Why does Atlanta refuse to get a real PG?

[Joker]

I guess the whole "not saying anything personal" thing is over now?

Hey man, that's crazy talk. You are much better than that. I almost feel you wrote this just to troll me. I seen your posts a lot, I know what type of poster you are. You have never been someone I thought was brainless. I always enjoyed your opinion even if I didn't agree but this is crazy. Conley is marginally better than Teague. That would get you slap and fired in NBA circles. That's like saying, Windows 7 is marginally better than Windows 95. That's just wrong man. That's like saying, Ron Harper is better than Michael Jordan. You see how crazy that sounds. Then you said Ramon Sessions in a sea of very good to great PG's and Kirk Hinrich is a PnR PG.

Seriously man. Seriously?

Edited May 21, 2012 by nbasuperstar40

[EazyRoc]

Superstar...are you REALLY in any position to be talking down on anyone ? You were the guy who spent the past couple of months preaching to us about Mayo at PG despite years of contradictory performance. You've become extremely condescending as if you really are some sort of expert. Horford is not an elite PnR player like Karl Malone for one reason. He doesn't have the elite hands that those kind of players tend to have. No...Conley is not one of the best PGs in the league. He's definitely not a top 5 and would barely crack my top 10 if I were to make a list. You are no expert. You are not an authority on scouting. Stop acting line you are.

[Duff_Man]

Don't cherry pick. I know the difference between you're and your. I just don't give a ...

Now you know how we feel about your Teague opinions.

[Sothron]

nba: you should chill with the personal attacks. You may disagree with someone but some of these comments are too much. I agree with most of what you are preaching in this thread but there's no need to get nasty with people over it.

[Admin]

nba: you should chill with the personal attacks. You may disagree with someone but some of these comments are too much. I agree with most of what you are preaching in this thread but there's no need to get nasty with people over it.

Agreed and nbasup I hope you listen to this and take it to heart. You are really coming off as condescending and some sort of expert and nobody here are going to respect that without the proper credentials. So please try and show people more respect and I also ask everyone else, myself included, to show him respect in return.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

IMO, Van Exel has done good job up to this point into making Teague into a great PG... Given Teague is FAR from being CP3 or a true pass-first PG at this point, but he made major steps this season. It's only his 3rd season, 1st full playing season. Let's bring this thread up again once Teague hits his 5th-6th season and analyze (or critic) his PG skill set then. As he is now, Teague is not a starting PG, but he is the best thing we have had since possibly Spud Webb at the position. People like to bitch about Matt Ryan too (Like to say he lacks arm strength, isn't great in the pocket, can't throw the deep ball accurately, etc.), but I know there are 5-10 teams in the NFL that would gladly take Matty Ice off the Falcons hands.

[EazyRoc]

Mookie and JT were better, but I understand what you meant. I want to see if he continues to improve.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Mookie and JT were better, but I understand what you meant. I want to see if he continues to improve.

I forgot about Mookie. Would love if Teague would develop into MB 2.0. They actually are very similar players.Mookie:http://www.nba.com/historical/playerfile/index.html?player=mookie_blaylock-----Teague:http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jeff_teague/

[Diesel]

Mookie and JT were better, but I understand what you meant. I want to see if he continues to improve.

I don't think JT was a better PG. JT was just as tentative and not as good defensively. I think Teague deserves another year.

[Joker]

I got cha Dolfan.lol, Diesel. You know your my favorite poster to throw under the bus. No hard feelings.

[Joker]

Superstar...are you REALLY in any position to be talking down on anyone ? You were the guy who spent the past couple of months preaching to us about Mayo at PG despite years of contradictory performance. You've become extremely condescending as if you really are some sort of expert. Horford is not an elite PnR player like Karl Malone for one reason. He doesn't have the elite hands that those kind of players tend to have. No...Conley is not one of the best PGs in the league. He's definitely not a top 5 and would barely crack my top 10 if I were to make a list. You are no expert. You are not an authority on scouting. Stop acting line you are.

