The hopes of a franchise are heavy.

[ATLscrubLove]

I know it sounds cliche but this statement from Smoove in his commercial really stands out to me. This city longs for a championship caliber team. Especially this Hawks team. I can tell he really wants to win and is focused on becoming a "superstar" here now that he is out of Joe's shadows.I'm not sure that this team is good enough to get to that championship level as it is right now ( obviously ). But in 2013, I think it will be the start of a new era in the A. Building a team that not only wins, but also becomes feared by others. Going deep in the Playoffs for multiple Years. Imagine this... The Atlanta Hawks becoming a household name like the Heat or Lakers. Possibly becoming the team of the mid teens ( 2013-2018 ).I know a lot of people don't think it can happen but trust me, it can an it will. Obviously this is all speculation by a hopeful Hawks fan ( myself ), but lets me honest. It's not always about where the team is, small/large market. If you have the money they will come. It just so happens the Hawks will have the money...Now lets sit back and see what this season has in store for our Hawks. No matter what happens, remember there are great things looming.

Edited October 15, 2012 by ATLscrubLove

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I know it sounds cliche but this statement from Smoove in his commercial really stands out to me. This city longs for a championship caliber team. Especially this Hawks team. I can tell he really wants to win and is focused on becoming a "superstar" here now that he is out of Joe's shadows. I'm not sure that this team is good enough to get to that championship level as it is right now ( obviously ). But in 2013, I think it will be the start of a new era in the A. Building a team that not only wins, but also becomes feared by others. Going deep in the Playoffs for multiple Years. Imagine this... The Atlanta Hawks becoming a household name like the Heat or Lakers. Possibly becoming the team of the mid teens ( 2013-2018 ). I know a lot of people don't think it can happen but trust me, it can an it will. Obviously this is all speculation by a hopeful Hawks fan ( myself ), but lets me honest. It's not always about where the team is, small/large market. If you have the money they will come. It just so happens the Hawks will have the money... Now lets sit back and see what this season has in store for our Hawks. No matter what happens, remember there are great things looming.

Well if money is an issue, why aren't the Bobcats making the playoffs? They have money AND top notch draft picks, and still can't get a superstar caliber player to go there. Cap space is hella overrated. Players simply have to want to go to your team. And if a team wants that player bad enough, they can MAKE room to bring him on. Honestly, a lot of you have been straight up duped into believing that one of the main problems here in ATL, were overpaid players who couldn't quite live up to expectations. That wasn't the reason. The reason was that we didn't have a superstar player, nor was our top 8 guys good enough to compete on an elite level. Having a bargain basement coach doesn't help either. Building a championship caliber team is about a lot of things. And to be real about it, it's not really about the amount of cap space you have, but more about the risks you're willing to take and what lengths you're willing to go to build a winner. Not once during the last 7 years did the Hawks just say . . (( bleep it )) . . we're going all out to try to bring a title to ATL. And they never took a risk on bringing in a player that may or may not have fit with "the core". ( unless you count Jamal Crawford ) Building a championship caliber team is also about LUCK. The great organization that Danny Ferry comes from, San Antonio, had never won an NBA title before they drafted Tim Duncan. And the ONLY reason they were even in position to draft Duncan, was because David Robinson had a back injury and only played in 6 games during the 1996 - 97 season. Sean Elliot ends up getting hurt too. So who ends up leading that team? A 37 year old Dominique Wilkins. But that team was ultra sorry without David and Sean, ( Nique missed 19 games as well ) and they only win 20 games. They get the 3rd most ping pong balls . . win the lottery . . draft the consensus #1 pick that year in Tim Duncan . . and the rest is history. They went from a franchise who had never played in an ABA or NBA Finals, to winning 4 NBA Championships in the first 10 years they had Duncan. That wasn't the result of cap space or having money. That was simply being lucky as hell, and getting the #1 draft choice in a draft that had arguably one of the top 15 players of all time in it. And STILL having a Hall of Fame caliber big man to play with him for his first 5 years, which helped mature him and keep him humble. Edited October 15, 2012 by northcyde

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Taking a risk means that the Hawks go to Orlando or New Orleans before the start of last season, and basically tell them . . . "whatever you want, we'll give it to you. Just give us Dwight Howard or Chris Paul." And once you get that superstar player, make the necessary moves to QUICKLY bring that team up to contender status. Because after that Chicago series, it was painfully obvious that neither JJ, nor anybody else on this team was good enough to get us to the next level. So you simply take a risk to get to that next level, even if it meant parting with good young talent for a 1-year rental for a superstar.

