For the Scouts on the board.

[coachx]

Playing next to Zaza and Joe is the same as playing next to Kobe and Bynum. Great job Dol and everyone knows Josh has a low eFG% so that's a dead giveaway.

Ignorance is bliss slogan was made for this post. Edited June 7, 2012 by coachx

[Joker]

..... ...

I hate the idea, I just hate it. It's not going to change. I don't like it. It leads us to the same thing but with different issues. I hate the situation we are in now and this is the same damn thing. I have zero interest in Gasol. Zero. There is a reason why LA would do this deal and not think twice.

Ignorance is bliss slogan was made for this post.

Agreed since Kobe and Bynum equals Zaza and Joe.

[Admin]

Smith is not efficient on offense. Basically what we already know which is why NBA execs snubbed him.

So then by that logic Pau must be highly efficient on offense since he matched Smith's PER with far less usage? And then considering that they're even defensively in PER that must mean that... oh never mind you're never going to admit that you are wrong.

[MaceCase]

I already discussed in previous threads that his leading in Defensive Win Shares was a result of him also leading in minutes played (it's a cumulative stat) and in this thread that he's only "anchored" 1 top ten defense in his entire career.Great defender, yes. Transcendent one, no. He can easily be duplicated and replaced entirely by lesser players and with different schemes.

[Joker]

So then by that logic Pau must be highly efficient on offense since he matched Smith's PER with far less usage? And then considering that they're even defensively in PER that must mean that... oh never mind you're never going to admit that you are wrong.

Pau is efficient but he is playing next to Kobe and Bynum. They will inflate his efficient. You keep acting like Joe and Zaza equals Kobe and Bynum when it doesn't even come close. Be realistic, we are talking about a guy in Gasol who had guys like Odom, Kobe, Artest, and Bynum while comparing him to the bad fit Hawks. On the Hawks, he would be no where near as effective.

I already discussed in previous threads that his leading in Defensive Win Shares was a result of him also leading in minutes played (it's a cumulative stat) and in this thread that he's only "anchored" 1 top ten defense in his entire career.Great defender, yes. Transcendent one, no. He can easily be duplicated and replaced entirely by lesser players and with different schemes.

Jamal Crawford and Mike Bibby. There is only one transcendent defender and his name is Dwight Howard. Edited June 7, 2012 by Joker

[Admin]

Pau is efficient but he is playing next to Kobe and Bynum. They will inflate his efficient. You keep acting like Joe and Zaza equals Kobe and Bynum when it doesn't even come close. Be realistic, we are talking about a guy in Gasol who had guys like Odom, Kobe, Artest, and Bynum while comparing him to the bad fit Hawks. On the Hawks, he would be no where near as effective.Jamal Crawford and Mike Bibby.

Riight... because Pau would never be able to hit the open jumpers that Josh misses. Pau would never be able to score in the post like Josh does without having Bynum and Kobe pull the pants down on Pau's defender, which is clearly the only way that Pau is able to score in the post.

[Joker]

Riight... because Pau would never be able to hit the open jumpers that Josh misses. Pau would never be able to score in the post like Josh does without having Bynum and Kobe pull the pants down on Pau's defender, which is clearly the only way that Pau is able to score in the post.

Pau is better offensively. He will still do what he does, it will just not be as easily in Atlanta due to his supporting cast. Josh takes a lot of bad shots as well. Pau doesn't but Pau isn't really that aggressive and is much better when someone is creating his offense in some ways. Kobe with his attention he demands and Odom was major as well. No one in Atlanta creates for anyone.

[Admin]

Pau is better offensively. He will still do what he does, it will just not be as easily in Atlanta due to his supporting cast. Josh takes a lot of bad shots as well. Pau doesn't but Pau isn't really that aggressive and is much better when someone is creating his offense in some ways. Kobe with his attention he demands and Odom was major as well. No one in Atlanta creates for anyone.

There is far more than enough talent in Atlanta for Pau to be an excellent offensive player. Hell he never played with guys the caliber of Joe and Horford while in Memphis and never had any trouble there.

[Joker]

I don't see him as an excellent offensive player. Just a very good one. You are overrating him in my opinion. I don't see how this makes Horf or Joe any better as well. In fact, it's more of the same. redundancy for Horf and Joe still will be doubled and I can see Pau going into a mental box as he does in LA and in Memphis.The ball will never move well with Jeff at PG so that irreverent as well. I see more of the same not to mention his regression.

[Joker]

If Gasol is an excellent offensive player, Josh is a good one. In my opinion, he isn't nor is Gasol excellent at anything. Gasol is like Joe, none of them are elite or excellent anything, but very good or good at most.You can't win in the NBA that way. Those are Robin's.

[Admin]

If Gasol is an excellent offensive player, Josh is a good one. In my opinion, he isn't nor is Gasol excellent at anything. Gasol is like Joe, none of them are elite or excellent anything, but very good or good at most.You can't win in the NBA that way. Those are Robin's.

What exactly is your point? Because you're all over the map in this and other related threads. I'm guessing you'll only be satisfied if we get a superstar for Josh and I'm sorry to break it to you but that's not going to happen.

