A lot of people drinking the Koolaid.

[Ruckus]

You've got passion. I'll def give you that. While I also like your plan, I fail to see how that will gain us a lotto pick. Also, Bynum would be very expensive and is injury prone. Going after Bynum is similar to the settling and overpaying that you agree we need to avoid. But I guess the risk is worth it for a top 4 center.

[DrReality]

Have a new nick name for Diesel..........The Koolaid Man

[Guest Walter]

Nobody cares about lotto teams. No free agents want to go to lotto teams.

Miami in 2009 is the closest team comparison to today's Hawk team. In 2008 they had 15 wins after shutting down Wade on March 10. In 2009 they were a playoff team but marginally so (where I think we should be) in an even weaker EC. However, they had about the same cap space as the Hawks will have next off-season. SIDE NOTE: For those here who are upset about what we got for JJ and MW, Miami had to wait 2 years for Shaq's money (in the form of players traded for) to come off their books, we have to wait 1. In both deals that is ultimately what this is all about. Money/flexibility and how soon. While we do not have a a Dwayne Wade superstar to recruit, we do have JS to recruit DH. Is that perfect? No. But frankly, this is the single best position I think this franchise could have hoped to be in, much less 1-week into the new GM's regime. I have some questions about Ferry's draft selections but I have none about his positioning us for the future when it was proven there wasn't one remaining on the same course. I think Miami is our course to follow, using friendship and talent rather than a Wade-like talent to possibly woo DH and/or perhaps another (breakout) FA. IMO, whether this works out doesn't determine whether it was or wasn't the right move. It was the right move. Now, however, is the 2nd act and whether the prodigal son returns or not doesn't shame the father for extending his hand in the first. W

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Miami in 2009 is the closest team comparison to today's Hawk team. In 2008 they had 15 wins after shutting down Wade on March 10. In 2009 they were a playoff team but marginally so (where I think we should be) in an even weaker EC. However, they had about the same cap space as the Hawks will have next off-season. SIDE NOTE: For those here who are upset about what we got for JJ and MW, Miami had to wait 2 years for Shaq's money (in the form of players traded for) to come off their books, we have to wait 1. In both deals that is ultimately what this is all about. Money/flexibility and how soon. While we do not have a a Dwayne Wade superstar to recruit, we do have JS to recruit DH. Is that perfect? No. But frankly, this is the single best position I think this franchise could have hoped to be in, much less 1-week into the new GM's regime. I have some questions about Ferry's draft selections but I have none about his positioning us for the future when it was proven there wasn't one remaining on the same course. I think Miami is our course to follow, using friendship and talent rather than a Wade-like talent to possibly woo DH and/or perhaps another (breakout) FA. IMO, whether this works out doesn't determine whether it was or wasn't the right move. It was the right move. Now, however, is the 2nd act and whether the prodigal son returns or not doesn't shame the father for extending his hand in the first. W

I would feel better about the Dwight Howard scenario if at any time in his career Dwight had said . . ."yeah, one day I MIGHT consider playing for the Hawks." Instead, we've gotten the opposite. He has flat out said that he doesn't want to play in Atlanta, nor have his agent said that Atlanta was one of his desired destinations. I don't think he wants anything to do with the pressure of playing for his hometown team. which is why we should've put together a package good enough for Orlando to take . . to FORCE him to play here for a year. Maybe if he were forced to play here, he would grow to appreciate and possibly even like playing here. If the Magic doesn't trade him between now and the trade deadline, we've left it up to his discretion for he and his agent to choose us. And I think that's a losing scenario for us.

[EazyRoc]

I would feel better about the Dwight Howard scenario if at any time in his career Dwight had said . . ."yeah, one day I MIGHT consider playing for the Hawks." Instead, we've gotten the opposite. He has flat out said that he doesn't want to play in Atlanta, nor have his agent said that Atlanta was one of his desired destinations. I don't think he wants anything to do with the pressure of playing for his hometown team. which is why we should've put together a package good enough for Orlando to take . . to FORCE him to play here for a year. Maybe if he were forced to play here, he would grow to appreciate and possibly even like playing here. If the Magic doesn't trade him between now and the trade deadline, we've left it up to his discretion for he and his agent to choose us. And I think that's a losing scenario for us.

