Creating a different culture

[DrReality]

This is no simple task for Ferry. The two previous gm's did not seem to make conscious efforts to create a different culture. And there was little hope while they were in the midst of the court battle. Ferry seems to have taken a few positive steps. What other steps can be taken? Cuz cultures aren't hatched overnight but the falcons seem to have accomplished it ...many thanks to Blank

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

This is no simple task for Ferry. The two previous gm's did not seem to make conscious efforts to create a different culture. And there was little hope while they were in the midst of the court battle. Ferry seems to have taken a few positive steps. What other steps can be taken? Cuz cultures aren't hatched overnight but the falcons seem to have accomplished it ...many thanks to Blank

To give Sund the benefit of the doubt, Gearon Jr. was probably in his ear all the time about saving money and blaming Josh Smith. It's an absolute miracle that Josh is still here... Now that the owners have backed off and brought in a capable GM, I believe a winning culture will form here and will bring plenty of opportunity. The future is bright in Atlanta. I believe we are just a few years off to making a team to fight for a title and I see us being a sustaining organization too. Also, one of the best moves the Falcons have done is bring in TD to be the GM and Smitty as the coach. Two guys that have the same mindset and are on the same page. All of the players in Atlanta for all teams have to go through the filter to play us now. No riff-raft anymore.

[Wretch]

A culture change has been the #1 thing on my list for eons now. Probably since the end of the Mookie/Smitty/Deke era. There are some pretty important things that need to happen before the culture change can really take place:There has to be a reason to be excited about the team.There has to be a face for the franchise (not a 3rd or 4th tier player)We can't keep sending a mediocre squad into the buzzsaw of the East's eliteHonestly, this all starts with rebuilding the core around a true talent. Short of that, we have the same kind of team that we've trotted out for 4 years. That's not going to change the culture. You have to win and win big. If you can't win big, then you've got to put some dynamic talent on the floor that gets people talking - like they could be the future. Once you get that talent and establish that core then...You get a real coach, you get the right vets and free agents, and you market the shit out of these guys. If you manage to threaten for the title game or threaten for the championship, then you focus on maintaining/improving that at all costs.

[Swatguy]

This is no simple task for Ferry. The two previous gm's did not seem to make conscious efforts to create a different culture. And there was little hope while they were in the midst of the court battle. Ferry seems to have taken a few positive steps. What other steps can be taken? Cuz cultures aren't hatched overnight but the falcons seem to have accomplished it ...many thanks to Blank

Leadership,Leadership, Leadership. That is what have been missing. There has to be a bonafide leader on the court and at the end of the bench. The rotation players have to be good to very good to superstar. Above average means a hole. The bonafide (see alphadog) leader does not even have to start (see Zo) but he and the HC have to be on accord. Ah, what have Blank done especially. He fired the smartest football guy he has had (Reeves), hire Mora and took all of Vicks guards off (real smart considering millions were invested). Bought into a mediocre QB and sold us to an impact QB. Matty meltdown is neither impact and of course not franchise. What is the Falcons playoff record? We better be going after Chris Paul and Dwight strong. That would change the culture.

[Diesel]

This is no simple task for Ferry. The two previous gm's did not seem to make conscious efforts to create a different culture. And there was little hope while they were in the midst of the court battle. Ferry seems to have taken a few positive steps. What other steps can be taken? Cuz cultures aren't hatched overnight but the falcons seem to have accomplished it ...many thanks to Blank