Doesn't have elite hands? I wouldn't say he has elite hands and I wouldn't say he doesn't. To be honest, it is really not that important unless you have brick hands like Kwame. Horford already proved he is an elite PnR PF by is ability, talent, tools, and stats under Bibby. He had the highest convergence rate at the PnR in the NBA two years ago. I used to have the statistics. But it's on my old PC. Elite hands? lol. I don't even know what that means. You either have good hands or you don't. Elite hands is some video game trait. No one cares unless you can't catch the ball.I stated a thousand times, Mayo is not a true PG either but he's a #1 option who can fill up the stat sheet like Arenas. I want Mayo because I didn't see it possible to get Nash or Deron. So you might as well get a #1 option if you can't get a true PG.I wouldn't say I am an expert by any stretch but I know the game extremely well and I am a very good judge of talent. Once guys are pros, my fail rate is extremely low.Conley is one of the best PG's in the league using advanced stats, on the tape, and from talking to some in the industry. Ask former and current PG's about Conley. Too many fans look at stats when some systems aren't based around guard play like Memphis. Conley ability overall is extremely underrated and his defense is one of the best for NBA PG's as well.It's fair to say Conley is Memphis best player by a good margin. Even more so than Marc Gasol who is a top 5 true center and Z-Bo who is one of the better PF's in the NBA. Gay is also a good player. You can say what you want but I don't agree and I don't see a real Basketball mind agreeing either.I would literally take Conley over Rondo and not even think twice about it. Less flaws, better tools, Conley is a superior PnR player, and both are very effective defenders. Rondo is an All Star level player and is great in Boston but that personnel is build to hide his flaws. I don't think he would be that lucky on most NBA teams. Maybe the Hawks but not that many.My top 10. You don't have to agree and probably won't.Westbrook from sheer overall talent and tools standpointRose healthyCP3DeronConleyParkerRondoLawsonRubioS. CurryNashI am no authority or close but when you say stuff like Conley is marginally better than Teague, that shows a complete lack of understanding when it comes to Basketball. That's like saying Aaron Brooks is a better QB than Peyton Manning.

[Joker]

nba: you should chill with the personal attacks. You may disagree with someone but some of these comments are too much. I agree with most of what you are preaching in this thread but there's no need to get nasty with people over it.

You and Dolfan are right on this. I need to chill. nire is a quality poster. He didn't deserve that.My list is wrong. Nash is right behind Rondo. Not behind Curry. Edited May 21, 2012 by nbasuperstar40

[Joker]

The top 4 is interchangeable.Westbrook from sheer overall talent and tools standpointRose healthyCP3DeronThe next four are star PG's.ConleyParkerRondoNashUp and coming PG's in the NBA.LawsonRubioS. CurryIrving should be in there. I forgot about him. He's just as good as Rubio, Lawson, and Curry.

[Duff_Man]

How did this thread end up with a Sixpoint Diesel Stout in it? I have Sixpoint Apollo and Resin in my fridge right now.

[Joker]

How did this thread end up with a Sixpoint Diesel Stout in it? I have Sixpoint Apollo and Resin in my fridge right now.

LOL! I don't even know who created all that for Diesel to being with.

[niremetal]

I am no authority or close but when you say stuff like Conley is marginally better than Teague, that shows a complete lack of understanding when it comes to Basketball. That's like saying Aaron Brooks is a better QB than Peyton Manning.

When you keep accusing me of having "a complete lack of understanding" of basketball, it makes your "apology" seem rather hollow.I would argue that rating Mike Conley as the 5th best PG in the NBA is absurd. I would argue that hating on a guy who was among the 10 most efficient shooters among PGs in the league this year is absurd. And I certainly would argue that it's absurd to compare my statement "Conley is marginally better than Teague offensively" to saying "Aaron Brooks is better than Peyton Manning." And I bet I could find a lot of quality posters around here who would agree with me.Everyone knows you hate Teague and love Conley. But lots of people disagree with your assessment of both. The only thing that is "crazy talk" in this thread is your claims to know what NBA GMs think of the relative quality of players. We're fans. Not experts. Don't pretend otherwise. Edited May 21, 2012 by niremetal

[Joker]

I don't hate Teague. I like Conley. I love Kobe, Melo, CP3, D12, TD, and Lebron. I like Conley. Hell, I like Teague as a player, just not as a starting PG for my team. I hate him in that role. I am about to leave but later on, I will get a lot of adv stats like RAPM and what not. Actually I would say it's more like saying Windows 7 is marginally better than Windows 95 kind of silly but hey.You are literally saying one of the best PG's in the NBA who runs an offense at a very high level is on par with someone who can't run an offense who also isn't that talented and you want me to take you serious on this subject. That's like telling me basic math is as hard as Calculus 3. If you find posters here who agree with you, that not a positive sign for a fan-base at all.nire, I got love for you, I really do. But not on this subject.

