazr wasn't it?

...and Reef for the #3, not too terribly bad at the time. Didn't really turn out so well as Gasol has really become a player. But who knew that then? I didn't want to trade the pick, but we got a guy that MANY of us were drooling over for years.

[macdaddy]

Its not just Babcock its what would a good gm do. Last year we got Hinrich and that got us out of the first round but that was it. I know BK and Woody are gone but we are still milking this Detroit Pistons model and we've done pretty well with it. We are just failing to put the last, most important piece of the puzzle in which is Rasheed.

The Pistons were good, Hawks good, until they got Rasheed. He was one of the best PFs in the league at the time and it made them champions.

[Sothron]

Apparently the dieselputer is as faulty as it ever was. Babcock was gold in trades. His only failing was in the draft and frankly we never had that many high value picks. The problem was that the guys we did pick were generally either out and out busts or bench depth masquerading as first rounders.

I agree that Babs probably would have hired Adelman. I do know Adelman's agent contacted the A$G a few years ago but they didn't want to pay him. As for who he would trade now? He'd probably do everything imaginable to get Dwight here and to pair him and Josh together.

[coachx]

Welp, Babcock was always good for trading stars at their peak, but he could never get the players who were at their peaks in return.

Please give me some examples for what you believe is reality..................I'll give you 5 that prove your reality wrong.

He traded Nique when he was 34 and in the last year of his contract. Nique wanted big money. Then market reality spoke and Nique played out a 1 year contract with a rebuilding Celtics team and 1 year contract with the pre-Duncan, lottery bound, Spurs team before going to Europe.

He traded Steve Smith once he was in obvious decline when he was 30. His knees were shot.

He traded Mookie when he was 32 and in obvious decline.

He traded Mutumbo when he was 34 and in obvious decline.

Kevin Willis was traded at 32 and never averaged over 10 rpg again.

I cannot recall 1 allstar caliber player that Babcock traded when they were in their prime. He trades guys while they still have some left but they were all out of their primes and in their 30's.

Edited January 4, 2012 by coachx

[AHF]

Babcock was a very good trader but the worst drafter in NBA history. Seriously. His draft record makes BK's picks look like rocket science.

2002 2 36 David Andersen

2001 NBA 1 3 Pau Gasol

2001 NBA 2 33 Terence Morris

2000 NBA 1 6 DerMarr Johnson

2000 NBA 2 40 Hanno Mottola

2000 NBA 2 57 Scoonie Penn

1999 NBA 1 10 Jason Terry

1999 NBA 1 17 Cal Bowdler

1999 NBA 1 20 Dion Glover

1999 NBA 1 27 Jumaine Jones

1998 NBA 1 20 Roshown McLeod

1998 NBA 2 49 Cory Carr

1997 NBA 1 22 Ed Gray

1997 NBA 2 49 Alain Digbeu

1997 NBA 2 50 Chris Crawford

1996 NBA 1 28 Priest Lauderdale

1995 NBA 1 16 Alan Henderson

1995 NBA 2 42 Donnie Boyce

1995 NBA 2 45 Troy Brown

1995 NBA 2 57 Cuonzo Martin

1994 NBA 2 34 Gaylon Nickerson

1993 NBA 1 15 Doug Edwards

1993 NBA 2 40 Rich Manning

1992 NBA 1 10 Adam Keefe

1992 NBA 2 38 Elmer Bennett

1991 NBA 1 9 Stacey Augmon

1991 NBA 1 15 Anthony Avent

1991 NBA 2 30 Rodney Monroe

1990 NBA 1 10 Rumeal Robinson

1990 NBA 2 36 Trevor Wilson

1990 NBA 2 41 Steve Bardo

Alan Henderson might be the greatest pick Babcock made (ironically the Gasol pick was a BK selection) and Hendu is remembered somewhat bitterly by Hawks' fans for his overpaid/chronically injured game. Just brutal drafting.

The above lists his 13 first round picks and 16 second round picks he made with the Hawks, 5 of which were top 15, 3 of which were top 10. He didn't draft one "plus" starter other than JT who wasn't a "move the needle" player in Atlanta.

Thank goodness he was able to trade and sign Mutombo, trade for Mookie, trade for Smitty, trade for Laettner, trade for Long, etc.

Edited January 4, 2012 by AHF

[Diesel]

Apparently the dieselputer is as faulty as it ever was. Babcock was gold in trades. His only failing was in the draft and frankly we never had that many high value picks. The problem was that the guys we did pick were generally either out and out busts or bench depth masquerading as first rounders.

Babcock was Gold in trades??? Starting the dieselputer up...

1. Babcock trades Franchise player Dominique while Hawks were the best team in the East for Danny Manning.

2. Babcock trades Franchise player Steve Smith for J.R. Rider and Jim Jackson. Rider didn't make it past February.

3. Babcock trades Tony Kukoc for Big Dog.

4. Babcock trades both Starting PG and SG away in the same year ?

5. Babcock traded Jumaine Jones away for Nothing?

6. Babcock traded our other 2001 first rounder for a second rounder?

There are others, but let's start tarnishing your gold here.

[Diesel]

Please give me some examples for what you believe is reality..................I'll give you 5 that prove your reality wrong.