[MaceCase]

Why is it that the Negative Nancys always talk out ouf both sides of their mouths?

"CAPSPACE IS OVERRATED! NO ONE WANTS TO COME TO ATLANTA!"

Your solution?

"MAKE A BIG SPLASH AND TRADE EVERYTHING FOR SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T WANT TO COME TO ATLANTA!"

Because once the cupboard is clear of assets said player is going to turn their opinion around, re-sign and wait for a now assetless team to build something that's at least better than their previous team? Of course said player most likely leaves and the detestable capspace is all that's left with a far more bleak future but oh well, at least the team showed balls, right?

Let's avoid the reality too in that the Hornets under Stern were not at all interested in receiving talent (read: contracts) for Paul for "basketball reasons" and that the Magic out of spite were not interested in even talking to the Hawks. No, both teams would of been hyponotized by the sheer testosterone of a ballsy GM.

Edited October 15, 2012 by MaceCase

[macdaddy]

Taking a risk means that the Hawks go to Orlando or New Orleans before the start of last season, and basically tell them . . . "whatever you want, we'll give it to you. Just give us Dwight Howard or Chris Paul." And once you get that superstar player, make the necessary moves to QUICKLY bring that team up to contender status. Because after that Chicago series, it was painfully obvious that neither JJ, nor anybody else on this team was good enough to get us to the next level. So you simply take a risk to get to that next level, even if it meant parting with good young talent for a 1-year rental for a superstar.

No offense but i prefer the track we're on. So Dwight couldn't win a title all those years in Orlando you think in one season, after the Magic take Smoove and Horford and Teague and our draft picks off our hands that we'd be able to turn that into a championship season? Dwight, Joe, Willie Green, Pargo, Josh Powell? So we've sold off our future, Dwight walks, maybe we get a sign and trade out of it and we're back to winning 20 games a year for 7 years? No thanks. Neither Dwight or CP have carried a team to a championship yet. If we go all in for those guys it would have to be for a guaranteed long term. Long enough to acquire more talent. At this point in their careers i think there are better choices.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I'm with ya Scrub, I believe the Hawks will be a contender in a few seasons. Not saying they are guaranteed to get a championship, but we won't be middle of the pack, out in the second round any longer. DF will make a push for DH12 to be our center and will resign Smith and maybe Korver too. Go Hawks!

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

The Falcons went through this same transitioning faze and now look at them... 6-0. They got themselves an owner that loves the team and has deep pockets, a ballsy GM, a very capable coaching staff, and talent all over the field. The Hawks are heading in the same direction!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Why is it that the Negative Nancys always talk out ouf both sides of their mouths?

"CAPSPACE IS OVERRATED! NO ONE WANTS TO COME TO ATLANTA!"

Your solution?

"MAKE A BIG SPLASH AND TRADE EVERYTHING FOR SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T WANT TO COME TO ATLANTA!"

Because once the cupboard is clear of assets said player is going to turn their opinion around, re-sign and wait for a now assetless team to build something that's at least better than their previous team? Of course said player most likely leaves and the detestable capspace is all that's left with a far more bleak future but oh well, at least the team showed balls, right?

Let's avoid the reality too in that the Hornets under Stern were not at all interested in receiving talent (read: contracts) for Paul for "basketball reasons" and that the Magic out of spite were not interested in even talking to the Hawks. No, both teams would of been hyponotized by the sheer testosterone of a ballsy GM.

So what is YOUR SOLUTION? Because MY SOLUTION is to MAKE a player come to ATL, whether his butt wants to come here or not. And if we have to sell off talent for a 1 or 2 year rental for a superstar, so be it. That would be better than the path we're on now.

You know good and well that we're not winning jack (( bleep )) with Al or Josh as our best player, just like we weren't winning anything with JJ as our best player. So at some point, an organization simply has to take a risk. Trade your assets and try to bring in a player who could have a bigger impact on your team, than the talent that you give up.

A healthy Dwight Howard OR Chris Paul > Josh Smith + Al Horford

The fact is that the Hawks should've made a move for one of those players BEFORE the 2011 season, not during it. You give the Magic an offer that they can't refuse.

Smith + Horford + 2013 1st round pick . . for Howard and one of their bad contracts ( Turk or J-Rich ). If they wanted more, you give them more.

If you're talking Chris Paul, you give the Hornets an offer they can't refuse.

