Enough is ENOUGH Larry Drew! MAKE SOME FREAKING CHANGES!

[willthepureshooter]

So Squawkers, we all see our team struggling against the bottom teams in the league and the much stronger teams in the league. Its very frustrating from the fans to see lackadasical effort, defensive mistakes, missed FREEthrows, turnovers, and bad coaching judgment. Its becoming a more and more often scene with Drew and his staffs' ineffectiveness when preparing for opponents this season (except Orlando). The same looks from the sidelines: Drews blank stare with folded arms, Lester Conners mean-mug with his fist under his chin, Nick Van Exels headshake, and Kenny Gattisons horrible post halftime interview.

But who do we blame for the inconsistent play? Joe, Josh, Teague, Marvin? How about Drew and his staff?? Yes! But, why should we blame the coaching staff? Its simple! Our staff refuses to make lineup changes when they're needed. Look at all of the top-tier teams and how they operate. It doesn't matter how good you are or how long you've been in this league, the top teams coaches bench players that aren't performing. Rivers, Thibodeu, Popavich, Carlisle, etc. have all benched important players on their respective teams due to not performing.

My big gripe with Larry Drew and the coaching staff is their panicked and hurried insertion of Kirk Hinrich into the lineup. Why, you ask? Its not rocket science! We were 13-5 before Kirk Hinrich was reacclimated into the lineup on Jan. 25th against San Antonio. We lost that game by 22pts!!! What could possibly be the reason for the loss? Bonner went absolutely bonkers on us, shooting 5-7 from the 3pt strike. Tim Duncan grabbed 11 boards and Tiago Splitter made Zaza look like -- Zaza. So, I refuse to blame this loss on the premature insertion of Kirk Hinrich. BUT!!!! Since the return of Hinrich we've gone 5-6! And in terms of basketball, that's more of a chemistry problem.

So what is Kirk really doing out there on the court this season?

MPG: 18.5

PPG: 5.3 <--------- Absolutely crazy when considering his minutes.

STL: 0.5

AST: 2.7 <---- Not bad given his minutes

Rebs: 1.5

FG: 38% <------- Alarming when you consider what we're asking from him off the bench

FT: 63% <-------- Waaaay lower than his career average.

3PT: 28% <--------- Could it contribute to his shoulder injury?

TO: 1.3

Player Efficiency Rating: 8.6

Win Share Per 48 Minutes(WS/48): .022 <------- League average is at .100 fellas

Defensive Win Share: 0.2

Ofeensive Win Share: -0.1

These are Hinrich's numbers according to the substitution combinations (via 82games.com):

5-Man Units

Top Five-Man Floor Units

http://www.82games.com/1112/11ATL3.HTM

Now, lets look at his statistics and effectiveness when he's either at the PG or SG position...

Production by Position

Minutes Net Pts Off Def Net48 W L Win%

PG: 12% -27 90.4 97.3 -6.9 4 6 40%

SG: 1% +19 116 72.2 43.8 5 1 83%

Min represents the percentage of the team's total minutes the player was at that position. W and L are not adjusted in this instance by quality of opponent while at that position in a game.

The Net48 number shows the average +/- net points over a full game.

Like I've said for a long time on this board, Hinrich should play a bulk of his minutes at the SG position while Pargo plays PG. He's a much better player when he plays off-the-ball. I don't understand why Drew continues to ignore Hinrichs weaknesses and strengths. I'm totally lost.. smh

Marvins production has fallen off for the past two seasons and its beginning to erk me when Drew keeps starting him every game. I'm not going to waste much time on Marvin because we all know how ineefective he is at the rim. And we know how streaky he can be away from the rim. According to basketball-reference.com, Marvins Win-shares are similar to Loy Vaught. Who's Loy Vaught you ask? He was a 1st rd bust selected by the LA Clippers (13th overall) in the 1990 NBA Draft. History has a habit of repeating itself eh?

Marvins Numbers....

MPG: 24.3

PPG: 9.8

FG: 42%

3PT: 44%

FT: 75%

Reb: 5.5

Ast: 1.2

Lets take a look at his shot selection...

Attempts eFG% Asst'd Blk'd Pts

Jumpshot 67% .493 83% 1% 5.2

Close 25% .490 56% 18% 1.9

Dunks 3% .714 40% 14% .4

Tips 4% .333 0% 11% .2

Inside 33% .493 48% 16% 2.5

As you can see, majority of Marvins scoring is due to teammates finding him open. A telling sign that Marvins becoming less aggressive by not driving and creating his shots. His conservative attitue has hurt his numbers greatly.