Well its highly unlikely he makes it to the team he wants to play for unless Brook Lopez has an All NBA season and raises his own value. Otherwise, I think Orlando lets him walk.

[Diesel]

Well its highly unlikely he makes it to the team he wants to play for unless Brook Lopez has an All NBA season and raises his own value. Otherwise, I think Orlando lets him walk.

No, Orlando will get something for him. Right now, teams are waiting to low ball them with picks. I am not against giving up some picks for Howard. Here's the thing. IF we do that, we resign ourselves to the fact that if Howard don't want to stay we will be trying to deal with NJ and that means Lopez/Filler for Howard. While I'm not against that, you have to go into negotiations knowing that that might be the payoff.

[MaceCase]

No, Orlando will get something for him. Right now, teams are waiting to low ball them with picks. I am not against giving up some picks for Howard. Here's the thing. IF we do that, we resign ourselves to the fact that if Howard don't want to stay we will be trying to deal with NJ and that means Lopez/Filler for Howard. While I'm not against that, you have to go into negotiations knowing that that might be the payoff.

Starting 2013 teams that far above the lux tax cannot receive a player in a sign and trade. Unless he's moved to Brooklyn between mid-January to the February deadline then it ain't likely he's ever a Net until much further down the line in his career. Same is true if he's not traded to the Lakers before the deadline. Orlando is likely to let him walk or settle for a package from either of his three choices of destinations because no other team will offer anything of merit as long as Dallas remains capable of signing him outright in 2013. If he hits free agency then the Hawks and Dallas are his only viable destinations. If he still decides on Dallas then the Hawks will move on with all of their assets intact and numerous directions in which to move in. This is the very destination of flexibility, the koolaid that Danny Ferry has been peddling.

[MaceCase]

Damn iPhone autocorrect. Destination=Definition*

[sillent]

When you remove the curtains, what you will see is that the plan is to build through the draft. You can't just say that because there's tickets to sale. So what do you say... You say... we're currently pursuing FAs or trades that make us better. IF you don't think we're lottery bound.. you're drinking the fresh Kool-aid that Ferry has made for you.

As a Man, I would rather Ferry just come out and say... we're going to rebuild this team through the draft and we will attempt to bring in free agents, but we won't overpay.

Here's the failing of some of the Atlanta Faithful. You believe that with next years infusion of cash that we will just go out and spend on whoever we want and they will come. Reality check:

1. They won't come without us overpaying.

2. We probably prefer to not spend a lot on players that doesn't guarantee championship.

3. This model of doing things always fall short.

"Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it."

This was quote #1. It explains how we do what we do and why it fails.

It fails because never do you see championship teams starting over from scratch and then only selecting winning talent. Championship teams have to be built. When you have a franchise with the FA reputation that we have, the building of a championship team becomes very difficult. I wish that some Trillionaire would buy the Hawks and spend what is necessary to get us to a level whereby we can be championship quality. Teach our fanbase that it's not about getting there with one big swoop but it's about building and planning and enjoying being there.

Instead, we get this... quote #2.

"There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept."

This is what the ASG says to us. They will forgo winning and wait through Ferry's plan of rebuilding. IN the meanwhile, the good that we have will become frustrated and leave.

SO you say I never offer solutions?? You don't know me so well I see.

Here's the fix.

Trade Smoove. RIght now his value is the highest it has ever been. Trade him for Gallinari and Mozgov.

What this does is allows Al to go to PF.

Zaza, Al, Gallinari, Williams, Teague.

We have a lot of guys that can play SG...but in the offseason, get a SG and a C.

Even though he's not my cup of tea, I would go strong for Bynum.

A Horford Bynum Front Court is liable to be hard to score against.

I would also strongly consider somebody like JJ Redick and probably resign Morrow (depends how he plays).

Point is that you can't lose with shooters and rebounders.

You on something more than kool aid. How about you find another team and come back when you get off that stuff. You give Joe waaay to much credit if you think Josh, Al, Teague and company can't get us to the playoffs!! Your probably already a Nets fan in secret but maybe you'll get off the kool aid as the season starts and progresses.