Smith or Horford + Teague + 1st round picks

Yeah, if emptying the cupboard gives you a chance to finally get a superstar player, then you empty the damn cupboard. LOL @ saying that Stern wasn't interested in receiving talent, when they got Eric Gordon, Chris Kaman, an expiring contract, and a 1st round pick. He got a decent center, an potential All-Star combo guard, and because they were still sorry, ended up getting the #1 pick in the draft in Anthony Davis.

Meanwhile, the Clips got a PG that totally changed the path that team was on, and made them a legit playoff caliber squad . . who might be even better this year.

You stay on this "small ball" path to stardom . . . while I would've tried to make the biggest splash possible. And if it failed, hey . . I got ping pong balls to possibly draft an impact player.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The Falcons went through this same transitioning faze and now look at them... 6-0. They got themselves an owner that loves the team and has deep pockets, a ballsy GM, a very capable coaching staff, and talent all over the field. The Hawks are heading in the same direction!

You know good and well you can't compare football to basketball. And even the Falcons had to go through something dramatic: - the jailing and release of the franchise QB most people in that city flat out loved ( Vick ) - the Bobby Petrino coaching fiasco - being sorry enough the next year to be in position to draft their future franchise QB in Matt Ryan with the #3 pick in that draft - bring in a guy who had NEVER been a head coach before in Mike Smith, and have that work - and acquire a stud RB in Michael Turner, who honestly should still be with the Chargers right now And they STILL haven't won a playoff game in 5 years. Hopefully things will change this year. But don't act like the Falcons had this grand plan to stardom. They basically had to have everything crumble from the Vick era, to be in position to do all of the things that they've done now. They have made good moves since that turmoil though, can't take that away from them. Edited October 15, 2012 by northcyde

[ATLscrubLove]

Well if money is an issue, why aren't the Bobcats making the playoffs? They have money AND top notch draft picks, and still can't get a superstar caliber player to go there. Cap space is hella overrated. Players simply have to want to go to your team. And if a team wants that player bad enough, they can MAKE room to bring him on. Honestly, a lot of you have been straight up duped into believing that one of the main problems here in ATL, were overpaid players who couldn't quite live up to expectations. That wasn't the reason. The reason was that we didn't have a superstar player, nor was our top 8 guys good enough to compete on an elite level. Having a bargain basement coach doesn't help either. Building a championship caliber team is about a lot of things. And to be real about it, it's not really about the amount of cap space you have, but more about the risks you're willing to take and what lengths you're willing to go to build a winner. Not once during the last 7 years did the Hawks just say . . (( bleep it )) . . we're going all out to try to bring a title to ATL. And they never took a risk on bringing in a player that may or may not have fit with "the core". ( unless you count Jamal Crawford ) Building a championship caliber team is also about LUCK. The great organization that Danny Ferry comes from, San Antonio, had never won an NBA title before they drafted Tim Duncan. And the ONLY reason they were even in position to draft Duncan, was because David Robinson had a back injury and only played in 6 games during the 1996 - 97 season. Sean Elliot ends up getting hurt too. So who ends up leading that team? A 37 year old Dominique Wilkins. But that team was ultra sorry without David and Sean, ( Nique missed 19 games as well ) and they only win 20 games. They get the 3rd most ping pong balls . . win the lottery . . draft the consensus #1 pick that year in Tim Duncan . . and the rest is history. They went from a franchise who had never played in an ABA or NBA Finals, to winning 4 NBA Championships in the first 10 years they had Duncan. That wasn't the result of cap space or having money. That was simply being lucky as hell, and getting the #1 draft choice in a draft that had arguably one of the top 15 players of all time in it. And STILL having a Hall of Fame caliber big man to play with him for his first 5 years, which helped mature him and keep him humble.

No one wants to play for the Bobcats because they have poor ownership and little initiative to make the playoffs.

[MaceCase]

So what is YOUR SOLUTION? Because MY SOLUTION is to MAKE a player come to ATL, whether his butt wants to come here or not. And if we have to sell off talent for a 1 or 2 year rental for a superstar, so be it. That would be better than the path we're on now.

Yes, I forgot that your revisionist history time machine can also travel forward in time.

You know good and well that we're not winning jack (( bleep )) with Al or Josh as our best player, just like we weren't winning anything with JJ as our best player. So at some point, an organization simply has to take a risk. Trade your assets and try to bring in a player who could have a bigger impact on your team, than the talent that you give up.