Of his 33% of attempted shots inside, Marvin has only managed to make 49%. With 48% of those shots being assisted, and 16% of those 33% attempts being blocked. He averages a disturbing 2.5pts inside the paint at 6'9!! Wtf??? I have nothing else to say about this guy. He lacks effort and it seems like he's more about getting by and becoming a scholar with his degree. The back surgery was a nother way for him to avoid amnesty and a possible early season trade.

Marvin should be benched until his hunger to play in the NBA comes back again. Or if it ever comes back again. He seems too content with being a starter.

In order for our team to want to win again, they have to see a will to win from the coaches. As a coach, you have to make your team believe that you're ready to make any changes in order to make your team successful. Drew has to bench Marvin and find out a better way to mesh Hinrich with the team to so that he can be more effective. He has to trust his bench when they're playing at an high level. Pargo should've never been thrown to the way-side as soon as Kirk arrived, given the exceptional job our bench was doing. Point guards are the life-blood of a teams chemistry, and Drew disturbed that flow by immediately throwing Hinrich in the lineup. Hinrich's a good player but under the circumstances he should've been gradually worked into the flow of the team.

I think Drew should give Stackhouse more minutes at the SF spot since we're stuck with his contract this season. Even though he's old, he can still knock down those jumpers from the corners. I've also noticed that he plays good defense so why not give him a couple minutes. Around 6 minutes a game should be appropriate to see if he can provide a spark from the bench.

Drew has to trust Teague. I think Kirks return has applied too much pressure on Teague. It seems as though Drew has maybe threatened Teagues starting position because he's looking very up-tight on the floor. This offense is at its highest when it works through Teagues aggressive play. Must I repeat, WE ARE NOT A HALFCOURT TEAM!! DREW WE CAN'T BE EFFECTIVE AT HALFCOURT WITH A SIZE DISADVANTAGE!! SEEMS LIKE COMMON SENSE TO ME, BUT DREW DOESN'T GET THE OBVIOUS.

Please Drew, don't give up on Ivan Johnson. He's a rookie thats going to make rookie mistakes. He plays hard and wants to win. Don't bury him on the bench once he makes a mistake.

Radmanovich needs to get more playing time. When he's confident, the three-ball is second nature to him. I've noticed in previous games when he's hot from the floor Drew benches him. Why? Seems like someone's stubborn.

And can Drew please cuss-out Joe and Josh in the locker room. Geez! Gets some testicles between your legs! I mean the guy says nothing at all when guys play lackidasical on the court. Atleast Woody would chump the starters off when they're playing like girls.

Drew needs to take up for his players and get a tech next game! Let's turn this season around!!! GO HAWKS!!!!

[coachx]

This roster is limited when its totally healthy..........much less when they are without their two time allstar C/PF.

No need in making Drew and Marvin out to be the scape-goats.

People should not be suprised to see a player coming off shoulder surgery to struggle with their shooting percentage. He could not shoot basketball for months. He is still a plus defender who makes little mistakes.

I would like to see Teague and Hinrich get more minutes together when the matchups are right. Obviously last night vs. the Lakers was not one of those matchups.

Our only hope is for everyone to stay healthy and for Horford to be able to play come playoff time.

Edited February 15, 2012 by coachx

[macdaddy]

This roster is limited when its totally healthy..........much less when they are without their two time allstar C/PF.

No need in making Drew and Marvin out to be the scape-goats.

People should not be suprised to see a player coming off shoulder surgery to struggle with their shooting percentage. He could not shoot basketball for months. He is still a plus defender who makes little mistakes.

I would like to see Teague and Hinrich get more minutes together when the matchups are right. Obviously last night vs. the Lakers was not one of those matchups.

Our only hope is for everyone to stay healthy and for Horford to be able to play come playoff time.

I agree with you. Its not much of an exaggeration to say we've got two maybe three guys who are legitimate nba starters. Its three if you count Hinrich. I like Teague a lot but he's still not running this team and he's the starting pg. The only lineup change that i see feasible is teague/green/joe/josh/zaza. But that only works against teams without a strong 3. Tmac can't start. I don't believe Stack could hang in a tight game. He just looks too slow to guard anyone.

Our options are limited. I do think that Pargo did a good job and didn't deserve to get buried just because Hinrich came back though.

[willthepureshooter]

I agree with you. Its not much of an exaggeration to say we've got two maybe three guys who are legitimate nba starters. Its three if you count Hinrich. I like Teague a lot but he's still not running this team and he's the starting pg. The only lineup change that i see feasible is teague/green/joe/josh/zaza. But that only works against teams without a strong 3. Tmac can't start. I don't believe Stack could hang in a tight game. He just looks too slow to guard anyone.

