A lot of people drinking the Koolaid.

[Diesel]

Still not buying that anyone is saying Ferry is the second coming or that anyone believes we have a championship team. We're all happy that we're doing something that at least right now seems to be in a positive direction versus maintaining the status quo.

This isn't at all what BK did. BK got rid of every single player on a pretty crappy team and replaced them with rookies and flotsam for the purpose of losing as many games as possible. Last i checked we had an all star, a guy most think is an all star, and a promising young PG still around. So 3/5s of the team. In fact, with Zaza we are bringing back 4 of the 6 guys who made up the real team last year and one of the guys who's gone is the guy most despised as a player.

Keeping Al, Josh, and Teague and getting rid of Joe is the only move a smart gm would make. You don't trade talent in their prime unless you have a chance at putting a bunch of allstars together. You don't hold onto expensive, declining guys unless they are taking you to the conference finals every year.

John Wooden answers this way: Never mistake activity for achievement..

So we did something? What's next?

That's my point. What's really next. Don't blow smoke up my butt and tell me that there's some great master plan to get a top flight free agent here. Show me.

BTW.. This is exactly what BK did... If you look at a time vs time meter, this is the same thing BK did.

At least BK promised that he would build through the draft and he gave his Mantra. Ferry has been silent and has let people assume that he's going to get us a bigger star than JJ.

Truth is... This is still Atlanta. Dwight Howard is not walking through that door.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Diesel

[Randy]

Maybe the real plan is based on the theory "Offense sells tickets." Get more offense, at less cost + more tickets sold = more profit, less bored fans. I'm fine with Ferry even if that is the plan. At least he's doing something. BTW - for those that really love JJ so much, they should be happy - he now has a Batman with play next to. Should elevate his game a lot. If it doesn't then there is no one to blame for it.

[Randy]

double post

Edited August 3, 2012 by Randy

[sillent]

I don't disagree that we were not built to win a championship. However, we have not addressed the reason why we are not. That reason is PG and C. The real reason is Josh and Al. It's stunning for me to look up after all the smoke is cleared and we still have the log jam at PF with the two tweeners. Joe was no superstar but he was definitely a bonafide robin. It's like we took the Chicago Bulls without Micheal, traded away Pippen and Kukoc and said we're rebuilding with Horace Grant, Wennington, and BJ Armstrong and a ton of capspace.

My reference to the Kool-Aid is not about the loss of JJ.

It's about the real plan. Most folks think that there's something redeeming about these players who helped led NJ to the worst record in the franchises HIstory. Or that there's something redeeming about Harris. These guys have been hyped up to us as guys who could probably make a playoff run and absent of Joe we've added by subtracting... when the truth is that we're freeing cap space and this team will probably be rebuild through the draft. Ferry will keep cap Space around to listen to FAs but this team is built to run on the cheap.

So we're drinking the kool aid by being happy that we freed up cap space as well as keeping two of our best players and a promising guard in Teague? No way is your comparison to the Bulls acurate. We've already established that Josh was our best player last year and Horford got the nod of being one of our best players which pushes Joe to 3rd and Marvin to 4th possibly 5th behind Teague. This isn't kool aid this is common sense that was even clearer on the outside looking in. I commend Ferry for having the common sense to realize our biggest strengths. To top it off he added shooters to not only open the floor for our bigs but to help spread the floor for our penetrating guards. We now have more spacing, penetration and speed to increase fast break productions. He has quickly changed the culture to the type of Hawks basketball we have been waiting for for years. With Larry Drew's motion offense and having 5 sufficient offensive threats on the court at all times we are going to be a hard team to stop. Defense might be the only thing deserving questioning with the team we have currently constructed.

[macdaddy]

John Wooden answers this way: Never mistake activity for achievement..

So we did something? What's next?

That's my point. What's really next. Don't blow smoke up my butt and tell me that there's some great master plan to get a top flight free agent here. Show me.

BTW.. This is exactly what BK did... If you look at a time vs time meter, this is the same thing BK did.

At least BK promised that he would build through the draft and he gave his Mantra. Ferry has been silent and has let people assume that he's going to get us a bigger star than JJ.

Truth is... This is still Atlanta. Dwight Howard is not walking through that door.

How is this what BK did? You're telling me that the roster year one of the BK regime is similar to this one? I guess building around Boris Diaw is exactly the same as building around Josh, Al, Teague?