Funny because..........that's exactly what Ferry did but that's not the risk you're looking for. Guess you're all bluster.

The fact is that the Hawks should've made a move for one of those players BEFORE the 2011 season, not during it. You give the Magic an offer that they can't refuse.

Yes, the Magic sure did end up with a deal they couldnt't refuse. Yup yup.

Yeah, if emptying the cupboard gives you a chance to finally get a superstar player, then you empty the damn cupboard.

Do you remember way back when, when Kobe was demanding a trade to Chicago? But the Lakers wanted Deng and Kobe said hell no he won't go if Deng is included in the package for him? Well the funny thing about stars that want to leave losing situations is that they don't want to go to other losing situations. Paul didn't want to go to the Clippers either if Gordon was included in a deal for him, he didn't approve until the Clippers picked Chauncey up.

LOL @ saying that Stern wasn't interested in receiving talent, when they got Eric Gordon, Chris Kaman, an expiring contract, and a 1st round pick. He got a decent center, an potential All-Star combo guard, and because they were still sorry, ended up getting the #1 pick in the draft in Anthony Davis.

While you are in your revisionist time machine you might as well stick your head out the window and experience reality. David Stern stepped over the New Orleans GM and vetoed a Paul trade that was already agreed to between the Lakers, Hornets and Rockets that sent NOLA.

Kevin Martin

Lamar Odom

Luis Scola

Goran Dragic

plus 1st and 2nd rounders

Yes, clearly Al Farouq Aminu, Eric Gordon, Kaman's contract filler (they didn't even want to play him) and a future pick was a greater talented package.

You stay on this "small ball" path to stardom . . . while I would've tried to make the biggest splash possible. And if it failed, hey . . I got ping pong balls to possibly draft an impact player.

No you wouldn't, forgot that you left the cupboard bare in your "give em whatever they want!" plan, did you?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

No offense but i prefer the track we're on. So Dwight couldn't win a title all those years in Orlando you think in one season, after the Magic take Smoove and Horford and Teague and our draft picks off our hands that we'd be able to turn that into a championship season? Dwight, Joe, Willie Green, Pargo, Josh Powell? So we've sold off our future, Dwight walks, maybe we get a sign and trade out of it and we're back to winning 20 games a year for 7 years? No thanks. Neither Dwight or CP have carried a team to a championship yet. If we go all in for those guys it would have to be for a guaranteed long term. Long enough to acquire more talent. At this point in their careers i think there are better choices.

If you make that trade before the 2011 season, and we gave away Smith + Horford + 2013 1st round pick for Howard and Jason Richardson ( because part of that Dwight trade would have to be to take a bad contract off of them ). Hell, I even throw in Jeff Teague since you mentioned him . . this is the 2011 Atlanta Hawks PG - Pargo G - Johnson F - Marvin PF - Ivan . . ( who could average 10 ppg - 7 rebs if he got starters minutes and played alongside Howard ) C - Howard 6th - Zaza 7th - Richardson 8th - McGrady 9th - Sloan ( because he probably makes this team without Teague here ) . . no Willie Green 10th - Radmanovic That team right there is no worse than the squad we threw out there last year. That team still makes the playoffs. And if Howard goes down with that back injury, we're now a lottery team that has a chance to pick a nice young talent. If we still got to keep Teague, this is your team PG - Teague G - Johnson F - Marvin PF - Ivan C - Howard 6th - Zaza 7th - Richardson 8th - Pargo 9th - McGrady 10th - Radmanovic And as history has now shown, we would've had the ability to trade off BOTH Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams if need be, to completely destroy the team and rebuild it from the ground, up. If Dwight leaves after one year, that's cool. You get a huge trade exception from him leaving, and use that to possibly sign a decent free agent. If not, you let his money fall off the books, and you're still better off financially than you were. ******************** The whole purpose of acquiring young talent, is to first see if they can develop into something special. If they can't, you trade them off to see if you can bring in better talent, even if it's one player. The good to great teams know this. It's crazy. We saw Philly part with their longtime borderline All-Star wing ( Iguodala ), their aging but best big man ( Brand ), and their top scorer from last year ( Williams ) . . . and they were able to replace them with Nick Young, Jason Richardson, and the big prize . . Andrew Bynum. At least the Hawks did get a decent player from the Marvin trade, although Jazz fans aren't crying at all about the Marvin for Devin swap, seeing that they really like Marvin over there. They got nothing from the JJ trade, outside of the expectation of "cap space". And we'll see what happens with Josh Smith after this season ( or maybe as soon as the All-Star break ). The reality of the NBA, is that teams who are scared to take risks, and don't make the right moves, are the teams that will constantly fail . . or never reach their potential.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

No one wants to play for the Bobcats because they have poor ownership and little initiative to make the playoffs.