i HAVE A few disagreements. 1. BK was successful in producing a new culture. It just reverted back to an old one. When ASG came in the culture was definitely different. We got rid of everything of the previous ownership and started off with fresh draft picks. Building from the draft with new orders = Long, Athletic, and versatile. That was definitely a new culture. Many of us were happy with Smoove and Childress.. Then Marvin and Joe.. (some). However, the Marvin hype wore off and the culture started to look like a failure. Then came Shelden and Acie. After that though, we made it to the playoffs. The culture was still new. Then we made it to the second round. Then we won a second round game under Sund. So there was signs of a different culture. However, not ever going passed the second round was the unraveling of that culture change. 2. Ferry hasn't done anything new. He scrapped everything old save Smoove and Horf. That's right out of the new GM's handbook... make room for yourself. No different than BK trading away JT, SAR, Big Dog, and Theo. Those guys were reminders of the guarantee. To change the culture, Ferry has to show the fanbase something. I'm not talking about the constant fan who is willing to wait. I'm talking about those fringe fans who want to see a big splash now. Ferry has to give them that. The one thing that will do that is bringing Dwight Home. If Ferry Brings Dwight home and he plays with Smoove... Ferry would have changed the culture. If Dwight then leaves, it wouldn't be Ferry's fault. Dwight would have to wear the villain hat. Ferry would win by default. Think about it.. if this year we went to war with D-12, Smoove, Morrow, and Williams... what true blood ATL fan would be upset with Ferry? That's Ferry's best move. Aside from that, he could bring in CP3... but it's not the same.

[DrReality]

Heard them talking about the Pats culture and that everyone in the organization down to the ball boy knew they were champs

[Diesel]

Heard them talking about the Pats culture and that everyone in the organization down to the ball boy knew they were champs

One thing about changing a culture is that you have to change the way that things are done from the bottom up. The bottom isn't the ball boy. The bottom is actually the fan. If you give the fan an experience... the Culture will change. Football is different. The game is the most entertaining thing. Nobody goes to football games for the cheerleaders or the halftime show. They go for the game because football prompts that winner gene. Basketball not so much. We like that winner gene prompted but more than that if we can have an experience with other fans during the game... it becomes better.

[Wretch]

i HAVE A few disagreements. 1. BK was successful in producing a new culture. It just reverted back to an old one. When ASG came in the culture was definitely different. We got rid of everything of the previous ownership and started off with fresh draft picks. Building from the draft with new orders = Long, Athletic, and versatile. That was definitely a new culture. Many of us were happy with Smoove and Childress.. Then Marvin and Joe.. (some). However, the Marvin hype wore off and the culture started to look like a failure. Then came Shelden and Acie. After that though, we made it to the playoffs. The culture was still new. Then we made it to the second round. Then we won a second round game under Sund. So there was signs of a different culture. However, not ever going passed the second round was the unraveling of that culture change. 2. Ferry hasn't done anything new. He scrapped everything old save Smoove and Horf. That's right out of the new GM's handbook... make room for yourself. No different than BK trading away JT, SAR, Big Dog, and Theo. Those guys were reminders of the guarantee. To change the culture, Ferry has to show the fanbase something. I'm not talking about the constant fan who is willing to wait. I'm talking about those fringe fans who want to see a big splash now. Ferry has to give them that. The one thing that will do that is bringing Dwight Home. If Ferry Brings Dwight home and he plays with Smoove... Ferry would have changed the culture. If Dwight then leaves, it wouldn't be Ferry's fault. Dwight would have to wear the villain hat. Ferry would win by default. Think about it.. if this year we went to war with D-12, Smoove, Morrow, and Williams... what true blood ATL fan would be upset with Ferry? That's Ferry's best move. Aside from that, he could bring in CP3... but it's not the same.

I agree and disagree... I think you're on the money that BK started a culture change. We were the youngest team in the league and we were the talk of the league in that sense. We signed Joe to the 1st Max contract and we had people talking. Joe went off, and we had some buzz. People talked about us like they were waiting for us to just get it right. The first mistake we made (outside of the draft) was not getting the right coach in here. We stumbled into the first year of the playoffs when we should have been able to clinch our own spot. I was unimpressed with Mike Woodson's job here and midway through the '06/'07 season, I had pretty much written him off. We should have been more focused for that game 7. It would have been an epic upset. Instead, it all went downhill from there. ..and that's where I sot of disagree with you. Sort of. I would say that we STARTED building a winning culture, then we failed. Those failures undid the hope and promise that the new management and the new generation of Hawks brought with them. In the end, our final grade is bad management, bad drafts, "meh" free agent signings, suspect coaching, and playoff futility. Considering the final grade, it really doesn't matter that we started a culture change. For all intents and purposes, we did nothing.

