What I hate about the Joe Johnson apologist...

[thecampster]

We ALL know Joes contract is awful. His most loyal fans (I'm talking back to Arkansas) will admit his contract is awful. However, the idea that Joe is actually good angers me. Joe Johnson isn't a top 15 SG in the NBA. His numbers would say otherwise, but when you look at them closely, you will see most of the time Joe gets 5-7 useless points at the end of most games. In reality, most nights, Joe has a "tough night" every other night. Every time I look up he is 3-14 with 9 points or whatever.A list of SGS I would rather have (In no order)KobeWadeHardenMarshawn BrooksKevin MartinEric GordonManuStephon JacksonMarcus ThorntonWesley MatthewsJason TerryGerald HendersonPaul GeorgeOj MayoLandry FieldsDemar DerozanWes JohnsonThrow John Jenkins the guy we got in the draft the other night in there as well.Bottom line is this. Joe Johnson is a scrub at this point in his career. If you shoot 30 times a night, SOMETHING will drop. If Danny Ferry pulls this off, I will NEVER question him again.

I would like to take this moment and distance myself from this post. I never said Joe wasn't a good SG. I just said he's way over valued.Assume for a moment that there are 10 top tier contracts. 10 players that deserve the max. Then 10 more who deserve near max. Then 10 more who are in the 13-14 category. Joe is at the end of this group or below. He was 56 in PER this year among qualified players. In my world, I would prefer the 10-13 category player and 7-10 million in cap relief than over paying 7 million for Joe...that's just me.

[DarnShadyRefs]

We ALL know Joes contract is awful. His most loyal fans (I'm talking back to Arkansas) will admit his contract is awful. However, the idea that Joe is actually good angers me. Joe Johnson isn't a top 15 SG in the NBA. His numbers would say otherwise, but when you look at them closely, you will see most of the time Joe gets 5-7 useless points at the end of most games. In reality, most nights, Joe has a "tough night" every other night. Every time I look up he is 3-14 with 9 points or whatever.

A list of SGS I would rather have (In no order)

Kobe

Wade

Harden

Marshawn Brooks

Kevin Martin

Eric Gordon

Manu

Stephon Jackson

Marcus Thornton

Wesley Matthews

Jason Terry

Gerald Henderson

Paul George

Oj Mayo

Landry Fields

Demar Derozan

Wes Johnson

Throw John Jenkins the guy we got in the draft the other night in there as well.

Bottom line is this. Joe Johnson is a scrub at this point in his career. If you shoot 30 times a night, SOMETHING will drop. If Danny Ferry pulls this off, I will NEVER question him again.

Ouch

[Diesel]

And that matters now...how?

Why don't you try to find out how many other players in nba History has 6 allstars... then lets talk scrub?

[Bankster]

Hopefully this is just a hyperbole.

[NineOhTheRino]

Why don't you try to find out how many other players in nba History has 6 allstars... then lets talk scrub?

6 All Stars.

Scrub?but....All Star appearances rate up there with little league participation trophies and perfect attendance awards. Edited July 2, 2012 by NineOhTheRino

[MaceCase]

All Star appearances rate up there with little league participation trophies and perfect attendance awards.

"Tell me why you mad, son"

We riding with the greatness ;-)

[NineOhTheRino]

"Tell me why you mad, son"

We riding with the greatness ;-)

I guess ASG should consider hanging some Joe Johnson All Star banners.

Hey it is a good comeback at the scrub comment, but it does nothing to validate Joe Johnson's career as a Hawk. Sorry but I view the guy as a huge disappointment. He did the most when it mattered the least.

Edited July 2, 2012 by NineOhTheRino

[MaceCase]

I guess ASG should consider hanging some Joe Johnson All Star banners.Hey it is an good comeback at the scrub comment, but it does nothing to validate Joe Johnson's career as a Hawk. Sorry but I view the guy as a huge disappointment. He did the most when it mattered the least.

And have Phillips looking like the Boston Garden.

[ftown]

just because Joe is tapering off midway in this giant contract, doesnt negate all teh good things he had done for this franchise...how many more 13 win seasons would we have without himthat said, i think its time to go if they can move himGo Hawks!

[Bruhman91]

[Wretch]

...and he's likely to be a 7th time All-Star as well. I got nothing against Joe. He's just in the wrong position here. We lean on Joe as our #1 with supporting players around him that are nowhere near as good as other teams' #2.

[hawkman]

...and he's likely to be a 7th time All-Star as well. I got nothing against Joe. He's just in the wrong position here. We lean on Joe as our #1 with supporting players around him that are nowhere near as good as other teams' #2.

Yeah, it's not Joe, it's his contract.

[Diesel]

Yeah, it's not Joe, it's his contract.

This is still a stupid stand. So, you say Joe is likely to be a 7 time allstar.. OK. But we don't want him because of his contract?Ok, so I guess we should say hell no to Kobe and Dwight too. They have large contracts also.Before you go into need.. Let me say it's the level of comfort thing that I see with this rush to get rid of Joe. Because we have had Joe and we have only gotten to a certain level, it must be Joe. That's interesting seeing that Dwight hasn't elevated his team past the first round in the last two years. I figure we can go after and get whatever star you want and if we don't win with said star, we ignore everything and put the burden on them.How much better could we be if we got rid of Marvin's salary and added another star to this team?How much better could we be if we got a Coach who had seasoning and had been past the second round of the playoffs before?To me, to look at contract is a poor cop out. Contract has nothing to do with how we play on the floor.