No one wants to play for the Bobcats because they are sorry from top to bottom . . . period.

So if you're the Bobcats, you have to MAKE somebody come to you and play, not wait on someone to choose you to play for them. And the Hawks must do the same, because the perception of our franchise isn't much better than what the Bobcats are . . . and we've been in the dang playoffs for the past 5 years.

This was your sentence though

It's not always about where the team is, small/large market. If you have the money they will come. It just so happens the Hawks will have the money...

The money isn't the main factor. Where a team is, and the perception a player has of that franchise, has more to do with where he'll go, than how much a team can offer him. Especially when you talk about star and veteran players.

[ATLscrubLove]

No one wants to play for the Bobcats because they are sorry from top to bottom . . . period.

So if you're the Bobcats, you have to MAKE somebody come to you and play, not wait on someone to choose you to play for them. And the Hawks must do the same, because the perception of our franchise isn't much better than what the Bobcats are . . . and we've been in the dang playoffs for the past 5 years.

This was your sentence though

It's not always about where the team is, small/large market. If you have the money they will come. It just so happens the Hawks will have the money...

The money isn't the main factor. Where a team is, and the perception a player has of that franchise, has more to do with where he'll go, than how much a team can offer him. Especially when you talk about star and veteran players.

True but if you see where the Hawks will be next year in terms of money, they are in a good situation. Hawks are one of few teams who are able to sign more than one superstar/all-star. Sometimes players are more for exposure, which is why D12 will probably stay in LA. But if the Hawks somehow manage to lure CP3 we will start seeing pieces fall into our laps. Obviously luring stars here is one on the toughest obstacles we face, but sometimes superstars just wanna play together somewhere. So we do have that going for us next year, especially now that Ferry wants to start a generation of winning.

Either way this team is in a great situation next season. This franchise is on the up and up under Ferry and will have the $$$ to spend. That's always the recipe for success.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Yes, I forgot that your revisionist history time machine can also travel forward in time.

Once again, what is YOUR SOLUTION? You haven't given one ounce of a plan of what you would've done. Sounding like Mitt Romney and Obama.

Funny because..........that's exactly what Ferry did but that's not the risk you're looking for. Guess you're all bluster.

What Ferry did, was trade off a 6 time All-Star for 5 dead roaches and a future dead roach, and couldn't even get their best young player ( Marshon Brooks ) in the deal. Then he trades off Marvin for Devin Harris, a deal that we HOPE will turn out well for us, but the logjam at PG might backfire, and make Devin less effective than what he can be. And heck, we trade Marvin and hope his replacement(s) can be a better fit at SF than he was. Hopefully it will work out. But there's a reason why most fans see a GAPING hole at SF these days. And it's because of the 2 moves Ferry made.

Ferry didn't improve this team, he simply got rid of bad contracts in hopes of improving them for the future. The Sixers, on the other hand, improved their team IMMEDIATELY, even though they let go of 3 of their top 4 players.

Yes, the Magic sure did end up with a deal they couldnt't refuse. Yup yup.

The Magic screwed themselves, by holding out hope that they could persuade Howard to stay. Him accepting the player option gave them even more hope. But the Hawks should've stepped in BEFORE that, and offered them a deal that they would've been silly to refuse, if Howard really wanted to leave Orlando.

And hell, at that time, if we wanted to use Howard OURSELVES as a trade chip, we would've had the option to do that last season

The (( bleep's )) chess, it ain't checkers. But you're over there playing UNO with Mike Gearon Jr, when he should've been chess with the rest of the league.

But nope. He and the other owners were too worried about significantly going over the Luxury Tax line, when teams who are willing to do any and everything to win a title, laugh at that L-Tax . . at least for a season or two.

Do you remember way back when, when Kobe was demanding a trade to Chicago? But the Lakers wanted Deng and Kobe said hell no he won't go if Deng is included in the package for him? Well the funny thing about stars that want to leave losing situations is that they don't want to go to other losing situations.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=54uUrHK5Efk

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q46P234Pj3A

Paul didn't want to go to the Clippers either if Gordon was included in a deal for him, he didn't approve until the Clippers picked Chauncey up.