[Guest]

The culture change has already happened with more to come....we have not heard one word from Michael Gearon Jr. That in itself is the culture change.

[Robdawg]

This is what I believe Ferry is attempting to do with this team. For this season, he plans on building up Smoove and possibly Teague (only reason I say this is because of the new assistant coach hire). Then in the following offseason he will attempt to get D-12 here. Giving us a superstar, maybe even another star, and a solid bench.

[Gray Mule]

Question: Can any one sell Superman on the idea that he should come and play

in Atlanta with the Hawks?

Right now, from all we read, he has no desire to come here. If he is traded here

and he didn't stop it before it happened, he would be unhappy and ready to leave

at the first opportunity.

I don't care how bad we want him here, if he doesn't want to come here, we're

wishing up the wrong tree.

Too many of us have the idea firmly implanted in our mind: If only we could get CP3

and Superman here, all our other problems would simply vanish. Hawks would win

the NBA championship for years and years and always play to a full house of Hawk fans.

There is no other dream. This is it. No one else will do for us. If we can't have these

two, get out of the NBA and join the D-League. Heaven of Hell. Nothing else will do.

The culture will change when the average fan finds out that the Hawks play an exciting

brand of basketball. That they are capable of winning on any given night and no one

intimidates them. When the average fan will admit, "I'm a Hawk fan and proud of it and

I'm proud of the team that they have!"

Things will change when fans of other teams who live in Atlanta come here and watch

their team but return later in the season because they want to watch the Hawks.

When the Hawks themselves get out of the Interstate 285 beltway and promote the team.

Years ago Ted Turner put the Braves on America's map with his coverage on his Superstation

and everyone across the country could watch every night. Check the Braves out today when

they are on the road and see how many Braves fans you see. This is where they all come from.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The culture change is what took place with the Cincinnati Bengals, when they hired Marvin Lewis.That franchise was about 10 years behind the times with the way they did things, from scouting, to the facilities the players worked out in. One of the stipulations in Lewis taking the job, was for him to bring the Bengals into the 21st century of doing things. He came from a championship organization ( Baltimore Ravens ), and wanted to do things more like how the Ravens did it.From 1991 - 2002 . . . ( 12 seasons )- the Bengals were 55 - 137. That's an average yearly record of around 4 - 12 ... 5 - 11. - No winning seasons during that stretch, with 11 of those seasons being sub-500 ( best season was 8 - 8 ).- No payoff appearances. - No free agents wanted to go there.- Constantly missed on draft picks, with some becoming horrific busts ( QBs David Klingler and Akili Smith being the worst of the bunch ). - The players that they did draft that became Pro Bowl caliber players, didn't want to stay there.- And the fan base was basically reduced to rooting for small victories vs rival teams, than rooting for a team that could possibly make the playoffs.Once Lewis arrived, all of that begin to get better. In 9 seasons . . .- 69 - 74 record ( with two 4 win seasons . . one because of a rash of injuries, the other because of locker room drama )- Three winning seasons ( with only 3 sub-.500 seasons and three 8 - 8 seasons )- 3 playoff appearances in the last 7 years ( and 2 division titles )- Now has the ability to attract high quality free agents to come there- Now able to properly scout collegiate talent and bring in high quality players- Expectation of fan base has now risen to expect to compete yearly with Pittsburgh and Baltimore for division title- NOT a championship caliber team . . . yetThe fact is that culture change doesn't happen overnight . . . unless you DO get that superstar type player. If you don't, the change occurs slowly, with the foundation of the "house" being built slowly. But when it is built slowly, it also has to be built with the right materials. If you don't build it right, the house may not look like you want it to looks.As much as people complain about the "mediocre team" the Hawks had for the past 5 years, most of you will look back on this time as a good period for the Hawks. It was a period in time that provided some of the most exciting Hawks basketball you've seen since the late 80s Dominique era. No, the team could never get past the East's elite, but they were a "good" team . . . not a "mediocre one".