Our options are limited. I do think that Pargo did a good job and didn't deserve to get buried just because Hinrich came back though.

I think Teague's playing more off fear again and thats not good. When he's comfortable, Teague expands the basket almost 4ft with those incredible floaters in the lane. I contribute a lot of his discomfort to Drews inability to chastise the captains on our team. He has to make it clear to Teague that its his show and that our offense works through him. Since Teagues emergence, its hurting us when we keep working through Joe instead of working through the offense as a whole. We have a point guard now and Drew needs to remove iso-Joe plays from the majority of the game. Its like we're playing crippled when we don't need to. I think Stackhouse can provide 'heady' veteran defense and a consistent shooting threat from the corner. He's old, but he can still shoot fellas. And I totally agree with you about Pargo. I thought I was the only one on the squawk thats noticed Drews relentness to play him. He speeds up our tempo tremendously and puts us in the attacking mode.

[macdaddy]

I think Teague's playing more off fear again and thats not good. When he's comfortable, Teague expands the basket almost 4ft with those incredible floaters in the lane. I contribute a lot of his discomfort to Drews inability to chastise the captains on our team. He has to make it clear to Teague that its his show and that our offense works through him. Since Teagues emergence, its hurting us when we keep working through Joe instead of working through the offense as a whole. We have a point guard now and Drew needs to remove iso-Joe plays from the majority of the game. Its like we're playing crippled when we don't need to. I think Stackhouse can provide 'heady' veteran defense and a consistent shooting threat from the corner. He's old, but he can still shoot fellas. And I totally agree with you about Pargo. I thought I was the only one on the squawk thats noticed Drews relentness to play him. He speeds up our tempo tremendously and puts us in the attacking mode.

Holding onto Crawford last year was a mistake even though it did get us out of the first round. Holding onto Hinrich will be a monumental mistake this year with Horford out. It'll be interesting to see what we can do with him. So you'll probably get your wish in a few weeks with Hinrich being traded and Pargo coming back as our backup pg. Pargo/green/tmac/rad/zaza is a good second unit because these guys always bring energy. Hinrich does too but he doesn't seem to click with Green and rad the way pargo did.

[willthepureshooter]

Holding onto Crawford last year was a mistake even though it did get us out of the first round. Holding onto Hinrich will be a monumental mistake this year with Horford out. It'll be interesting to see what we can do with him. So you'll probably get your wish in a few weeks with Hinrich being traded and Pargo coming back as our backup pg. Pargo/green/tmac/rad/zaza is a good second unit because these guys always bring energy. Hinrich does too but he doesn't seem to click with Green and rad the way pargo did.

Exactly!!

[cam1218]

It seemed when we were rolling early we had at least one guy off the bench hitting shots. Pargo had a lot of games where he came in and gave us some good offense. Other games he didn't shoot as much because Green, Rad, or T-Mac were hitting shots. It seemed there was always energy and offense coming from somewhere.

Now with Kirk coming off the bench it seems we are only getting offense from Green. T-Mac has had his spots, but he hasn't been really consistent. Rad finally looked alive against the Lakers. We really need to get Pargo some minutes with the second unit. I've been very disappointed Drew hasn't put him in the game that often.

I know Drew is very concerned (or so it seems) with changing the starting five, but we could really use some change. He doesn't seem willing to bench Teague, so we need change in either the starting SG or SF position.

I wouldn't be opposed to moving Joe to SF, sending Marvin to the bench, and starting Hinrich (defense) or Green (offense) depending on the matchup. Another option is moving Marvin to the bench and starting McGrady in hope that Marvin would feel more comfortable knocking down threes with the second unit. If he is playing well he could still finish out games with the starters. I just really think change would potentially bring more balance and really benefit this team right now.

Edited February 16, 2012 by cam1218

[DJlaysitup]

The thing that got on my nerves most about LD's coaching was his apparent decision that Ivan wasn't "long enough" to compete inside.

Unless I missed something (like Ivan being hurt) - I think that was simply dumb. Big strong guys MAKE their length by applying a body when needed. + Ivan brings energy and fears no man.

Shaking my head.

[JackB1]

This is what happens when you go cheap and hire the long time assistant coach. The players obviously

have no fear of Drew's wrath. Have u EVER seen Drew visibly upset with any of our players??? He lets

Josh shoot 3's and brick-jumper after brick-jumper....he lets Joe go 4-20 without sitting him down...he

doesn't reward the guys that bring energy all the time like Ivan, Zaza and Green. He keep starting Marvin even

though he's regressed the past 3 years and wouldnt start on any other NBA team. It appears to the observer

that the players run the show....not the coach.