Once again, who cares what Chris Paul wanted? Did he have trade veto power? From everything I saw, Chris Paul decided to take his player option after Chauncey was signed, not refuse to go to the Clippers before Billups was signed. Chris Paul may have had his desires of what teams he wanted to play for, but he had no real power to dictate what team the Hornets traded him to.

It was up to the Hornets to get what they thought was the best possible deal for them. If another team offered them something, and were willing to take on Paul just for one year ( in hopes they could convince him to stay ), the Hornets could've traded him to that team.

While you are in your revisionist time machine you might as well stick your head out the window and experience reality. David Stern stepped over the New Orleans GM and vetoed a Paul trade that was already agreed to between the Lakers, Hornets and Rockets that sent NOLA.

Kevin Martin

Lamar Odom

Luis Scola

Goran Dragic

plus 1st and 2nd rounders

Yes, clearly Al Farouq Aminu, Eric Gordon, Kaman's contract filler (they didn't even want to play him) and a future pick was a greater talented package.

He vetoed the trade because the league's owners felt that once again, the Lakers were getting a Hall of Fame caliber player and making them better, without giving up little or anything in return.

LOL . . his veto had nothing to do with what the Hornets got. That veto was all about preventing the Lakers from getting Chris Paul for basically swapping him for Pau Gasol.

And that initial trade actually illustrates my point.

Houston's plan was to acquire BOTH of the Gasol brothers. The reason they were willing to part with all of that talent, was to entice Marc to sign with Houston to play with brother Pau. And they still made a big time run at Marc right before last season, with that MAX contract offer they gave him.

No you wouldn't, forgot that you left the cupboard bare in your "give em whatever they want!" plan, did you?

Who cares about the cupboard being bare, when I would have newer and possibly better items to put in the cupboard.

So you wouldn't trade Josh + Al for a healthy Dwight Howard . . . even without a future commitment from him? That's fine. But teams that think like that, will never go anywhere.

[macdaddy]

If you make that trade before the 2011 season, and we gave away Smith + Horford + 2013 1st round pick for Howard and Jason Richardson ( because part of that Dwight trade would have to be to take a bad contract off of them ). Hell, I even throw in Jeff Teague since you mentioned him . . this is the 2011 Atlanta Hawks PG - Pargo G - Johnson F - Marvin PF - Ivan . . ( who could average 10 ppg - 7 rebs if he got starters minutes and played alongside Howard ) C - Howard 6th - Zaza 7th - Richardson 8th - McGrady 9th - Sloan ( because he probably makes this team without Teague here ) . . no Willie Green 10th - Radmanovic That team right there is no worse than the squad we threw out there last year. That team still makes the playoffs. And if Howard goes down with that back injury, we're now a lottery team that has a chance to pick a nice young talent. If we still got to keep Teague, this is your team PG - Teague G - Johnson F - Marvin PF - Ivan C - Howard 6th - Zaza 7th - Richardson 8th - Pargo 9th - McGrady 10th - Radmanovic And as history has now shown, we would've had the ability to trade off BOTH Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams if need be, to completely destroy the team and rebuild it from the ground, up. If Dwight leaves after one year, that's cool. You get a huge trade exception from him leaving, and use that to possibly sign a decent free agent. If not, you let his money fall off the books, and you're still better off financially than you were. ******************** The whole purpose of acquiring young talent, is to first see if they can develop into something special. If they can't, you trade them off to see if you can bring in better talent, even if it's one player. The good to great teams know this. It's crazy. We saw Philly part with their longtime borderline All-Star wing ( Iguodala ), their aging but best big man ( Brand ), and their top scorer from last year ( Williams ) . . . and they were able to replace them with Nick Young, Jason Richardson, and the big prize . . Andrew Bynum. At least the Hawks did get a decent player from the Marvin trade, although Jazz fans aren't crying at all about the Marvin for Devin swap, seeing that they really like Marvin over there. They got nothing from the JJ trade, outside of the expectation of "cap space". And we'll see what happens with Josh Smith after this season ( or maybe as soon as the All-Star break ). The reality of the NBA, is that teams who are scared to take risks, and don't make the right moves, are the teams that will constantly fail . . or never reach their potential.

That is what we are doing now though. Taking a risk. We just disagree on the type of risks worth taking. Giving away all our prime talent for one year of Dwight I just see as a way to sink the franchise for years. You have Pargo and Ivan starting. Orlando never lined up a squad with that weak of a lineup and they still couldn't get anywhere with Dwight except for one season. I think the risk we are taking now is the right one but we will see. We could be lottery this year and Josh walks but i don't think so. I think we'll be .500 until january and then be involved in a bunch of trades that will reshape this team.