Edited August 8, 2012 by northcyde

[NineOhTheRino]

at some point the fans have to he called out too. We want the team to bend over backwards for us but are we holding up our end?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The trick for the Bengals is to now get to that next level. That elite level of play. With 2 playoff appearances in the last 3 years, but with no playoff victories, the goal is to get to that next level of play. The Falcons are at that same point.And it's ironic how some of you talk about the Falcons . . like they are light years ahead of the Hawks. In reality, they're in a worse place than the Hawks, because they've actually had a team that people thought were "championship material", only to crash and burn against a team that barely made the playoffs ( but went on to win the Super Bowl ).A 43 - 21 record the last 4 years for the Falcons. 3 playoff appearances. 1 division title. But 0 - 3 in the playoffs, being outscored 47 to 102 in those games ( 23 to 72 in the last 2 playoff games ). But because people LOVE the NFL and give the Falcons a pass, those FACTS are somewhat glossed over, and the Hawks were made out to be worse ( when they actually weren't ).Matt Ryan is essentially Joe JohnsonMichael Turner is essentially Al Horfordand John Abraham is essentially Josh SmithGood but not great players who have been unable to get the Falcons to the next level.Right now, who knows what Ferry brings to the table. What we HOPE, is that he brings the type of winning culture that we see in San Antonio. But even THAT culture didn't begin, until Tim Duncan arrived. They also needed that superstar ( combined with the one they already had ) to get to "championship level".If Ferry doesn't build this "house" right, the Hawks may be worse off in the long run. We'll get a good idea after next summer if we're headed in the right direction.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

at some point the fans have to he called out too. We want the team to bend over backwards for us but are we holding up our end?

he = be?

I've been saying that ( and gotten ripped for that ) . . for years.

The fans want to wait on us acquiring that superstar player, for them to unconditionally support the team. That's all well and good. The fact is that sometimes, that just doesn't happen. So what then? Do you continue to sit home and complain about a good but not great team? Do you continue to complain about what the franchise is or isn't doing, while you spend nothing to support the product?

Fans gotta understand that this is a 2-way street. As Gray Mule pointed out, the Hawks are absolutely TERRIBLE with the way they market the team and it's players. Johnson, Smith, nor Horford have ever been promoted the way they should've. From a marketing standpoint, they've been more concerned about getting fans to come to see OTHER stars around the league, than to promote their OWN STARS as players that people should come to watch. Even our presence on Youtube is miniscule, compared to what other teams are showcasing and doing for their players.

I've never seen anything like this done for ANY Hawks player

But the fans do have to start supporting the HAWKS more . . not just show up to Hawks games because they're playing another team's superstar. Maybe Ferry's "small ball" team can bring more fans out. But they'll only come out if the team is winning. And even at that point, the Hawks must market the team in the right way, and the fans must support that team.

[Diesel]

I agree and disagree... I think you're on the money that BK started a culture change. We were the youngest team in the league and we were the talk of the league in that sense. We signed Joe to the 1st Max contract and we had people talking. Joe went off, and we had some buzz. People talked about us like they were waiting for us to just get it right. The first mistake we made (outside of the draft) was not getting the right coach in here. We stumbled into the first year of the playoffs when we should have been able to clinch our own spot. I was unimpressed with Mike Woodson's job here and midway through the '06/'07 season, I had pretty much written him off. We should have been more focused for that game 7. It would have been an epic upset. Instead, it all went downhill from there. ..and that's where I sot of disagree with you. Sort of. I would say that we STARTED building a winning culture, then we failed. Those failures undid the hope and promise that the new management and the new generation of Hawks brought with them. In the end, our final grade is bad management, bad drafts, "meh" free agent signings, suspect coaching, and playoff futility. Considering the final grade, it really doesn't matter that we started a culture change. For all intents and purposes, we did nothing.