[coachx]

If Gasol is an excellent offensive player, Josh is a good one. In my opinion, he isn't nor is Gasol excellent at anything. Gasol is like Joe, none of them are elite or excellent anything, but very good or good at most.You can't win in the NBA that way. Those are Robin's.

All you expect out of trading one Robin is to get another Robin. At least Gasol as a set of skills that this roster is currently lacking. Our offense would be far more balanced.No one is trading us Batman for Robin. Our only shot at a Batman is getting lucky with a lottery pick. Edited June 7, 2012 by coachx

[Joker]

All you expect out of trading one Robin is to get another Robin. At least Gasol as a set of skills that this roster is currently lacking. Our offense would be far more balanced.No one is trading us Batman for Robin. Our only shot at a Batman is getting lucky with a lottery pick.

Combining robins don't win you titles. We have a Batman if we get the right pieces to use him in that way. No team has won a title or came close with nothing but Robins. The Detroit team was the closest and they had a great unit that fit. Big Ben on the boards and the anchor. Sheed can defend bigger player man and can post up. Billups was clutch and he can run an offense in his sleep. Rip was the movement specialist. Prince was the defensive specialist on the perimeter. They had a deep bench as well.The Hawks have no bench outside of Zaza. They have no #1 option. They have no center with size, Zaza is a center but he doesn't have the best size. They have no PG. Teague is a 6th man type. You take away what Josh does and add what Gasol does, nothing changes. Now if you add what Gasol does with Smith combined, you have a prime KG like player. That would help us a million.

[Admin]

Combining robins don't win you titles. We have a Batman if we get the right pieces to use him in that way. No team has won a title or came close with nothing but Robins. The Detroit team was the closest and they had a great unit that fit. Big Ben on the boards and the anchor. Sheed can defend bigger player man and can post up. Billups was clutch and he can run an offense in his sleep. Rip was the movement specialist. Prince was the defensive specialist on the perimeter. They had a deep bench as well.

The Hawks have no bench outside of Zaza. They have no #1 option. They have no center with size, Zaza is a center but he doesn't have the best size. They have no PG. Teague is a 6th man type. You take away what Josh does and add what Gasol does, nothing changes. Now if you add what Gasol does with Smith combined, you have a prime KG like player. That would help us a million.

Who exactly is this Batman that you're referring to that the Hawks have?

[Joker]

Who exactly is this Batman that you're referring to that the Hawks have?

Horford. He is the only player on this team capable of avg 24 ppg while maintaining high efficiency while helping the team win more games. But he can't create his own shot and needs a PnR PG to even come close to that. Joe can get more efficient, so can Marvin. So can Josh. Jeff is Jeff, he will get more efficient with exp but he is close to his ceiling in that regard.

[Admin]

Horford. He is the only player on this team capable of avg 24 ppg while maintaining high efficiency while helping the team win more games. But he can't create his own shot and needs a PnR PG to even come close to that. Joe can get more efficient, so can Marvin. So can Josh. Jeff is Jeff, he will get more efficient with exp but he is close to his ceiling in that regard.

Horford is not going to increase his scoring average by 10 points per game because he doesn't have any sort of back to the basket game.

[Diesel]

Horford. He is the only player on this team capable of avg 24 ppg while maintaining high efficiency while helping the team win more games. But he can't create his own shot and needs a PnR PG to even come close to that. Joe can get more efficient, so can Marvin. So can Josh. Jeff is Jeff, he will get more efficient with exp but he is close to his ceiling in that regard.

Scout the only way you can say somebody is capable of something is if they have done it. Horf hadn't had a week where he has averaged 24.

[Joker]

Horford is not going to increase his scoring average by 10 points per game because he doesn't have any sort of back to the basket game.

He does have a back to the basket game if in a favorable position. Ask Rathburn, Sund, or most NBA guys about Horford in the post. In fact, tweet Coach Cal. He can bang, he just isn't that good at it. He more like Bosh in the post than Randolph.

[Admin]

He does have a back to the basket game if in a favorable position. Ask Rathburn, Sund, or most NBA guys about Horford in the post. In fact, tweet Coach Cal. He can bang, he just isn't that good at it. He more like Bosh in the post than Randolph.

Man here's another WTF moment... Horford is a bull in a china shop in the paint, not someone who has a natural back to the basket post game, ala Tim Duncan or Dirk Nowitzki. I love Horford, but he's a guy who has to muscle his way in and hope for the running hook or the mid-range jumper to get most of his points. He's just far too mechanical to have a back to the basket type of game.

[Joker]

Man here's another WTF moment... Horford is a bull in a china shop in the paint, not someone who has a natural back to the basket post game, ala Tim Duncan or Dirk Nowitzki. I love Horford, but he's a guy who has to muscle his way in and hope for the running hook or the mid-range jumper to get most of his points. He's just far too mechanical to have a back to the basket type of game.

Of course not, he's a PnR PF. I don't know how I missed this post earlier. Horf has to be in the right position to post players up. He can't just do it naturally or he looks like an athletic Shelden.