[HawkItus]

While you are in your revisionist time machine you might as well stick your head out the window and experience reality. David Stern stepped over the New Orleans GM and vetoed a Paul trade that was already agreed to between the Lakers, Hornets and Rockets that sent NOLA.

Kevin Martin

Lamar Odom

Luis Scola

Goran Dragic

plus 1st and 2nd rounders

Yes, clearly Al Farouq Aminu, Eric Gordon, Kaman's contract filler (they didn't even want to play him) and a future pick was a greater talented package.

That deal was horrible and bloated with salary. Look at what happened to two of those players.

Scola- Amnestied

Odom- Barely played emotional injury

Stern was right. If he made that deal Benson doesn't buy the team.

[MaceCase]

Once again, what is YOUR SOLUTION? You haven't given one ounce of a plan of what you would've done. Sounding like Mitt Romney and Obama.

And I feel like I'm talking to Diesel. North, let me fill you in on a lil secret.....you don't matter. I don't matter. You creating a hundred ludicrous trade ideas and lineups do not have one iota of siginificance to even a rec league GM yet alone a NBA GM. I don't need to offer a solution because me offering a solution is not an actual solution. All I can say is that I am more than happy with the current direction of the team and I'm willing to see it through before I condemn it as an absolute failure based on the fact that my poor widdle favwit player is gone.

What Ferry did, was trade off a 6 time All-Star for 5 dead roaches and a future dead roach, and couldn't even get their best young player ( Marshon Brooks ) in the deal. Then he trades off Marvin for Devin Harris, a deal that we HOPE will turn out well for us, but the logjam at PG might backfire, and make Devin less effective than what he can be. And heck, we trade Marvin and hope his replacement(s) can be a better fit at SF than he was. Hopefully it will work out. But there's a reason why most fans see a GAPING hole at SF these days. And it's because of the 2 moves Ferry made.

No, here's exactly what Ferry did

"Trade your assets and try to bring in a player who could have a bigger impact on your team, than the talent that you give up."

That is precisely what he is trying to accomplish, your opinion on the matter not withstanding but at least fundamentally you can wrap your mind around the logic of it.

Ferry didn't improve this team, he simply got rid of bad contracts in hopes of improving them for the future. The Sixers, on the other hand, improved their team IMMEDIATELY, even though they let go of 3 of their top 4 players.

Yes yes, because there is a deadline on when exactly teams improve that's determined in the offseason before any games are played.

Now it's no longer "take a risk!" the argument is now "take a risk right now!" Wow, okay. Way to tap dance on that issue.

The Magic screwed themselves, by holding out hope that they could persuade Howard to stay. Him accepting the player option gave them even more hope. But the Hawks should've stepped in BEFORE that, and offered them a deal that they would've been silly to refuse, if Howard really wanted to leave Orlando.

And hell, at that time, if we wanted to use Howard OURSELVES as a trade chip, we would've had the option to do that last season

The (( bleep's )) chess, it ain't checkers. But you're over there playing UNO with Mike Gearon Jr, when he should've been chess with the rest of the league.

But nope. He and the other owners were too worried about significantly going over the Luxury Tax line, when teams who are willing to do any and everything to win a title, laugh at that L-Tax . . at least for a season or two.

So.....the Magic have had multiple deals on the table dating back to before last season (because your revisionist history only allows you to believe that teams were making offers for him during the draft) each and every one of them better than the deal that they finally end with but you think the Hawks would of wowed them and taken them off their stance.....cuz you say so. Because there weren't any rumors of both Josh and Joe being offered up for him by Sund and being turned away. Because Ferry himself said that their front office wouldn't even entertain trading him within division....but you are the chessmaster that would of found a way around all of that.

Once again, who cares what Chris Paul wanted? Did he have trade veto power? From everything I saw, Chris Paul decided to take his player option after Chauncey was signed, not refuse to go to the Clippers before Billups was signed. Chris Paul may have had his desires of what teams he wanted to play for, but he had no real power to dictate what team the Hornets traded him to.

It was up to the Hornets to get what they thought was the best possible deal for them. If another team offered them something, and were willing to take on Paul just for one year ( in hopes they could convince him to stay ), the Hornets could've traded him to that team.