Don't get me wrong, I agree also that we started and that we failed. Obviously, getting a vet coach in here would have been winning culture kinda stuff. Instead of giving Woody another chance after losing to Cleveland.. if we would have elected to go balls to the wall for Doc Rivers.. I think things would have been different.

[Wretch]

he = be?

I've been saying that ( and gotten ripped for that ) . . for years.

The fans want to wait on us acquiring that superstar player, for them to unconditionally support the team. That's all well and good. The fact is that sometimes, that just doesn't happen. So what then? Do you continue to sit home and complain about a good but not great team? Do you continue to complain about what the franchise is or isn't doing, while you spend nothing to support the product?

Fans gotta understand that this is a 2-way street. As Gray Mule pointed out, the Hawks are absolutely TERRIBLE with the way they market the team and it's players. Johnson, Smith, nor Horford have ever been promoted the way they should've. From a marketing standpoint, they've been more concerned about getting fans to come to see OTHER stars around the league, than to promote their OWN STARS as players that people should come to watch. Even our presence on Youtube is miniscule, compared to what other teams are showcasing and doing for their players.

I've never seen anything like this done for ANY Hawks player

But the fans do have to start supporting the HAWKS more . . not just show up to Hawks games because they're playing another team's superstar. Maybe Ferry's "small ball" team can bring more fans out. But they'll only come out if the team is winning. And even at that point, the Hawks must market the team in the right way, and the fans must support that team.

Disagree 200%.

We will support it because we live and die Hawks basketball. But you can't expect the casual fan to show up to support a mediocre team. Why are they going to show up?

Do we have any chance to beat the best? Nope.

Any history of greatness that creates lifelong fans (like Celtics, Pistons, or Bulls)? Nope.

Dynamic young players that people consider the future of the NBA? Nope.

Prolific All NBA/All Pro players, stars seen all over the media? Nope.

Just the same old middle of the pack team. You're not going to draw the fans to the arena with a team like that. Now I will admit that they haven't marketed the players the way you see elsewhere. However, let's take your King's example....

When is the last time we had a Rookie of the Year? MVP? All Star Game MVP? All Star Game Starter? All NBA 1st? 2nd? Scoring champ? What NBA related thing has this city had to get excited about in the past 40 years? And...you just want the fans to show up and throw their undying support for it?

?

[Wretch]

Don't get me wrong, I agree also that we started and that we failed. Obviously, getting a vet coach in here would have been winning culture kinda stuff. Instead of giving Woody another chance after losing to Cleveland.. if we would have elected to go balls to the wall for Doc Rivers.. I think things would have been different.

No doubt man. But see, that's what I'm saying though. When you have a true culture change, things play out differently because management approaches the game differently. Woody was the longest tenured coach at one point...for absolutely no reason. Looking at the coaching turnover from the caliber of teams during that time. It just boggles the mind.

[DrReality]

Was thinking yesterday about the hires of Lon Kruger, terry stotts. Ownership and gm's have made so many bonehead moves that it's going to take a while for fans to trust enough to support the new cultureThe brightest spot we've had is the playoff series with Boston that really ignited the fans. Which shows that they want a team to support

[Wretch]

Was thinking yesterday about the hires of Lon Kruger, terry stotts. Ownership and gm's have made so many bonehead moves that it's going to take a while for fans to trust enough to support the new culture The brightest spot we've had is the playoff series with Boston that really ignited the fans. Which shows that they want a team to support

That's a huge point too...TRUST. Nobody believes in this franchise. The players, media, and fans (in general) see us as a joke and traditionally, we have done very little to change that perception. We make ridiculous coaching hires, cripple ourselves with bad contracts (and this happened many times before Joe), we ignore the draft, and we make moves like Smitty for Rider/Jim Jackson or Nique for Manning. You're absolutely right though. Put a winner on the court and the fans will show up. It'll take a serious team though.