Ferry has offered a plan. He likes Josh, Al and Teague. He needs cap space to do anything and he believes the best way to improve the Hawks is through trades. These are all things he has said. The reason he hasn't a detailed an intricate master plan is because it doesn't exist. Not because he doesn't know what he's doing but because plans change. GMs don't control everything which is why they have to be able and ready to move quickly. At least we know he understands how to set himself up for success. Whether he can pull it off is a different story.

[AHawks89]

I just don't understand how you are okay with an early playoff exit, but not okay with "being a lotto team." For one, they both end up as the same results. Who cares if you make it to the 2nd round? You still end up empty handed regardless. Secondly, we are no were near a lotto team. It's pretty clear that your love for Joe has taken over you.

But hey, if you are okay with having no cap space, no hope, and leaving the playoffs early than what ever floats your boat.

Edited August 3, 2012 by AHawks89

[Supporter]

I just don't understand how you are okay with an early playoff exit, but not okay with "being a lotto team." For one, they both end up as the same results. Who cares if you make it to the 2nd round? You still end up empty handed regardless. Secondly, we are no were near a lotto team. It's pretty clear that your love for Joe has taken over you.

But hey, if you are okay with having no cap space, no hope, and leaving the playoffs early than what ever floats your boat.

I'd rather be a lotto team than what we have right now, hell, I would've said that even if Joe were still on the team

[AHawks89]

Either or we were in a hole with Joe. We have hope now. Hopefully, Atlanta will be an attractive destiny next off seasons for these big FA's.

[Supporter]

Either or we were in a hole with Joe. We have hope now. Hopefully, Atlanta will be an attractive destiny next off seasons for these big FA's.

Hopefully, but the darn ASG along with the fans will keep superstars from coming here. We can only hope to draft one through the draft, but we all know how that turned out

[macdaddy]

[Diesel]

So we're drinking the kool aid by being happy that we freed up cap space as well as keeping two of our best players and a promising guard in Teague? No way is your comparison to the Bulls acurate. We've already established that Josh was our best player last year and Horford got the nod of being one of our best players which pushes Joe to 3rd and Marvin to 4th possibly 5th behind Teague. This isn't kool aid this is common sense that was even clearer on the outside looking in. I commend Ferry for having the common sense to realize our biggest strengths. To top it off he added shooters to not only open the floor for our bigs but to help spread the floor for our penetrating guards. We now have more spacing, penetration and speed to increase fast break productions. He has quickly changed the culture to the type of Hawks basketball we have been waiting for for years. With Larry Drew's motion offense and having 5 sufficient offensive threats on the court at all times we are going to be a hard team to stop. Defense might be the only thing deserving questioning with the team we have currently constructed.

Yes. You are drinking the Kool Aid. 1. Cap Space doesn't win games. Ask the Wizards. Right now, we're following their plan. Only, they probably have an easier time getting FAs than we do. 2. Josh and Al are too good players but together they are a very bad/losing mix. Without a guy who can create for himself, this team is far worse than Joe's contract. 3. Josh is our best player?? In what world? Josh is our most impactful player but not best. Josh can't handle a double team. Watch what happens to "our best player" when he is the focus of the defense this year. We'd be lucky to get 14 points out of Josh. Do you think that teams not know who Josh is? They know exactly who he is. They know he can be a star but they also know he can be a very disruptive force for the team he plays for. They know when Challenged he will back down. That's not best player material. 4. Common Sense has to be proven again it seems. What it will show is that when you have a star player, you surround him with pieces that compliment his game. It works for every other championship team... However, for the Hawks, when we have such a player, we surround him with crap and then we trade him for capspace. That's been the case since Nique.

[Diesel]

I just don't understand how you are okay with an early playoff exit, but not okay with "being a lotto team." For one, they both end up as the same results. Who cares if you make it to the 2nd round? You still end up empty handed regardless. Secondly, we are no were near a lotto team. It's pretty clear that your love for Joe has taken over you.

But hey, if you are okay with having no cap space, no hope, and leaving the playoffs early than what ever floats your boat.