[willthepureshooter]

Good win tonight but Drew sat Teague halfway through the 3rd quarter and the entire 4th. Teague finished with 16pts (7-12) and 2-3 from three point land. He had 5ast, 2stls, 1TO, and Drew decided to make him the scapegoat. Kirk played the entire half basically. Kirk had 5pts (2-8), 3asts, and 1stl for the entire game. I don't get Drews logic at all. Good win tonight..

[Admin]

Good win tonight but Drew sat Teague halfway through the 3rd quarter and the entire 4th. Teague finished with 16pts (7-12) and 2-3 from three point land. He had 5ast, 2stls, 1TO, and Drew decided to make him the scapegoat. Kirk played the entire half basically. Kirk had 5pts (2-8), 3asts, and 1stl for the entire game. I don't get Drews logic at all. Good win tonight..

Teague had awesome stats while the Hawks were getting blown out and the Suns shot nearly 70%. Kirk had mediocre stats while the Hawks made a big comeback and won the game while holding the Suns around 40% I belive in shooting. Point being that stats don't always tell the whole story.

[willthepureshooter]

Teague had awesome stats while the Hawks were getting blown out and the Suns shot nearly 70%. Kirk had mediocre stats while the Hawks made a big comeback and won the game while holding the Suns around 40% I belive in shooting. Point being that stats don't always tell the whole story.

I watched the game and we came back because Josh Smith and Willie Green went insane on offense. It also helped that Zaza was benched because he was getting abused on pick-n-rolls. JJ also contributed by locking down Grant Hill whom was killing us all first half and mid-way through the 3rd quarter. Kirk did nothing important tonight.

[hawkrule152]

Larry Drew: "I was going to pull Josh out early in 4th, but Joe said, 'Leave him out there. He's young.'

[Admin]

I watched the game and we came back because Josh Smith and Willie Green went insane on offense. It also helped that Zaza was benched because he was getting abused on pick-n-rolls. JJ also contributed by locking down Grant Hill whom was killing us all first half and mid-way through the 3rd quarter. Kirk did nothing important tonight.

So Nash not scoring in the 2nd half until the very end had nothing to do with the significantly better defense that Hinrich played on him compared to that of Teague

[willthepureshooter]

Larry Drew: "I was going to pull Josh out early in 4th, but Joe said, 'Leave him out there. He's young.'

That's the type of crap I'm talking about!! Drew has no faith at all in his players. Sounds like he was going to give up early and wave the white flag. We don't need a coach like that for our team!

[willthepureshooter]

So Nash not scoring in the 2nd half until the very end had nothing to do with the significantly better defense that Hinrich played on him compared to that of Teague

Nash barely did anything the first half when Teague was on him. He got a bs foul at the 3pt line.

Teague forced Steve Nash into 3 turnovers in the first half so how did Kirk have a better impact defensively? Plus Teague scored 9pts on nash within the first 4 minutes of the game. Were you watching the same game?

[Admin]

Nash barely did anything the first half when Teague was on him. He got a bs foul at the 3pt line.

Teague forced Steve Nash into 3 turnovers in the first half so how did Kirk have a better impact defensively? Plus Teague scored 9pts on nash within the first 4 minutes of the game. Were you watching the same game?

Suns shot almost 70% and Nash had I believe 15 points and close to 10 assists and was doing whatever he wanted out there while Teague was guarding him. What game were you watching?? What Kirk did was slow down Nash and that kept the other Suns from getting nearly as many open shots and thus we were able to shut them down in the 2nd half.

[willthepureshooter]

Suns shot almost 70% and Nash had I believe 15 points and close to 10 assists and was doing whatever he wanted out there while Teague was guarding him. What game were you watching?? What Kirk did was slow down Nash and that kept the other Suns from getting nearly as many open shots and thus we were able to shut them down in the 2nd half.

So its Teague fault that everyone else can't guard their man?? And 15pts?? Again, what game were you watching?? He had 11pts while Teague was guarding him during the game. Didn't he finish with 22pts and 16asts and isnt his name Steve Nash???

[Joker]

Jeff Teague is not a PG or even a good combo one who can run PG. We need a PG who can run the PnR. I don't care if that's a combo PG like Lin or Mayo.

[Jody23]

Hinrich's individual defense against Nash wasn't that much better than Teague's. He benefited because the Hawks decided to go zone in the fourth quarter from what I remember. With Smoove and Willie hitting shots and making that lineup look good, LD didn't want to make any changes. To a certain extent I can understand that, but make no mistake, the Hawks aren't even in a position to win that game without Teague's big contribution. I'm not trying to slam Hinrich, but keeping it 100. He was just on the floor at the right time.