Edited May 21, 2012 by nbasuperstar40

[Sothron]

I think Conley is more than marginally better than Teague. Conley's rep took a hit I think his first two years in the league when he wasn't the immediate superstar PG that many thought he'd be. He's an efficient PG and he runs a good offense in Memphis. I'd much rather have Conley than Teague.Speaking of Teague my problems with Jeff are rather simple: I want to see if he can run the offense. He has two problems in that regards: both Joe and Josh handle the ball far too much and Josh esp. seems to refuse to give the ball to him to run it up the court to get into sets or when Josh has the ball to give it up so Jeff can run a play in the halfcourt. Then you have too many instances where our offense stalls because Joe or Josh just dribble on the perimeter and there is no motion.We need a better offense and having a dedicated PnR offense would do just that.

[Joker]

I think Conley is more than marginally better than Teague. Conley's rep took a hit I think his first two years in the league when he wasn't the immediate superstar PG that many thought he'd be. He's an efficient PG and he runs a good offense in Memphis. I'd much rather have Conley than Teague.Speaking of Teague my problems with Jeff are rather simple: I want to see if he can run the offense. He has two problems in that regards: both Joe and Josh handle the ball far too much and Josh esp. seems to refuse to give the ball to him to run it up the court to get into sets or when Josh has the ball to give it up so Jeff can run a play in the halfcourt. Then you have too many instances where our offense stalls because Joe or Josh just dribble on the perimeter and there is no motion.We need a better offense and having a dedicated PnR offense would do just that.

Jeff Teague's usage rate is just as high as Steve Nash. He has the ball in his hands a lot and just as long as Nash.You can't run a PnR offense if the PG has no court vision, can't read screens, has low BBIQ, only wants to score off of a pick as if he's Jamal, can't run an offense, forget plays, never gets the ball in spots the players want, can't create. He has so many simple issues the advanced ones would be far to complex to even think about. Edited May 21, 2012 by nbasuperstar40

[niremetal]

You are literally saying one of the best PG's in the NBA who runs an offense at a very high level is on par with someone who can't run an offense who also isn't that talented and you want me to take you serious on this subject. That's like telling me basic math is as hard as Calculus 3.

This is all your opinion, and you're still being very condescending, talking as if you're some kind of expert on this subject. I don't think Conley is a top 5 (or even a top 10) PG in the NBA today. I rate Rose, CP3, Deron, Westbrook, Nash, Rubio, Parker, Rondo, Harris, Wall, Curry, and Irving (not in that order) ahead of him. I put him in the next tier of PGs - alongside solid starters like Calderon and Lawson. He's a good distributor, but not so good that it makes him elite in light of his (IMHO) mediocre on-ball defense and streaky shooting. I'd rate Teague in the tier right below that, comparable to guys like Felton and Holiday - starting-quality, but with obvious holes in their games.To me, that difference is marginal. The success or failure of replacing a guy in Teague's tier with one from Conley's tier will turn more on that player's "fit" than on that player's talent/skill. Put most PGs in Hollins' system, including Teague, and I bet you get around 6apg from him. Put them in a Nellieball system, and I think Teague would run circles around Conley. On the other hand, put any PG outside CP3/Deron/Rose/Westbrook/Nash in our ball-stoppers paradise, and I bet you get a PG who looks like he can't run anything.It all comes down to this: I just don't think Conley is an elite PG. You do. And I do think that if Teague played on a team where he actually got the opportunity to develop flow and rhythm, he'd prove himself to be a solid starter. You don't. I don't think Teague will ever be mistaken for Rose or CP3, but then again I don't Conley will either. I bet you'd agree with that.In any case, I don't think this team would become an instant contender if we simply swapped out Teague for Conley. The improvement would be (here's that word again) marginal. Edited May 21, 2012 by niremetal