He traded Nique when he was 34 and in the last year of his contract. Nique wanted big money. Then market reality spoke and Nique played out a 1 year contract with a rebuilding Celtics team and 1 year contract with the pre-Duncan, lottery bound, Spurs team before going to Europe.

He traded Steve Smith once he was in obvious decline when he was 30. His knees were shot.

He traded Mookie when he was 32 and in obvious decline.

He traded Mutumbo when he was 34 and in obvious decline.

Kevin Willis was traded at 32 and never averaged over 10 rpg again.

I cannot recall 1 allstar caliber player that Babcock traded when they were in their prime. He trades guys while they still have some left but they were all out of their primes and in their 30's.

Uhm... Steve Smith made strong playoff runs with PTL and won a ring with San Antonio after leaving the Hawks.

Deke anchored the Philadelphia 76er team that went to the finals.

ABOUT Kevin Willis, I'm not going to mention that he played 12 more years after he left or that he played less minutes and backed up the likes of Alonzo or Hakeem well. But I wasn't made at the deal we got for Willis. Nor Mookie. However, you have to be stone stupid to trade your whole starting backcourt for bench reserves and a draft pick.

[Sothron]

Babcock was Gold in trades??? Starting the dieselputer up...

1. Babcock trades Franchise player Dominique while Hawks were the best team in the East for Danny Manning.

2. Babcock trades Franchise player Steve Smith for J.R. Rider and Jim Jackson. Rider didn't make it past February.

3. Babcock trades Tony Kukoc for Big Dog.

4. Babcock trades both Starting PG and SG away in the same year ?

5. Babcock traded Jumaine Jones away for Nothing?

6. Babcock traded our other 2001 first rounder for a second rounder?

There are others, but let's start tarnishing your gold here.

The only bad trade you listed was the trade for Rider. You also leave out his several excellent trades and you seem to have amensia about how much money was left on Steve Smith's contract with his bad knees or that Nique as THIRTY FOUR at the time of the trade was beyond done. The money we saved by not giving Nique a contract (or resigning Danny Manning) was directly used to get Dikembe here and that was a golden move.

The only bad trade Babs ever made for this organization was for Rider. We can argue details if you want but there's no way any honest appraisal of Babs doesn't come up with two findings on any puter:

He was excellent at making trades

He was horrible at drafts

[Diesel]

The only bad trade you listed was the trade for Rider. You also leave out his several excellent trades and you seem to have amensia about how much money was left on Steve Smith's contract with his bad knees or that Nique as THIRTY FOUR at the time of the trade was beyond done. The money we saved by not giving Nique a contract (or resigning Danny Manning) was directly used to get Dikembe here and that was a golden move.

The only bad trade Babs ever made for this organization was for Rider. We can argue details if you want but there's no way any honest appraisal of Babs doesn't come up with two findings on any puter:

He was excellent at making trades

He was horrible at drafts

My gosh. I could have put in the good but you say excellent?

We gave up 2 1st round picks #18 in 2000 and #8 in 2002 for Lo Wright (RIP).

We gave up Jumaine Jones (another first rounder) for nothing.

We gave up Tone Kukoc and another first for Big Dog.

So in 2002, we could have had Amare Stoudamire or Caron Butler. In 2000, Q-Rich. But instead, we got LO Wright?

We could have had Pau Gasol.

Do you still feel good about Jason Terry, Alan Henderson, and a 1st rounder for the Antoine Walker rental we got? That pick could have been Wilson Chandler or Aaron Brooks or Arron Affalo.

Let me give you this bottom line. As you look at how he squandered draft picks in these "golden" trades, you will know why we have never progressed.

[capstone21]

(ironically the Gasol pick was a BK selection)

We drafted Gasol for Memphis. I don't think we would have picked him if we kept the pick instead of traded it. If I remember correctly, we were after Shane Battier until the trade for SAR came around. SAR was much better then Battier.

[coachx]

Uhm... Steve Smith made strong playoff runs with PTL and won a ring with San Antonio after leaving the Hawks.

Deke anchored the Philadelphia 76er team that went to the finals.

ABOUT Kevin Willis, I'm not going to mention that he played 12 more years after he left or that he played less minutes and backed up the likes of Alonzo or Hakeem well. But I wasn't made at the deal we got for Willis. Nor Mookie. However, you have to be stone stupid to trade your whole starting backcourt for bench reserves and a draft pick.

All of those guys were in their 30's and past their primes. The Hawks teams with Mookie, Smith, Corbin, Long, and Mtumbo was well past their peak. Every starter was over 30 and the Hawks had just been swept out of the 2nd round of the playoffs to the lower seeded Knick team.

[AHF]

(ironically the Gasol pick was a BK selection)

We drafted Gasol for Memphis. I don't think we would have picked him if we kept the pick instead of traded it. If I remember correctly, we were after Shane Battier until the trade for SAR came around. SAR was much better then Battier.

The guy who made the Gasol pick for Memphis....Billy Knight.

I agree Babcock would never have used the pick on someone as good as Gasol. I was just pointing out why he couldn't be credited with drafting Gasol even though Gasol technically shows up for us.

* * * *

Diesel lists Babcock's worst trade ever of Lo Wright for two unprotected first round picks that ended up being picks that were or could have been Amare Stoudemire and Quentin Richardson. Just a brutal, brutal trade.

Edited January 5, 2012 by AHF