[MVP23]

This is still a stupid stand. So, you say Joe is likely to be a 7 time allstar.. OK. But we don't want him because of his contract?Ok, so I guess we should say hell no to Kobe and Dwight too. They have large contracts also.Before you go into need.. Let me say it's the level of comfort thing that I see with this rush to get rid of Joe. Because we have had Joe and we have only gotten to a certain level, it must be Joe. That's interesting seeing that Dwight hasn't elevated his team past the first round in the last two years. I figure we can go after and get whatever star you want and if we don't win with said star, we ignore everything and put the burden on them.How much better could we be if we got rid of Marvin's salary and added another star to this team?How much better could we be if we got a Coach who had seasoning and had been past the second round of the playoffs before?To me, to look at contract is a poor cop out. Contract has nothing to do with how we play on the floor.

See, this is my point Diesel. The past few years, Joe has been invisible in the playoffs, and barely above mediocre in the season. My entire point is that we could easily do better at SG. We don't NEED Joe like some will have you believe, like the Lakers NEED Kobe, and the Magic NEED Dwight. He is easily replaceable.

[AHF]

First, that list is crazy and insulting to Joe.Second:

This is still a stupid stand. So, you say Joe is likely to be a 7 time allstar.. OK. But we don't want him because of his contract?Ok, so I guess we should say hell no to Kobe and Dwight too. They have large contracts also.

It isn't about the size of the contract, it is bang for your buck for the contract. Dwight's play makes his contract a great deal for his team. On the open market, he would fetch significantly more. Joe's play is not worth his contract and that gap is only going to grow in the next few years. Getting a max guy whose value exceeds his contract is attractive value. Getting a max player whose value is materially below that dollar value is not good value. With the penalties for being a tax payer in this CBA, getting good value for every dollar spent is a key for GMs so I understand the motivation.

...and he's likely to be a 7th time All-Star as well. I got nothing against Joe. He's just in the wrong position here. We lean on Joe as our #1 with supporting players around him that are nowhere near as good as other teams' #2.

I don't disagree with this either. There is a lack of depth at the SG position in the NBA today so Joe is likely to back into another All-Star appearance between his reputation and his lack of competition. He is far from a scrub but isn't near the value of guys like Dwight even though he is paid more. It is tough because I agree with D that giving up on Joe signals a larger rebuild but this team seems capped out where they are now and iti could get worse as JJ and Josh's salaries increase going forward.

[Diesel]

See, this is my point Diesel. The past few years, Joe has been invisible in the playoffs, and barely above mediocre in the season. My entire point is that we could easily do better at SG. We don't NEED Joe like some will have you believe, like the Lakers NEED Kobe, and the Magic NEED Dwight. He is easily replaceable.

Easily do better?This is your problem. You are shortsighted. You don't get a SG that can take on the double team, play good defense, score around 20 and is a model of efficiency and say you can easily do better?Maybe on your Xbox, you're conquering the world with Gerald Green or Landry Fields.. but you're not going to easily do better than Joe. I think you fail to realize that Joe's contributions help the overall team's ability. Maybe you don't understand the value of a guy who can create his own shot who is not a chucker?But you will learn.You will learn.More than likely though... once the lesson is given, you won't be around to accept it.

[MVP23]

Easily do better?This is your problem. You are shortsighted. You don't get a SG that can take on the double team, play good defense, score around 20 and is a model of efficiency and say you can easily do better?Maybe on your Xbox, you're conquering the world with Gerald Green or Landry Fields.. but you're not going to easily do better than Joe. I think you fail to realize that Joe's contributions help the overall team's ability. Maybe you don't understand the value of a guy who can create his own shot who is not a chucker?But you will learn.You will learn.More than likely though... once the lesson is given, you won't be around to accept it.

About 3 years ago I would have agreed.

[NineOhTheRino]

This is still a stupid stand. So, you say Joe is likely to be a 7 time allstar.. OK. But we don't want him because of his contract?Ok, so I guess we should say hell no to Kobe and Dwight too. They have large contracts also.Before you go into need.. Let me say it's the level of comfort thing that I see with this rush to get rid of Joe. Because we have had Joe and we have only gotten to a certain level, it must be Joe. That's interesting seeing that Dwight hasn't elevated his team past the first round in the last two years. I figure we can go after and get whatever star you want and if we don't win with said star, we ignore everything and put the burden on them.How much better could we be if we got rid of Marvin's salary and added another star to this team?How much better could we be if we got a Coach who had seasoning and had been past the second round of the playoffs before?To me, to look at contract is a poor cop out. Contract has nothing to do with how we play on the floor.

It's like a bad relationship or marriage. You get to the point where you could care less if she leaves you with nothing. Some of us have no interest in seeing Joe's slow-lethargic game anymore. Time for something different man.

[CWebb]

About 3 years ago I would have agreed.

Shooting wise, Johnson is more efficient now than three years ago.

[MVP23]

It's like a bad relationship or marriage. You get to the point where you could care less if she leaves you with nothing. Some of us have no interest in seeing Joe's slow-lethargic game anymore. Time for something different man.

Thank you