Creating a different culture

[Sothron]

This is no simple task for Ferry. The two previous gm's did not seem to make conscious efforts to create a different culture. And there was little hope while they were in the midst of the court battle. Ferry seems to have taken a few positive steps. What other steps can be taken? Cuz cultures aren't hatched overnight but the falcons seem to have accomplished it ...many thanks to Blank

I just have to point out that the owners were running this team specifically with Gearon Jr. being the real GM of the team. That is the reason BK eventually quit and Sund was hired with the understanding he'd have very limited power. Sund couldn't even hire the coach he wanted because Larry Drew agreed to become literally the cheapest coach in the NBA and Gearon went with him. The difference with Ferry is simple: the Boston debacle with Gearon Jr. woke the rest of the owners up. They agreed to all of Ferry's demands in order for him to come here. That means Ferry is running the entire Hawks organization. He has more power than any GM in Hawks franchise history. He quite simply has the clout and power that BK and Sund never had. So while I'm on board with generally being happy with Ferry's run so far I think it is unfair and inaccurate to blame our past two GMs for not doing more when in point of fact they simply could not.

[macdaddy]

I just have to point out that the owners were running this team specifically with Gearon Jr. being the real GM of the team. That is the reason BK eventually quit and Sund was hired with the understanding he'd have very limited power. Sund couldn't even hire the coach he wanted because Larry Drew agreed to become literally the cheapest coach in the NBA and Gearon went with him. The difference with Ferry is simple: the Boston debacle with Gearon Jr. woke the rest of the owners up. They agreed to all of Ferry's demands in order for him to come here. That means Ferry is running the entire Hawks organization. He has more power than any GM in Hawks franchise history. He quite simply has the clout and power that BK and Sund never had. So while I'm on board with generally being happy with Ferry's run so far I think it is unfair and inaccurate to blame our past two GMs for not doing more when in point of fact they simply could not.

I agree with that 100% Rick.

[Sothron]

I agree with that 100% Rick.

Thanks but who is Rick?

[macdaddy]

Thanks but who is Rick?

Sund. It was an attempt at a joke. Sorry. I do agree whole heartedly though.

[Diesel]

Was thinking yesterday about the hires of Lon Kruger, terry stotts. Ownership and gm's have made so many bonehead moves that it's going to take a while for fans to trust enough to support the new culture The brightest spot we've had is the playoff series with Boston that really ignited the fans. Which shows that they want a team to support

Just you saying that made me think that the last time we hired a "made man" to be coach was Lenny Wilkens. Many moons ago. We have these unknown coaches and wonder why we don't do much. I know that we won't get a guy like Sloan and prolly not Phil Jackson... but there's got to be some made men who wants to coach in the greatest city in the world.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Disagree 200%.

We will support it because we live and die Hawks basketball. But you can't expect the casual fan to show up to support a mediocre team. Why are they going to show up?

Do we have any chance to beat the best? Nope.

Any history of greatness that creates lifelong fans (like Celtics, Pistons, or Bulls)? Nope.

Dynamic young players that people consider the future of the NBA? Nope.

Prolific All NBA/All Pro players, stars seen all over the media? Nope.

Just the same old middle of the pack team. You're not going to draw the fans to the arena with a team like that. Now I will admit that they haven't marketed the players the way you see elsewhere. However, let's take your King's example....

When is the last time we had a Rookie of the Year? MVP? All Star Game MVP? All Star Game Starter? All NBA 1st? 2nd? Scoring champ? What NBA related thing has this city had to get excited about in the past 40 years? And...you just want the fans to show up and throw their undying support for it?

?

In other words, the Hawks need a superstar to bring the fans out . . . period. Because if we really have to win or contend for an NBA championship for the fans to finally get behind the team, the next 6 years may be a failure as well.

Having a very good, All-Star caliber, but boring and non-athletic Joe Johnson wasn't good enough to bring them out

Having a slam dunk champion, who is also a dynamic in-game dunker and shot blocker in Josh Smith wasn't enough

Having a guy who many consider to be a top 5 Center in the league in Al Horford wasn't enough

Winning 34 home games in a season in 2009 - 10 ( 2nd most in franchise history ), wasn't enough

So while the Hawks were trying to develop a "culture" around those 3, the real thing they should've been doing was trying to shop ALL OF THEM for a superstar.