Nobody cares about lotto teams. No free agents want to go to lotto teams. Lotto teams have one thing about them... usually, they will be back. Look at Milwaukee. Look at Detroit. Look at Cleveland. Look at Toronto. There's one thing about those teams. They all suck and they all will return to the lottery. You can't tell me that you wasn't excited when we won home court advantage from the Bulls in the second round. You can't tell me that you were not ecstatic to see the rise of Jeff Teague in that second round. Guess what, that team needed a tweak. That team needed to let go of a Marvin or even a higher player on the chain and get some help in the frontcourt. However, what did we do. Stand Pat. We stood pat like we have done for the last 3 yrs and in doing so we missed out on an opportunity to make the right tweak.

Even with that...standing pat and losing Horf still netted us more wins in the regular season. Does that suggest it's time to start over again?

If what we have done doesn't result in us getting a better player, we've just wasted at least 3 seasons to do the same thing again.

[AHawks89]

Yo, I don't want to be a lotto team. Never. I was using that as an example.as in coming up empty handed. Now we have decent signings/more depth and room to sign some big names vs Joe's contract who ate the whole teams cap space and a early round exit.

Edited August 3, 2012 by AHawks89

[Plainview1981]

What about the same as. Maybe you missed it, but BK did the same thing when he came to town. Traded... JT, Theo, Big Dog, and Shareef.... and started over. For a moment, we had lots of capspace. Remember us wining and dining Damp and KMart? then settling for Antwain and Al? Remember how BK went Forward happy with his mantra... Long, Athletic. The only star FA we could bring in was JJ and we overpaid to get him? Well, Ferry has started the same process. Except, his mantra isn't long and athletic.. his mantra is fast and can shoot. We will be the team to make Harden a 100 Million dollar player.

Big Dog and Shareef were losers. Theo was a failure here also. I give JT props for building a solid career after he left here though.

[Plainview1981]

I hate to pull a KB here... But if you talk Win shares, Glenn Robinson wasn't very good either: http://www.basketbal.../robingl01.html The year Glenn was here he wasn't even worth 3 full wins.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Hotlanta1981

[sillent]

Yes. You are drinking the Kool Aid.

1. Cap Space doesn't win games. Ask the Wizards. Right now, we're following their plan. Only, they probably have an easier time getting FAs than we do.

2. Josh and Al are too good players but together they are a very bad/losing mix.(??) Without a guy who can create for himself, this team is far worse than Joe's contract.(??)

3. Josh is our best player?? In what world? Josh is our most impactful player but not best. Josh can't handle a double team. Watch what happens to "our best player" when he is the focus of the defense this year. We'd be lucky to get 14 points out of Josh.

Do you think that teams not know who Josh is? They know exactly who he is. They know he can be a star but they also know he can be a very disruptive force for the team he plays for. They know when Challenged he will back down. That's not best player material.

4. Common Sense has to be proven again it seems. What it will show is that when you have a star player, you surround him with pieces that compliment his game. It works for every other championship team... However, for the Hawks, when we have such a player, we surround him with crap and then we trade him for capspace. That's been the case since Nique.

Somebodies drinking the kool aid but it's not us!!

[Ruckus]

Somebodies drinking the kool aid but it's not us!!

Exactly what I was thinking. So you don't want to become a lotto team, you dont think top FAs will come here, and you think our team is horrible right now as is?? Gotcha. But why are you a fan again? You ate being about as logical as Skip Bayless and more dramatic than Stephen A. Smith.

[Diesel]

Exactly what I was thinking. So you don't want to become a lotto team, you dont think top FAs will come here, and you think our team is horrible right now as is?? Gotcha. But why are you a fan again? You ate being about as logical as Skip Bayless and more dramatic than Stephen A. Smith.

"Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it." -The Architect Hawkfan, I have been a fan of the Hawks since Fast Eddie Johnson and the fastbreaks. Obviously, i have seen more of this same than you have. Moreover, just like the Architect's quote... I have seen this scenerio played out with this franchise several time. You and silent are drinking the Kool-Aid. If you don't understand that FAs don't come here... just wait and see. I mean the fact that D-12 doesn't want to come here even if we gave him the most money and allowed him to play with his two best friends....in front of his hometown should tell you something. Moreover, Just because I'm a fan.. it doesn't mean that I'm gullible. I know the difference between rain drops and piss. Even as a fan, if you're peeing on me and calling it rain... I'm not going to smile and say this is some terrible weather we're having. However, from your comment, you expect it and you probably do it? Well, you can keep your piss filled naive fanhood and I will keep my fan with eyes wide open not afraid to call piss piss.