[Diesel]

Starting 2013 teams that far above the lux tax cannot receive a player in a sign and trade. Unless he's moved to Brooklyn between mid-January to the February deadline then it ain't likely he's ever a Net until much further down the line in his career. Same is true if he's not traded to the Lakers before the deadline. Orlando is likely to let him walk or settle for a package from either of his three choices of destinations because no other team will offer anything of merit as long as Dallas remains capable of signing him outright in 2013. If he hits free agency then the Hawks and Dallas are his only viable destinations. If he still decides on Dallas then the Hawks will move on with all of their assets intact and numerous directions in which to move in. This is the very destination of flexibility, the koolaid that Danny Ferry has been peddling.

Knowing that his #1 choice is Brooklyn, teams will decide if there's something on Brooklyn's squad worth pursuing.

[MaceCase]

Knowing that his #1 choice is Brooklyn, teams will decide if there's something on Brooklyn's squad worth pursuing.

And I already told you that that doesn't make any sense. Dwight's window to get to Brooklyn is literally one month starting on January 15 once Lopez and Humphries are clear to be traded and February 21 which is the trade deadline. A team that isn't amongst his top destinations is not going to trade for him from Orlando with the panic idea that they'll give themselves 2 and 1/2 months to either convince him to stay or then flip him again to Brooklyn. Why even jump through those hoops and burn those assets given that tight time frame? That time frame only gets tighter the more that Orlando decides to wait. That doesn't even take into account:

a) what if Brooklyn is off to a hot start and doesn't want to ruin chemistry halfway into the season by jumping through hoops themselves again by facilitating another convoluted trade scenario?

b) what if Lopez turns out to be a 61 million dollar lemon? Is a team going to give up top assets just to enjoy 2 months of Dwight before moving him for an albatross "just because"?

Doesn't sound logical at all. He is either traded to Brooklyn, LA or Dallas by Orlando themselves or he hits free agency. That or he is traded to a team not amongst his preffered destinations most likely not minding a salary dump or with pie in the sky aspirations that he'll stay and he hits free agency. 2 out of 3 scenarios has it very likely that he hits free agency. 2 out of 3 scenarios has it that the Hawks will have a shot at him without jumping through hoops or burning assets setting the franchise back to the actual model that you think the team is currently headed in.

[Diesel]

And I already told you that that doesn't make any sense. Dwight's window to get to Brooklyn is literally one month starting on January 15 once Lopez and Humphries are clear to be traded and February 21 which is the trade deadline. A team that isn't amongst his top destinations is not going to trade for him from Orlando with the panic idea that they'll give themselves 2 and 1/2 months to either convince him to stay or then flip him again to Brooklyn. Why even jump through those hoops and burn those assets given that tight time frame? That time frame only gets tighter the more that Orlando decides to wait. That doesn't even take into account:

a) what if Brooklyn is off to a hot start and doesn't want to ruin chemistry halfway into the season by jumping through hoops themselves again by facilitating another convoluted trade scenario?

b) what if Lopez turns out to be a 61 million dollar lemon? Is a team going to give up top assets just to enjoy 2 months of Dwight before moving him for an albatross "just because"?

Doesn't sound logical at all. He is either traded to Brooklyn, LA or Dallas by Orlando themselves or he hits free agency. That or he is traded to a team not amongst his preffered destinations most likely not minding a salary dump or with pie in the sky aspirations that he'll stay and he hits free agency. 2 out of 3 scenarios has it very likely that he hits free agency. 2 out of 3 scenarios has it that the Hawks will have a shot at him without jumping through hoops or burning assets setting the franchise back to the actual model that you think the team is currently headed in.

Again, all the power is in Dwight's hand. If Dwight wants to go to Brooklyn (still) and his agent has worked out something, a team will have to figure out what they want from Brooklyn. Of course this lowers the rate of trade for Orlando. They should have been traded Dwight. What it means is that now Orlando will get a whole lot of low ball offers because of what you just speculated. Just imagine though..... what if a contender has 1 shot to get Howard and get a championship.