Because if the Hawks actually have to play in an NBA Finals for the fans to come out, I don't know if they'll ever come without that superstar.

It's a shame what excuses we'll make for the fans ( die hard or casual ) not coming out, when non-playoff, non-superstar teams like the Raptors and Warriors routinely outdraw us on a yearly basis. Even a horrible Wizards and Cavaliers team outdrew us last year. But I guess they have more "hope" and star power than we do I guess. If that's the case, trade Josh Smith or Al Horford for Kyrie Irving or John Wall.

Edited August 9, 2012 by northcyde

[Wretch]

In other words, the Hawks need a superstar to bring the fans out . . . period. Because if we really have to win or contend for an NBA championship for the fans to finally get behind the team, the next 6 years may be a failure as well.

Having a very good, All-Star caliber, but boring and non-athletic Joe Johnson wasn't good enough to bring them out

Having a slam dunk champion, who is also a dynamic in-game dunker and shot blocker in Josh Smith wasn't enough

Having a guy who many consider to be a top 5 Center in the league in Al Horford wasn't enough

Winning 34 home games in a season in 2009 - 10 ( 2nd most in franchise history ), wasn't enough

So while the Hawks were trying to develop a "culture" around those 3, the real thing they should've been doing was trying to shop ALL OF THEM for a superstar.

Because if the Hawks actually have to play in an NBA Finals for the fans to come out, I don't know if they'll ever come without that superstar.

It's a shame what excuses we'll make for the fans ( die hard or casual ) not coming out, when non-playoff, non-superstar teams like the Raptors and Warriors routinely outdraw us on a yearly basis. Even a horrible Wizards and Cavaliers team outdrew us last year. But I guess they have more "hope" and star power than we do I guess. If that's the case, trade Josh Smith or Al Horford for Kyrie Irving or John Wall.

I really don't know what to say other than...you're absolutely right. On all counts. You think there should be some undying support for a mediocre team that hasn't done anything in 40 years? This isn't Boston. They could end up being the worst team in the league in the next 4-5 years. Attendance will drop. Media will lose interest. The second they put just a decent winner on the court though, the support will come back. Same with Los Angeles, Chicago, hell probably even Miami or Orlando. That's just not going to happen in Atlanta.

It is about the superstar. Yes, yes, and absolutely yes. This game, in it's entirety, is built around the superstar talent. Let's just stop BS'ing and just put it out there. From the marketing to the media. It's about the marquee names, the marquee matchups, and the marquee talent.

It is not about the "ok" teams fumbling around in the middle of the pack. Those are the faceless jobbers in pro wrestling who's sole purpose is to do nothing but take a fall. The fans don't come out to see those guys. They come to see guys like this:

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[Sothron]

In other words, the Hawks need a superstar to bring the fans out . . . period. Because if we really have to win or contend for an NBA championship for the fans to finally get behind the team, the next 6 years may be a failure as well. Having a very good, All-Star caliber, but boring and non-athletic Joe Johnson wasn't good enough to bring them out Having a slam dunk champion, who is also a dynamic in-game dunker and shot blocker in Josh Smith wasn't enough Having a guy who many consider to be a top 5 Center in the league in Al Horford wasn't enough Winning 34 home games in a season in 2009 - 10 ( 2nd most in franchise history ), wasn't enough So while the Hawks were trying to develop a "culture" around those 3, the real thing they should've been doing was trying to shop ALL OF THEM for a superstar. Because if the Hawks actually have to play in an NBA Finals for the fans to come out, I don't know if they'll ever come without that superstar. It's a shame what excuses we'll make for the fans ( die hard or casual ) not coming out, when non-playoff, non-superstar teams like the Raptors and Warriors routinely outdraw us on a yearly basis. Even a horrible Wizards and Cavaliers team outdrew us last year. But I guess they have more "hope" and star power than we do I guess. If that's the case, trade Josh Smith or Al Horford for Kyrie Irving or John Wall.