[Ruckus]

"Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it." -The Architect Hawkfan, I have been a fan of the Hawks since Fast Eddie Johnson and the fastbreaks. Obviously, i have seen more of this same than you have. Moreover, just like the Architect's quote... I have seen this scenerio played out with this franchise several time. You and silent are drinking the Kool-Aid. If you don't understand that FAs don't come here... just wait and see. I mean the fact that D-12 doesn't want to come here even if we gave him the most money and allowed him to play with his two best friends....in front of his hometown should tell you something. Moreover, Just because I'm a fan.. it doesn't mean that I'm gullible. I know the difference between rain drops and piss. Even as a fan, if you're peeing on me and calling it rain... I'm not going to smile and say this is some terrible weather we're having. However, from your comment, you expect it and you probably do it? Well, you can keep your piss filled naive fanhood and I will keep my fan with eyes wide open not afraid to call piss piss.

You are excellent at pointing out obvious flaws but offer no solutions. I know D12 is not coming here. Never thought he was. My point is you have to build within your means. If a superstar is not coming then you don't put your head between your legs and pout about it. You try within your means to get better. We all know that this years team isn't being built to win a championship. Nobody thinks we are or are drinking the so-called Koolaid. Are we that much worse than last year though? Prob not as much as some of you seem to think. And we are at least going to try and make a splash next offseason whether we land someone big or not. The only thing I'm calling piss is your outlook on inevitably everything. Lighten up a bit, bruh. We are lucky we even have a team. Ask the folks in Seattle.

[Diesel]

You are excellent at pointing out obvious flaws but offer no solutions. I know D12 is not coming here. Never thought he was. My point is you have to build within your means. If a superstar is not coming then you don't put your head between your legs and pout about it. You try within your means to get better. We all know that this years team isn't being built to win a championship. Nobody thinks we are or are drinking the so-called Koolaid. Are we that much worse than last year though? Prob not as much as some of you seem to think. And we are at least going to try and make a splash next offseason whether we land someone big or not. The only thing I'm calling piss is your outlook on inevitably everything. Lighten up a bit, bruh. We are lucky we even have a team. Ask the folks in Seattle.

When you remove the curtains, what you will see is that the plan is to build through the draft. You can't just say that because there's tickets to sale. So what do you say... You say... we're currently pursuing FAs or trades that make us better. IF you don't think we're lottery bound.. you're drinking the fresh Kool-aid that Ferry has made for you.

As a Man, I would rather Ferry just come out and say... we're going to rebuild this team through the draft and we will attempt to bring in free agents, but we won't overpay.

Here's the failing of some of the Atlanta Faithful. You believe that with next years infusion of cash that we will just go out and spend on whoever we want and they will come. Reality check:

1. They won't come without us overpaying.

2. We probably prefer to not spend a lot on players that doesn't guarantee championship.

3. This model of doing things always fall short.

"Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it."

This was quote #1. It explains how we do what we do and why it fails.

It fails because never do you see championship teams starting over from scratch and then only selecting winning talent. Championship teams have to be built. When you have a franchise with the FA reputation that we have, the building of a championship team becomes very difficult. I wish that some Trillionaire would buy the Hawks and spend what is necessary to get us to a level whereby we can be championship quality. Teach our fanbase that it's not about getting there with one big swoop but it's about building and planning and enjoying being there.

Instead, we get this... quote #2.

"There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept."

This is what the ASG says to us. They will forgo winning and wait through Ferry's plan of rebuilding. IN the meanwhile, the good that we have will become frustrated and leave.

SO you say I never offer solutions?? You don't know me so well I see.

Here's the fix.

Trade Smoove. RIght now his value is the highest it has ever been. Trade him for Gallinari and Mozgov.

What this does is allows Al to go to PF.

Zaza, Al, Gallinari, Williams, Teague.

We have a lot of guys that can play SG...but in the offseason, get a SG and a C.

Even though he's not my cup of tea, I would go strong for Bynum.

A Horford Bynum Front Court is liable to be hard to score against.

I would also strongly consider somebody like JJ Redick and probably resign Morrow (depends how he plays).

Point is that you can't lose with shooters and rebounders.