Imagine if: The thunder traded Perkins, Cook, Collison, and Mayo for Howard. Do you think that they wouldn't keep Howard for the whole season and would be fined if he walked after winning a championship?

Or the Clipps sending Jordan and Butler for Dwight?

Or Chicago sending Boozer, Deng, and Bellinelli for Dwight and Hedu.

It has become a buyers market with him and what a team wants to figure is can we win it all with him and if we get him do we lose a player that we don't mind losing.

[MaceCase]

Yea, I'm pretty sure I stated that the only other teams that would trade for Dwight are those not minding a salary dump. That's not the Hawks (anymore) and that's entirely dependent if Orlando weighs taking back bad salary as a better return than a clear slate. It's isn't entirely unusual for teams to lose superstars for next to nothing in free agency, it only happened with Amar'e, Bosh, Boozer, and Lebron 2 years ago, Nash, Terry, Lin and Asik this summer alone.

[Diesel]

Yea, I'm pretty sure I stated that the only other teams that would trade for Dwight are those not minding a salary dump. That's not the Hawks (anymore) and that's entirely dependent if Orlando weighs taking back bad salary as a better return than a clear slate. It's isn't entirely unusual for teams to lose superstars for next to nothing in free agency, it only happened with Amar'e, Bosh, Boozer, and Lebron 2 years ago, Nash, Terry, Lin and Asik this summer alone.

That's not the Hawks anymore? We have all ending contracts and a few draft picks. How is that not us? My contention is just get him here with Josh. Right now Orlando is in no position to demand Horf for Howard. However, if we gave them two first rounders and all ending deals, they would have to strongly consider it. But if we do such a thing and don't convince him to stay, odds are that we look at BKLNs squad and figure out what we want... Edited August 6, 2012 by Diesel

[EazyRoc]

No way we send Dwight to play with Derron Williams and Joe Johnson. It's not going to happen.

[Diesel]

No way we send Dwight to play with Derron Williams and Joe Johnson. It's not going to happen.

If Brooklyn or Dallas is going to get him anyway... Why shouldn't we prosper?

[EazyRoc]

If Brooklyn or Dallas is going to get him anyway... Why shouldn't we prosper?

Brooklyn isn't guaranteed to get him either. I'm not exactly certain the Magic would trade him in-conference now if they didn't before. If he goes to Dallas, oh well. However our road to the finals is already tough enough without adding another large obstacle.

[Diesel]

Brooklyn isn't guaranteed to get him either. I'm not exactly certain the Magic would trade him in-conference now if they didn't before. If he goes to Dallas, oh well. However our road to the finals is already tough enough without adding another large obstacle.

Fact is if Orlando trades him to anybody save Dallas or the Lakers... it's a very strong possibilityt hat he ends up on the Nets squad. Therefore, why not we facilitate the deal and try to better our team in the process. We cannot stop where Dwight goes, however, since we're rebuilding, if we can get some good pieces out of the deal, why not. Imagine if we got Marshon Brooks, Lopez, Reggie Evans and two first rounders for Dwight? Even though it might not be what you ultimately wanted... it really jumpstarts our rebuild. Especially if we don't give up a lot to get him.

[EazyRoc]

It's not a guarantee he ends up in Brooklyn, its just wild speculation. They don't have the money to sign him outright and any team that's interested in him without an extension probably plans to keep him. On top of that, I've heard something about an inability to do sign and trades like the old CBA so it would make him practically worthless to a team past the trade deadline as far as getting assets in a trade.

[Diesel]

The only thing that Ferry has done is what he intended to do... Clear the books.He moved two large contracts for ending deals.We don't care about Harris.We don't care about Morrow.We don't care about any of those guys from Jersey.We don't care about any of the guys with ending contracts.What about Smoove?Well, Ferry will play Smoove to bring in D-12. IF he can't... guess what.. we don't care about Smoove either.This team was built for one thing... stay under the cap. All this other talk is to keep people coming out but Ferry is going to use all that he has to try to build (probably through the draft).That's why we won't give up Horf and our draft picks for D-12.We will rebuild this as Teague/Horf's team... Everybody else is just visiting.

 

They called me Bitter two years ago?