If Wretch isn't one of the most ardent "we need a superstar" supporters on this site (myself included on that list) then I will eat a hat of anyone's choice. We need a superstar bad.

[niremetal]

I don't see how a culture change is possible as long as Josh is here. He's the poster child for the team's lack of accountability over the past several years.

Edited August 9, 2012 by niremetal

[hawkman]

I don't see how a culture change is possible as long as Josh is here. He's the poster child for the team's lack of accountability over the past several years.

Just stop.

[PureGreatness]

I don't see how a culture change is possible as long as Josh is here. He's the poster child for the team's lack of accountability over the past several years.

Delete your account along with the guy who liked your post.

[AHF]

Here are some positive signs of culture change I see:

[*]Unprecedented authority given to the GM after years of some of the most limited authority given to our GM.

[*]Investing in assistant coaches to upgrade our player development.

[*]Making an effort to acquire draft picks rather than selling them off.

[*]Making the "smart" little moves to give you flexibility like flipping off a guy you aren't going to resign for a traded player exception.

[*]Getting rid of players who are overpaid commensurate with their results out of an unwillingness to accept a team model that prevents the team from achieving beyond first round competitiveness.

Some of these are big, some are smaller. All are moves in the right direction towards an organization that looks for an edge wherever they can get it rather than an organization that spends big and not intelligently in some areas and is penny-wise, pound foolish in many other areas.

[niremetal]

Delete your account along with the guy who liked your post.

A whole lot of people would have to delete their accounts if you tried to weed out all the Squawkers who doubt that a meaningful change of culture can be implemented as long as Josh remains with the Hawks.

[DrReality]

Agree that former gm's were puppets. Hopefully that's in the rear view mirrorI think changing assist coaches is also a big step. If ferry didn't have Drews attention, he does nowRe smoove: ferry is creatin a crude like the spurs and smoove has a choice to get on board or pack your bags. Jury is still out. No one has been given the authority to stand up to him but that's changed too

[DrReality]

Thinking about culture seems some of it is like the Eco system. Some parts you can influence directly but others you can't. Can be a delicate process. But Ferrys moves made with confidence pave the way for coaches and players to do the same. And confidence was not one of sunds long suits

[tonegully]

One thing about changing a culture is that you have to change the way that things are done from the bottom up. The bottom isn't the ball boy. The bottom is actually the fan. If you give the fan an experience... the Culture will change. Football is different. The game is the most entertaining thing. Nobody goes to football games for the cheerleaders or the halftime show. They go for the game because football prompts that winner gene. Basketball not so much. We like that winner gene prompted but more than that if we can have an experience with other fans during the game... it becomes better.

no. You start at the top and work your way down. Thats the order you work in order to change the culture. You change the mindset of the management. Management on down has to be on the same page. Coach Drew's opinion should be the same as Ferry's and ASG. Once players see that, they can respect it. The fan doesnt change the culture in pro sports. The fan supports the team and spreads the word about the team. You get strong leadership you can develop strong players. You can then instill or see leadership qualities in players. If the top is messed up then the bottom is going to be messed up, unmotivated, uninvolved which will lead to poor performance. Which then leads to losing. Then the fan will not support the team and talk bad about the team.

[tonegully]

I don't see how a culture change is possible as long as Josh is here. He's the poster child for the team's lack of accountability over the past several years.

Exactly. Josh does that because of the leadership from up top. They manufactured this beast. Josh can be apart of the change.You have to show him the change and he needs to be held accountable for his actions. Which once again comes from the top.

[tonegully]

If Wretch isn't one of the most ardent "we need a superstar" supporters on this site (myself included on that list) then I will eat a hat of anyone's choice. We need a superstar bad.

I hate to say it but im going to say it anyways. We need a black superstar. we a black superstar that can relate to the younger people. The younger people are the casual fans. Most of the superstars who live in ATL are black. If the ASG was smart they would be recruiting these young black stars, be it actors , singers,or rappers to buy into the team. I mean Ryan can win a superbowl and still wouldnt be able to fill that dome like Vick did. I mean thats just the way it is in ATL as far as the superstar thing goes.