You can't be this dense.....You can't possibly have missed the lessons learned from the Melodrama, Dwightmare and CP3s drama and say to yourself that the players have no power in determining where they end up.....I simply refuse to believe that you are that dense to even suggest that a player not guaranteeing a team his services beyond 1 season has nothing to do with what they are willing to offer his current team.

Uhm, I'll clarify something for you.

the Clippers did not make the trade until Paul opted into this current upcoming season......

Paul did not promise to opt into the 12-13 season until Chauncey Billups was claimed off waivers.....

He vetoed the trade because the league's owners felt that once again, the Lakers were getting a Hall of Fame caliber player and making them better, without giving up little or anything in return.

LOL . . his veto had nothing to do with what the Hornets got. That veto was all about preventing the Lakers from getting Chris Paul for basically swapping him for Pau Gasol.

Wait, so.....The Lakers were giving up both Pau and Lamar.... two big pieces of their championship core yet this was seen as them giving up nothing for something to the owners?

Or can we live in reality and say that Stern and the owners didn't want to continue to foot the bill for a team with that much future salary commitment and much rather preffered to cut costs so that the Hornets could be more easily sold instead of win games........No, North's revisionist history time machine actually has the ability to bend common sense too.

And that initial trade actually illustrates my point.

Houston's plan was to acquire BOTH of the Gasol brothers. The reason they were willing to part with all of that talent, was to entice Marc to sign with Houston to play with brother Pau. And they still made a big time run at Marc right before last season, with that MAX contract offer they gave him.

No, North, your point was clearing out the cupboard to acquire a star. Why didn't Houston not say f*** it and give up all of those assets they acquired for Dwight again? That's the tried and true North "solution" right? Gee, I'm simply shocked as to why such a fullproof plan has not been put into action and all these stars keep ending up exactly where they want to be instead of with the top bidding teams.

Gives a big question as to how much did Houston really value those parts considering that they so easily amnestied Scola and let Dragic go just a season later. To a keen mind it would seem that they want to acquire better talent at the expense of their lesser valued talent rather than the opposite suggested by the North "solution".

Who cares about the cupboard being bare, when I would have newer and possibly better items to put in the cupboard.

So you wouldn't trade Josh + Al for a healthy Dwight Howard . . . even without a future commitment from him? That's fine. But teams that think like that, will never go anywhere.

What you have is a hope that you comically believe is an actual "solution", an unfounded one at that that flies in the face of the actual past events that occured and rather simple logic yet you still speak as though it's an absolute.

The funniest thing about all of this is that the Hawks did take a tremendous risk......while allowing themselves multiple contingencies but I guess that's just not dumb or wild enough for you. You rather bet the house, bust and then be forced to live in the streets for the next decade than bet one month's payment where even if you bust you still have a foundation around you.

[MaceCase]

That deal was horrible and bloated with salary. Look at what happened to two of those players. Scola- Amnestied Odom- Barely played emotional injury Stern was right. If he made that deal Benson doesn't buy the team.

In hindsight you can say whatever you want but why don't you mention that Gordon played only 9 games and is still dealing with a bad knee yet they still matched a max deal to save face? Or that the great "unprotected Minny pick" turned out to be 11th in the draft and that it was even that high thanks to Rubio blowing out his knee? Or that Kaman (the supposed All Star center and big get) is in Dallas? You are making my point for me which North seems to think is unfathomable. That trade was vetoed because of salary implications and not due to talent. That team wanted to sell, not win and they made their trade with that specifically in mind so you can't speak as if they turned it down for better talent when it's as clear as day that they wanted better savings instead.

[HawkItus]

In hindsight you can say whatever you want but why don't you mention that Gordon played only 9 games and is still dealing with a bad knee yet they still matched a max deal to save face? Or that the great "unprotected Minny pick" turned out to be 11th in the draft and that it was even that high thanks to Rubio blowing out his knee? Or that Kaman (the supposed All Star center and big get) is in Dallas? You are making my point for me which North seems to think is unfathomable. That trade was vetoed because of salary implications and not due to talent. That team wanted to sell, not win and they made their trade with that specifically in mind so you can't speak as if they turned it down for better talent when it's as clear as day that they wanted better savings instead.

I don't see your argument. I just stated the first deal was horrible and contractualy bloated. What ever happened with Kaman and Gordon is inconsequential because they were not binding considerations in the deal. Kaman was a FA. Gordon was a FA. Money was owed to every member of the that first deal except Goran Dragic. Whatever your point it was a bad deal.